Yet you have nonetheless created your own map, with how things fit together, have you not?It isn't a matter of creating a prophetic map, replete with various Scriptures fitting in here or there.
Much love!
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Yet you have nonetheless created your own map, with how things fit together, have you not?It isn't a matter of creating a prophetic map, replete with various Scriptures fitting in here or there.
So then the sheep/goats is more parable to you? Is that the idea?
Much love!
For myself, I look to the details, paying attention to them all. I think that will yield significant differences in our conclusions. As we've been seeing.Generally speaking, all the references to Christ's Coming portray people in either of two camps, either saved or not.
So, I see this as, Jesus comes in power and glory, and sends His angels to gather the chosen. Then Jesus takes His throne of glory, and the nations are gathered and separated according to how they treated Jesus' brothers, the Jews. I see this clearly laid out in the details of the passage, and also supported in the OT prophecies, such as,No, it's just a very general statement of what will happen, rather than a detailed explanation. Christ will set up his Kingdom, and those who had lived, whether good or bad, will be appropriately placed, either in his Kingdom or outside of it.
So, I see this as, Jesus comes in power and glory, and sends His angels to gather the chosen. Then Jesus takes His throne of glory, and the nations are gathered and separated according to how they treated Jesus' brothers, the Jews. I see this clearly laid out in the details of the passage, and also supported in the OT prophecies, such as,
Joel 3:1-2 KJV
1) For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
"plead" there is to enter a judgment.
This describes the same events.
Much love!
If I had a party for my kids, it would be exclusive to their friends, but still would not be a "secret party!" There is no secrecy with Christ's Coming for the Church. It is plainly taught in the Gospel throughout the world. The world simply doesn't choose to believe it.
So, as un-secret as it is, it will come as a surprise to the unbelieving, wicked world when it comes, because judgment will suddenly fall upon them. I'm sure we agree on this much.
But I find the Rapture of the Church and the 2nd Coming to be synonymous, with no biblical reason to separate them. They all use the same language and refer to the same sources. To separate them requires the imposition of a strange theology that isn't even in the Bible.
Paul made it clear that the idea of an imminent or immanent Rapture is false doctrine. Antichrist, and antichrists, must precede the universal appearance of Christ to this world. He will come both to save his people, the Church, and to judge the world that is in full-scale rebellion against him.
Matthew 24 and Luke 21 seem to show that the great tribulation involves a Jewish remnant after the church has gone. The background to Matthew 24 is strongly Jewish.In my experience with pre-trib doctrine those who cling to it do so without examination of all scriptures that clearly oppose it. They cling to Pastors, Books, Churches and the Majority as justification and security.
After all - why would so many Christians and 'Renown' Pastors and Bible Universities and Bible 'Scholars' and Doctorates of Divinity (lol) and Churches believe in it if it were not true???
And endless confusion results.A good question to ask about Bible passages and entities (1 Cor. 10.32), to whom does a particular stage of the Lord's coming refer? If one does not clearly distinguish between Israel and the church, then naturally there may be a tendency to assume all references to aspects of the coming refer to the same entity.
A good question to ask about Bible passages and entities (1 Cor. 10.32), to whom does a particular stage of the Lord's coming refer? If one does not clearly distinguish between Israel and the church, then naturally there may be a tendency to assume all references to aspects of the coming refer to the same entity.
Not necessarily. All you have to do is compare what happens at the Rapture (before the Second Coming of Christ) and what happens AFTER the Second Coming to see that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.Anyone who says Christ is referring to the nation Israel in Matt 24:29 is not only wrong but lying whether intentionally or not.
Not necessarily. All you have to do is compare what happens at the Rapture (before the Second Coming of Christ) and what happens AFTER the Second Coming to see that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.
So let's take a careful and close look at what is stated in Matthew 24:31 (not 29): And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
But this is not what happens at the Resurrection/Rapture. Christ (the divine Bridegroom) comes PERSONALLY for His saints (His Church is His Bride) to take them back to His home in Heaven: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Thess 4:16).
Also, there is no mention of the dead in Christ being resurrected in Matthew 24. Why? Because Jesus was clearly not referring to the Rapture.
So now you have a real dilemma on your hands. You can either say you misspoke, or you can go on believing what is false. Also, the term "elect" can apply to either redeemed Israel or the Church, depending on the context. In Matthew 24, the elect cannot be the Church.
There's a good one to remember!Do not be deceived into the trap of pride by "thinking more highly of ourselves than we are permitted" Romans 12:3
Matthew 24 and Luke 21 seem to show that the great tribulation involves a Jewish remnant after the church has gone. The background to Matthew 24 is strongly Jewish.
1 Thess. 4 - as John 1 Cor. 11.26 - is talking about the church.The deal is how Luke 21, Matthew 24 and 2 Thessalonians 2 dovetail with each other - all three accounts have the day of the Lord, the second coming of Christ, the son of perdition/abomination of desolation, and then rapture.
And 2 Thessalonians 1 unequivocally has the second coming of Jesus being part of the day of the lord, then next chapter states we won’t be gathered together with Him at His coming (at the day of the lord), until the son of perdition is revealed.
Because of 2 Thessalonians 1, it can’t be claimed that Paul is talking about two separate events of the second coming and the day of the lord in 2 Thessalonians 2 - both events occur simultaneously, making 2 Thessalonians 2 into proof of the mid trib rapture, since it can’t occur UNTIL the mid trib point event of the son of perdition revealing himself in the temple.
Even Zechariah 14 has the day of the lord in verse 1, followed by the coming of the Lord with all the saints in verse 5, confirming the link between the two.
In fact Zechariah 14 strongly suggests that the rapture of the saints occurs as Jesus is returning to mount olive - the very place Jesus ascended from, that the angel said Jesus would return too, in the same manner He ascended.
Not necessarily. All you have to do is compare what happens at the Rapture (before the Second Coming of Christ) and what happens AFTER the Second Coming to see that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.
So let's take a careful and close look at what is stated in Matthew 24:31 (not 29): And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
But this is not what happens at the Resurrection/Rapture. Christ (the divine Bridegroom) comes PERSONALLY for His saints (His Church is His Bride) to take them back to His home in Heaven: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Thess 4:16).
Also, there is no mention of the dead in Christ being resurrected in Matthew 24. Why? Because Jesus was clearly not referring to the Rapture.
So now you have a real dilemma on your hands. You can either say you misspoke, or you can go on believing what is false. Also, the term "elect" can apply to either redeemed Israel or the Church, depending on the context. In Matthew 24, the elect cannot be the Church.