Why Did the Devil Tempt Jesus?

[Jack]

Satan and his angels have already been judged to destruction in the lake of fire.

Says the Governing Body.

Says Jesus:

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Brakelite]

Satan and his angels have already been judged to destruction in the lake of fire. No matter what Jesus did.

They are not in the lake of fire yet. If Jesus had failed in His mission, and had sinned, this world would have forever been Satan's kingdom. But at the Cross, what Adam lost, Jesus bought back at the cost of His life. Legally, this world now belongs to Jesus. At the second coming, He will take it back.

 

[Keiw]

Says the Governing Body.

Says Jesus:

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

symbolism Fred.

 

[Keiw]

They are not in the lake of fire yet. If Jesus had failed in His mission, and had sinned, this world would have forever been Satan's kingdom. But at the Cross, what Adam lost, Jesus bought back at the cost of His life. Legally, this world now belongs to Jesus. At the second coming, He will take it back.

Yes he will, and destroy all wickedness including the wicked. Gods view of wicked is not the mortal view. All mortals love family and friends, Even in Noah's day they did. It wasn't enough. Jesus compared these last days to Noah's day( Luke 17:26)--99.9% were wicked in Gods view in Noahs day. 99% today minimum. Jesus was by Gods side supporting the destruction of the wicked in Noah's day. Jesus leads Gods armies to earth( Rev 19:11) at Armageddon to destroy all the wicked. Rev 16 is clear=EVERY kingdom( govt, armies, supporters) on earth are mislead to stand in opposition to Gods king. They are now as well.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The Devil never tempted Jesus.
The Devil tryed to tempt Jesus, in fact !
So how do you Tempt Salvation it's self !

 

[Keiw]

The Devil never tempted Jesus.
The Devil tryed to tempt Jesus, in fact !
So how do you Tempt Salvation it's self !

He did tempt Jesus. He offered to Jesus every kingdom of the world to do an act of worship to him. He wanted Jesus to sin, thus sin = worship to satan. Jesus rejected the temptation.

 

[Brakelite]

Under such circumstances, you must live your life under righteousnessness of obeying the law
Jesus died for your sins as long as you obey the law.

Far out. Why is it when people read my posts, they ignore what I've written and make absurd presumptions and straw men about what I believe. It's righteousness by FAITH. Not righteousness by obedience. FAITH. It's faith that engages with divinity and creative power that causes, motivates, enables someone, anyone, to obey God's commandments. That includes the 4th. And if you aren't obeying all of God's commandments, then you need to rectify your relationship with Jesus. And if you don't think the 4th commandment is written among the 10, the fault is with your thinking, not mine. Basically, it's unbelief. You don't believe the Sabbath is a gift for you. You don't believe the words of Jesus when He says the Sabbath was made for man. You don't believe the 4th commandment to be included among the ten. Your intellectual human reasoning is blocking the truth. Now you may say, how dare you presume such things! I answer. I dare, because there is no foundation for such unbelief in scripture. Nowhere in scripture has Jesus or anyone else said, obligation to obey the 4th commandment is now void. Nowhere.
“1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: ”
2 Thessalonians 2:1-11

 

[Jack]

symbolism Fred.

"Symbolism" : a fav word of JW's when they don't like what God said!

 

[uncle silas]

Far out. Why is it when people read my posts, they ignore what I've written and make absurd presumptions and straw men about what I believe. It's righteousness by FAITH. Not righteousness by obedience. FAITH. It's faith that engages with divinity and creative power that causes, motivates, enables someone, anyone, to obey God's commandments. That includes the 4th. And if you aren't obeying all of God's commandments, then you need to rectify your relationship with Jesus. And if you don't think the 4th commandment is written among the 10, the fault is with your thinking, not mine. Basically, it's unbelief. You don't believe the Sabbath is a gift for you. You don't believe the words of Jesus when He says the Sabbath was made for man. You don't believe the 4th commandment to be included among the ten. Your intellectual human reasoning is blocking the truth. Now you may say, how dare you presume such things! I answer. I dare, because there is no foundation for such unbelief in scripture. Nowhere in scripture has Jesus or anyone else said, obligation to obey the 4th commandment is now void. Nowhere.
“1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: ”
2 Thessalonians 2:1-11

I have been to an sda church, I have chatted endlessly to sda members on the internet. It is relentlessly stressed ‘’you must obey the TC’’



It is just not possible to say we do not look to the law but away from it by faith, and trust in a righteousness of faith in Christ when that is endlessly repeated. That’s not the real world. The idea a person can look away from the law, trust in a righteousness of faith in Christ to attain to eternal life, whilst believing the TC must be obeyed to enter heaven doesn't gel I'm afraid, it is for the birds. What you're basically saying is, you are not righteous before God by obeying the TC, but you can only be in a righteous state if you do obey them.
As for it not saying in the NT the letter of what is written in the fourth commandment is now void. If you can show me one scripture from the new covenant era that states a gentile must still set aside a specific saturday sabbath, I will go to church this Saturday! In Rom ch14, Paul states the opposite, as well as addressing ALL food is clean.

You are looking to a written law, I am not, the law is within me. You use your intelectual human reasoning to decide which law needs to be obeyed, hence you avoid the levitical unclean foods. And I can only repeat, the law within will always convict of sin to a far higher degree than a written law ever will. I have witnessed this time and time again from those who insist ‘’You must obey the TC’ Much of the time they transgress those commands apparantly unaware they are even doing so. I saw two women laughing and joking as they repeatedly took the Lord’s name in vain, apparantly unaware they were transgressing the commands they insisted everyone must obey. To say I was literally shocked and stunned is not an understatement. In the world I know, believers do commit sin regretfully, but to do so as I witnessed, is not the christianity I know. And it was not just an isolated case. I think it is fair to say, I am more respectful of God's applicable law than many I have witnessed who continually stress 'you must obey the TC.

It is two different worlds I’m afraid. Concerning the fourth commandment as written. Paul tells us, if gentiles had never known of biblical law, they can show the requirements of the law(not some of the requirements) are written in their hearts, obviously by the way they act(rom2:14&15) How many people who go to church on Saturdays, would do so if they had never known of biblical law? How many would instinctively know they should set aside a set Saturday Sabbath? It literally is two different worlds here



6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:6

You either follow after the Holy Spirit or the law, it cannot be both. Those who endlessly repeat 'you must obey the TC' are following after the law. Im afraid those led of intellectual thinking, are those who keep insisting 'you must obey the TC' Only the Holy Spirit can lead us into spiritual truth. And, the Holy Spirit is the convictor of sin. So, why do those who keep stressing 'you must obey the TC' appear much of the time to transgress those commands without conviction of sin when doing so?

 

[Rxlx]

Two assumtions here Aunty
1. The devil is a fallen angel, which has yet to be proven in this forum
2. Jesus pre-existed, which is also yet to be proven in this forum

I know you wont appreciate me saying this, but its important for all readers to acknowledge that everything which is said from here down is established on two unproven assumptions, notions if you will which the Word of God provides zero clarity on.

Right, and coming from someone I know has a high degree of Biblical integrity I would think this third assumption would come with a reference!

Wow Aunty, a forth assumption - no-one in this forum has or can prove angels have free will! All the verses in Scripture suggest they only ever do the will of God in Heaven! “You mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word!” Read Psalm 103

Wow facetoface!
You sure promote Satan and his lies!
Jesus pre-existed Creation and did the creating.

Once again I'm astounded at how so many wolves lurk in Christian forums!
Angels have free will which is why 200 of them chose to follow your hero Satan and come to Earth, land on Mt Hermon, materialise handsome male bodies and try the sex we humans find so delightful.
They have now been chained inside Earth for 4,370 years and have another 1000 years to do before being released to join Satan in his Little Season as they desperately seek out the tares - wolves in Christian clothing - that pervert the truth.
Here is the evil pope siting in front of Satan and fallen angels rising.

https://assets.atlasobscura.com/media/W1siZiIsInVwbG9hZHMvcGxhY2VfaW1hZ2VzLzNlNWQ5ZTA0YTllNmUxN2Q4NV81ODQyMjc1NTg2XzU0YTNmZWY3YTNfYi5qcGciXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIsIjczMHg0ODcrNis2Il0sWyJwIiwiY29udmVydCIsIi1xdWFsaXR5IDkxIC1hdXRvLW9yaWVudCJdLFsicCIsInRodW1iIiwiNjAweD4iXV0

'Christian' by definition means someone who believes what GOD and Jesus said.

 

[uncle silas]

Far out. Why is it when people read my posts, they ignore what I've written and make absurd presumptions and straw men about what I believe. It's righteousness by FAITH. Not righteousness by obedience. FAITH. It's faith that engages with divinity and creative power that causes, motivates, enables someone, anyone, to obey God's commandments. That includes the 4th. And if you aren't obeying all of God's commandments, then you need to rectify your relationship with Jesus. And if you don't think the 4th commandment is written among the 10, the fault is with your thinking, not mine. Basically, it's unbelief. You don't believe the Sabbath is a gift for you. You don't believe the words of Jesus when He says the Sabbath was made for man. You don't believe the 4th commandment to be included among the ten. Your intellectual human reasoning is blocking the truth. Now you may say, how dare you presume such things! I answer. I dare, because there is no foundation for such unbelief in scripture. Nowhere in scripture has Jesus or anyone else said, obligation to obey the 4th commandment is now void. Nowhere.
“1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: ”
2 Thessalonians 2:1-11

Im afraid the scripture you quoted is misplaced in this instance. Let’s go directly to what is stated under the NC:



One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Rom14:5



As feast days are not mentioned in the chapter, you can hardly say that is what the verse relates to



I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean verse14



Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. ALL food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. Verse20


Will you try and twist the plain words of the bible on the subject?



In Acts ch15 the leaders of the first century church met specifically to decide which Jewish laws gentiles be asked to follow, four were decided upon, avoiding the Levitical unclean foods was not one of them. So, if you and your denomination are correct, it is an indisputable fact the leaders of the Christian church, including Peter, Paul and James gave gentile converts a licence to sin, no way around that I’m afraid. And, years later they reaffirmed that decision to Paul, no extra laws had been added(Acts21:25)

Therefore, your view of applicable law is not to be relied upon

 

[Aunty Jane]

'Christian' by definition means someone who believes what GOD and Jesus said.

James gave us some interesting counsel on that point....
“You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder”. (NASB)

So what does it mean to “believe”? It is not mere mental acknowledgment, but taken on board with the intention of “doing” something about it.....our faith has to be put into practice....every day.

As James also says.....
“But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does. If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.” (NASB)

What is the message here? Merely saying that one “believes” is not enough if our actions do not substantiate our claim. How is the “pure religion” (authentic, original Christianity) to be recognised by God and not just by other humans who themselves may be deluded?
It is in the doing of good towards others......what others? Jesus’ parable of the “Good Samaritan” tells us, who were the real “neighbors” to this man. Stripped of his clothing, he was not readily identified by the passing Jews as one of their own....so they assumed that he was a hated Samaritan and left him unaided.

Why did Jesus make the hated Samaritan the hero of his parable? To show up the Jews for the self righteous hypocrites that they were......the Samaritan did not see a Jew or Gentile in need of assistance...he saw a fellow human in need, and was able to provide help, even at his own expense.

The Samaritan did not set up a charity for all the victims of poverty or crime, but helped in a personal way when he saw a need, regardless of any personal opinion about the man’s ethnicity, circumstances or religion.
If we as Christians do the same, and offer assistance where we can, that in itself is a fine witness to the God we serve....but how well do we really know him? Jesus said we had to “know” Him, and the one he “sent”......that is the salvation issue. (John 17:3)

 

[Aunty Jane]

In Acts ch15 the leaders of the first century church met specifically to decide which Jewish laws gentiles be asked to follow, four were decided upon, avoiding the Levitical unclean foods was not one of them. So, if you and your denomination are correct, it is an indisputable fact the leaders of the Christian church, including Peter, Paul and James gave gentile converts a licence to sin, no way around that I’m afraid. And, years later they reaffirmed that decision to Paul, no extra laws had been added(Acts21:25)

Therefore, your view of applicable law is not to be relied upon

Yes, it was made clear that Gentiles were the primary focus of that mandate to “keep abstaining” from the things mentioned as “necessary” for them to observe. They were not Jewish and therefore not subject to Jewish Law, which was “taken out of the way” when Messiah gave up his life for us. (Col 2:13-14)
Not even Jewish Christians were obligated to observe the law anymore, but there was also no law against it. If they wanted to keep the Sabbath, practice circumcision, and observe some days as special, that was up to them......but they were not to impose those things on their Gentile brothers, like they wanted to do with circumcision.

When the Bible is clear about certain things....it’s not ambiguous in its statements. If the observances were necessary for all Christians, then it would have said so....no Sabbath is mandated for Christ’s disciples.
What was mentioned twice in the “necessary things” was God’s law on the consumption of blood. Some Gentiles viewed blood as something that would give them the strength of the animal from which it was taken, others did not bleed their animals and so consumed blood in the flesh they ate.....(like Israel did when God sent the quail in the wilderness, and they were punished for that)......animals or birds that were strangled, were not immediately bled as God’s law clearly stated.

It is also of interest that God’s law on forbidding the consumption of blood was given in three different eras.....first to Noah when permission was given to eat the flesh of animals after the flood....a second time in God’s law to Israel.....and a third time to Christians.....so it must be one of the important things, like avoiding idolatry, sexual immorality and false worship....all the things we still see today.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

He did tempt Jesus. He offered to Jesus every kingdom of the world to do an act of worship to him. He wanted Jesus to sin, thus sin = worship to satan. Jesus rejected the temptation.

The Devil Tryed it on Salvation it's self ! Jesus !
Jesus did not buy into it at all in fact !
So Jesus was never tempted in fact at all !

So if someone comes to you, so as to tempt you ? and you say begone ! Were you tempted ? No one is not tempted at all, just because some fool tryed it on you ! Jesus did not take the Bate in fact !

If you were a Police officer and some idiot came to you to offer a bribe ? was the officer tempted because such tryed it on ! No ! not unless the officer took the bribe ? Jesus never took the bribe dude ! so he is not guilty of accepting the bribe in fact !

 

[Keiw]

The Devil Tryed it on Salvation it's self ! Jesus !
Jesus did not buy into it at all in fact !
So Jesus was never tempted in fact at all !

So if someone comes to you, so as to tempt you ? and you say begone ! Were you tempted ? No one is not tempted at all, just because some fool tryed it on you ! Jesus did not take the Bate in fact !

If you were a Police officer and some idiot came to you to offer a bribe ? was the officer tempted because such tryed it on ! No ! not unless the officer took the bribe ? Jesus never took the bribe dude ! so he is not guilty of accepting the bribe in fact !

I didn't say Jesus was tempted. I said satan tried to tempt Jesus. The reason he tried is because Jesus was a perfect mortal, he had free will and could have chosen to be tempted.

 

[Brakelite]

I have been to an sda church, I have chatted endlessly to sda members on the internet. It is relentlessly stressed ‘’you must obey the TC’’

In the face of an extremely large and influential segment of modren Christianity which proclaims relentlessly that you don't have to obey God's commandments, that the ten commandments were nailed to the Cross, and that no Christian can overcome sin and therefore are saved in sin rather than from sin, why are you surprised? Particularly when one considers the biblical fact that the church that Jesus returns for, are commandment keepers. See Revelation 12:17, and 14:12. Does God ask us to obey impossible commands?

It is just not possible to say we do not look to the law but away from it by faith, and trust in a righteousness of faith in Christ when that is endlessly repeated. That’s not the real world. The idea a person can look away from the law, trust in a righteousness of faith in Christ to attain to eternal life, whilst believing the TC must be obeyed to enter heaven doesn't gel I'm afraid, it is for the birds

Is the character of Jesus which is imputed and imparted to His children, in harmony with His Father's commandments? If the practise of Christians isn't in harmony with the Father's commandments, can one legitimately claim to be fully converted? Are you saying that one can attain heaven while actively transgressing them? Has God reduced or lessened His standards of human behaviour? Has He abdicated His rightful authority to the whims and weaknesses of mankind?
If you are not seeing righteousness by faith and obedience as being related, I suggest you read Romans 6 again. Read the whole chapter, but pay special attention to verses 4-16. 16 is the key.

 

[uncle silas]

''Is the character of Jesus which is imputed and imparted to His children, in harmony with His Father's commandments? If the practise of Christians isn't in harmony with the Father's commandments, can one legitimately claim to be fully converted?''

Are you fully converted, or, are you just making ''pat statements'' that bear no reality to your own personal life?''
Are you just insisting of others what you do not insist of yourself?
Is it permissable for a person to water down God's commandments for themself, while insisting others must fully obey them?
Are you saved in sin or from sin?
In my experience, I have always found, those who use the phrase ''You must obey the TC'', do not practice what they preach, how about you?




Do you ever put anything before God in your life?

Do you ever build any graven images in your mind?

Do you always honour your parents without exception.

Do you ever looked at a woman with lust in your eye? (Jesus ratified the commandment)

Have you ever fibbed about anyone, or been untruthful about a person in anyway?

Have you dwelt on any impure thought?

Do you ever desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household?

Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break?

Jesus commands

If someone asked to lend from you would you gladly lend to them without ever expecting anything back?

If someone stole from you, would you offer them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?

If you have ever fasted, have you even hinted to anyone you are fasting?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may malign, harass or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Second greatest commandment

Do you always truly love all those you come into contact with in thought, word or deed, constantly, including your enemies, those who may be unkind to us, persecute or harass us?



All examples of what it takes to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment.

 

[uncle silas]

In the face of an extremely large and influential segment of modren Christianity which proclaims relentlessly that you don't have to obey God's commandments, that the ten commandments were nailed to the Cross, and that no Christian can overcome sin and therefore are saved in sin rather than from sin, why are you surprised? Particularly when one considers the biblical fact that the church that Jesus returns for, are commandment keepers. See Revelation 12:17, and 14:12. Does God ask us to obey impossible commands?

Is the character of Jesus which is imputed and imparted to His children, in harmony with His Father's commandments? If the practise of Christians isn't in harmony with the Father's commandments, can one legitimately claim to be fully converted? Are you saying that one can attain heaven while actively transgressing them? Has God reduced or lessened His standards of human behaviour? Has He abdicated His rightful authority to the whims and weaknesses of mankind?
If you are not seeing righteousness by faith and obedience as being related, I suggest you read Romans 6 again. Read the whole chapter, but pay special attention to verses 4-16. 16 is the key.

You know Paul endlessly repeated you cannot be righteous by obeying the law/you must die to the law, its part of his core message. Why did he keep repeating that?

Well the legalistic law of rite, ritual and ceremony could faultlessly be obeyed, even by people who did not know God(the pharisees) even by the worst of sinners(Phil3:6) Law you can faultlessly obey you can indeed be righteous by obeying, there are no curses in it are there(Gal3:10&11)

So, he kept making those statements because of the TC/moral law. The law came as one whole law, but it was only because of the moral you could not be righteous before it.

You and your denomination relentlessly stress you must obey the law Paul kept insisting people must die to/they have no righteousness of obeying. Its really no good you stating people have no righteousness of obeying the TC, all you people keep saying is if you don’t obey them you cannot enter heaven.

You have no understanding of the outworking of the core foundation upon which the NC stands, I’ve shown you that twice.

According to the belief of you and your denomination, the NT church leaders, including Peter, Paul and James must have given gentiles a licence to sin

You say Christians believe the TC got nailed to the cross, righteousness of obeying a law engraved in stone got nailed to the cross. Applicable law from those commands got transferred to an internal law, written in the mind and placed on the heart of believers, even your Doug Bachelor agrees with that part. What is in your mind you in your mind must know, what is in your heart, you in your heart want to follow. That’s the NC! You people still look to a written law engraved in stone. Why?

ALL of you transgress the TC, but NONE of you admit it. You just keep insisting everyone else must obey them. So, either you all only have a very shallow understanding of what obedience to those commands entails, or, you are wilfully insisting of others what you know you do not insist of yourselves. I sat in a circle in the church I went to on a Saturday for bible study before the main service. An overwhelming thought came to me. ‘’Where is the Holy Spirit?’’



You either follow after the law or the Holy Spirit, it cannot be both(Rom7:6) Those who endlessly repeat ''You must obey the TC' follow after the law. As only the Holy Spirit can lead believers into truth, that is why you are at odds with the NT church as to what is and what is not applicable law

 

[Brakelite]

Are you fully converted, or, are you just making ''pat statements'' that bear no reality to your own personal life?''
Are you just insisting of others what you do not insist of yourself?
Is it permissable for a person to water down God's commandments for themself, while insisting others must fully obey them?
Are you saved in sin or from sin?
In my experience, I have always found, those who use the phrase ''You must obey the TC'', do not practice what they preach, how about you?




Do you ever put anything before God in your life?

Do you ever build any graven images in your mind?

Do you always honour your parents without exception.

Do you ever looked at a woman with lust in your eye? (Jesus ratified the commandment)

Have you ever fibbed about anyone, or been untruthful about a person in anyway?

Have you dwelt on any impure thought?

Do you ever desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household?

Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break?

Jesus commands

If someone asked to lend from you would you gladly lend to them without ever expecting anything back?

If someone stole from you, would you offer them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?

If you have ever fasted, have you even hinted to anyone you are fasting?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may malign, harass or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Second greatest commandment

Do you always truly love all those you come into contact with in thought, word or deed, constantly, including your enemies, those who may be unkind to us, persecute or harass us?



All examples of what it takes to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment.

Why is it our conversation has turned from what is required (If ye love Me, keep My commandments), and what is possible (with God all things are possible), to my personal performance? Is that a tactic by which to avoid answering my questions?

You know Paul endlessly repeated you cannot be righteous by obeying the law/you must die to the law, its part of his core message. Why did he keep repeating that?

Well the legalistic law of rite, ritual and ceremony could faultlessly be obeyed, even by people who did not know God(the pharisees) even by the worst of sinners(Phil3:6) Law you can faultlessly obey you can indeed be righteous by obeying, there are no curses in it are there(Gal3:10&11)

So, he kept making those statements because of the TC/moral law. The law came as one whole law, but it was only because of the moral you could not be righteous before it.

You and your denomination relentlessly stress you must obey the law Paul kept insisting people must die to/they have no righteousness of obeying. Its really no good you stating people have no righteousness of obeying the TC, all you people keep saying is if you don’t obey them you cannot enter heaven.

You have no understanding of the outworking of the core foundation upon which the NC stands, I’ve shown you that twice.

According to the belief of you and your denomination, the NT church leaders, including Peter, Paul and James must have given gentiles a licence to sin

You say Christians believe the TC got nailed to the cross, righteousness of obeying a law engraved in stone got nailed to the cross. Applicable law from those commands got transferred to an internal law, written in the mind and placed on the heart of believers, even your Doug Bachelor agrees with that part. What is in your mind you in your mind must know, what is in your heart, you in your heart want to follow. That’s the NC! You people still look to a written law engraved in stone. Why?

ALL of you transgress the TC, but NONE of you admit it. You just keep insisting everyone else must obey them. So, either you all only have a very shallow understanding of what obedience to those commands entails, or, you are wilfully insisting of others what you know you do not insist of yourselves. I sat in a circle in the church I went to on a Saturday for bible study before the main service. An overwhelming thought came to me. ‘’Where is the Holy Spirit?’’



You either follow after the law or the Holy Spirit, it cannot be both(Rom7:6) Those who endlessly repeat ''You must obey the TC' follow after the law. As only the Holy Spirit can lead believers into truth, that is why you are at odds with the NT church as to what is and what is not applicable law

This entire conversation started by your objection to Adventists upholding the 4th commandment. You have no issue with Adventists upholding the validity of the 6th commandment, or the 7th, validity I am sure you also agree with. I also think you will agree with the means by which such is accomplished. Only by being born again, and the biblical mandate, "the just shall live by faith", and in the process becoming new creatures. So what of the 4th commandment? That's what you cannot adequately answer.

 

[uncle silas]

Why is it our conversation has turned from what is required (If ye love Me, keep My commandments), and what is possible (with God all things are possible), to my personal performance? Is that a tactic by which to avoid answering my questions?

Well firstly, you have been avoiding responding to anything I write, apart from cherry picking an odd sentance in my posts.
Secondly, if you are insisting of others what you do not insist of yourself with ''pat sentances'' that is a most valid point to raise.
Is it correct for you to ask the question can one claim to legitimately be fully converted if they are not obeying God's laws when you yourself transgress them? Its quite legitimate to ask you if you believe you are fully converted