Yahweh Says to Adoni

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ByGraceThroughFaith

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Yahweh Says to Adoni

“While the Pharisees were gathered, Jesus asked them, saying, What do you think of Christ (του χριστου)? Whose son is He? They say to Him, David's. He said to them, How then does David by the Spirit call him Lord, saying, "the LORD said to my Lord (ειπεν ο κυριος τω κυριω μου), Sit on My right until I make Your enemies Your footstool for Your feet?" If David then calls Him Lord, how is He His Son? And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day to question Him any more” (Matthew 22:41-46)

“And answering, teaching in the temple, Jesus said, How do the scribes say that Christ (ο χριστος) is the Son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: "The LORD said to my Lord (ειπεν ο κυριος τω κυριω μου), Sit at My right hand until I place Your enemies as Your footstool." David therefore himself calls Him Lord, and why then is He his son? And the great crowd heard Him gladly” Mark 12:35-37)

“And He said to them, How do they say that Christ (τον χριστον) is the Son of David? Even David himself says in the Book of Psalms, "The LORD said to my Lord (ειπεν ο κυριος τω κυριω μου), Sit at My right hand until I place Your enemies as Your footstool." David then calls Him Lord; how then is He His Son?” (Luke 20:41-44)

“For David has not ascended into the heavens, but he says himself, "The LORD said to my Lord (ειπεν ο κυριος τω κυριω μου), Sit at My right hand until I place Your enemies as a footstool to Your feet." Assuredly therefore let know, all the House of Israel, that both Lord and Christ Him God has made, this Jesus (οτι και κυριον και χριστον αυτον ο θεος εποιησεν τουτον τον ιησουν), Whom you have crucified” (Acts 2:34-36)

In Matthew’s Gospel, Jesus asks as questions, “What do you think of Christ? Whose son is He?. In Mark and Luke, they are as answers “How do the scribes say that Christ is the Son of David? In the Book of Acts, Peter is quoting the words of David in Prophecy, about The Messiah. In each case, we have Psalm 110:1 quoted, “The LORD said to my Lord”, as affirming that Jesus Christ is LORD, as equivalent to the Hebrew Yahweh.

In the Gospel Accounts, Jesus is not denying that He is “the Son of David”, as is confirmed in Romans 1:3, “concerning his Son, who was born of the offspring of David according to the flesh”. Even when those said to Jesus, “Son of David” (Matthew 9:27; 15:22; 20:30; Mark 10:47; Luke 18:38), He never said that He was not. In fact, it is also clear from the Genealogy of Jesus Christ, that He is, “the [son] of David” (Luke 3:31).

It is clear from what and how Jesus is responding in the Gospels, that He was saying, that He is more than being from the human line of King David. David, says Jesus, calls Him his LORD, and therefore more than his “Son”.

Jesus quotes from Psalm 110:1, “The LORD (yehôvâh) says to my Lord (’āḏōn): “Sit at My Right Hand, until I make Your enemies Your footstool”

It is argued by those who reject the Bible’s clear Teaching, that Jesus Christ, is from eternity past, The Eternal God, Yahweh, and 100% COEQUAL with God the Father. In “defence” of their argument, it is said, that in Psalm 110:1, the Father is called “Yahweh”; and Jesus Christ, “Adoni”, which is from the Hebrew root, “’āḏōn”, and means no more than “master”, as when used for human “masters”. This title, it is argued, is never used for God the Father. I am adding from Unitarian and Jewish Rabbi’s websites, to show their reasoning

“The Hebrew word translated “my lord” is adoni (pronounced “Adon nee”) in the standard Hebrew texts. This word is always used in Scripture to describe human masters and lords, but never God...The difference between adon (the root word), adoni (“lord,” always used of men or angels) and adonai (which is used of God and sometimes written adonay) is critical to the understanding of Psalm 110:1.” (Psalm 110:1 - A Verse Used to Support the Trinity | BiblicalUnitarian.com)

Likewise, we have the argument used by a Jewish Rabbi:

“I should note that the second “lord” in Hebrew is not “ado-nai” – the term the Torah reserves for God, but “adoni”. The latter is a simple Hebrew word which means “my lord” but is not sacred. Throughout the Torah that word is used in reference to honored human beings but never to God, e.g. Genesis 18:3, 23:6, 24:18, 31:35, 33:8, 34:14, 44:18, etc. Thus, it was incorrectly capitalized in your translation. In fact, Hebrew has no capital letters so capitalizations which are found in English translations are merely based on translators’ assumptions, and as you can see, are not always reliable.” (Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld; Psalm 110 – Two Lords - aish.com)

It is very clear from these websites, that the Hebrew “’āḏōn” is used for Jesus Christ, which is never used for the One True God of the Bible, and therefore “proves” that Jesus Christ cannot be Yahweh, The Almighty God. I am giving a few examples from the Old Testament, where it is clear, that “’āḏōn” is used, in both the singular and plural forms, for Yahweh. Not only so, but, there is also very clear evidence, that the Name “’ăḏōnāy”, is also used in the Old Testament, for humans, as in Genesis chapter 19, and Ezra 10.

Further, it is very clear from Psalm 110:5, where it says, “The Lord at Your Right Hand”, Who is the same “’āḏōn”, in verse 1, is here called, “’ăḏōnāy”. In fact, there are a number of Hebrew manuscripts, that actually read “yehôvâh”, in verse 5. Some try to get around this fact, by suggesting that in verse 5, it is the “yehôvâh” of verse 1, Who is referred to. And even some conjecture that in this verse, “yehôvâh” changes places with “’āḏōn”, and is on His Right Hand! These are desperate arguments, used by those who simply oppose what the Bible actually does say about Jesus Christ. There is no a single verse in the entire Bible, where we read of God the Father, as being on the Right Hand of Jesus Christ. It is very clear, from verse 5, and the corruption to its reading in the Jewish Hebrew manuscripts, where some read “’ăḏōnāy”, and others “yehôvâh”, that these changes were made deliberately by the Jews, who did not want the Bible to say that Jesus Christ is Yahweh. Dr Adam Clarke, in his Commentary on Psalms, says on 110:1, “Said unto my Lord. Instead of ladoni, "my Lord," one MS. seems to have read layhovah, "Jehovah said unto Jehovah, 'Sit thou on my right hand,'" c. See De Rossi.”. Even the one Hebrew manuscript, which is Jewish and not Christian, shows that there has been tampering of the text, as we have no doubt seen from verse 5.

Here are some Bible passages, that show the Hebrew “’āḏōn”, is used for Almighty God, Yahweh.

Exodus 23:17, “Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord (’āḏōn) God (yehôvâh)”

Exodus 34:23, “Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the Lord (’āḏōn) God (yehôvâh), the God ('ĕlôhı̂ym) of Israel”

Deuteronomy 10:17, “For the LORD (yehôvâh) your God ('ĕlôhı̂ym), he is God of gods and Lord of lords (’ăḏōn, ’ăḏōn), the Great (gâdôl) God (’ēl), the Mighty (hagibōr), and the Awesome (yârê'), who doesn’t respect persons or take bribes”

Joshua 3:11, 13, “Behold, the ark of the covenant of the Lord (’ăḏōn) of all the earth passeth over before you into Jordan...And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD (yehôvâh), the Lord (’ăḏōn) of all the earth”

Nehemiah 8:10, “for this day is holy to our Lord (’ăḏōn). And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength”

Nehemiah 10:29, “do all the commandments of the LORD (yehôvâh) our Lord (’ăḏōn) and His rules and His statutes”

Psalm 8:1, “O LORD (yehôvâh), our Lord (’ăḏōn), how Majestic is Your Name in all the earth! You have set your Glory above the heavens”

Psalm 8:9, “O LORD (yehôvâh), our Lord (’ăḏōn), how majestic is your name in all the earth!”

Psalm 97:5, “The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD (yehôvâh), at the presence of the Lord (’ăḏōn) of the whole earth”

Psalm 114:7, “Tremble, O earth, at the presence of the Lord (’ăḏōn)”

Psalm 136:3, “Give thanks to the Lord of lords (’ăḏōn,’ăḏōn); for His loving kindness endures forever”

Psalm 145:5, “Great is our Lord (’ăḏōn), and abundant in Power”

Isaiah 1:24, “Therefore saith the Lord (’ăḏōn), the LORD (yehôvâh) of hosts, the Mighty One of Israel”

Isaiah 3:1, “For behold, the Lord (’ăḏōn) the LORD (yehôvâh) of hosts”

Isaiah 10:16, “Therefore shall the Lord (’ăḏōn), the LORD (yehôvâh) of hosts”

Isaiah 10:33, “behold, the Lord (’ăḏōn) the LORD (yehôvâh) of hosts”

Isaiah 19:4, “says the Lord (’ăḏōn) the LORD (yehôvâh) of hosts”

Isaiah 51:22, “Thus saith thy Lord (’ăḏōn) the LORD (yehôvâh), and thy God ('ĕlôhı̂ym)”

Micah 4:13, “the LORD (yehôvâh), and their substance unto the Lord (’ăḏōn) of the whole earth”

Zechariah 4:14, “Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord (’ăḏōn) of the whole earth”

Zechariah 6:5, “the LORD (yehôvâh), and their substance unto the Lord (’ăḏōn) of the whole earth”

Malachi 3:1, “And the Lord (’ăḏōn) Whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple; and the Messenger of the Covenant”

Here we have ’ăḏōnāy used for humans

Genesis 19:18; “And Lot said to them, “Oh, no, my lords (’ăḏōnāy)”

Ezra 10:3, “Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord (’ăḏōnāy)”
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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Cont...
The reading of the Greek Septuagint Version of the Old Testament (LXX), which was completed about 100 years before The Birth of Jesus Christ, is also important.

“ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου” (The Lord to my Lord).

In both places it uses the Greek “κύριος”, with the definite article. This can indeed show that the original Hebrew has not difference.

In the second century, we had three additional Greek Old Testament translations appearing, one by a man Symmachus, who was a Jewish “christian” from the Ebionites, a cult. His version was used by the scholar Jerome in translating the Latin Vulgate. In Psalm 110:1, Symmachus reads:

“ὁ κύριος τῷ δεσπότη μου” (Frederick Field; Origenis Hexaplorum quae supersunt; Vol. II, p.266)

“The Lord to my master”

There is a clear difference in the version of Symmachus, which could show that in the original Hebrew, there is a difference. However, even the Greek “δεσπότης”, is used for God in the LXX, as can be seen from these examples. In the example in Proverbs, “δεσπότης”, is used for the Hebrew “yehôvâh”

Genesis 15:2, “But Abram said, O Lord (Δέσποτα) GOD”

Genesis 15:8, “And he said, Lord GOD (Δέσποτα κύριε), whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?”

Proverbs 29:25, “but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD (yehôvâh/δεσπότῃ) shall be safe”

Isaiah 1:24, “Therefore the Lord (ὁ δεσπότης) declares, the LORD (κύριος) of hosts, the Mighty One of Israel”

Isaiah 10:33, “Behold, the Lord, the LORD (ὁ δεσπότης κύριος) of hosts”

There can be no doubt, that the facts are clear, even from the reading of verse 1, “Yahweh Says to Adoni”, that there is no reason, as seen for the evidence of usage in the Old Testament, that both Titles are the same, and both are used for Deity. Only those, like the Unitarians, and Jewish, and Liberal “christians”, and those who oppose that the Bible very clearly teaches Jesus Christ is Almighty God; who will keep their arguments about Psalm 110:1, and the references by Jesus Christ to this in the Gospels.

In Isaiah 9:6, we have The Prophecy for the Birth of the Lord Jesus Christ:

“For a Child will be born to us, a Son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His Name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace”

One of the Names for Jesus Christ, is “’ēl gibwōr”, which is “Mighty God”. In the next chapter in Isaiah, we read, “but shall lean on Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. A remnant will return, even the remnant of Jacob, to the Mighty God ’ēl gibwōr” (verses 20-21). Even the New World Translation by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, in both places reads, “Mighty God”. This is very strong evidence from those who reject that Jesus Christ is GOD, that He is GOD, as their own translation confirms! Two distinct Persons, Who are equally MIGHTY GOD.

In Deuteronomy 10:17, it reads: “For the LORD (yehôvâh) your God ('ĕlôhı̂ym), he is God of gods and Lord of lords (’ăḏōn, ’ăḏōn), the Great (gâdôl) God (’ēl), the Mighty (hagibōr), and the Awesome (yârê'), who doesn’t respect persons or take bribes”. This verse in Deuteronomy uses “’ăḏōn” for “Lord”, which is the same root as Psalm 110:1. We also have in this verse, “’ēl gibwōr”. It is clear that Deuteronomy 10:17, is about Jesus Christ.

The Bible is very clear, that God is NOT “Unitarian”! It is IMPOSSIBLE from what we actually read in the Bible.
 
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Matthias

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Adoni occurs 195 times in the Hebrew Bible. It is a title reserved for human beings and occasionally angels.
  1. Genesis 18:12
  2. Genesis 23:6
  3. Genesis 23:11
  4. Genesis 23:15
  5. Genesis 24:12
  6. Genesis 24:12
  7. Genesis 24:14
  8. Genesis 24:18
  9. Genesis 24:27
  10. Genesis 24:27
  11. Genesis 24:27
  12. Genesis 24:35
  13. Genesis 24:36
  14. Genesis 24:36
  15. Genesis 24:37
  16. Genesis 24:39
  17. Genesis 24:42
  18. Genesis 24:44
  19. Genesis 24:48
  20. Genesis 24:48
  21. Genesis 24:49
  22. Genesis 24:54
  23. Genesis 24:56
  24. Genesis 24:65
  25. Genesis 31:35
  26. Genesis 32:4
  27. Genesis 32:5
  28. Genesis 32:18
  29. Genesis 33:8
  30. Genesis 33:13
  31. Genesis 33:14
  32. Genesis 33:14
  33. Genesis 33:15
  34. Genesis 39:8
  35. Genesis 42:10
  36. Genesis 43:20
  37. Genesis 44:5
  38. Genesis 44:7
  39. Genesis 44:9
  40. Genesis 44:16
  41. Genesis 44:16
  42. Genesis 44:18
  43. Genesis 44:18
  44. Genesis 44:19
  45. Genesis 44:20
  46. Genesis 44:22
  47. Genesis 44:24
  48. Genesis 44:33
  49. Genesis 47:18
  50. Genesis 47:18
  51. Genesis 47:18
  52. Genesis 47:25
  53. Exodus 21:5
  54. Exodus 32:22
  55. Numbers 11:28
  56. Numbers 12:11
  57. Numbers 32:25
  58. Numbers 32:27
  59. Numbers 36:2
  60. Numbers 36:2
  61. Joshua 5:14
  62. Judges 4:18
  63. Judges 6:13
  64. Ruth 2:13
  65. 1 Samuel 1:15
  66. 1 Samuel 1:26
  67. 1 Samuel 1:26
  68. 1 Samuel 22:12
  69. 1 Samuel 24:6
  70. 1 Samuel 24:8
  71. 1 Samuel 24:10
  72. 1 Samuel 25:24
  73. 1 Samuel 25:25
  74. 1 Samuel 25:25
  75. 1 Samuel 25:26
  76. 1 Samuel 25:26
  77. 1 Samuel 25:27
  78. 1 Samuel 25:27
  79. 1 Samuel 25:28
  80. 1 Samuel 25:28
  81. 1 Samuel 25:29
  82. 1 Samuel 25:30
  83. 1 Samuel 25:31
  84. 1 Samuel 25:31
  85. 1 Samuel 25:31
  86. 1 Samuel 25:41
  87. 1 Samuel 26:17
  88. 1 Samuel 26:18
  89. 1 Samuel 26:19
  90. 1 Samuel 29:8
  91. 1 Samuel 30:13
  92. 1 Samuel 30:15
  93. 2 Samuel 1:10
  94. 2 Samuel 3:21
  95. 2 Samuel 4:8
  96. 2 Samuel 9:11
  97. 2 Samuel 11:11
  98. 2 Samuel 11:11
  99. 2 Samuel 13:32
  100. 2 Samuel 13:33
  101. 2 Samuel 14:9
  102. 2 Samuel 14:12
  103. 2 Samuel 14:15
  104. 2 Samuel 14:17
  105. 2 Samuel 14:17
  106. 2 Samuel 14:18
  107. 2 Samuel 14:19
  108. 2 Samuel 14:19
  109. 2 Samuel 14:20
  110. 2 Samuel 14:22
  111. 2 Samuel 15:15
  112. 2 Samuel 15:21
  113. 2 Samuel 15:21
  114. 2 Samuel 16:4
  115. 2 Samuel 16:9
  116. 2 Samuel 18:28
  117. 2 Samuel 18:31
  118. 2 Samuel 18:32
  119. 2 Samuel 19:19
  120. 2 Samuel 19:19
  121. 2 Samuel 19:20
  122. 2 Samuel 19:26
  123. 2 Samuel 19: 27
  124. 2 Samuel 19:27
  125. 2 Samuel 19:28
  126. 2 Samuel 19:30
  127. 2 Samuel 19:35
  128. 2 Samuel 19:37
  129. 2 Samuel 24:3
  130. 2 Samuel 24:3
  131. 2 Samuel 24:21
  132. 2 Samuel 24:22
  133. 1 Kings 1:2
  134. 1 Kings 1:2
  135. 1 Kings 1:13
  136. 1 Kings 1:17
  137. 1 Kings 1:18
  138. 1 Kings 1:20
  139. 1 Kings 1:20
  140. 1 Kings 1:21
  141. 1 Kings 1:24
  142. 1 Kings 1:27
  143. 1 Kings 1:27
  144. 1 Kings 1:31
  145. 1 Kings 1:36
  146. 1 Kings 1:37
  147. 1 Kings 1:37
  148. 1 Kings 2:38
  149. 1 Kings 3:17
  150. 1 Kings 3:26
  151. 1 Kings 18:7
  152. 1 Kings 18:10
  153. 1 Kings 18:13
  154. 1 Kings 20:4
  155. 1 Kings 20:9
  156. 2 Kings 2:19
  157. 2 Kings 4:16
  158. 2 Kings 4:28
  159. 2 Kings 5:3
  160. 2 Kings 5:18
  161. 2 Kings 5:20
  162. 2 Kings 5:22
  163. 2 Kings 6:5
  164. 2 Kings 6:12
  165. 2 Kings 6:15
  166. 2 Kings 6:26
  167. 2 Kings 8:5
  168. 2 Kings 8:12
  169. 2 Kings 10:9
  170. 2 Kings 18:23
  171. 2 Kings 18:24
  172. 2 Kings 18:27
  173. 1 Chronicles 21:3
  174. 1 Chronicles 21:3
  175. 1 Chronicles 21:3
  176. 1 Chronicles 21:23
  177. 2 Chronicles 2:14
  178. 2 Chronicles 2:15
  179. Psalm 110:1
  180. Isaiah 36:8
  181. Isaiah 36:9
  182. Isaiah 36:12
  183. Jeremiah 37:20
  184. Jeremiah 38:9
  185. Daniel 1:10
  186. Daniel 10:16
  187. Daniel 10:17
  188. Daniel 10:17
  189. Daniel 10: 19
  190. Daniel 12:8
  191. Zechariah 1:9
  192. Zechariah 4:4
  193. Zechariah 4:5
  194. Zechariah 4:13
  195. Zechariah 6:4
 

Matthias

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Psalm 110:1 “Yahweh says to my lord,” not “Yahweh says to my Yahweh”.
 

heartwashed

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I would only point out that YHWH (the Father) is the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

There is only one Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:5).

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in the Trinity.
 
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APAK

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I would only point out that YHWH (the Father) is the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

There is only one Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:5).

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in the Trinity.
Welcome to this site and now I write also because you have really confused me by your statement.

You are a trinitarian and yet you actually believe that the Father of Jesus is the only one God, or LORD, preferred YHWH.

How do you reconcile this confession of belief with your doctrine? How can you?!
 
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heartwashed

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Welcome to this site and now I write also because you have really confused me by your statement.

You are a trinitarian and get you actually believe that the Father of Jesus is the only one God, or LORD, preferred YHWH.

How do you reconcile this confession of belief with your doctrine? How can you?!

I believe that God is one Spirit / essence...

And that that Spirit / essence, who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15) descended into time in order to take on an added nature of human flesh,

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Jesus, being God, is that Spirit (John 4:24) come in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

For there is one Spirit according to holy scripture (Ephesians 4:4).

The Father and the Son being distinct from each other in that the Father is a Spirit without flesh; while the Son is the same Spirit come in human flesh; with all of the additions to His personality that might come from being human!
 

APAK

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I believe that God is one Spirit / essence...

And that that Spirit / essence, who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15) descended into time in order to take on an added nature of human flesh,

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Jesus, being God, is that Spirit (John 4:24) come in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

For there is one Spirit according to holy scripture (Ephesians 4:4).

The Father and the Son being distinct from each other in that the Father is a Spirit without flesh; while the Son is the same Spirit come in human flesh; with all of the additions to His personality that might come from being human!
Fascinating at this point and a few Binitarians on this site speak as you do...

I believe at this point this is a newer trinitarian slant of the 3 persons in one g paradigm. I'm recently starting to hear this newer version of Trinitarianism, imo.

Yes I'm of the Biblical Unitarian Monotheism crowd.

The one word and spirit have only one source that can be shared as they have been with the Son and the believer. And therefore the Son is never or not the source of the one Spirit, and he is not therefore YHWH of any kind. The Father is not just YHWH, he is the source of all spirits of his one Spirit that he shares and integrates into his creation.

It is the Son being equated to the Father that is non-biblical, and the flaw in your belief as I see it.
They do not strictly speaking co-share the Holy Spirit, as the HS is of the Father only and he shares it with his Son. That is the mechanics of this sharing..

So I take it you still believe in the so-called incarnation in place of the Biblical creation of a human man? A little off your topic although interesting to hear.

John 4:24 is all about the one God, the Father only, that does not include his Son Yahshua the human spirit and person as well....I see you have misinterpreted this scripture completely to make the Son and Father sharing a co-joined Spirit that is sourced only from the Father..

If you also quoted verse 23 you might have gathered the local context of verse 24.

(Joh 4:23) But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.
(Joh 4:24) God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
(Joh 4:25) The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”
(Joh 4:26) Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.” (ESV)


Enjoyed this conversation with you...APAK
 
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Matthias

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I would only point out that YHWH (the Father) is the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

YHWH and Jesus, as well as others, share the title kurios. In these parallel passages of scripture, Jesus is speaking to the Lord his God, YHWH, the Father.

There is only one Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:5).

In 1 Corinthians 8:6 Paul makes a distinction between the one God and the one Lord. He’s speaking about two persons, not the Trinity. The one God is YHWH, whom you’ve rightly identified as the Father. The one Lord is Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, the Son of God.

In Ephesians 4:5 Paul is again speaking about the one Lord he spoke about in 1 Corinthians 8:6, Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, the Son of God. He isn’t speaking about the one God in this verse. Paul goes on to speak about the one God, YHWH, the Father, in the next verse.

David and Jesus both have a God. That God is YHWH. One person, the Father. They are both, by definition, unitarians.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in the Trinity.

Then your God is three persons, the Trinity. Are you of a particular denomination?

I was raised Southern Baptist and I was taught in my youth that unitarians don’t worship the God of the Bible; trinitarians do.

As strange as it may sound to you, I was taught that David worshipped the God of the Bible but I wasn’t taught that Jesus did.
 
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heartwashed

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Jesus IS the God of the Bible; why would He worship Himself?

Compare 1 Corinthians 8:6 to Matthew 11:25 and Luke 10:21 and 2 Corinthians 6:17-18.

In these latter verses the Father is the Lord but in 1 Corinthians 8:6 and in Ephesians 4:5 there is only one Lord: Jesus Christ.

There is a statement in the Trinitarian creeds that the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Ghost is Lord; yet we are forbidden by Trinitarian doctrine to say that there are three Lords.

It should be clear that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18).

Yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3). And, Jesus is the one Lord of holy scripture (1 Corinthians 8:6).
 

Matthias

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Jesus IS the God of the Bible …

Jesus is only one person. I would expect to hear a trinitarian say “The Trinity IS the God of the Bible, not “Jesus IS the God of the Bible”.

…why would He worship Himself?

He wouldn’t and didn’t. He worshipped his God, the Father, whom I maintain alone is the God of the Bible.

The God of Jesus is the God of Abraham. There is no God besides the God of Jesus and Abraham.

Compare 1 Corinthians 8:6 to Matthew 11:25 and Luke 10:21 and 2 Corinthians 6:17-18.

In these latter verses the Father is the Lord but in 1 Corinthians 8:6 and in Ephesians 4:5 there is only one Lord: Jesus Christ.

There is a statement in the Trinitarian creeds that the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Ghost is Lord; yet we are forbidden by Trinitarian doctrine to say that there are three Lords.

Jesus has a creed, but it isn’t the creed of the trinitarians.

It should be clear that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18).

Yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3). And, Jesus is the one Lord of holy scripture (1 Corinthians 8:6).

Jesus is the Lord Messiah. His God - the one God - is the Lord God.
 
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heartwashed

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Jesus is only one person. I would expect to hear a trinitarian say “The Trinity IS the God of the Bible, not “Jesus IS the God of the Bible”.

As a Trinitarian I say to you that Jesus is the God of the Bible.

He wouldn’t and didn’t. He worshipped his God, the Father, whom I maintain alone is the God of the Bible.

The God of Jesus is the God of Abraham. There is no God besides the God of Jesus and Abraham.



Jesus has a creed, but it isn’t the creed of the trinitarians.



Jesus is the Lord Messiah. His God - the one God - is the Lord God.

There is only one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6).

Therefore the Lord Messiah is the Lord God.
 

Matthias

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As a Trinitarian I say to you that Jesus is the God of the Bible.

Okay. Thanks.

When I was a trinitarian I would say that the Trinity is the God of the Bible, and Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.

As a Jewish monotheist I say to you that Jesus is a Jewish monotheist. He says to me that his God is my God.* Our God isn’t the Trinity.

There is only one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6).

Paul says there are many gods and many lords - he is talking about two categories. “yet for us” - [Christians] - “there is but one God, the Father. All things are from Him, and we exist for Him” (HCSB). The first category.

Paul comments on the Son of God when he addresses the second category.

Therefore the Lord Messiah is the Lord God.

The Lord God is his God.

Do you believe Jesus himself doesn’t have a God?

* John 20:17
 
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heartwashed

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The human Jesus has a God in the Spirit who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh; and He is that same Spirit come in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

In 1 Corinthians 8:6, Jesus is the one Lord of holy scripture...even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18).

Here, Jesus and the Father are the one Lord.

Yes, there are gods many, and lords many...

However, it does not say here that Jesus is a lord or that the Father is a god.

Jesus is the Lord (capital "L").

No one can say that except by the Spirit of truth, btw (1 Corinthians 12:3).
 
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Matthias

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The human Jesus has a God in the Spirit who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh; and He is that same Spirit come in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

In 1 Corinthians 8:6, Jesus is the one Lord of holy scripture...even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18).

Here, Jesus and the Father are the one Lord.

Yes, there are gods many, and lords many...

However, it does not say here that Jesus is a lord or that the Father is a god.

Jesus is the Lord (capital "L").

No one can say that except by the Spirit of truth, btw (1 Corinthians 12:3).

The human Jesus, you say, has a God. Who is the God of the human Jesus?
 

heartwashed

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The human Jesus isn’t a trinitarian.

I think that Jesus knows who He is (that He's God).

After all, He claimed it in John 8:58 in reference to Exodus 3:14.

And the scribes and Pharisees understood Him (John 8:59, John 10:31-33). For they picked up stones to stone Him for blasphemy.
 
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TLHKAJ

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No one can say that except by the Spirit of truth, btw (1 Corinthians 12:3).
Yes, and the word which is translated "Lord" in the original Greek means "Supreme in authority that is controller; God Lord Master Sir."

1 Corinthians 12:3
[3]Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


Greek: κύριος
Transliteration: kurios
Pronunciation: koo'-ree-os
Definition: From κῦρος kuros (supremacy);
supreme in authority that is (as noun) controller; by implication Mr . (as a respectful title): - God Lord master Sir.
KJV Usage: Lord (667x), lord (54x), master (11x), sir (6x), Sir (6x), misc (4x).
Occurs: 748
In verses: 687
 

Matthias

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I think that Jesus knows who He is (that He's God).

Jesus knows who he is and he knows who his God and the God of his followers is. Jesus is God but only in a secondary sense. His God alone is the one God.

After all, He claimed it in John 8:58 in reference to Exodus 3:14.

His claim is that he is the Messiah, not the one God.

And the scribes and Pharisees understood Him (John 8:59, John 10:31-33). For they picked up stones to stone Him for blasphemy.

The scribes and Pharisees he was speaking to didn’t believe his messianic claim.

He’s a Jew. They are Jews. They accused him of blasphemy because they thought he was saying something about his God and their God which wasn’t true. Namely, that he is the Messiah promised, raised up and sent by their God. If his claim to be the Messiah is false, then he has blasphemed God.

They were, of course, wrong.