ATP said:
Where does it say they had overcome the faith, where does it say they had it in the first place?? They're not overcoming the faith here. It's the exact opposite. They are overthrowing the faith of other people.
2 Tim 2:18 KJV Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Poor recollection of the word does not make my point invalid. You cannot overthrow the faith of some unless they had faith. To overthrow faith is to overcome that faith and both means the same thing; losing that faith in Jesus Christ.
Here is another reference citing the same thing of losing the faith they had in the first place.
1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
You cannot depart from faith unless you had that faith to begin with. This is why God is coming to judge His House first to restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake because He is the Good Shepherd after all.
You're making this topic more difficult than it really is. The root of your belief is the problem. If your root is false then you will take scriptures out of context day after day. Similar to how some try to prove OSAS is false. The root of your belief is that believers will be left behind at rapture, and that is simply not true. Either you're a believer or not. The words (reprobate, unapproved, disqualified, dishonor, apostate) all represent unsaved nonbelievers. In order to understand this you would need to fix your root first.
But now that you have read 1 Timothy 4:1-2, what of your root understanding needs adjustment with His help? You seem to think that every believer will no matter what, will run that race by faith in their Good Shepherd in helping them to follow Jesus as His disciple in abiding in in Him & His word, and yet they had to be taught by His disciples to learn of His words to trust Him and all His promises to them as their Good Shepherd to have that hope in following Him. That is why many are called, but few are chosen to attend the Marriage Supper. Those not found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples are not chosen but cut off & become castaways.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.....16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Notice how Jesus is referring to servants that are His in differentiating how they can find themselves cut off and found himself having his "portion" with the unbelievers when He sends fire on the earth..
Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness,
if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
That warning above might as well not be mentioned if it was towards the unbelievers since unbelievers are not stressed to continue in goodness to be saved from the wrath that is coming on the earth.
I am not speaking against OSAS, but rather for it. Voiding faith in believers by misleading them from the truth is not the only thing that can overthrow a believer. Carnal sinful living can too.
2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Those that profess Him but are cast out thus denying them because of iniquity that denies Him ( Titus 1:16 & 2 Timothy 2:12 ), are still His because even when they believe not any more, He still abides in them and cannot deny Himself. 2 Timothy 2:13
So OSAS is true and this is why His disciples are commanded to make disciples of other believers; to remain free from sin's dominion over their lives and keeping the faith which is the good fight from those trying to void it or overthrow it in our walk with Him.
Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
That's Jesus telling me symbolically that what we and the church failed to do to correct one astray, after the rapture in gathering the 99, He will get what is His sheep, even if it was just one that went astray to show the importance of every astrayed sheep that are His.
That is why the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance of being the firstfruits, will find that he is still son although his first inheritance can never be had again after having been spent. OSAS remains true and why not every one that says Lord Lord, are ready to be found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples to be chosen to attend the Marriage Supper when the Bridegroom comes.
2 Peter 3: 3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2 Corinthians 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.11
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Reprobate, unapproved, and disqualified all shows the risk of not being accepted by Him to attend the Marriage Supper in His honour.
This is why His disciples are to teach saved believers to run that race as saved believers by faith in Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd in learning of Him & His promises to them in helping them to abide in Him & His words as His disciples to be chosen.