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Featured Why the pope could not possibly be the Antichrist

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Enoch111, May 24, 2020.

  1. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    ... then if you are as "SMRT", (per Homer Simpson), as you present, -- then WHAT is the Beast, and WHO is the False Prophet (a/c)?

    We're called to KNOW BOTH, but some may not be up to it.
    Bobby Jo
     
  2. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder how long the Sept. 1993 Dayton/Oslo "PEACE ACCORD" lasted.


    Hmmmmmmmmmm,
    Bobby Jo
     
  3. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    LOL I didn't say those who misunderstand are children, just that the concept of "after that one" means "during the next one" is not difficult to understand. After Friday comes Saturday, not a gap in time.

    Therefore "after 69 weeks" means "during the 70th" because the one follows after the other. No one sticks a "gap" between any of the 69 Weeks, so why stick one between the last two?
     
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  4. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Or it could mean the Jesus still had a few years Himself to finish the harvest He started the first time. It will happen very soon. This time soon is literal. Not just a promise.
     
  5. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and a pair of shoes cost seven and sixty-two dollars plus tax.

    Who'd be so ill advised as to cite a summation which DEFIES every Scriptural and Historical precedent. -- A mile and a quarter; a dozen and a half; four score and ten; etc. are all legitimate. But NO SOCIETY sums non-incremental numbers as contrived by the AGENDA DRIVEN "translators" -- and I use that term LOOSELY.

    So there are a few Versions with integrity including the RSV:

    Dan. 9:25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one [a FIRST], a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one [a SECOND] shall be cut off, and shall have nothing

    ... And it's not capita' "M", messiah, -- it's small "m" messiah.

    Silly people believe silly doctrines.
    Bobby Jo
     
  6. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    It's assumed by many that when Jesus was crucified, the prophetic clock "stopped" and won't begin ticking off the last seven years (or 3 1/2 years according to those who recognize we can't chop off the whole 7 years because Jesus was crucified "in the midst of the week") until right after the "secret rapture" of the church. The problem is that these ideas rely on a whole lot of subjectivity and assumptions but no rightly divided Scripture :)

    Historicism accepts the 70 Weeks as they are: 490 days which is symbolic for a 490 year period that ends with the Gospel being carried to the Gentiles -- a colossal event in the history of God's people. Over and over, Jesus warned of this. Parable after parable, He warned what persistent rebellion would bring the Jews. Even Jesus' words to Peter that we ought to forgive "not seven times, but SEVENTY TIMES SEVEN" is an inescapable allusion to Daniel's prophecy that God would give His post-Babylonian captive people 490 years to get their act together and announce Messiah's advent...sadly, instead of heralding Jesus, they crucified Him and God took the baton from the Jews and gave it to the church.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
  7. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    The most glaring of the many contrived, agenda driven ideas regarding hermeneutics is the insertion of a 2,000 year "gap" between the 69th and 70th Weeks of Daniel, and when we factor in the horrendous post-Reformation Bible versions, the problem gets worse.

    Paul F. Knitter, a well respected authoritarian among top Evangelical seminaries, wrote "No Other Name?" in which this Humanist, pseudo-Christian argues that Jesus is not the only means by which a person can be "saved"...and proudly calls his ideas, "first rate creative theology" --- the 70 Weeks "gap theory" rates equally to it.
     
  8. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Can you see the 2,000 year span embedded within the Dan 9:26b prophecy?

    Now Daniel 9:27 has no time stamp as to when it begins, however if we know who the insolent person/entity is that will make a solemn covenant with many is we can surmise that after the conclusion of the Dan 9:26b prophecy that a further 1,000 years must pass before the insolent person/entity can actually begin to enter into a solemn covenant with many?

    The real issue that has been created is THE ASSUMPTION that all of the Daniel 7:24-27 prophecies are related with each other whereas I would perceive that there are five separate and independent prophecies found within these four verses.

    As such, I would suggest that there is closer to 3,000 years between the start of the verse 26b prophecy and the verse 27 prophecy in these four verses.

    So many people cannot see that the prophecy in verse 24 spans a greater time span that the 70 weeks of years, which was the time allotted to Jerusalem and Israel to stop their iniquities and to repent of their sins.

    My consideration of this verse, would suggest that the 70 weeks of years ended when Christ was born, and that the fulfilment of the second half of this prophecy would be fulfilled around 33 years later.

    I would also suggest that the verse 25 prophecy began up around 30 to 40 years after the start of the verse 24 prophecy.

    The verse 26a prophecy we are told would occur after the conclusion of the verse 25 prophecy.

    In the verse 26b prophecy we are not told when the prince would descend on Jerusalem to desolate and devastate the city such that it would remained devastated and desolated until the end of the war. The prophecy is silent as to which war was being referred to, but from other OT prophecies we know that Israel would be scattered for a period of around 2,000 plus years because of their idolatry before God would turn once more towards Israel.

    The only war that I am aware of that could possible last for around 2,000 years is the battle in heaven against Satan before he is thrown out of heaven, and the continual trampling of God's sanctuary and earthly Hosts that still had around 2,000 years to go before the the 2,300 year duration of the trampling by the Gentiles would be completed.

    When Satan is thrown out of heaven he is immediately captured and imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years, after which time the bottomless pit is unlocked and Satan is free to roam all over the face of the earth and enter into a solemn covenant with the people of the earth at that time.

    40 or 50 years ago, this understanding was inconceivable, however with the number of unfolding End Time Prophecies being fulfilled before our very eyes, we do need to consider another paradigm which ticks more of the boxes than was ticked 40 to 50 years ago. We need to reconsider everything that we thought we knew about God's End Time strategies as to how they would unfold.


    Shalom
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  9. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Then Satan took the baton and created a major world religion. That is not my point. Revelation is very indicative that the Lamb will finish what He started but in a world where the church has fallen away into apostasy. The time of the Gospels and the harvest at the end of the ages, ends the church age and the 6000 years of Adam's punishment. Both end at the same harvest. Only those who could look back and see time would understand. Some however, do not see another 1000 years ahead. Some think that everyone goes through this time and then it is all over. That is not what Revelation says at all.
     
  10. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    It is kinda hard to ignore the last 2000 years. But if you say it did not happen, you are free to believe they do not exist.
     
  11. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    How crazy is this? 9:27 begins 69 years after 9:25. So all you have to do is discover in Scripture when GOD issued (per Young) the "going forth of the word to establish and rebuild Jerusalem".

    But if you want to be stupid, then don't look for the "going forth of the word" in Scripture*, and continue to wander about in the wilderness.

    * And per Young, it isn't a Persian Decree citation, but is a DICTATE DIRECTLY FROM GOD TO THE JEWS.
    Bobby Jo
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  12. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    ... that the prophecies are "shut up and sealed" until the 1900's
    ... that the "weeks" are not seven day or year durations. The Masculine Gender text discounts that premise.
    ... that the "books" is a reference to the Book of Psalms
    ... that the "going forth of the word" is not a Persian man/king edict, but rather an EDICT DIRECTLY FROM GOD TO THE JEWS
    ... that the seven is one duration with an anointed one; and the sixty-two is a SECOND duration with a SECOND anointed one
    ... that the end of the sixty-two comes as a "flood", as confirmed by the Psalms

    ... that the SECOND anointed one is not assassinated upon the end of the sixty-two, but simply "after"
    ... that the destroyer does not come during the seventieth literal week of years, but "shall come" after the seventieth week, -- some 3 decades after
    ... that there is NO gap between the end of the sixty-two and the seventieth

    But liars tickle ears, and some like having their ears tickled.
    Bobby Jo
     
  13. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Only satan can and is the AC
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  14. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Bobby Jo, it would seem that you did not read my complete post and began your usual diatribe against another member when they posted something that you did not agree with. The sad facts of the matter is that your claim that 9:27 began 69 years after 9:25 was unsupported by either scripture or historical facts. If you are going to be forthright in your understanding then present your facts such that they stand by themselves instead of the false argument that you present of calling another member "stupid."

    I am sure that the administration staff of this forum are aware of your abuse and bullying of other forum members into being silent and probably into also leaving this forum.

    I would recommend that you provide the citation fully and quote verbatim Young written passage to back up your claim. The citation should include the Book Title, the publisher, the date of its publication and the page in that book from which you are quoting.

    If you cannot formally and properly inform others on this forum in this way, then you words hold little value for anyone reading your posts on this forum.

    The ball is really in your court if you want people to take you seriously.

    Shalom

    PS: - In my post that your ridiculed all the words I presented were my own without drawing any assumed wisdom from others.
     
  15. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    It's not me saying there's no "gap", Scripture denies it. It's purely inference which was unknown to the world until Jesuit Ribera introduced it. The 70th Week immediately follows the 69th Week and begins with Jesus walking up out of the Jordan and ends 3 1/2 years after His death with the official, national religio/secular Jewish rejection of Messiah via the stoning of Stephen followed by the Gospel being carried from the Jews to the Gentiles.
     
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  16. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    Strange you should say that. Futurist apologists insert all imaginary gap to cover the 2000 years they believe should be there, then deny the actual prophetic Revelation of that same 2000 years in Daniel and Revelation as if God want aware it would take place. Strange contradiction. Ignore it where it's actually revealed, and imagine it where it isn't.
     
  17. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be the one denying The Lamb the ability to reap the harvest. There is still the small point of a 1000 literal reign of Christ. I think that John did a great job of warning the church and not really putting undo attention on any 1990 year gap.

    It is false theology from the very first commentary on Revelation which has misconstrued or mislead the church in this "gap". The church then argued about it for 1950+ years.
     
  18. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

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    I am somewhat hesitant to get involved in such juvenile Biblically illiterate arguments, but for those who have read the Bible, the multiple meanings for the 70 sevens is very simple.

    Daniel prophesies “Seventy sevens have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place." Daniel 9:24

    While many Bible translation declare "seventy weeks", I think that was merely for the purpose of simplicity. Daniel's prophesy from the Hebrew actually declares 70x7s or 70 heptads, 'groups' of seven.

    From what I have read in Scripture, it is a threefold prophesy:

    1. First of all it was an immediate prophesy was 'for your people' concerning the present Babylonian Captivity, that their captivity would last for 7x70, i.e. 490 weeks or 70 years.

    They were in captivity because they failed to observe the 7th year + Jubilee sabbaths for a period of 7x70, or 490 years. So now they would observe the sabbaths in a 7x70 period of captivity, to fulfill "the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete." 2 Chronicles 36:21

    "This whole land will be a desolation and a horror, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon 70 years." Jeremiah 25:11

    “For thus says the Lord, ‘When 70 years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back home and give you all the good things I have promised." Jeremiah 29:10

    2. The next aspect of the prophecy, declares when the Anointed One will arrive: 69x7 weeks (of years), but is then cut-off, i.e when He was crucified, with one week left to go.

    3.The last 70 7s was the time "to make atonement for iniquity (sacrificial system re-instituted) . . . to anoint the most holy place (the third Temple)." Daniel 9:24, which is yet future.

    The entire 70x7 system instituted "upon your people" Israel permeates Scripture.

    It starts out with "Terah lived 70 years, and became the father of Abram" Genesis 11

    And "the sons of Joseph, who were born to him in Egypt were two; all the persons of the house of Jacob, who came to Egypt, were 70". Genesis 46:27

    In the End times, instead of talking about years, we are talking about Jubilees.

    Although Israel again became a partial nation on May 14, 1948, it was yet incomplete until the 69th Jubilee, celebrated by the 6 day war of 1967, wherein West and East Jerusalem finally became a united Jerusalem, and Israel became a complete nation with the Holy City once again united as one.

    The US Embassy opened at its Jerusalem location on May 14, 2018, the 70th anniversary of the creation of the modern State of Israel. It was also the 70th Jubilee (70x50) since the inception of the Nation of Israel.
     
  19. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Two things:
    1. How many times must I cite the source? Once? A Dozen times? Every time?
    2. If I cited the source, would it make any difference to your doctrines?​

    I would propose that I HAVE cited my source to you multiple times and you've rejected it each time. -- Consider my Post #132:

    ... that the prophecies are "shut up and sealed" until the 1900's
    ... that the "weeks" are not seven day or year durations. The Masculine Gender text discounts that premise.
    ... that the "books" is a reference to the Book of Psalms
    ... that the "going forth of the word" is not a Persian man/king edict, but rather an EDICT DIRECTLY FROM GOD TO THE JEWS
    ... that the seven is one duration with an anointed one; and the sixty-two is a SECOND duration with a SECOND anointed one
    ... that the end of the sixty-two comes as a "flood", as confirmed by the Psalms
    ... that the SECOND anointed one is not assassinated upon the end of the sixty-two, but simply "after"
    ... that the destroyer does not come during the seventieth literal week of years, but "shall come" after the seventieth week, -- some 3 decades after
    ... that there is NO gap between the end of the sixty-two and the seventieth​

    Did you defend a SINGLE ONE of these incongruities, of which the last is the only one which you apparently agree with? What of the rest?

    Your "beef" is not with a "source" but rather an excuse to accuse and attack the TRUTH of Scripture and History. And there will be a price to be paid.
    Bobby Jo
     
  20. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    ... beyond your apparent age related infirmity. And it not a slander, but simply an acknowledgement that for example, Reagan was having difficulty in his second term; Biden is having difficulty leading to his Primary; and it's a natural course of life.

    And so we can smile and nod when you repeat your incorrect beliefs, because we understand that you're not the man you used to be, and confusion is part of getting older.

    Bobby Jo
     
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