Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord

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Iconoclast

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Chapter 2: Of God and of the Holy Trinity

1. The Lord our God is but one only living and true God; whose subsistence is in and of himself, infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but himself; a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; who is immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, every way infinite, most holy, most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him, and withal most just and terrible in his judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.
( 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6; Deuteronomy 6:4; Jeremiah 10:10; Isaiah 48:12; Exodus 3:14; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Deuteronomy 4:15, 16; Malachi 3:6; 1 Kings 8:27; Jeremiah 23:23; Psalms 90:2; Genesis 17:1; Isaiah 6:3; Psalms 115:3; Isaiah 46:10; Proverbs 16:4; Romans 11:36; Exodus 34:6, 7; Hebrews 11:6; Nehemiah 9:32, 33; Psalms 5:5, 6; Exodus 34:7; Nahum 1:2, 3 )

2. God, having all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself, is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creature which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; he is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things, and he hath most sovereign dominion over all creatures, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth; in his sight all things are open and manifest, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain; he is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands; to him is due from angels and men, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience, as creatures they owe unto the Creator, and whatever he is further pleased to require of them.
( John 5:26; Psalms 148:13; Psalms 119:68; Job 22:2, 3; Romans 11:34-36; Daniel 4:25, 34, 35; Hebrews 4:13; Ezekiel 11:5; Acts 15:18; Psalms 145:17; Revelation 5:12-14 )

3. In this divine and infinite Being there are three subsistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power, and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being, but distinguished by several peculiar relative properties and personal relations; which doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of all our communion with God, and comfortable dependence on him.
( 1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Exodus 3:14; John 14:11; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:14,18; John 15:26; Galatians 4:6 )

< Chapter 1 | Table of Contents | Chapter 3 >



 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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not God!
Not man!
Not person!

what else is there?

The Holy Spirit is the invisible energizing force that God puts into action to accomplish his will. It is holy because it comes from Jehovah, who is clean and righteous to the highest degree, and because it is God’s means to accomplish what is holy. Luke 1:35; Acts 1:8.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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we don’t have a choice thee faith is thee faith period! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
The sacred deposit of faith!

You can make out that the scriptures are teaching you to deny it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human and sacrificed himself for mankind all you want, but the scriptures do not teach people to deny it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human and died for mankind. The antichrist doctrine teaches people to deny it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human and died for mankind not the scriptures.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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kcnalp said: And I will because Kingdom Hall LIED to you! [/Quote\]

It's you, and others who agree with you, who lie about the scriptures because you have been brainwashed to believe in a belief and not the truth that's in the scriptures.


Kcnalp said:
Barney please stop trying to rewrite our Bible until you provide your Greek expertise qualifications. Kingdom Hall saying you're an expert doesn't count. [/QUOTE]

You think I care about someone such as you or a group of people who agree with you, that teach it wasn't the Only-Begotten Son of God who became human and died for mankind.
I will continue to say what the scriptures have always said, that it was the Only-Begotten Son of God who became human and died for mankind and then was resurrected back to life three days after his death by God. The only True God is the Father and God of the Only-Begotten Son of God.
 

charity

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Because I know we all have our Bibles, I will not clutter this post with my preferred translation but only cite the relevant verses. Read carefully Acts 2:38; Acts 8:12; Acts 8:16; Acts 10:48; Acts 19:5; Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3; 1 Corinthians 1:13; Galatians 3:27. Then ask yourself the question of Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord? See Matthew 28:19.

This verse always bothered me for 2 reasons: 1st, it seems so out of place, stuck at the end like that. It seems so off that the Messiah would wait until after he died to drop this bombshell on them. Trinitarians often use it to justify trinitarianism. But wait. Upon further reflection, Matthew 28:19 does not state the nature of God, at all. If he said to baptize people in the name of Moe, Larry and Curly or Earth, Wind & Fire, it does not mean this is the nature of God.

2nd, after reading this Gospel passage and read the rest of the Bible, you find the many times The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord by baptizing people in other ways. This makes no sense. If I saw a man come back from the dead and he told me to do something, I would go ahead and do it.

The Apostles chose to die rather than abandon their risen Lord. It seems baptizing people in whatever name he said is a much lower standard of commitment. Yet the post-Gospel account indicates the opposite. Again, this makes no sense. Excerpts from this site offers an alternative and logical explanation:
Eusebius (c. 260—c. 340) was the Bishop of Caesarea and is known as “the Father of Church History.” He wrote prolifically and his most celebrated work is his Ecclesiastical History, a history of the Church from the Apostolic period until his own time. Eusebius quotes many verses in his writings including Matthew 28:19 several times. But he never quotes it as it appears in modern Bibles. He always finishes the verse with the words “in my name.”

The following example comes from an unaltered book of Matthew that could have been the original or the first copy of the original. Thus Eusebius informs us of the actual words Jesus spoke to his disciples in Matthew 28:19 which were, “With one word and voice He said to His disciples: “Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you,” — (Proof of the Gospel by Eusebius, Book III, Ch. 6, 132 (a), p. 152)

Eusebius was present at the council of Nicea and was involved in the debates over the Godhead. If the manuscripts he had in front of him read “in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” he would never have quoted instead, “in my name.” So it appears that the earliest manuscripts read “in my name,” and the phrase was enlarged to reflect the orthodox position as Trinitarian influence spread.

So, in conclusion:
  1. The Apostles did NOT Repeatedly Disobey the Risen Lord but did as he commanded him to baptize people in his name only.
  2. 4th century trinitarians changed Matthew 28:19 to fit their doctrine.
Hello @Wrangler,

I agree that there is no disobedience on the part of the Apostles, as you say. However, I believe that the word spoken by the Lord in Matthew 28 is to be fulfilled at the end of the Age, when Matthew 24:14 will also be fulfilled, 'And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.' Yes, it has a future application: this explanation does no injustice to God's written word.

Had Israel not rejected their Messiah, then Matthew 28:18-20 would have been fulfilled in that day, but now it awaits a future fulfilment. The wording obviously has a future application, ending as it does with the promise of the end of the age, and beginning with the words of our Lord, '
All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth' (see Revelation 5:13).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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theefaith

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The Holy Spirit is the invisible energizing force that God puts into action to accomplish his will. It is holy because it comes from Jehovah, who is clean and righteous to the highest degree, and because it is God’s means to accomplish what is holy. Luke 1:35; Acts 1:8.

he is the spirit of christ
 

theefaith

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You can make out that the scriptures are teaching you to deny it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human and sacrificed himself for mankind all you want, but the scriptures do not teach people to deny it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human and died for mankind. The antichrist doctrine teaches people to deny it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human and died for mankind not the scriptures.

So Jesus is Divine?
He is eternally begotten
 

Ziggy

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I believe the Spirit Jesus sent when he went to heaven, was his own spirit he gave to us.
He had to go so the comforter would come.
He couldn't share this spirit while in the flesh, he had to return in order to shed it forth in us.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

I believe Jesus is speaking of His Spirit. The Holy Spirit.
The same Spirit that was in Jesus while he walked the earth.
Which is the same Spirit of the Father given to Jesus and given to us.
All in All.

That's how I understand it.
Hugs
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I did not say he was Jesus but the spirit of Jesus

You answered post# 107 which I stated, "The Holy Spirit is the invisible energizing force that God puts into action to accomplish his will. It is holy because it comes from Jehovah, who is clean and righteous to the highest degree, and because it is God’s means to accomplish what is holy." You stated concerning that post by saying, "he is the spirit of Christ" so by answering that post that way, especially by using the word "he" in your answer, you are saying the Holy Spirit is Christ, so if you didn't mean to say that, watch how you answer a particular post. I wasn't stating in any way in post #107 that the Holy Spirit was a person.

Christ dwells in our hearts by letting his example and teachings affect our feelings and actions such as when we earnestly avoid things that could arouse such feelings as, lust, greed,or anger etc.That doesn't mean that a literal person is in our literal heart. When we earnestly try to follow the example of Jesus we will not be caught up in the spirit or form of amusement that arouses such feelings as lust, greed, or anger. If we have his spirit of not only loving righteousness but hating lawlessness and if we are letting the spirit of Christ fill our inner selves, we have the “same mental disposition” as the Christ, this is the spirit of Christ.
 

theefaith

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You answered post# 107 which I stated, "The Holy Spirit is the invisible energizing force that God puts into action to accomplish his will. It is holy because it comes from Jehovah, who is clean and righteous to the highest degree, and because it is God’s means to accomplish what is holy." You stated concerning that post by saying, "he is the spirit of Christ" so by answering that post that way, especially by using the word "he" in your answer, you are saying the Holy Spirit is Christ, so if you didn't mean to say that, watch how you answer a particular post. I wasn't stating in any way in post #107 that the Holy Spirit was a person.

Christ dwells in our hearts by letting his example and teachings affect our feelings and actions such as when we earnestly avoid things that could arouse such feelings as, lust, greed,or anger etc.That doesn't mean that a literal person is in our literal heart. When we earnestly try to follow the example of Jesus we will not be caught up in the spirit or form of amusement that arouses such feelings as lust, greed, or anger. If we have his spirit of not only loving righteousness but hating lawlessness and if we are letting the spirit of Christ fill our inner selves, we have the “same mental disposition” as the Christ, this is the spirit of Christ.

so God does not act for himself?