Why I could personally never chose to be Catholic

[BreadOfLife]

The Ten Commandments are part of a covenanted law (Ex 34:28, Deut4:13, Deut 10:4)
That's very serious because the covenanted law is enforced by a curse fornon compliance. (Deut 27:26, Gal 3:10)
Now; according to Deut 4:2, Deut 5:29-30, Deut 27:26, and Jas 2:10; thecovenanted law can't be cherry-picked; viz: it's all or nothing at all
This means religions teaching that compliance with the Ten Commandments is essential to obtain heaven, have placed their followers under the
jurisdiction of the covenanted law and of course subject to the law's covenanted curse for non compliance.
The exhilarating news is: Christ's believing followers are not covenanted with God to comply with the Ten Commandments; nor is He obligated by
covenant to whack them with a curse for non compliance.
The tragic news is: every Roman Catholic who sincerely believes they have to comply with the Ten Commandments in order to obtain heaven are in
very grave danger of missing out. Note the grammatical tense of the verbiage in the passages below.
"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out." (Deut 27:26)
"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the
book of the law." (Gal 3:10)
The grammatical tense of "cursed is" is present tense rather than future, indicating that the very moment a Roman Catholic breaks one of the
Ten Commandments; they are instantly slammed with a curse-- no delay, and no waiting period.

Sigh - more of your asinine anti-Catholic mythology . . .

 

[brakelite]

First of all - the Catholic Church condemns worship of anybody or anything other than God Himself - so there's your first lie.

Do you not worship that lump of bread in your avator pix?

Secondly, as to your second remark in RED - nobody was ever executed for simply "disagreeing" with the Church. It was in teaching and promoting heresy.

Everyone who was executed were in disagreement with your church. And the so-called heresy in many cases was for translating the Bible into the language of the people...thus a disagreement with church policy...not a heresy against God's truth.

This kind of abject ignorance of history is comical, if not so tragic. There wouldn't have been anybody left to fight wars, build nations or discover new lands. Hundreds of millions, indeed.
What a joke . . .

Let us take some of those wars one at a time shall we? Shall we start with the war against the Hussites, the Waldenses, or the Albigenses? You choose. Explain to me how Roman Catholic influence and particpation was nothing we ought to be concerned about.

As to your ridiculous charge of "necromancy" - do you even know what necromancy means??
It is the practice of seeking oracles from the dead. We simply ask them to pray FOR us because they are members of the Body of Christ. Who gave YOU the Authority to kick them out of the Body??

Absolutely dead right. (Pun intended). Receiving instructions or messages from dead people. Necromancy. Yes, I know what it means, and I used that word deliberately. I am not a fool. Mary is dead. Your church has been receiving "messages" from her for hundreds of years. But they are not from Mary. Mary is dead. They are from a demon. I've read many of those messages. Particularly the ones from Medjugorje. They are blasphemous and deceptive to the nth degree.
The reason necromancy is forbidden is because the dead are just that...dead! They cannot reply to anyone...they have no more business with anyone living, they can neither speak nor hear. When you call upon a dead person, you are inviting demons to impersonate them. And they are good at that. I know. I've been there.

PS - Those "even more unpleasant habits of priests" that you mentioned are going on FAR more often in Protestant churches . . .

Yes, I agree. But they haven't been doing it for over 1500 years have they.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Do you not worship that lump of bread in your avator pix?

Nope - I don’t worship bread – any more than I would worship a tortilla.

I worship Jesus, who is present - body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist.

Everyone

who was executed were in disagreement with your church. And the so-called heresy in many cases was for translating the Bible into the language of the people...thus a disagreement with church policy...not a heresy against God's truth.
Let us take some of those wars one at a time shall we? Shall we start with the war against the Hussites, the Waldenses, or the Albigenses? You choose. Explain to me how Roman Catholic influence and particpation was nothing we ought to be concerned about.

Have you ever studied history?
I didn’t think so.

You see, my historically-ignorant friend – heresy was a crime against the STATE in the Middle ages because it cause dissention among the people and divisions within kingdoms.

EVERYTBODY who was executed for heresy was executed by the state governments to which they belonged.

Absolutely dead right. (Pun intended). Receiving instructions or messages from dead people. Necromancy. Yes, I know what it means, and I used that word deliberately. I am not a fool. Mary is dead. Your church has been receiving "messages" from her for hundreds of years. But they are not from Mary. Mary is dead. They are from a demon. I've read many of those messages. Particularly the ones from Medjugorje. They are blasphemous and deceptive to the nth degree.
The reason necromancy is forbidden is because the dead are just that...dead! They cannot reply to anyone...they have no more business with anyone living, they can neither speak nor hear. When you call upon a dead person, you are inviting demons to impersonate them. And they are good at that. I know. I've been there.

You’re more ignorant than I gave you credit for.

Necromancy is the SEEKING of oracles from the dead.
“SEEKING” is the operative word here, Einstein.

Let me ask you a question: Was Jesus practicing “necromancy” at the Transfiguration when He was speaking to Moses and Elijah?? Was Moses spiritually “Dead”??

YOU call people “dead” who are in the presence of Almighty God in Heaven – but they are MORE alive they YOU are because they have been given ETERNAL Life.

You don’t have a clue about the promises of Christ for His faithful . . .

Yes, I agree. But they haven't been doing it for over 1500 years have they.

And neither has the Church.

Can you provide documented proof for your claim??
I didn’t think so . . .

The fact that you agree with me about all of the sexual perversion within the Protestant sects yet excuse it because it’s only been going on for 500 years or less is pathetic.

 

[Grams]

How can the priest make the communion so holy, that you are not allowed to touch it ?

 

[BreadOfLife]

How can the priest make the communion so holy, that you are not allowed to touch it ?

WHO said I'm not allowed to touch it??
Not only does he pout it in my hand - I put the Eucharist in my mouth.

 

[Grams]

I was Catholic! And when I went to church we were not allowed to touch the communion.. In fact I remember watching a movie
years ago were it was dropped from a [ in -movie] priest into a lady's dress and it went like the priest could not touch her in that spot and
she could not touch the communion so there was a long pause......... and I do not remember what happened it was long.......... ago...

Do you still have to kneel down, before you enter the pew, seat ! And during lent we had to do the stations of the cross...
I was Catholic till my 50's.... some time in the........1980's

 

[BreadOfLife]

I was Catholic! And when I went to church we were not allowed to touch the communion.. In fact I remember watching a movie
years ago were it was dropped from a [ in -movie] priest into a lady's dress and it went like the priest could not touch her in that spot and
she could not touch the communion so there was a long pause......... and I do not remember what happened it was long.......... ago...

Do you still have to kneel down, before you enter the pew, seat ! And during lent we had to do the stations of the cross...
I was Catholic till my 50's.... some time in the........1980's

I don't know what movie you saw - but it wasn't produced by the Catholic Church.
That whole scenario is silly.

As for not touching the Eucharist with your hands - that was a discipline - NOT a doctrinal matter.
Disciplines can and do change. Not eating meat on Fridays was a discipline. It changed to Fridays during Lent.

As for genuflecting - it's not required before sitting down and never was.
Genuflecting is reserved for the Eucharist, where is it required IF the person is able. If not - then a profound bow can be substituted.

 

[rstrats]

BreadOfLife,
re: "Not eating meat on Fridays was a discipline."

Was commiting a mortal sin considered a discipline matter or a doctrinal matter?

 

[Grams]

I don't know what movie you saw - but it wasn't produced by the Catholic Church.
That whole scenario is silly.
Of Course not !! But some one must have had that happen years before that movie came out with was in the 1940's.........!!!

As for not touching the Eucharist with your hands - that was a discipline - NOT a doctrinal matter.

The Catholic Church I went to you could not touch it , you had to swallow it , you could not chew it......!!

Disciplines can and do change. Not eating meat on Fridays was a discipline. It changed to Fridays during Lent.
At our church we were not able to eat meat on Friday......... My Mother never gave us meat !!!!!!!!

As for genuflecting - it's not required before sitting down and never was.
At our church it was a rule......... It happened.......

Genuflecting is reserved for the Eucharist, where is it required IF the person is able. If not - then a profound bow can be substituted.

I went to Transfiguration Church and School .......
And I did all of this...... Back then you never went against the nuns........... NEVER!!!!!!!

You have no idea what the nuns would do to us if we did not do as we were told.......!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

I went to Transfiguration Church and School .......
And I did all of this...... Back then you never went against the nuns........... NEVER!!!!!!!

You have no idea what the nuns would do to us if we did not do as we were told.......!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too was taught by some pretty tough nuns.
Unfortunately, they weren't always correct in their catechesis.

If you want the answers - go right to the source - the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLife,
re: "Not eating meat on Fridays was a discipline."

Was commiting a mortal sin considered a discipline matter or a doctrinal matter?

Not eating meat was the discipline.
Disobedience is what was sinful.

 

[aspen]

I went to Transfiguration Church and School .......
And I did all of this...... Back then you never went against the nuns........... NEVER!!!!!!!

You have no idea what the nuns would do to us if we did not do as we were told.......!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would hope that discipline is taught everywhere.

Seems ironic that so many adults complain about the lack of doscipline being taught to children nowadays, until nuns are menitioned

 

[Grams]

We were never told to read the bible, only had prayer books and rosary's...... Or to have one !

And we had some things to answer from the black board............ and from what the nuns asked us.....

they gave us some kind of magazine type book..... not much to it !

 

[aspen]

We were never told to read the bible, only had prayer books and rosary's...... Or to have one !

And we had some things to answer from the black board............ and from what the nuns asked us.....

they gave us some kind of magazine type book..... not much to it !

If you pray the Rosary properly, you are meditating on scripture focused on the birth, ministry, and death and resurrection of Jesus - along with the redemption of humanity

 

[Grams]

Our FATHER & Hail Mary...........!

But why did they make us go to mass 5 days a week, and listen to Latin ? Which no one understood !?????

 

[aspen]

Our FATHER & Hail Mary...........!

But why did they make us go to mass 5 days a week, and listen to Latin ? Which no one understood !?????

Homilies (sermons) were always in the vernacular. The rest of the Mass was in Latin - if you were unable to memorize the latin, which was repeated every week, you could have just grabbed the missal on the back of the pew in front of you and read the english translation

 

[BreadOfLife]

We were never told to read the bible, only had prayer books and rosary's...... Or to have one !
And we had some things to answer from the black board............ and from what the nuns asked us.....
they gave us some kind of magazine type book..... not much to it !

You were never told NOT to read the Bible either.
Sooooo, why didn't you?

 

[Grams]

Because I was never told to have one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not believe any of my class mates had one....... and try to follow the priest with our prayerbooks ?????

Since he was speaking in Latin and we were reading English , how could we keep up ?????????? were we slower or faster then the Latin......?

I know they have changed , since my girl friend is still going and is saved.... but back then I was not. And she went to another

church later in years..........so a different C. C. or maybe they finally caught up !

 

[epostle1]

Do you not worship that lump of bread in your avator pix?

Everyone who was executed were in disagreement with your church. And the so-called heresy in many cases was for translating the Bible into the language of the people...thus a disagreement with church policy...not a heresy against God's truth.

Let us take some of those wars one at a time shall we? Shall we start with the war against the Hussites, the Waldenses, or the Albigenses? You choose. Explain to me how Roman Catholic influence and particpation was nothing we ought to be concerned about.
Absolutely dead right. (Pun intended). Receiving instructions or messages from dead people. Necromancy. Yes, I know what it means, and I used that word deliberately. I am not a fool. Mary is dead. Your church has been receiving "messages" from her for hundreds of years. But they are not from Mary. Mary is dead. They are from a demon. I've read many of those messages. Particularly the ones from Medjugorje. They are blasphemous and deceptive to the nth degree.
The reason necromancy is forbidden is because the dead are just that...dead! They cannot reply to anyone...they have no more business with anyone living, they can neither speak nor hear. When you call upon a dead person, you are inviting demons to impersonate them. And they are good at that. I know. I've been there.

Yes, I agree. But they haven't been doing it for over 1500 years have they.

Still pounding the same revisionist drum, eh brakelight? Leave it to you to attack unapproved apparitions. We ignore Medjugorje but you are out of touch with Catholic realities to know Medjugorje has been rejected. I don't see you attacking Protestant so-called "Bible prophecy" that floods the internet. I don't think you are very smart. Calling intercession "necromancy" is the epitome of prot ignorance. If Jesus' mother is dead, then so is her offspring.
Think hard about what that implies, if you can.
You must be a Baptist secessionist to be waving heretics like the Hussites, the Waldenses, or the Albigenses as if they were great heros. The Hussites wanted communion under both species, even though it was not practical, and they went to war with anyone who got in there way. At this time in history anybody you didn't like was a heretic. Hussite Wars - Wikipedia
The book by the Baptist historian McGoldrick that demolishes the above statements is titled Baptist Successionism: A Crucial Question in Baptist History (The American Theological Library Association and The Scarecrow Press, 1994). McGoldrick examines many groups claimed as "early Baptists" (or early Evangelicals who are "baptistic") such as the Montanists, Novatians, Paulicians, Bogomils, Albigenses, Waldenses and other groups and individuals. None of these groups were in fact "early Evangelicals" but were either explicitly Catholic in doctrine or grossly heretical (such as the later Albigenses who denied the Incarnation). Baptists originate in the early 17th century in Holland and England. So why do these groups claim to be early evangelicals? They all had a spirit of rebellion.

"Although no reputable Church historians have ever affirmed the belief that Baptists can trace their lineage through medieval and ancient sects ultimately to the New Testament, that point of view enjoys a large following nevertheless. It appears that scholars aware of this claim have deemed it unworthy of their attention, which may account for the persistence and popularity of Baptist successionism as a doctrine as well as an interpretation of church history. Aside from occasional articles and booklets that reject this teaching, no one has published a refutation in a systematic, documented format. The present work is an effort to supply this need so that Baptists may have a thorough analysis of successionism, together with a reliable account of their origins as a Protestant religious body." (McGoldrick, preface page iv)

"It is the purpose of this book to show that, although free church groups in ancient and medieval times sometimes promoted doctrines and practices agreeable to modern Baptists, when judged by standards now acknowledged as baptistic, not one of them merits recognition as a Baptist church. Baptists arose in the seventeenth century in Holland and England. They are Protestants, heirs of the Reformers." (ibid, page 2, emphasis mine)

The following is adapted from McGoldrick's chapter on the Waldenses of the 12th and 13th centuries which examines their origins and founder Peter Waldo, their explicit Catholic doctrines and beliefs, a short account of their history, and where they are today (hint: they did later become a Protestant sect, but were never "baptistic" in belief).

Based on your previous posts, I would say you are a Baptist Successionist, or Landmark Baptist.
When Baptists attempt to discover the origins of their tradition they are faced with a historical dilemma. The search for Baptists roots hits a dead end in the sixteenth century. Most acknowledge that Baptist tradition is a tributary flowing out of the Protestant Reformation, but others attempt to discover a line of historical continuity, of doctrine and practice, back to Jesus and even John the Baptist. These Baptists are commonly referred to “Baptist Successionists”. Such a historical continuity is a factual impossibility.
Such a historical continuity is a factual impossibility though the proponents continue aggressively promoting their theories. First, we will summarize the popular theory as espoused in the popular booklet The Trail of Blood and secondly, we will analyze their position historically. It is helpful to remember, according to W. Morgan Patterson, associate professor of church history at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, that the “Baptist historians”-those who are proponents of this view-”have been preachers and pastors first of all, and historians second” (Baptist Successionism, [Valley Forge, PA: Judson Press, 1980), 5.
http://www.catholic-convert.com/wp-content/uploads/Documents/TrailOfBlood.pdf

 

[epostle1]

Because I was never told to have one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not believe any of my class mates had one....... and try to follow the priest with our prayerbooks ?????

Vatican II ended in 1965, which means you are relying on memories of memories. Prayer books are simply condensed Bibles used for daily use. You have had 47 years to unlearn everything. Protestants use the Bible differently, for private study while Catholics use the Bible in public liturgy. Nobody is wrong, but creating false dichotomies is typically Protestant.

Since he was speaking in Latin and we were reading English , how could we keep up ?????????? were we slower or faster then the Latin......?

No you are being ridiculous. They never read 2 different languages at the same time.

I know they have changed , since my girl friend is still going and is saved.... but back then I was not. And she went to anotherchurch later in years..........so a different C. C. or maybe they finally caught up !

Our core doctrines can never change. That's something you will have to put up with every time you flip to a different church.