Why Jesus Wants Us To Make A Stand During The Coming Tribulation

[GRACE ambassador]

True "Grace Through faith" christians have been standing for The LORD And Saviour, Jesus Christ,
For almost 2000 years now. With that came this, and it still is today, Under Grace:

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have Peace with God through our​

LORD Jesus Christ: By Whom also we have access by faith into This Grace​

Wherein we stand, and rejoice in Hope Of The Glory Of God.​

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And not only so, but we glory [ NOW! = GRACE Word for infirmities ] in tribulations ​

also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and​

experience, Hope: And Hope maketh not ashamed; because The Love of God ​

Is Shed Abroad in our hearts By the Holy Ghost Which is given unto us.​

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ Died for the ungodly.​

For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man​

some would even dare to die. God commendeth His LOVE toward us, in that, while​

we were yet sinners, Christ Died for us.​

​

Much more then, being Now Justified By His BLOOD, we Shall Be Saved from wrath​

Through Him." (Romans 5:1-9)​

Thus, when this Grace Dispensation Ends, we leave, and God's prophetic
program continues and begins with Judgment on Israel, and the UNbelieving nations.

So, No, we true believers are Not going to be on earth, but Heaven, when
God's Great GRACE Departure! occurs!!

All true saints are Encouraged to 'rejoice' with us in this Blessed Hope!
By Grace, Peace, Mercy, And LOVE, From God!!! ♫ ↑

Amen.

 

[Davy]

For the false Pre-tribulation Rapture theorists that come here... there is NO Bible Scripture that declares Jesus coming to gather His Church PRIOR to the "great tribulation" that He warned His faithful saints about.

Instead, there is multiple Bible Scriptures where Jesus and His Apostles proclaim Jesus' future coming to gather His Church AFTER... the tribulation. And I included in my original post Bible reference of what Lord Jesus Himself said to that FACT.

But those who lie that would rather serve men and their false traditions, like the false pre-trib rapture theory, DO NOT CARE what Lord Jesus said there in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, which is FACT that He comes to gather His saints AFTER... the tribulation. They love their traditions and the false men behind their false tradition MORE than they love Lord Jesus, otherwise they would listen to Lord Jesus in HIS WORD instead and the Truth as written.

For that reason, God is sending those deceived and who lie against His Word a "strong delusion", and they will believe the LIE, just as they have chosen to believe men's lie of a false pre-trib rapture doctrine that was NEVER an idea of the early Christian Church, as even admitted by some of their own pre-trib rapture scholars.

 

[Davy]

I posted the following earlier and not one pre-tribber responded.

Well I would say there is! The reason you guys don't accept the words of Jesus is because in Mathew 24 he clearly states that the gathering happens at the end of or AFTER the Tribulation - at his PAROUSIA!

In Mathew 24:3, and 27 The Parousia is mentioned. That has to do with the end of the age/aion world - not just Jews. You guys may not know that there are three different words for world and three different words for end in Mt. 24. Makes me wonder why.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming/Parousia, and of the end of the world?

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming/Parousia of the Son of man be.

Then Jesus says in v.29, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...v.30, And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven...V. 31, And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Elect...
Well that destroys the belief that this chapter is for Jews! The word elect is also the word chosen. Not once in the New Testament does the word indicate Jews!

1. picked out, chosen
   1. chosen by God,
      1. to obtain salvation through Christ
         1. Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
      2. the Messiah is called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
      3. choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians

Look at 1Thes. 4 and the key words in it...

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming/PAROUSIA of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

What is the Parousia?
The future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up/Harpazo together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

NOT a Jewish trumpet!

The Harpazo is the rapture or removal of believers.

So, put it all together. The passage is saying that the rapture/harpazo happen at the Parousia which is when Jesus returns to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God. That can ONLY happen at the end of tribulation when Jesus returns to set up his kingdom.

Sad thing is Pre-trib had to change the timing and meaning of the last trump to a Jewish trumpet. The had to change the timing of the Parousia to the beginning of tribulation. They had to change the timing and meaning of the Day of the LORD. All fabricated to fit their pre-trib harpazo It really is an abomination.

Yes, I'm aware of all that.

They also try to change the meaning of Apostle Paul's phrase "temple of God" that he warned the coming "man of sin" (Antichrist) will sit in at Jerusalem and proclaim himself as God. They try to claim that "temple of God" means Christ's Church.

Christ's Church according to Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2, is built upon a foundation of Christ's Apostles and the prophets, with Christ Jesus as its Cornerstone. So how can anyone corrupt that? It is impossible. If an apostate falls away from Christ, they are simply "cut off" from Christ's Church.

Because of that fact of Bible Scripture, it is impossible for that 2 Thess.2 "temple of God" to apply to Christ's Church. Same applies to the "temple of God" of Revelation 11 which Apostle John was told to take a "reed like unto a rod", and measure, including those who worship therein, which is about unbelieving Jews during the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period with their new 3rd temple to be built at the end of this present world.

 

[Reddsta]

Nothing false about the pretrib rapture.

Except for the fact that it stands as opposition to God's original intention...

The Lord is NOT going to put the bride that has made herself ready into the great tribulation. He is speaking to the Jews in those chapters.

"She" is not made ready before any thing called "tribulation"..."she" the Body of Christ, the sons of God are "made ready" in their victory over darkness. Just as "her husband" was made ready in His victory over darkness. Just as Israel was "made ready" for its exodus in its victory over darkness.

Your lack of understanding is impressive.

This type of hubris only comes from one source...its judgment is set.

 

[Gottservant]

The thing to remember is that the False Church, will be the last to admit the Rapture has occurred. It will admit it, but long after men become convinced it is irrelevant. So the belief (that the Rapture saves) as far as the World is concerned, will be moot.

This is the believer's playground, a world that doesn't see or know the Holy Spirit, within.

 

[The Light]

Except for the fact that it stands as opposition to God's original intention...

Here is God's original intention.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

God saw the fathers of the Jews as the first fruits of the first harvest, but they went to Baalpeor. Therefore the Gentiles will be the first harvestAnd that harvest will occur before the seals are opened as the 7 seals are the 70th week of Daniel and the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.

The fullness of the Gentiles must come in before part of Israel can see.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

If you understood any of the this, you would realize why there are 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes. Chances are slim.

"She" is not made ready before any thing called "tribulation"..."she" the Body of Christ, the sons of God are "made ready" in their victory over darkness. Just as "her husband" was made ready in His victory over darkness. Just as Israel was "made ready" for its exodus in its victory over darkness.

Oh boy. I know the root of this.

This type of hubris only comes from one source...its judgment is set.

As the Word says, there are five wise virgins and five foolish. The foolish have no lamp oil and cannot see.

 

[The Light]

The thing to remember is that the False Church, will be the last to admit the Rapture has occurred. It will admit it, but long after men become convinced it is irrelevant. So the belief (that the Rapture saves) as far as the World is concerned, will be moot.

This is the believer's playground, a world that doesn't see or know the Holy Spirit, within.

When the first harvest occurs, pretrib rapture, part of Israel will have their eyes opened. They will realize what has happened.

Jeremiah 8
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

 

[Davy]

Most do not understand the difference between a 'rapture', and a 'pre-trib rapture'. They think both are the same idea.

When talking about the day of Christ's coming to gather His Church, His Word declares that will happen AFTER the tribulation He warned about (per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27). That is what brethren in Christ need to know. Anything else is a doctrine of the devil. It's that simple.

 

[Davy]

The reason why it is so... important in the last days to be aware of the false rapture which the Pre-trib Rapture Theory school preaches, is because of Lord Jesus' and His Apostle's warnings about the coming of a false one first that is to work supernatural miracles, and cause the whole world to believe he is God (except Christ's elect won't be deceived).

That is what Apostle Paul's falling away (Greek apostasia) idea in 2 Thessalonians 2 is about. It is linked with the coming "man of sin" that will sit in a new Jewish temple built in Jerusalem for the end, and proclaim himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshipped. He will work the supernatural great signs and wonders that Lord Jesus warned about in Matthew 24 as the pseudo-Christ, or 'in place of Christ'.

So really, the REAL IMPORTANT SUBJECTS Christ's Church ought to be talking about for the believing Christian in these last days in prep for the coming "great tribulation", is the great deception that is coming by that false-Messiah once he is setup as king of the world for the very end, and his working of the SUPERNATURAL to deceive the WHOLE WORLD into believing he is GOD. That is what the Revelation 13:4-8 verses declare that the "dragon" (Satan) does at the end.

Is it possible, those in the Church that are deceived will believe that coming false-Messiah will actually be our Lord Jesus Christ?

YES!

That is why Lord Jesus called that coming false one a pseudochristos (a false Christ) in Matthew 24:24. Lord Jesus even warned that false-Christ will work great signs and wonders that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, would deceive even Christ's very elect! PREACH on that... instead of ESCAPE, because Jesus showed by that His faithful Church will... SEE that false working by that false-Christ.

When that coming false-Christ appears in Jerusalem for the coming "great tribulation", and sets himself up as GOD over all peoples and nations for 42 months like Revelation 13:4-8 said, that is when ALL... peoples alive on earth will be FORCED to choose that false-Christ as their GOD, or REFUSE to believe he is GOD. This is the PIVOT point of whether the believer will be saved or not when Lord Jesus does return to end... those tribulation events!

"Oh, I think I'll just wait and see how things pan out", some might be thinking. You will not be able to just wait and see. When that coming false-Christ places the abomination idol in a new Jewish temple in Jerusalem (per Matthew 24:15; Rev.13), and proclaims himself as God, he will demand that ALL peoples bow to him as The Christ.


That means only TWO CHOICES in that future tribulation time:

1. ACCEPTING that coming pseudo-Christ who comes first as the REAL Jesus Christ.

or...

2. Staying FAITHFUL as a "chaste virgin" for Lord Jesus Christ, waiting on HIS coming to end that tribulation, and gather His 'faithful' Church and begin His "thousand years" reign on this earth with them, as written.

SORRY... NO FENCE RIDING ON THIS ISSUE. Either choose to make a stand for Lord Jesus in that coming tribulation time, or be rejected by Lord Jesus when He comes because you didn't remain faithful waiting on Him to come to end the great tribulation.

 

[n2thelight]

I'm not going to paste the Bible quote, but Apostle Paul said for us to put on the whole Armor of God, so as to be able to make a STAND in the "evil day" (Ephesians 6).

New Testament FACT:
God's Word has Christ's Faithful saints making a STAND for Him throughout the coming "great tribulation". Jesus showed His coming to gather His saints is not until after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31 & Mark 13:24-27). Even in Revelation 20 with pointing to those of the "first resurrection", those include saints that refused the mark of the beast. So how can those refuse the mark of the beast if they're raptured before the tribulation? Because Jesus showed His coming to gather His saints ain't until after the tribulation, that means we all are going through the "great tribulation" whether we like it or not.

Why then, would Lord Jesus want us to make that 'stand' for Him during the "great tribulation" when the coming pseudo-Christ is setup as God in Jerusalem?

Man's false Pre-trib Rapture doctrines bombard the deceived with the idea of escaping the tribulation, and flying away instead of making a stand for Jesus against the beast. The last thing they want their deceived congregations to hear is that Jesus wants us to make a 'stand' during the great tribulation for Him.

But that's really it. We are to make a STAND for Lord Jesus during the coming great trib.

Early in God's Word, He revealed what this present world is about. God said He put enmity between the devil's seed, and the Seed of the Woman (Genesis 3:15). That reveals a battle between God's servants and Satan's servants during this present world time.

Christ's servants were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world, according to Apostle Paul in Ephesians 1. And what happened in that old world before Adam and Eve? In that 1st world is when God created Satan as an anointed cherub that covereth (Ezekiel 28). And Satan was perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him (Ezekiel 28). Satan rebelled in wanting to be GOD in that old world. So God ordained this 2nd world earth age for His Son to be born of flesh woman and die on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who believe on Him and The Father. Christ's elect were ordained into the service of The Gospel, to make a STAND for Him.

Per Luke 4 when the devil was tempting Lord Jesus, the devil took Jesus upon a high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world. The devil then told Jesus that he would give those kingdoms to Him only if Jesus would follow him. And the devil said he could give those kingdoms to whomever, because they were given to him (by The Father). That is pointing to this present world time actually having been given to Satan to be the primary controller. This is why no matter what organization for good is started during this present world, Satan's host will soon creep into it and try to corrupt it. This is especially so with the religious organizations of men. But Christ's servants are here in order to make a STAND against those kinds of workings by the devil.

In Luke 10, Lord Jesus said He gave us all power over the enemy, and we are to command that power over the devil and his servants, casting them out in the Name of Jesus Christ, and praying.

It's just a fact, this present world is simply not our real home. Our real home is with The Father and The Son. And They are preparing to return here, back to this earth where His Kingdom once was upon this ancient earth.

In Mark 13, Matthew 24, and Luke 21, Lord Jesus showed that some of His servants are going to be delivered up at the end to give a TESTIMONY for Him against the beast. That duty especially is why Christ's Church must go through the coming "great tribulation", in order to give that TESTIMONY for Christ. So if you want to know WHY the devil doesn't want you to understand that, and instead wants you to just have thoughts of escaping the coming great trib, then that's why, because that future TESTIMONY by Christ's faithful saints DURING the "great tribulation" is one of the events that is going to begin Satan's one-world government beast kingdom to crumble. Lord Jesus' appearing in the clouds to end the trib is what will finish it.

This is why God's "two witnesses" in Revelation 11, within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period, will be giving a TESTIMONY against the beast for the time of "great tribulation", i.e., the latter 1260 days of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (7 years). Because it mentions "two candlesticks" along with the two witnesses, and per the last verse of Rev.1 Jesus said the 7 candlesticks are the 7 Churches, that means two Churches will make that STAND with the two witnesses during the tribulation. It ought to be all 7 Churches making that STAND for Jesus, but as we can see today, there are many deceived congregations not being prepared to make that STAND for Lord Jesus Christ during the "great tribulation" time.

Jesus said in Matthew 10:28 to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul, but to fear HIM Who can destroy both our body and soul in the future "lake of fire". So we are not to fear flesh death. And yet in Luke 21, Lord Jesus said when delivered up to give that TESTIMONY, don't fear, because not a hair on your head shall perish.

So each believer on Jesus Christ has a choice to make for the coming time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world.

1. Be prepared with the whole Armor of God on to make a spiritual STAND against the beast with giving a TESTIMONY by The Holy Spirit for Lord Jesus.

or...

2. Seek to run like a coward when there will be no escape but flee like a dead carcase where the fowls are that eat on the dead (Luke 17:37 about the 1st one's TAKEN).

We overcome by the Blood of the Lamb No rapture PERIOD!!

 

[Reddsta]

Here is God's original intention.

Hosea 9

Really...so His original intention is not in Genesis?

Oh boy. I know the root of this.

Not likely...if you believe what you post.

 

[The Light]

Is it possible, those in the Church that are deceived will believe that coming false-Messiah will actually be our Lord Jesus Christ?

Yes that is possible. The foolish virgins that do not make themselves ready, will be hanging around while the wise are standing before the Son of man.

The foolish that on earth when the door is shut may not know that the Lord comes as lightning from the east to the west.

Matthew 24
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Also the foolish virgins on earth when the door is shut, may not know that there is a beast of the sea, and a beast of the earth. They also may not know that the beast of the earth has TWO horns. They might need to know what a horn is.

One of the beasts of the earth will be given the stephanos crown meaning that he will be head of the UN. This will be be the rider on the white horse. So don't follow him.

Jesus warns of false Christs in Matthew 24 and then tells the Jews again.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

This is a warning about the beast of the sea, that was and is not, and will come again. This warning is about Nimrod who had the deadly wound of the sword and will live. He is of the seven and will be the eighth.

So Jesus will come as lightning from the east to the west. Those finding it necessary to go through the 70th week of Daniel should know this.

 

[Davy]

We overcome by the Blood of the Lamb No rapture PERIOD!!

Well, per 1 Thess.4:17, the saints still alive on earth will be "caught up" to Jesus at His returning to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem (Zech.14).

But there definitely will not be a pre-tribulational rapture.

 

[The Light]

Well, per 1 Thess.4:17, the saints still alive on earth will be "caught up" to Jesus at His returning to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem (Zech.14).

Ah, no. That seems to be according to Davy. There is nothing in these verses about the Mount of Olives or Zech 14
1 Thes 4
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But there definitely will not be a pre-tribulational rapture.

Yeah. And don't forget Trump will definitely never, ever be president. You can take that to the bank.

 

[Davy]

Ah, no. That seems to be according to Davy. There is nothing in these verses about the Mount of Olives or Zech 14

Your CREDIBILITY just went in the dumpster by what you said above, because you CANNOT TRY TO SEPARATE the 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 events from the day that Jesus returns on the "day of the Lord"!

2 Thess 2:1-3
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
KJV

That "day of Christ" phrase is actually "day of the Lord" in the Greek. Even John Darby who first began preaching the false pre-trib rapture theory in 1830's Great Britain translated in his Darby Bible that "day of Christ" as "day of the Lord".


What 1 Thessalonians 4 actually says...

1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

The RESURRECTION MUST HAPPEN FIRST for the asleep saints before Jesus will bring them, Paul says there above!!! That means no rapture until the RESURRECTION ON THE LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD!!!


Same "day of the Lord" that is linked to the last day of this world when the resurrection will happen, and the return of Lord Jesus to gather His saints happens...

Zech 14:1-7
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
KJV

 

[The Light]

Your CREDIBILITY just went in the dumpster by what you said above, because you CANNOT TRY TO SEPARATE the 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 events from the day that Jesus returns on the "day of the Lord"!

You are walking in the dark and telling me what you see.

2 Thess 2:1-3
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
KJV

These verses do not describe the rapture of the Church. This is the gathering from heaven and earth that takes place BEFORE the wrath of God at the 6th seal.

That "day of Christ" phrase is actually "day of the Lord" in the Greek.

I know.

Even John Darby who first began preaching the false pre-trib rapture theory in 1830's Great Britain translated in his Darby Bible that "day of Christ" as "day of the Lord".

Even John Darby?...........LOL. He was obviously brilliant as there was no nation of Israel for 1800 years or so and he said that there would be a nation of Israel again. He of course was correct. That's faith in God and the truth.

From, what, 400 AD or so they started saying that the Church had replaced Israel. What a load and lack of faith that God would keep His Word.

What 1 Thessalonians 4 actually says...

1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

The RESURRECTION MUST HAPPEN FIRST for the asleep saints before Jesus will bring them, Paul says there above!!! That means no rapture until the RESURRECTION ON THE LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD!!!

Are Old Testament saints dead in Christ.

The dead in Christ rise first.

You are confusing this because of the term FIRST RESERRECTION. It is the resurrection of the righteous. The second resurrection is for the unrighteous.

Same "day of the Lord" that is linked to the last day of this world when the resurrection will happen, and the return of Lord Jesus to gather His saints happens...

Zech 14:1-7
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
KJV

The day of the Lord has nothing whatsoever to do with the rapture of the Church. You confuse the gathering from heaven and earth that takes place after the man of sin is revealed and just prior to the Day of the Lord with the rapture of the Church.

The fig tree has two harvests.

 

[Davy]

You are walking in the dark and telling me what you see.

That is a stupid blind statement out of the blue, lacks any common sense at all.

These verses do not describe the rapture of the Church. This is the gathering from heaven and earth that takes place BEFORE the wrath of God at the 6th seal.

Apostle Paul's subject at the very start of 2 Thess.2 is about the coming of Christ and our gathering to Him. Then Paul was VERY specific that will not happen until 2 events happen first, the great falling away, and the revealing of the "man of sin" (Antichrist), which Paul also shows there that Jesus will destroy with the "brightness of His coming".

So don't try to tell me that 2 Thessalonians 2 chapter does not point to the time of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church. To say it doesn't is to LIE against Christ and that Scripture by His servant Apostle Paul.

I know.

Even John Darby?...........LOL. He was obviously brilliant as there was no nation of Israel for 1800 years or so and he said that there would be a nation of Israel again. He of course was correct. That's faith in God and the truth.

Even the blind can find an acorn every once in a while. And he was not the first to predict the restoration of the nation of Israel. God did, through His Old Testament prophets. All one needed to do was simply read it.

I consider E.W. Bullinger as a great Bible scholar, but even he succumbed to the false Pre-trib Rapture theory because it was a popular doctrine in his day of 1880's Britain. That doesn't mean he didn't do some excellent scholarly work on other Bible topics. So you're not really proving anything by trying to claim Darby was some sort of prophet of God.

Fact of the matter still is, that "day of Christ" is actually "day of the Lord", which is the last day of this world.

The dead in Christ rise first.

Your previous questions are irrelevant.

Yes, per Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the dead in Christ rise first! That is pointing DIRECTLY to the day of the resurrection at the END of this world.

Even in the previous 1 Thess.4:15 verse, Paul says those of us still alive shall not precede (KJV "prevent") them which are asleep...

1 Thess 4:15-16
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

So you should try following what the actual 1 Thessalonians 4 Scripture says as written.

You are confusing this because of the term FIRST RESERRECTION. It is the resurrection of the righteous. The second resurrection is for the unrighteous.

No, I'm not confusing anything. It is YOU that is confused because of your heeding men's false doctrines.

'THE' resurrection is about the day of Christ's future coming on the last day of this world. That resurrection has NOT happened yet. And I never said the word "first". That is your vain attempt to try and move the topic to Rev.20.

No, the topic here in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 by Apostle Paul is that those alive on earth shall NOT precede the asleep saints that have already died in Christ. And... those asleep saints MUST rise first, which means be resurrected!

Now if you need to know where my Lord Jesus showed the coming time of resurrection is, you might take a peek at the John 5:28-29 Scripture where He showed BOTH... the "resurrection of life" and the "resurrection of damnation" happen on the same day of His future coming.

The day of the Lord has nothing whatsoever to do with the rapture of the Church. You confuse the gathering from heaven and earth that takes place after the man of sin is revealed and just prior to the Day of the Lord with the rapture of the Church.

The fig tree has two harvests.

The "day of the Lord" has EVERYTHING... to do with the day of Christ's future coming and GATHERING of His Church. And there is only ONE HARVEST by Christ Jesus at the end of this world, as written.

Now I'm well aware that your false pre-trib rapture doctors lie and try to say the "day of the Lord" happens PRIOR to the time of "great tribulation". But that's all they're doing is telling a big fat LIE against Christ and the Scriptures. And their idea on that is so... stupid, because Apostle Peter revealed in 2 Peter 3:10 that God's consuming fire is going to burn man's works off this earth on that "day of the Lord"!!!

So really, to follow those pre-trib rapture doctors, one has to... become blind and ignorant to God's Truth.

 

[Reddsta]

To the people on this forum

Do you all really believe that in preparation for "whatever" you personally believe the future is goin to be...that this kind of mindless bantering about who is right and who is wrong is what the Lord of glory is teaching the sons of God today?

 

[Davy]

To the people on this forum

Do you all really believe that in preparation for "whatever" you personally believe the future is goin to be...that this kind of mindless bantering about who is right and who is wrong is what the Lord of glory is teaching the sons of God today?

It depends on who stays with God's Word as written, and who does not. Someone who can't recognize that difference has to also be ignorant that there is a spiritual war going on during this present world between the seed of the serpent and the Woman's seed (Genesis 3:15).

 

[Gottservant]

Permit me to be wrong, if I am, but isn't the argument online typically the work of the anti-Christ?

The time will come when you long to speak with a brother, and your brother will be called away?