Why does the believer continue to believe?

[Charlie24]

I asked that question to someone recently, who answered, "because they want to".

Hebrews 3:14 KJV
14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

We look at verses like this, and many explain them as saying, you remain in Christ so long as you remain believing. Is that what the passage says? No, it doesn't. It is saying you've become a permanent partaker of Christ, and that this is shown by the fact that you hold your confidence to the end. It's there in the grammar.

Whether or not you think that someone could "lose their salvation",

Here's my question.

The Christian who remains believing, lifelong, why do they do that? Why would a believer NOT abandon their faith? Why is it that a Christian remains believing?

My answer is that as we've received Christ, we now have the faith of Christ, and He keeps us safe. That having been reborn in His pattern, we will always trust Him, even if only in the inner man.

What other answers could there be?

Does the one continue in faith because they are a better, stronger person? God has chosen the weak.

Does the one continue in faith because they have obtained a better salvation? We have obtained like precious faith.

What other answers can you think of?

1 Peter 1:3-5 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Much love!

I think I will go with what the apostle Paul said so many times in his letters. Let's see, I will go with this one today.

Col. 1:21-23
"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

So, we see one can be moved away from their faith, but what does the Apostle say about how this happens?

Col. 2:4-8
"And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

So, here we see as in so many of the great Apostles letters, that one can be deceived by false teachers to depart from their faith in Christ.

If you deny this is possible, you've got some serious problems with our Lord!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The focus on sin and on yourself is all wrong.

No, the focus is on BELIEVING. Present tense. God's household is composed of believing people. Not unbelieving people who used to believe or never believed.

This used to be the most elementary point of Christianity.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Some received the word immediately with joy, but when the persecution came, they just fell away. There was no root. Yes. If you don't believe, you won't be born again, you won't have new life, and you won't be saved.

Got it!

Don't tell me, tell @Behold, lol! ↓↓↓

However, if you lose faith, fall away, etc........and you were born again before you did, you are just as saved as the Blood Of Jesus has the power to cleanse you of all sin, including those, and all others..
See, sin was dealt with by God on the Cross, and you denying it, wont change it for me, or for any real believer.
Once you are born again, you are always born again, and how you think or believe, later, has no effect on the NEW BIRTH.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But the thing is . . . you don't stop with that truth, and you use this to shift being saved, or, staying saved, to yourself, off of Christ. And this is error. God never let's you go, pure and simple. It's not up to you.

We need to get off the osas arguments and just do what the Bible says to do.......keep believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You go on and on about, You're still saved if you don't believe? The born again believe. You can't not believe if you are born again.

Again, I say, don't tell me, tell @Behold .....↓↓↓↓

However, if you lose faith, fall away, etc........and you were born again before you did, you are just as saved as the Blood Of Jesus has the power to cleanse you of all sin, including those, and all others..
See, sin was dealt with by God on the Cross, and you denying it, wont change it for me, or for any real believer.
Once you are born again, you are always born again, and how you think or believe, later, has no effect on the NEW BIRTH.

 

[mailmandan]

I asked that question to someone recently, who answered, "because they want to".

Hebrews 3:14 KJV
14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

We look at verses like this, and many explain them as saying, you remain in Christ so long as you remain believing. Is that what the passage says? No, it doesn't. It is saying you've become a permanent partaker of Christ, and that this is shown by the fact that you hold your confidence to the end...

Amen! Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if you hold fast your confidence to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are partakers of Christ" (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast to the end." Holding fast is proof of being a partaker of Christ.

 

[JohnDB]

Parable of the soils...
All I got on the matter.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

My counsel to all is to make sure you know Him, and aren't just trying to follow a feel good path of keeping some rules

The problem isn't about following a 'feel good path' of keeping rules. The problem is the church is walking a misguided 'feel good path' of rule keeping—going to church, giving to the church, praying, reading your Bible, getting involved in church activities. Those no more show you know Him than Sabbath keeping and circumcision and tithing showed that a Jew knows God. This is what shows you know Him.....

We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6​

This is not talking about our human, worldly love—you don't offend me, you're attractive, and you're talented, and you're pleasing to me, therefore, I love you. John is talking about God's kind of love. The kind that loves it's enemies and loves those that hurt us and are displeasing and unattractive and not beneficial to us. When you walk that path—the path that few find that leads to eternal life—that is when you are walking the 'feel good' path of obedience to God and know that you know God and He knows you. You'll resist this, but I guarantee you this is the absolute truth. 95% of the church doesn't know this truth. It's the narrow road of obedience that Jesus said few find and few travel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Amen! Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if you hold fast your confidence to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are partakers of Christ" (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast to the end." Holding fast is proof of being a partaker of Christ.

There are so many in the church today that think that they are a partaker of Christ even if they fall back into unbelief. It's really quite ridiculous.

 

[mailmandan]

There are so many in the church today that think that they are a partaker of Christ even if they fall back into unbelief. It's really quite ridiculous.

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers mixed together in many churches who all believe they are genuine Christians. Falling back into unbelief demonstrates a defect in their belief to begin with/never firmly rooted and established from the start.

A shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away does not represent saving belief in Christ.

 

[Brakelite]

Sin is what separates. Always has. Always will. Despite the cross, sin still separates. Why? Because we don't go to the cross. We minimize the evil of sin... We compromise... We claim we cannot sin because we are Christians. We don't believe we have sinned because we have removed the power of the law that was given to point sin out. We no longer teach holiness. Sin is no longer evil it once was. Even though it cost the Son of the Almighty His life.

 

[marks]

Appreciate the Scriptures that you shared on this topic.
I actually wrote a book on this topic. To continue to believe is to practice Philippians 3:10 over the course of a lifetime. I like the Amplified version:

"10 [For my determined purpose is] that I may know Him [that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly], and that I may in that same way come to know the power outflowing from His resurrection [which it exerts over believers], and that I may so share His sufferings as to be continually transformed [in spirit into His likeness even] to His death, [in the hope]"

As we grow in our relationship with Christ, or to use the vernacular I used in my book to "see God more clearly and the world through His eyes", we can't help but continue on in our faith. However, if we choose to remove ourselves from regular fellowship with Him and His Church and instead immerse ourselves in the world, then it is natural that our faith will fade.

And what happens should we find our faith to be fading? What would it mean to remove ourselves from fellowship with God? And how would God respond?

This is such a great passage!

Philippians 3:9-12 KJV
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12) Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Found in him having the righteousness of God by faith.

I love the KJV translation here, myself, "being made conformable unto his death". This brings out the passive voice in being conformed to His death.

Do you see in Paul's words here his reaching towards the life promised in our incorruptible bodies, but not then, instead, now? We think of the fully formed life of Christ within us as only in the age to come, and I expect that is true, yet still, Paul reaches out towards it.

Being made conformable to His death. Let this mind be in you. He knows he's not already perfect, but he nonetheless yearns to take hold of that for which Christ took hold of him.

Paul writes, that I may know Him . . . being make conformable to His death, I think this is the heart to knowing Jesus, to share in the power of His resurrection, to have communion with Him in His suffering -as we too will suffer - and to attain to the resurrection of the dead.

The more we can put to death our members upon the earth - put off the old man - the more we come to understand how dead we are to sin and flesh, and how alive we are to God, the more we can put away all earthly pursuits, all fleshy desires, and become servants like Christ, obedient in all things, obedient to death. Not just obedient.

We love God and not the world. The world has nothing for me. My desire is to be found with His righteousness. My desire is to attain to resurrection life.

Sorry to just kind of ramble here! I find whenever I look at this passage, I tend to just get lost into it!

Much love!

 

[marks]

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

This is the thing that happens.

When you attack someone's faith, trying to turn them towards "keeping their salvation", however it is you want to put it, making the retaining of salvation from God to be our problem, and particularly when you go round and round in arguments over what words mean, it spoils many people.

This shipwrecks their faith so they spend the rest of their lives, or however long, fearful, doubtful, and not fruitful, and that's on the one who did it to them.

If you spoil someone through all your specious arguments, you are responsible for that.

Here the Word. And believe all of it. IF your interpretations of passages conflict with other plainly stated passages, those interpretations are wrong.

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

If your "faith" ends, can you correctly argue that your live was Christ's life lived in you?

The whole point of this thread is addressing this issue. Do you have an answer to this quesion? Because I do, and it's straight from the Bible.

Why does the believer continue to have their confidence all the way to the end?

Because they are good at it?

Seriously. Why?

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, the focus is on BELIEVING. Present tense. God's household is composed of believing people. Not unbelieving people who used to believe or never believed.

This used to be the most elementary point of Christianity.

Your focus in on yourself. Your 'faith'.

Focus on Jesus. Live your faith. Don't make faith the goal, the prize. It's Jesus.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Don't tell me, tell

I'm telling you.

Stop deflecting.

 

[marks]

Amen! Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if you hold fast your confidence to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are partakers of Christ" (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast to the end." Holding fast is proof of being a partaker of Christ.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people show no interest in knowing what these passages truly say.

My word for the day . . . specious . . . "specious arguments", arguments which sound good on the surface, but lack validity. Like people often make about this passage.

I notice that @Ferris Bueller 'liked' your post, yet your post refutes the one thing he goes on and on about, casting doubt on the permanence of rebirth, and God's ability to save.

If you didn't last, you weren't real. This is so clear in the Bible. It's plainly stated, and interwoven throughout the text.

They look at this verse and proclaim, You stop partaking if you stop holding your confidence. Specious!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Sin is what separates. Always has. Always will. Despite the cross, sin still separates. Why? Because we don't go to the cross. We minimize the evil of sin... We compromise... We claim we cannot sin because we are Christians. We don't believe we have sinned because we have removed the power of the law that was given to point sin out. We no longer teach holiness. Sin is no longer evil it once was. Even though it cost the Son of the Almighty His life.

For myself . . .

I teach that we live holy lives as we trust in Jesus, that He has in fact separated us forever from our sin.

I heard a good quote from John MacArthur, he was quoting from a pastor who was preaching is final time before exile during the reformation. He observed that there is more evil in the least sin we commit than in the worst calamity that comes to us. I quite agree with the man!

But there is no power over sin aside from dying in Jesus' death, and if we die in Jesus' death, we too are dead to sin. Believing that allows us to live that way. If we don't believe it, we won't. But we'll try to force our lives into the best fit we can manage.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You'll resist this, but I guarantee you this is the absolute truth.

I'll resist what exactly?

 

[marks]

The problem isn't about following a 'feel good path' of keeping rules.

Actually, if you are rating you salvation by your opinion of yourself based upon your perceptions of yourself (men don't really judge like God judges), And should you find you approve of our behavior and thoughts, and so consider yourself saved,

That is . . . "Gee, look at me, I'm being obedient, so my faith is valid, and I know I'm saved", then this is EXACTLY what you are doing, following a feel good path of keeping rules.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Your focus in on yourself. Your 'faith'.

Focus on Jesus. Live your faith. Don't make faith the goal, the prize. It's Jesus.

No, the focus is on believing in Christ. Stop separating 'believing' from what is being believed in. That's where you guys are going wrong about all this. Believing MEANS believing in Christ. And believing in Christ means trusting that he does exactly what God said he will do for you.