Will God's Forgiveness Save Anyone?

[H. Richard]

why does "faith" appear...well, disappear, in your model? "Belief" is all i hear.

***
Are you so blind that you can not see the words? Faith= belief = trust = confidence all mean the same thing. Each word can be used to describe the other.

From my dictionary; faith; unquestioning BELIEF, to trust, complete trust, confidence; see belief.

 

[Helen]

As you probably well know by now...I am a believer in ..

2 Corinthians 5:18 - "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation"
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled"

I spent my first 20 years as a Christian believing what was taught by man in "church"...but praise God for the deliverance!

When God sent Jesus His message through the angels was:-
"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

That is how much He loved the man He had made.
All the things that people argue about re hell punishment ...if studied correctly (ten talents , wise and foolish virgins etc)....is all about our position and rewards (or no rewards) in Heaven or New Earth etc.

But...I wont argue the point...I am just stating what "I" believe...everyone else is free to believe what they think that they see ( or have been taught) from the scriptures.
So do I believe every man will be saved?
I already believe every man HAS been saved...day by day..each one of us is working out by our fruitfulness, OR NOT...what our position will be at the End of the day.

Be blessed...

 

[bbyrd009]

***
Are you so blind that you can not see the words? Faith= belief = trust = confidence all mean the same thing. Each word can be used to describe the other.

From my dictionary; faith; unquestioning BELIEF, to trust, complete trust, confidence; see belief.

i continue to get the impression from you that we are like engaged in some life/death struggle to determine which is true, A or notA, when i have already acknowledged that your perspective has validity, as far as it goes?

and your dictionary may define belief in those terms, but Scripture does not; it is the difference in laquach and pistis, i guess. There is another term for "beliefs" as well, but this will suffice for now. And we can witness how pistis is being turned into laquach in many translations now, not just your "dictionary." But it should be apparent that if you once had a belief in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, you can have any number of "beliefs," but they are not "faith."

 

[bbyrd009]

I already believe every man HAS been saved...day by day..each one of us is working out by our fruitfulness, OR NOT...what our position will be at the End of the day.

ha, but how are we to understand this? haven't you essentially said
"I already believe every man HAS been saved...OR NOT."

 

[Helen]

ha, but how are we to understand this? haven't you essentially said
"I already believe every man HAS been saved...OR NOT."

Yes I said that.
If I went to the court and paid your fine for you, it would no longer be yours, you would owe nothing
I believe people are saved but are blinded by the enemy.
They have had the price paid, but they sit in a prison of their own choice which has the door swung wide opened.
They have been redeemed...but are still choosing the captivity of the devil.
They have made no attempt to come out, to God the Father.

Not asking you to believe what I believe...that would be a miracle too far!

 

[bbyrd009]

If I went to the court and paid your fine for you, it would no longer be yours, you would owe nothing

at least until i did something that incurred a fine in the future, yes

were you given the impression that believing in Jesus made sin impossible to commit or something?

 

[Helen]

were you given the impression that believing in Jesus made sin impossible to commit or something?

Not at all.
Any more than when my kids were young I believed that they would always obey me. Or always listen to my wise advice.

God knew this too ..and made a provision for their short fall.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not at all.
Any more than when my kids were young I believed that they would always obey me. Or always listen to my wise advice.

God knew this too ..and made a provision for their short fall.

if/when they are willing to confess, sure.

The point being that forgiveness does not save! confession does

 

[Helen]

if/when they are willing to confess, sure.

The point being that forgiveness does not save! confession does

hummm can they be separated?
If I paid your outstanding fine and you were unaware of it so didn't say thank- you...
Would that put you back in the place of still owing that fine? I think not.

I think our thank-you to God is even more important than our feeble confessions.

 

[H. Richard]

if/when they are willing to confess, sure.

The point being that forgiveness does not save! confession does

***
I reject your point. Our faith, belief, trust, confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross is what saves us.

If you do not believe the scriptures I gave in "THE SIN OF UN-BELIEF"" then you are committing the sin of un-belief. In those scriptures God has said Jesus atoned for, paid for, all the sins of mankind. If you do not believe it then your sins are not atoned for, paid for. Jesus said the same thing when asked "who then can be saved". He said "with man it is impossible but with God all things are possible.

 

[bbyrd009]

hummm can they be separated?
If I paid your outstanding fine and you were unaware of it so didn't say thank- you...
Would that put you back in the place of still owing that fine? I think not.

I think our thank-you to God is even more important than our feeble confessions.

well, you have characterized it as a "ty" rather than an act of contrition, so i'm not sure how to answer there.

 

[bbyrd009]

I reject your point. Our faith, belief, trust, confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross is what saves us.

Confession is made unto salvation
confess your sins, one to another
forgive, and you will be forgiven

many will cry "Lord, Lord"

 

[H. Richard]

Confession is made unto salvation
confess your sins, one to another
forgive, and you will be forgiven

many will cry "Lord, Lord"

***

Those that place their faith, belief, trust and confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross know in whom they believe, have faith in, trust in, have confidence in. Perhaps you should think of yourself when you wrote the above. But is is obvious, to me, that you will be the one crying "LORD LORD" since you reject the salvation that Jesus obtained for you on the cross.

It would be nice if you would give the book, chapter and verse that you are quoting.

I bet you will love this one.

Heb 10:23
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
NKJV

In case you can't see it I have continually made confession on this and other forums that My faith, my belief, my trust, my confidence is in what Jesus did on the cross and I have not wavered.

 

[bbyrd009]

In case you can't see it I have continually made confession on this and other forums that My faith, my belief, my trust, my confidence is in what Jesus did on the cross and I have not wavered.

yes, so "confession" is even defined according to how one wants to read it; we have two definitions for "confession," and you have picked the easy one, that being whatever comes out of your mouth.

But we should at least give a nod to the other, harder confession, imo. So profess, Strong's Greek: 3670. ὁμολογέω (homologeó) -- to speak the same, to agree, gets turned into confess, Strong's Greek: 1843. ἐξομολογέω (exomologeó) -- to agree, confess

the same way belief gets turned into faith, and as far as i'm concerned, country gets turned into nation, although i guess the connection is not so clear there. Regardless, Scripture is not fooled, apparently; as long as one does not rely on a translation anyway, i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Heb 10:23
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
NKJV

so then, corrected this will read

"Let us hold fast the profession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful."

iow confession is not even addressed in this, unless one chooses to believe that it has been

 

[bbyrd009]

Those that place their faith, belief, trust and confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross know in whom they believe, have faith in, trust in, have confidence in.

this is revealed in Scripture as being Nehushtan worship, if/when one is ready to see it. And these are easy to spot, because they are "all talk and no action." So the hidden becomes revealed in a really weird way, because professors...well ha, i don't even need to finish the sentence, do i, everyone knows about professors already huh

 

[H. Richard]

this is revealed in Scripture as being Nehushtan worship, if/when one is ready to see it. And these are easy to spot, because they are "all talk and no action." So the hidden becomes revealed in a really weird way, because professors...well ha, i don't even need to finish the sentence, do i, everyone knows about professors already huh

***
Gal 3:1-3
3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

I understand that you want to be made perfect by your own works. You will be judged by the words of this scripture.

 

[bbyrd009]

I understand that you want to be made perfect by your own works.

yes, i know, you have to hear it that way, no matter how many times it is clarified that works do not save, yet you will still be judged by your works. Both are Scripture, but we reject the Scripture that we cannot assimilate.

 

[bbyrd009]

You will be judged by the words of this scripture.

so you say, but i read "You will be judged by your works," and google can find my ref, but cannot find yours, see.

 

[bbyrd009]

I understand that you want to be made perfect by your own works.

i understand that you cannot acknowledge much of Scripture right now, but "you will be judged by your works" exists nonetheless.
So, what we are doing here is basically avoiding a discussion, see, not having one.

Wadr could i get you to ignore me, until you are ready to at least acknowledge the Scripture--any kind of way--that you currently cannot? Or should i put you down for about two weeks from now, after the sting of cognitive dissonance has worn off here, and--you hope--this convo has dropped into obscurity once again? The usual, iow?