Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[atpollard]

Why are told to PERSEVERE if we cannot backslide?
.

Why did Paul expel the sinning brother from the body of believers?
Was it because he had fallen from grace and was now eternally damned with no expectation of hope?
(1 Corinthians 5)

 

[atpollard]

My biggest gripe, not just with Calvinists, but Arminians too, and Catholics...just about everybody is their belief that grace is unmerited favor. The meaning is supernatural, and much more than what most people even dream of. But it is right there in scripture if they study.

I think “unmerited favor” comes from Romans 4.

 

[Cooper]

Why did Paul expel the sinning brother from the body of believers?
Was it because he had fallen from grace and was now eternally damned with no expectation of hope?
(1 Corinthians 5)

Look. Stop everybody arguing and live according to scripture. We are to persevere with the Lord to the end of our days. Get used to it.

 

[Cooper]

Deserve and merited is not the same.

Deserving is owed payment. Unmerited is having no merit at all, nothing to bestow favor upon.

They are complete opposites. You see only one or the other in your humanist mind, that does not know the true things of God by Scripture.

Merited favor is granting favor because of some word or deed. It was given because of something on the part of the one receiving.

Noah did not find grace in God's sight by doing nothing. And no one finds salvation by grace by believing nothing.

Even as we are part of the body of Christ, so we have our part in salvation by grace, and the covenant of Jesus' blood, which is to believe from the heart. Not to believe we are saved no matter what, which is not Scripture, but to believe Jesus and to do His will no matter what, which is Scripture.

Once again, you are giving humanistic ideas for God, which Scripture does not. Show the Scripture of unmerited favor and unconditional love of God, where there is no IF involved.

Otherwise, you are left with your opinion of God and of yourself.

We do not deserve God's grace, neither do we merit it sinners that we are. Let us simply praise God for His love toward us, wretches that we are.
.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think “unmerited favor” comes from Romans 4.

Not if you are talking about Abraham. It was His trusting God and His obedience that was imputed as righteousness.

That was before grace. What "favor" of God's would you think is His Grace. Look at 2 Peter 1:2-4

 

[Daniel Veler]

I don't continue down the road of a one-sided argument.

Your doctrine teaches you that we don't keep ourselves, and I showed you Scripture proving it false.

Respond to that, and then we can go on to your newest question.

No it’s not my doctrine but God’s. You mixed human works into it. By not knowing that faith is a gift from Godoy missed the mark.

 

[marks]

Same for us. We have not watched TV for years. Although a member here, Don't participate in the "social" sites. Restaurants, fast food, maybe a couple times a year. Not a crowd fan. Yet well aware of how fast crazy the world is spinning.

From one of my faves . . .

"Content to let the world go by, to know no gain or loss"

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Sounds good. (But I was being facetious about the jelly jar)

A testament is of two, not one. God enjoined the testament unto the believer.

The eternal security type who say they have no part in keeping themselves, act as if they have no practical part in the covenant enjoined unto them.

I remember living on the edge of a small town in California on a very large plot of land. My stepfather grew everything in the way of fruit or vegetable as well as having, chickens, turkeys, pigeons and rabbits. My mother prepared and canned all of the plant types so that even during the off seasons we had plenty of vegetables and fruits available. She was very careful with the canning for a failure to properly seal one of those glass jars would result in spoiled inedible contents. In spite of her best efforts once in a while when I went out to the storage part of our garage to get her a jar of fruit or vegetable something had caused a seal to be broken. At the top of the jar usually mold of some kind had developed living off the contents. Throw away the contents, wash out the jar and reuse the jar next time around... unless of course the jar was broken.

 

[TEXBOW]

Luke 15:1-7. The parable of the lost sheep. One lone sheep left the flock and became lost but the shepherd left his flock to go find it and return it to the flock saving it from being lost. The parable is not about the shepherd leaving the flock to bring one new sheep into the flock but to return a lost sheep. The sheep that hear his voice, that follow him have the promises of his eternal protection as long as they remain in the flock and do not get lost. Peter's Epistle focuses on the suffering of Christians and in 1 Peter 2:25 "For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls"

God warns us over 60 times in the scriptures to be aware of false prophets and many of these warnings are to Christians. If we have eternal security what is the risk of these false prophets?

Whosoever is mentioned in the Bible 181 times. Again it's clear that we have a choice.

 

[amadeus]

Luke 15:1-7. The parable of the lost sheep. One lone sheep left the flock and became lost but the shepherd left his flock to go find it and return it to the flock saving it from being lost. The parable is not about the shepherd leaving the flock to bring one new sheep into the flock but to return a lost sheep. The sheep that hear his voice, that follow him have the promises of his eternal protection as long as they remain in the flock and do not get lost. Peter's Epistle focuses on the suffering of Christians and in 1 Peter 2:25 "For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls"

God warns us over 60 times in the scriptures to be aware of false prophets and many of these warnings are to Christians. If we have eternal security what is the risk of these false prophets?

Whosoever is mentioned in the Bible 181 times. Again it's clear that we have a choice.

Amen!
And...welcome to the forum, friend!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Why are told to PERSEVERE if we cannot backslide?
.

Why did Paul expel the sinning brother from the body of believers?
Was it because he had fallen from grace and was now eternally damned with no expectation of hope?

1Co 5:1-5
"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as
is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this
deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but
present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him
that hath so done this deed, In The Name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, when ye
are gathered together, and my spirit, with The Power of our LORD JESUS CHRIST,
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,..."

{eternally damned with no expectation of hope? = NO, read ALL Of It!}:

"...that the spirit may be saved in The Day Of The LORD JESUS!"

And, Also COMPARE It To The {JUDGMENT} Day!:

1Co 3:14-15
"If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive
a reward..." {those who FAITHFULLY "run the GRACE race" (persevere?)}

{those UNfaithful who FAIL to "run the GRACE race" (backslide?)}
"...If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but
he himself Shall Be SAVED; yet so as by fire."
+
Also, Compare ALL Scripture On God's {NO Mistake} Doctrine!:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Salvation is 100 Percent Free, But Eternal Rewards
{incorruptible crown/reigning With HIM!} are 100 percent Earned!

be Richly Encouraged, enlightened, exhorted, and edified!
God's Simple Will

 

[Enoch111]

It was His trusting God and His obedience that was imputed as righteousness.

FALSE. Regarding Abraham, there is nothing said about "his obedience" in these passages. It is solely his faith:

Genesis 15:6 -- And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Romans 4:3-5,23,24 -- For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness... Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Galatians 3:6-9 -- Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

In spite of all these passages, you have tried to manufacture "another gospel". That is a very serious matter according to Galatians 1.

 

[Enoch111]

Unless someone breaks the seal prematurely.

Seriously? God seals and humans can "break" that seal? Where are all thse bizarre "gospels" coming from in these last days?

 

[Cooper]

FALSE. Regarding Abraham, there is nothing said about "his obedience" in these passages. It is solely his faith:

Genesis 15:6 -- And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Romans 4:3-5,23,24 -- For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness... Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Galatians 3:6-9 -- Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

In spite of all these passages, you have tried to manufacture "another gospel". That is a very serious matter according to Galatians 1.

The result of Abraham's faith was what?
.

 

[Cooper]

1Co 5:1-5
"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as
is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this
deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but
present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him
that hath so done this deed, In The Name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, when ye
are gathered together, and my spirit, with The Power of our LORD JESUS CHRIST,
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,..."

{eternally damned with no expectation of hope? = NO, read ALL Of It!}:

"...that the spirit may be saved in The Day Of The LORD JESUS!"

And, Also COMPARE It To The {JUDGMENT} Day!:

1Co 3:14-15
"If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive
a reward..." {those who FAITHFULLY "run the GRACE race" (persevere?)}

{those UNfaithful who FAIL to "run the GRACE race" (backslide?)}
"...If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but
he himself Shall Be SAVED; yet so as by fire."
+
Also, Compare ALL Scripture On God's {NO Mistake} Doctrine!:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Salvation is 100 Percent Free, But Eternal Rewards
{incorruptible crown/reigning With HIM!} are 100 percent Earned!

be Richly Encouraged, enlightened, exhorted, and edified!
God's Simple Will

There is no such thing as a "grace race." The Grace is all God's, and HE is not racing anyone, anywhere. Neither does God need to persevere, He is there already, He is the provider of grace, waiting for us at the end of the road. It is we who need to persevere as we walk life's rocky road that God in his grace has provided so that we may walk in it.
.

 

[Cooper]

God warns us over 60 times in the scriptures to be aware of false prophets and many of these warnings are to Christians. If we have eternal security what is the risk of these false prophets?

Whosoever is mentioned in the Bible 181 times. Again it's clear that we have a choice.

You hit the nail on the head when you speak of choice. Our free will allows us to make choices all along life's road as we navigate every twist and turn. It is a boulder strewn path we walk. Never should we take our eyes off Jesus or disaster may befall us.
.

 

[amadeus]

Seriously? God seals and humans can "break" that seal? Where are all thse bizarre "gospels" coming from in these last days?

Bizarre? It was bizarre that Adam and Eve would have disobeyed God when they had so much! It was bizarre that the 600,000 saved from slavery in Egypt after seeing so many miracles worked for them would repeatedly murmur against Moses and God! It was bizarre that Saul God's anointed king of Israel would act so selfishly when he had been so blessed! It was bizarre that any one having witnessed what Judas Iscariot witnessed would have betrayed the Messiah!

It is has been and is bizarre that so many over the centuries who had witnessed the wonders of God and, yes, even the love of God could have gone against Him... but they have. As the hedge of protection of church goers has been weakened and seemingly is being removed in places, today, it is not God who is moving away removing His covering. Rather it is, I believe, many of those who have often called themselves believers who are breaking their own seals. Is the pain too much or is even the thought of so much pain too much? O Lord should we cry that You remove this cup?

"Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:38-39

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

 

[Enoch111]

The result of Abraham's faith was what?

Are you not familiar with the term "imputed righteousness"? See Romans 4.

 

[MyLordisGod]

Bizarre? It was bizarre that Adam and Eve would have disobeyed God when they had so much! It was bizarre that the 600,000 saved from slavery in Egypt after seeing so many miracles worked for them would repeatedly murmur against Moses and God! It was bizarre that Saul God's anointed king of Israel would act so selfishly when he had been so blessed! It was bizarre that any one having witnessed what Judas Iscariot witnessed would have betrayed the Messiah!

It is has been and is bizarre that so many over the centuries who had witnessed the wonders of God and, yes, even the love of God could have gone against Him... but they have. As the hedge of protection of church goers has been weakened and seemingly is being removed in places, today, it is not God who is moving away removing His covering. Rather it is, I believe, many of those who have often called themselves believers who are breaking their own seals. Is the pain too much or is even the thought of so much pain too much? O Lord should we cry that You remove this cup?

"Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:38-39

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

Do you find it bizarre that even knowing all that you know about these things
you have stated and reading the bible over and over and asking the eternal living God
everyday for something...you still disobey Him?

 

[amadeus]

Do you find it bizarre that even knowing all that you know about these things
you have stated and reading the bible over and over and asking the eternal living God
everyday for something...you still disobey Him?

I have by the Spirit of God overcome many things, but while any dark places remain within me or any beasts in me have not been completely killed, there remains work to be done. It is work which alone no man can do. It is however also work that God who can will only do when He is invited in to do so. For this reason God inspired Apostle Paul to write these words:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 2:19

When a person who has the Spirit of God with himself quenched the Spirit, he limits God's ability to work. God gave us the authority to let Him in... or to stop Him from entering into us to do the work so necessary in each of us so we might overcome the world as Jesus did.

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

And the world which Jesus overcame and which we are by the Spirit in us are to overcome... is not planet Earth, the world of ourself.... for me the world of Amadeus:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:16-17