new version of OSAS?

[Ferris Bueller]

I am sure that you don’t take that passage as saying that the salvation of Christians is by not doing such things.

You can't be saved, or be kept saved, by not doing such things, but you can't be condemned by them if you don't do them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

there is a lot of difference between the the believer and the unbeliever. Among them is in their behavior

Okay, so where's the dividing line? What behavior divides the person 'living like this' who doesn't inherit the kingdom of God, and the saved person who does inherit the kingdom of God?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Yes salvation includes us transformed and conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. And I am of the mind that it is God who will transform and will conform those being saved to the image of Jesus Christ. For it is God who saves. It is God who creates in Christ, those whom He is saving. It is God who works in them to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Tong
R3535

That is what awesome is all about.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Okay, so where's the dividing line? What behavior divides the person 'living like this' who doesn't inherit the kingdom of God, and the saved person who does inherit the kingdom of God?

Ooh, I can answer that one. Jesus is the dividing line. All things done in Him are through Him, to the glory of His name, forever and forever. Amen and Hallelujah!

 

[michaelvpardo]

I'll let him say that for himself. All I know is the works that the Bible talks about that Christians are to do are the commands of the law. Some don't require any literal action on our part anymore, but there are those that do and we uphold them through our faith expressing itself through love. Love your neighbor as yourself being the "royal law found in scripture".

Misses the mark, misses Christ.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Do you honestly believe you do not need to repent in order to be saved?
.

I’ve said it many times——- Repentance is mandantory! It just ain’t what most people think it is....it’s not Turning “FROM “ sins......it’s Turning “ TO” God as a Lost Sinner That MUST have A Savior....

A picture of the Repentance That Saves is Found in the story of the wicked Tax Collector who Turns to God with a Contrite Heart and cries out, “ Lord, have Mercy on me, a Sinner”.....Label that what you will—— I label it “Repentance” —— it will get you Saved....it worked for me ....I Guarantee it will work for you...

 

[michaelvpardo]

Right. But you can't see that it doesn't have to only mean what you say it means. I'm not changing a single word of it. You're adding Osas bias to it and taking it to mean that a person believes and then never stops obeying Christ as a disciple. I simply read it and see that it says that after someone believes and they continue in the word that means they're a disciple of Christ. Obviously, if someone believes and then doesn't continue in the teachings of Christ beyond when they believed they aren't a disciple of Christ.

Almost, they never were a disciple of Christ. You must be born again. Jesus is the last Adam, God will not allow us to do what the first Son of God did and He is with us to instruct us, and in us to keep us. Put away doubts and trust His voice. Do not blaspheme His Spirit when He speaks, but listen to the voice of our God.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yet, even the dictionary defines it as being sorry for our sin.

Several of those things on your list are simply someone changing definitions. Those who want to believe such changed definitions, will, because it is just what they want to hear, but I have to stick with reality, and won't even argue such things except to say, we can make anything true in our minds that we wish to make true by changing definitions.

I would question how much the writers of dictionaries understand the Ways Of God

Regardless, I think for our purposes we need to be more concerned about the Greek words that were translated to “ Repentance” by the translators....

“Metanoia” is the Greek Word That the translators chose to say meant “ repent” .....It’s a fact that “ metanoia” does NOT mean “ repent from sins” . The word literally means “ mind-change” .....The Unbeliever needs to “ change his mind “ about Jesus —— if you think He never existed.....if you think that “ maybe” He existed.....if you think that He was a man that was just a “ good and wise man”, But NOT the Savior Of Mankind who was God in the Flesh —— you had better “ change your mind” about that and become a Believer That Jesus was who He said He was....One can try to “ repent “ by being sorry for sins, having remorse for sins, doing your best to abandon sins or whatever else you want to do with them.....if you don’t believe that Jesus “ died” for those and that He rose from the Grave, you may have become more “ moral” , but you never became Saved.....

 

[Cooper]

I’ve said it many times——- Repentance is mandantory! It just ain’t what most people think it is....it’s not Turning “FROM “ sins......it’s Turning “ TO” God as a Lost Sinner That MUST have A Savior....

A picture of the Repentance That Saves is Found in the story of the wicked Tax Collector who TUrns to God with a Contrite Heart and cries out, “ Lord, have Mercy on me, a Sinner”.....Label that what you will—— I label it “Repentance” —— it will get you Saved....it worked for me ....I Guarantee it will work for you...

Turning to God to save you from your sins is not repentance. That is like a drowning person reaching out to grab hold of a lifebelt. They are doing it for their own preservation, for their own benefit. Imagine if you will, in a quiet moment when you reflect back on your life, as with all of us, there will be things you did, that you are not proud of. The sort of things you wouldn't like people to know about. Do you feel ashamed, do you wish you had never done those things? It is too late now to change them. They cannot be undone. How do you feel about it now, years later? Do you laugh when you remember or are you sorry for hurting them either physically or emotionally, and would you do those same things again?

Now tell me in your own words what you think it means to repent of those things. This page may provide food for thought.

Repentance - Wikipedia
.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

...repentance from dead works... Hebrews 6:1

...turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins... Acts 26:18​

Repenting from sin does not earn salvation, but you do have to do that to be saved. And that doesn't mean be perfect to be saved, either. It means renounce sin and show that change of mind about your sin by not purposely sinning—turn from it. Your success in that decision will come as you grow in your faith in Christ. But, surely, what will end when you repent, if you've repented, is you purposely choosing to sin, because you've changed your mind about that. What we are to purposely do is act in a way that lines up with our repentance from sin...

...they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds worthy of their repentance. Acts 26:20​

To me, this reasoning would show that Salvation is not a “ GIFT”——- it’s a “TRADE”....

It’s like saying, “ Okay, God.... lets make a deal .....if you promise to save me, I’ll promise not to sin on purpose ever again!”

That “ sounds” logical....sounds like a “ fair” trade-off......but God is not bestowing a “ tit- for-tat” to get us Saved....He is bestowing “ GRACE” , the TOTAL FORGIVENESS from ALL sins — sins done unknowingly or sins done on purpose —- all based on the Shed Blood Of Jesus, the Finished Work Of The Cross....

Once Saved, their should be a Natural Revulsion towards Sin and Sinning as God Transforms us from the inside out..... it is a Result Of Salvation —- NOT in any way the CAUSE of it.....to be Saved all you have to do is to do what God “ said” to do—— BELIEVE on the One that He sent.....For Salvation, it’s HIM..... NOT “ Me and Him” ......” Nothing But The Blood” means NOTHING .....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

How does one raise up a fake and insincere believer?

And it seems to be that you forget what the passage says what happens to the one who builds with hay, straw and wood. Is he one who is a laborer for building up fake and insincere believers?

Tong
R3530

Here is a good example to differentiate between the two types of “ builders”.....

Hay, wood or stubble would be Religious Acts ....” Good” stuff done by a Confused man who thinks doing certain tasks will either Get him Saved, or Keep Him Saved....like a man who Tithes because he feels compelled to or does it and makes sure that everybody Knows about it....The man who Tithes because he “ wants” to and does it in secret—- That Guy has Works that will be rewarded....they withstood the Fire.....

 

[Corlove13]

...repentance from dead works... Hebrews 6:1

I was just throwing a definition out there of repentance: Here is another

Repentance involves recognizing that you have thought wrongly in the past and determining to think rightly in the future.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

As long as the servant believes and obeys the truth he won't go into the fire. Those he instructs may go into the fire, though, if they do not obey the truth taught to them, or if the servant is a well meaning but misguided servant who teaches them things that they then follow but which results in them being hay, wood, and stubble at the judgment. Type 2 Osas is a perfect example of that.

( Note to Self ) .....see that OSAS 3.0 ( postponed due to motor- cycle crash) addresses this issue!

 

[Corlove13]

Yes salvation includes us transformed and conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. And I am of the mind that it is God who will transform and will conform those being saved to the image of Jesus Christ. For it is God who saves. It is God who creates in Christ, those whom He is saving. It is God who works in them to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Tong
R3535

It is one of the ways on that list of 2...because you can't come to see that you play apart in your growth..yet it is written in so many places. But that's how I thought in the past....but I know better.

You say one thing, and then you go back to the same thinking...and the issue is the box...so destroy the box and you have nothing left but to see clear......read EPHESIANS 2: around 8 ...and please tell me what one is saved from? And do not add anything to it....

Because with that doctrine it skips phases...
One like regeneration....being born from above, and its skips entering into life now in the presence of God....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Turning to God to save you from your sins is not repentance. That is like a drowning person reaching out to grab hold of a lifebelt. They are doing it for their own preservation, for their own benefit. Imagine if you will, in a quiet moment when you reflect back on your life, as with all of us, there will be things you did, that you are not proud of. The sort of things you wouldn't like people to know about. Do you feel ashamed, do you wish you had never done those things? It is too late now to change them. They cannot be undone. How do you feel about it now, years later? Do you laugh when you remember or are you sorry for hurting them either physically or emotionally, and would you do those same things again?

Now tell me in your own words what you think it means to repent of those things. This page may provide food for thought.

Repentance - Wikipedia
.

I could fill Madison Square Garden with the things that I regret and feel remorse for ....I feel so bad about these things now that I am “ a New Creation” That I will go out of my way to not do them again....before I got Saved, I did not really give a hoot-in- Hell about the shameful and sinful things I did in my life...

All of this remorse did not GET me Saved, nor does it KEEP me Saved....I Rested in Paul’s Gospel Found In 1Cor15:1-4.....THAT is what got “ me” Saved —-Plus anybody else that ever got Saved....
So therefore , I must ask...what is your point?

 

[TheslightestID]

Metanoia” is the Greek Word That the translators chose to say meant “ repent” .....It’s a fact that “ metanoia” does NOT mean “ repent from sins” . The word literally means “ mind-change” .....The Unbeliever needs to “ change his mind “ about Jesus

And why does "metanoia:" not mean to change ones mind about sin? if, as you say, the fact is that it means chance one's mind about Jesus, please substantiate that so-called fact... show me where you got that interpretation from?

You, and those on your end of this are now making words mean what you choose for them to mean. There is absoluely no reason why the term would not mean to change our mind about sin, none whatsoever, and you have given us no reason to believe it means to change our mind about Jesus.

You all are writing your own bible.

 

[TheslightestID]

All of this remorse did not GET me Saved, nor does it KEEP me Saved.

Acts 3:19
New International Version
19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

And there are plenty more where that came from. We could put the truth right here in front of you till the cows come home, but if you don't want to see it, you will not.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I’d say a misuse of the passage there.

How do you build on the foundation, so that what you build with, may be burned but not you?

Christ is the foundation of the building of God. And all the people of God are built on top of him.

...fellow citizens with the saints and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. Ephesians 2:19-20

...you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house... 1 Peter 2:5
​

But there is falseness planted and built into the field and building of God, the result of fake and ineffective, or inadequate gospel messages, and ungodly teachings.

...at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness. And they will throw them into the fiery furnace... Matthew 13:40-42
​

Now if any of this falseness in the kingdom that gets burned up at the end of the age is the result of your labor in the field and building of God you yourself may be saved (assuming you weren't actually tearing down the temple of God), but those people you ministered to who were found to be false and not able to withstand fire won't be around to be your crown of reward in the kingdom. You'll be there, but your work, the result of your labor, won't be. Sorry. No crown of joy, glory, and boasting for the labor of the co-worker of God that produced no lasting results. So be careful how you build!

As I said, there is a misuse of the passage in 1 Cor.3:9-15

9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

And the misuse is what makes it difficult to answer clearly, simple questions such as “How do you build on the foundation, so that what you build with, may be burned but not you?”

There is no issue that people are built on top of Christ, who is the foundation of God’s building, God’s building being made up of saved people, people God created in Christ. So, you can save your time bringing that up every time.

Then you pointed out “But there is falseness planted and built into the field and building of God, the result of fake and ineffective, or inadequate gospel messages, and ungodly teachings.”, which is totally different from people. See?

Then you continue to develop what different matter you brought up, saying “Now if any of this falseness in the kingdom that gets burned up at the end of the age is the result of your labor in the field and building of God…”. And likewise, this makes quite a mess. It’s either people or falseness. Mixing them up makes a mess of your take of the passage.

For in the misuse of the passage, it seems to be that, if you taught people something that is erroneous and false, or of falseness, and they believed you, they get to suffer fire by believing what falseness that you taught, while you only get not to have rewards and escape to suffer fire. See?

Misuse of said passage truly makes it difficult to answer clearly, the simple question “How do you build on the foundation, so that what you build with, may be burned but not you?”

Tong
R3536

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Acts 3:19
New International Version
19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

And there are plenty more where that came from. We could put the truth right here in front of you till the cows come home, but if you don't want to see it, you will not.

And I feel exactly the same way that you do.....so now what?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
The point is that, that scriptures was not given to all the peoples of the world, but to the covenant people then, the children of Israel that is.

The people that God brought out of Egypt was a "mixed multitude" Exodus 12:38

The gentiles have always been among God's covenant people. They just had to be circumcised to participate along with native Israelites in the covenant Exodus 12:48-49.

In that sense, yes. But it does not take away the truth that it is with the children of Israel that God made a covenant with whose mediator was Moses. And that, what is said in those scriptures does not go out to those who are not in covenant with God whose mediator was Moses.

Tong
R3537