Why I could personally never chose to be Catholic

[Grams]

Eph.2;
8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is one way only !!!!!!!
Belief in GOD and JESUS ............... to understand what GOD and JESUS did for us !
So we can go to heaven.............. TO know and believe........ and to have a good place in heaven , to try to do our best on
this earth......

"Belief"??
That's NOT what the Bible says . . .

James 2:19 says that even the DEMONS believe in God and tremble - but they aren't saved.
"Believing" in Jesus means that you must be OBEDIENT to Him and follow His commands.

What does “believing” in our Lord Jesus entail?

- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)

- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)

- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)

- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)

- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)

- We must suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Eph.2;
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast

Belief + Works = Faith.
And here is what having "Faith" in Jesus means . . .

- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)

- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)

- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)

- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)

- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)

- We must suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

 

[Grams]

Not in my KJB ............. !!!!!

 

[Grams]

breadoflife .........said.............

"Belief"??
That's NOT what the Bible says . . .

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Acts 16:
31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
gal.3:22 and there are more of course...

 

[brakelite]

It's not GOD'S fault that many will need purification before entering Heaven - any more than it is a parent's fault that their kid needs a hot bath.

If you do not have the faith to believe that God has the power NOW to cleanse you of all unrighteousness according to His many promises, then you do not have the faith to give you entrance into the kingdom of God. Either you believe God's promises, or you don/t. If you don't, you shall die in the wilderness.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If you do not have the faith to believe that God has the power NOW to cleanse you of all unrighteousness according to His many promises, then you do not have the faith to give you entrance into the kingdom of God. Either you believe God's promises, or you don/t. If you don't, you shall die in the wilderness.

This is a rather immature view of God's power.
I have the faith that He can grow a new head on a decapitated person - even though that is probably NOT His will.

God doesn't purify people at the end of their lives because He CAN'T do it during their lifetime.
MANY Christians will get into Heaven without the need of being purified.

 

[BreadOfLife]

breadoflife .........said.............
"Belief"??
That's NOT what the Bible says . . .
Acts 16:31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
gal.3:22 and there are more of course...

And the Bible ALSO says:
Matt. 7:21
NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the who DOES the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

YOUR problem is that you don't understand context . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not in my KJB ............. !!!!!

The King James Version doesn't have any of the verses I listed??
Are you SURE about that??

 

[brakelite]

If you do not have the faith to believe that God has the power NOW to cleanse you of all unrighteousness according to His many promises, then you do not have the faith to give you entrance into the kingdom of God. Either you believe God's promises, or you don/t. If you don't, you shall die in the wilderness.

This is a rather immature view of God's power.
I have the faith that He can grow a new head on a decapitated person - even though that is probably NOT His will.

God doesn't purify people at the end of their lives because He CAN'T do it during their lifetime.
MANY Christians will get into Heaven without the need of being purified.

What on earth is all this double speak? What exactly are you saying? Have you been trained to write like this? Who are you, really? You twist and squirm like a sardine on a pin.
1. Explain please how you come to the conclusion that to believe in God's promises is immature.
2. Explain what I presume is an analogy your reference to a headless corpse has to do with being cleansed from sin as per scriptures that promise such as per 1 John 1:9
3. Explain "God doesn't purify people at the end of their lives because He CAN'T do it during their lifetime. " Why purify then at the end when He can do it during their lifetime, and why in your opinion can't He did during their lifetime?
4. Explain how sinners will get into heaven in spite of assurances such as Revelation 22:14,15.

But I do agree with you that it isn't God's fault that people need purification.We need to have that sinful nature destroyed...thus it is placed upon Christ and it dies in Him...we are then, through faith and by the grace of God, born again with a new nature that may still sin, but can be overcome. To not have the faith, nor the desire to overcome, is to be as a heathen. No-one will get into heaven unless he overcomes in this life. But it seems strange to me that you claim that OSAS isn't Biblical (and I agree) but then out of the other side of your mouth comes the 'second chance' theory of purgatory.
I must admit however that debating with a Catholic, whether layman or Jesuit, is an exercise in futility. Both sides are using entirely different foundations for their basis in faith. Your arguments for being a Catholic are precise and correct. My arguments for being a Christian are precise and correct. The only reason they differ is that you are Catholic, and I'm Christian. Some Catholics are also Christian, because they do have the faith that God has the power to forgive, and cleanse from all unrighteousness. They have been born again. They use scripture as the foundation of their faith and practice. They likely are ignorant of the true nature of the core doctrines such as purgatory, because no-one informs them of those issues...they are now aware of their impact on faith. They may not be mature enough, or perhaps strong enough to break from the traditions that bind them. Yet they believe in scripture. It appears that you don't...

 

[epostle1]

What on earth is all this double speak? What exactly are you saying? Have you been trained to write like this? Who are you, really? You twist and squirm like a sardine on a pin.
1. Explain please how you come to the conclusion that to believe in God's promises is immature.
2. Explain what I presume is an analogy your reference to a headless corpse has to do with being cleansed from sin as per scriptures that promise such as per 1 John 1:9
3. Explain "God doesn't purify people at the end of their lives because He CAN'T do it during their lifetime. " Why purify then at the end when He can do it during their lifetime, and why in your opinion can't He did during their lifetime?
4. Explain how sinners will get into heaven in spite of assurances such as Revelation 22:14,15.

But I do agree with you that it isn't God's fault that people need purification.We need to have that sinful nature destroyed...thus it is placed upon Christ and it dies in Him...we are then, through faith and by the grace of God, born again with a new nature that may still sin, but can be overcome. To not have the faith, nor the desire to overcome, is to be as a heathen. No-one will get into heaven unless he overcomes in this life. But it seems strange to me that you claim that OSAS isn't Biblical (and I agree) but then out of the other side of your mouth comes the 'second chance' theory of purgatory.

The "second chance theory" is for ignorant anti-Catholics who can't be bothered to find out the truth of the matter. Purgatory is not a second chance. How many times must purgatory be explained to you, brakelite? Can't get past your prejudice?

I must admit however that debating with a Catholic, whether layman or Jesuit, is an exercise in futility. Both sides are using entirely different foundations for their basis in faith. Your arguments for being a Catholic are precise and correct. My arguments for being a Christian are precise and correct. The only reason they differ is that you are Catholic, and I'm Christian. Some Catholics are also Christian, because they do have the faith that God has the power to forgive, and cleanse from all unrighteousness. They have been born again. They use scripture as the foundation of their faith and practice. They likely are ignorant of the true nature of the core doctrines such as purgatory, because no-one informs them of those issues...they are now aware of their impact on faith. They may not be mature enough, or perhaps strong enough to break from the traditions that bind them. Yet they believe in scripture. It appears that you don't...

I know of no binding traditions, how about you enlighten us.

 

[epostle1]

The "second chance theory" is for ignorant anti-Catholics who can't be bothered to find out the truth of the matter. Purgatory is not a second chance. How many times must purgatory be explained to you, brakelite? Can't get past your prejudice? I know of no binding traditions, how about you enlighten us.

St. Mother Teresa and St. Francis of Assisi are not Christians??? Really??? What were they then?? Pagans??? You judge all of Catholicism based on what you see in her weakest members, then you compare that with your most on fire members. Then you will tell me you are being fair. This is why I don't reply line by line because your posts are so incredibly stupid.

 

[epostle1]

What on earth is all this double speak? What exactly are you saying? Have you been trained to write like this? Who are you, really? You twist and squirm like a sardine on a pin.
1. Explain please how you come to the conclusion that to believe in God's promises is immature.

That's not BoL conclusion, it's yours.

2. Explain what I presume is an analogy your reference to a headless corpse has to do with being cleansed from sin as per scriptures that promise such as per 1 John 1:9

You can't read. BoL is not talking about decapitation as cleansing, he's talking about what God can or cannot do.

3. Explain "God doesn't purify people at the end of their lives because He CAN'T do it during their lifetime. " Why purify then at the end when He can do it during their lifetime, and why in your opinion can't He did during their lifetime?

If a person's life isn't over yet, how are they supposed to endure to the end? You are not making any sense.

4. Explain how sinners will get into heaven in spite of assurances such as Revelation 22:14,15.

Those who have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb are predestined to glory, which they cannot lose. Those predestined to grace can lose it. It's possible to go directly to heaven after death, but most of us don't die in a state of perfect holiness. It doesn't mean we are not saved.

But I do agree with you that it isn't God's fault that people need purification.We need to have that sinful nature destroyed...thus it is placed upon Christ and it dies in Him...we are then, through faith and by the grace of God, born again with a new nature that may still sin, but can be overcome. To not have the faith, nor the desire to overcome, is to be as a heathen. No-one will get into heaven unless he overcomes in this life. But it seems strange to me that you claim that OSAS isn't Biblical (and I agree) but then out of the other side of your mouth comes the 'second chance' theory of purgatory.

The "second chance theory" is for ignorant anti-Catholics who can't be bothered to find out the truth of the matter. Purgatory is not a second chance. How many times must purgatory be explained to you, brakelite? Can't get it past your prejudice?

I must admit however that debating with a Catholic, whether layman or Jesuit, is an exercise in futility. Both sides are using entirely different foundations for their basis in faith. Your arguments for being a Catholic are precise and correct. My arguments for being a Christian are precise and correct. The only reason they differ is that you are Catholic, and I'm Christian. Some Catholics are also Christian, because they do have the faith that God has the power to forgive, and cleanse from all unrighteousness. They have been born again. They use scripture as the foundation of their faith and practice. They likely are ignorant of the true nature of the core doctrines such as purgatory, because no-one informs them of those issues...they are now aware of their impact on faith. They may not be mature enough, or perhaps strong enough to break from the traditions that bind them. Yet they believe in scripture. It appears that you don't...

I would like to know what "traditions" you think I am bound to, and I would like to know what you think a tradition is. Since I've defined them 1000 times on this board you should know what a tradition is by now. It seems you still don't get it.

 

[APAK]

That's not BoL conclusion, it's yours.
You can't read. BoL is not talking about decapitation as cleansing, he's talking about what God can or cannot do.
If a person's life isn't over yet, how are they supposed to endure to the end? You are not making any sense.
Those who have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb are predestined to glory, which they cannot lose. Those predestined to grace can lose it. It's possible to go directly to heaven after death, but most of us don't die in a state of perfect holiness. It doesn't mean we are not saved.

The "second chance theory" is for ignorant anti-Catholics who can't be bothered to find out the truth of the matter. Purgatory is not a second chance. How many times must purgatory be explained to you, brakelite? Can't get it past your prejudice?

I would like to know what "traditions" you think I am bound to, and I would like to know what you think a tradition is. Since I've defined them 1000 times on this board you should know what a tradition is by now. It seems you still don't get it.

I have questions epostle1, if I may be so bold…

Since you have defined the term ‘tradition(s)’ of your religion 1000x in posts on this site, can you list them for all of us to review?
If you already did this, I most probably was too new here to read them. There must be at least 40 significant ones that Jesus and the apostles would be proud to own as traditions of God?

In the Catholic Catechism of the church (1031), what do the words ‘grace’ and ‘friendship’ mean to you in this text?
(CCC 1031) which is afforded to “all who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” so that they might “achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven” (CCC 1030).

Of course, it is directly related to the concept of purgatory as you well know.

If purgatory is a tradition of God given to your religion by the apostles, or those that immediately followed them, why did it take between 1000-1300 years later to make it an official dogma of your religion?

The following are the three typical scripture passages used by your religion to show scripture supports the concept of purgatory. The last verse is from a book of the Apocrypha that I consider inspired by man; and this scripture nullifies the atonement work of Jesus, that he alone could accomplish. If anyone man could atone for someone’s spiritual ‘imperfections’ and sins, then there is no need to believe in the works of Jesus, the Christ.

(1Co 3:11) For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
(1Co 3:12) Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
(1Co 3:13) each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
(1Co 3:14) If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
(1Co 3:15) If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. (ALL ESV)

To a non-practitioner of your religion this verse means in context, that a ‘saved’ person can lose blessings if they live their lives that is considered worthless to God. – it will be revealed by God’s standard not our own. They get into heaven, although most probably considered the least in the Kingdom.

(Rev 21:27) But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.(ESV)

To a non-practitioner of your religion this verse means that all those saved in Jesus are considered perfect and considered the image of God in heaven. It does not mean that we must do more works to become spiritually perfect. If that were the case no one would be written in the Book of Life. Works by the carnal mind on earth cannot make anyone perfect. Works in an intermediate state, between earth and heaven cannot make any one perfect. Where is this place described in scripture anyway? I have not found it yet.

(2Ma 12:43) And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection.
(2Ma 12:44) (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)
(2Ma 12:45) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.
(2Ma 12:46) It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins. (ALL DRB)

These uninspired words speak of paying money as an acceptable offering and praying for the sins of dead people – to make them perfect in the eyes of God.

Does Jesus’ death mean anything if you can pray for dead people and their sins, because they never accepted Christ in their earthly life?

Bless you,

APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

What on earth is all this double speak? What exactly are you saying? Have you been trained to write like this? Who are you, really? You twist and squirm like a sardine on a pin.
1. Explain please how you come to the conclusion that to believe in God's promises is immature.
2. Explain what I presume is an analogy your reference to a headless corpse has to do with being cleansed from sin as per scriptures that promise such as per 1 John 1:9
3. Explain "God doesn't purify people at the end of their lives because He CAN'T do it during their lifetime. " Why purify then at the end when He can do it during their lifetime, and why in your opinion can't He did during their lifetime?
4. Explain how sinners will get into heaven in spite of assurances such as Revelation 22:14,15.

But I do agree with you that it isn't God's fault that people need purification.We need to have that sinful nature destroyed...thus it is placed upon Christ and it dies in Him...we are then, through faith and by the grace of God, born again with a new nature that may still sin, but can be overcome. To not have the faith, nor the desire to overcome, is to be as a heathen. No-one will get into heaven unless he overcomes in this life. But it seems strange to me that you claim that OSAS isn't Biblical (and I agree) but then out of the other side of your mouth comes the 'second chance' theory of purgatory.
I must admit however that debating with a Catholic, whether layman or Jesuit, is an exercise in futility. Both sides are using entirely different foundations for their basis in faith. Your arguments for being a Catholic are precise and correct. My arguments for being a Christian are precise and correct. The only reason they differ is that you are Catholic, and I'm Christian. Some Catholics are also Christian, because they do have the faith that God has the power to forgive, and cleanse from all unrighteousness. They have been born again. They use scripture as the foundation of their faith and practice. They likely are ignorant of the true nature of the core doctrines such as purgatory, because no-one informs them of those issues...they are now aware of their impact on faith. They may not be mature enough, or perhaps strong enough to break from the traditions that bind them. Yet they believe in scripture. It appears that you don't...

First of all - WHO said Purgatory was a "second chance"?? Certainly not ME and not the Catholic Church.
Purgatory is simply the final purification of the elect. Those who are purified WILL go to Heaven. There's no "second chance" for anybody.

As to your questions . . .
1. You have an immature view of God's power because He isn't doing it YOUR way.
A little advice: YOU don't get to tell god how to purify and save people so don't try . . .

2. I told you that God can do ANYTHING He wills - ANY WAY He chooses. YOU seem to think that He can ONLY do things your way. BIG mistake . . .

3. I've never met a perfectly pure person - have YOU??
I didn't think so . . .

4. The Scriptures are ALL about sinners getting to Heaven.
Don't forget the fact that YOU are a sinner . . .

Finally - to your last moronic point - Catholic IS Christian. In fact - we were the very FIRST Christians.
The difference between you and me is that YOU are presumably a Protestant Christian, whereas, I am a Catholic Christian.

 

[mjrhealth]

Purgatory is simply the final purification of the elect.

Oh so said, we are made righteous by Christ, and it is by that we enter into heaven, it is He who makes us clean, not a place.

Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Rom_5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Jn_2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

only one way into heaven.

 

[epostle1]

Reasons why I could personally never chose to be Catholic

Everyone has a different divine authority that structures and determines the Gospel.

My divine authority is determined and structured by the Bible alone and in its entirety, is the word of God.

While the Catholics divine authority is structured by the Bible + meaning, they have a wider authority than that of the Bible alone. They follow the traditions of men, the infallibility of their pope and church, the sayings of Fatima, elevating Mary as a co-redemptrix, water baptism that saves,...etc., all of which are a contradiction to Revelation 22:18 which reads:

“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.”

For you to misrepresent the Catholic Church with such malice is a grave sin. But don't worry, God takes into account your invincible ignorance. You cannot name a single "tradition of men" that we are obligated to follow. That false charge alone is a tradition of anti-Catholics.

The plagues written herein are the judgments of God, and the book can only mean the Bible. In other words, Revelation 22:18 is a very ominous warning for those who add to the true Gospel.

Again, name what has been added to the Gospel. You can't because you think you know how the Gospel is proclaimed at every Catholic Mass. You don't know, you just blindly persecute.

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other Gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed Galatians 1:9.

A multitude of conflicting denominations can't preach the same gospel. This is where your Protestantism fails, but you won't admit it. Instead, you have to pick on the Catholic Church that has never changed any doctrines, and you do so blindly.

 

[epostle1]

-
Roman Catholicism is a difficult religion. In order for its followers to obtain a
passing grade they have to consistently comply with everything in the
Catechism, plus all of Rome's traditions, and every Bull, every Holy Day of
Obligation, every Encyclical plus all of the Sermon On The Mount and
everything taught in the epistles of Paul, Peter, James, Jude, and John;
along with every ruling of Rome's Church Councils including Nicaea 1 & 2,
Constantinople 1 & 2 & 3, Ephesus, Chalcedon, Lateran 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5,
Lyons 1 & 2, Vienne, Constance, Florence, Trent, and Vaticans 1 & 2.

On top of all that; should a Catholic leave this life in a state of mortal sin,
they go straight to Hell with no stopover in a purgatory (CCC 1035). All their
years as a Catholic, no matter how many nor how faithful, will count for naught.
/

Still making false statements about Catholic practices, eh Webers_Home? You remind me of the man who breaks up with his girlfriend, and then spends the rest of his life bad mouthing her.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh so said, we are made righteous by Christ, and it is by that we enter into heaven, it is He who makes us clean, not a place.

Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Rom_5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Jn_2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

only one way into heaven.

WHO said Purgatory was a "place"??
Final purification of the elect is more of a state than a place - it it occurs BECAUSE of what Christ did for us.

If you're going to attempt to debate a topic - be sure that you have educated yourself about it first . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

WHO said Purgatory was a "place"??
Final purification of the elect is more of a state than a place - it it occurs BECAUSE of what Christ did for us.

If you're going to attempt to debate a topic - be sure that you have educated yourself about it first . . .

before you debate the things of God BOL, get to know Him. We are made righteous because of Christ, but than of course if you are not in Him, than that you will not obtain, and you must find a back door.

Joh_10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Have a blessed day.