Why Jesus Wants Us To Make A Stand During The Coming Tribulation

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Reddsta

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Permit me to be wrong, if I am, but isn't the argument online typically the work of the anti-Christ?
Your question really made me think...good question Gottservant. Well, I suppose so if that were the intention...and it seems to be for most. I do not believe that to be so for myself generally....I am typically looking for a good discussion of a certain or specific subject like eschatology for example...and to press into it or dig into it from shared perspectives.

In that endeavor, it is not uncommon to be called immature, heretic, lost, marked by the beast, and Satan among other loving judgements. It is rare that anyone wants to dig in to something for more understanding and I know why...they know everything already. It becomes a believe what I say or your wrong sort of thing...it is a rarity to anything that represents the "Berean brotherhood" type of engagement...in that sense or light I agree that "the argument online typically the work of the anti-Christ?"
The time will come when you long to speak with a brother, and your brother will be called away?
It is not clear to me what you are asking here...if you would like, can you clarify?
 

n2thelight

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Well, per 1 Thess.4:17, the saints still alive on earth will be "caught up" to Jesus at His returning to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem (Zech.14).

But there definitely will not be a pre-tribulational rapture.
Yes they will be on earth, as they can't overcome unless they are .
 

Stumpmaster

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Yes they will be on earth, as they can't overcome unless they are .
These are Christian martyrs.

(Rev 12:11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

These are tribulation saints.

(Rev 13:7) It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
 

Gottservant

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[...]

It is not clear to me what you are asking here...if you would like, can you clarify?
I'm just saying Jesus said "the time is coming when you will long for the days of the Son of Man and you will not find them" - the same applies to the brethren.

If we understood how precious our time is together, would we argue?
 

Davy

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These are Christian martyrs.

(Rev 12:11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

These are tribulation saints.

(Rev 13:7) It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
The "tribulation saints" theory is an idea pushed by the false Pre-trib Rapture doctrine of men.

All... saints go through the coming "great tribulation", because all of Christ's Church still alive on earth go through it, and that simply because Jesus showed His coming to gather His Church is AFTER... the tribulation.

Prior to the start of the "great tribulation", ALL... peoples on earth will be divided to one of two factions. Either one remains faithful waiting on Christ's coming and is not deceived by the pseudo-Christ that comes first working miracles like Jesus would do, or one believes that first one coming is Lord Jesus, when it will not be.

So there is no such thing as converts to Christ once the great tribulation has started. One is either waiting for Christ to come and will be persecuted, or one will believe on the instead of Christ that comes first and wrongly think Salvation has arrived.
 
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n2thelight

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These are Christian martyrs.

(Rev 12:11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

These are tribulation saints.

(Rev 13:7) It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
Why were those in Rev 12 not raptured , and what is a tribulation saint and why were they not raptured ?
 

The Light

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Apostle Paul's subject at the very start of 2 Thess.2 is about the coming of Christ and our gathering to Him. Then Paul was VERY specific that will not happen until 2 events happen first, the great falling away, and the revealing of the "man of sin" (Antichrist), which Paul also shows there that Jesus will destroy with the "brightness of His coming".

So don't try to tell me that 2 Thessalonians 2 chapter does not point to the time of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church. To say it doesn't is to LIE against Christ and that Scripture by His servant Apostle Paul.
As I said, the verses in 2 Thes 2 are talking about the gathering from heaven and earth that takes place at the 6th seal. This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus returning for His bride prior to the seals being opened..........the pretribulation rapture.

Even the blind can find an acorn every once in a while. And he was not the first to predict the restoration of the nation of Israel. God did, through His Old Testament prophets. All one needed to do was simply read it.
Darby was obviously correct that Israel would be restored as a nation and that God would keep His promise to Israel. It's clearly written in the Word of God. I wonder why Augustine could not see it.

I consider E.W. Bullinger as a great Bible scholar, but even he succumbed to the false Pre-trib Rapture theory because it was a popular doctrine in his day of 1880's Britain. That doesn't mean he didn't do some excellent scholarly work on other Bible topics. So you're not really proving anything by trying to claim Darby was some sort of prophet of God.

Fact of the matter still is, that "day of Christ" is actually "day of the Lord", which is the last day of this world.
You telling me that the day of Christ is actually the day of the Lord changes nothing. I already know that. Since Christ comes BEFORE the day of the Lord at the 6th seal as He says and Christ returns from the marriage supper at the earth with the armies of Heaven, HE obviously comes twice..........and yet you see only one coming. That's puzzling. And we are not even talking about the coming BEFORE the seals are opened.
Yes, per Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the dead in Christ rise first! That is pointing DIRECTLY to the day of the resurrection at the END of this world.
Even in the previous 1 Thess.4:15 verse, Paul says those of us still alive shall not precede (KJV "prevent") them which are asleep...

1 Thess 4:15-16
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV


So you should try following what the actual 1 Thessalonians 4 Scripture says as written.
You are on the wrong playing field and then telling me what is going on during the game.

Let's get on the same field. Do you understand that Jesus comes at the 6th seal BEFORE the Day of the Lord? Or do you think Jesus does not come at the 6th seal and only comes at the end of the trumpets at the judgement?

The "day of the Lord" has EVERYTHING... to do with the day of Christ's future coming and GATHERING of His Church. And there is only ONE HARVEST by Christ Jesus at the end of this world, as written.
Again let's get on the same field. We are watching different games. When does the day of the Lord begin? At the 6th seal or after the 7th trumpet?

Now I'm well aware that your false pre-trib rapture doctors lie and try to say the "day of the Lord" happens PRIOR to the time of "great tribulation".
TOTALLY INCORRECT STATEMANT. The day of the Lord does not begin prior to the great tribulation. Now tell me. Does it begin at the 6th seal or at the end of the trumpets? Or at the end of the vials
But that's all they're doing is telling a big fat LIE against Christ and the Scriptures. And their idea on that is so... stupid, because Apostle Peter revealed in 2 Peter 3:10 that God's consuming fire is going to burn man's works off this earth on that "day of the Lord"!!!

So really, to follow those pre-trib rapture doctors, one has to... become blind and ignorant to God's Truth.
So when does the day of the Lord begin?
 

The Light

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To the people on this forum

Do you all really believe that in preparation for "whatever" you personally believe the future is goin to be...that this kind of mindless bantering about who is right and who is wrong is what the Lord of glory is teaching the sons of God today?
Mindless bantering? You seem very unaware of what is going on. This the wise virgin's verses the foolish virgins. The foolish virgins have only enough lamp oil to see that the Lord comes one time. They are not prepared for the wedding feast when the bridegroom comes. If but one can be saved from going through the tribulation, that would be worth the effort. Plus, the blindness they spread needs to be checked for the young believers.
 

Stumpmaster

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Why were those in Rev 12 not raptured , and what is a tribulation saint and why were they not raptured ?
You could have found this out yourself:

Quote:
According to the premillennial view of the end times, the tribulation saints are the people who will come to faith in Jesus Christ during the tribulation period. The tribulation period is a seven-year time of judgments that will follow the rapture of the church. The tribulation will end with the second coming of Jesus to begin the 1,000-year millennial kingdom. The tribulation saints will face a strong likelihood of being martyred under the Antichrist’s rule. The Bible describes the number of tribulation saints as a great multitude, which no man could number1.
I hope this helps. [BingChat]
 

The Light

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Man's false Pre-trib Rapture doctrines bombard the deceived with the idea of escaping the tribulation, and flying away instead of making a stand for Jesus against the beast. The last thing they want their deceived congregations to hear is that Jesus wants us to make a 'stand' during the great tribulation for Him.

Here is the second harvest flying away. This is not the Church as they have already been caught up before the seals are opened.

Psalm 90
10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.
But that's really it. We are to make a STAND for Lord Jesus during the coming great trib.
Only the foolish virgins will need to make a stand during the great tribulation. The wise have lamp oil and understand there is more than one coming, as the foolish are not ready when the bridegroom comes.
 

Davy

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You could have found this out yourself:

Quote:
According to the premillennial view of the end times, the tribulation saints are the people who will come to faith in Jesus Christ during the tribulation period. The tribulation period is a seven-year time of judgments that will follow the rapture of the church. The tribulation will end with the second coming of Jesus to begin the 1,000-year millennial kingdom. The tribulation saints will face a strong likelihood of being martyred under the Antichrist’s rule. The Bible describes the number of tribulation saints as a great multitude, which no man could number1.
I hope this helps. [BingChat]

That of course is just a theory from men's doctrines, specifically the false Pre-trib Rapture Theory. That false theory also believes the Church is already raptured out prior to that tribulation, and they thus treat those so-called tribulation saints as the unbelieving that convert to Jesus during the tribulation, which of course is not written.

Just the opposite idea is written in God's Word, that the unbelieving will remain in deception until the day of Christ's coming. That means those deceived at the start of the trib, will remain deceived all the way through it to the end.

The way we know this is because of the act of God 'sealing' His faithful with His Seal in prep for the end times. A specific number of Israelites that will be 'sealed' is given in Revelation 7, 144,000 out of the 12 tribes of Israel listed there that are part of Christ's Church, and then the "great multitude" mentioned later, which represents believing Gentiles of the rest of Christ's faithful Church that will go through the tribulation also.

 

Reddsta

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I'm just saying Jesus said "the time is coming when you will long for the days of the Son of Man and you will not find them" - the same applies to the brethren.

If we understood how precious our time is together, would we argue?
Well one thought is that the "brethren" as you put it...will always be together...and they do not spend their time arguing...that's what the seed of the serpent does.
 

Reddsta

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Only the foolish virgins will need to make a stand during the great tribulation.
The foolish "virgins" will be the ones with no plan...fortunately for them...the wise "virgins" in this situation "will" have the oil...but most of the foolish "virgins" will reject their bid to come...and they will die in their fear and pride.
 

Davy

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The thing to remember is that the False Church, will be the last to admit the Rapture has occurred. It will admit it, but long after men become convinced it is irrelevant. So the belief (that the Rapture saves) as far as the World is concerned, will be moot.

This is the believer's playground, a world that doesn't see or know the Holy Spirit, within.
What you said there just does not make sense, and certainly is not Biblical.

There is NO playground by those who believe on Jesus Christ. There is only the matter of who each believer listens to, either to God in His Word, or to the reasoning of men which is often faulty.

There will be no believer in Christ's Church that will not know the "caught up" event of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 has happened. All... will know of it, even the wicked on that day of Christ's future coming.
 

Davy

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Permit me to be wrong, if I am, but isn't the argument online typically the work of the anti-Christ?

The time will come when you long to speak with a brother, and your brother will be called away?

I hate to say it, but you are "wrong" with that kind of thinking.


Those who want to 'argue' are those who refuse to accept the Scriptures as written. So why not concentrate your doubting upon them? Those (like myself), I'm staying with the Scripture as written. I'm doing that so to try and help my Christian brethren that are confused by all the false doctrines being spread by Satan's workers, even Satan's workers that come to forums like this one.

So there is... a battle going on for this present world, a spiritual battle, and it began back at the time of Genesis 3. You can either make a choice now which side you support, or you can 'try' to ride the fence and seek your own path (which will lead to destruction if no aligned with God's Word). You certainly will not be able to go it alone on your own. By the time the "great tribulation" starts, everyone, and I do mean everyone, will have made their choice to either believe on Jesus Christ and wait for His coming, or they will become apostate to the coming false-Messiah that comes first.