Is pre-tribulation rapture a doctrine of demons?

[Mantis]

I am really starting to wonder if the pre-tribulation rapture is a doctrine of demons. It sounds wonderful but in reality I think it is a stretch to conclude that there will be a pre-trib rapture from scripture. Yet it is taught with confidence that it is truth. If it is a false teaching that Timothy warns about, many people will be devastated when they are not raptured before the poop hits the fan. I am not worried as I am sure God will protect us but if I spend my days attending a church that teaches this am I just itching my ears? I want truth, I can handle the truth.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I am really starting to wonder if the pre-tribulation rapture is a doctrine of demons. It sounds wonderful but in reality I think it is a stretch to conclude that there will be a pre-trib rapture from scripture. Yet it is taught with confidence that it is truth. If it is a false teaching that Timothy warns about, many people will be devastated when they are not raptured before the poop hits the fan. I am not worried as I am sure God will protect us but if I spend my days attending a church that teaches this am I just itching my ears? I want truth, I can handle the truth.

I've gone through this for many years now. I was raised in a church that was Amil Postrib, but was never the wiser--main focus was justification by faith alone. Then I committed my life to Christ and hung out with Pretribbers, adopting their position--but never studied it. I like prophecy, but didn't study any more than Israel's future salvation.

My brother convinced me to memorize Scriptures. I memorized 2 Thes and became a Postribber--that's what the book taught! I moved to S. CA where Chuck Smith's Pretrib dominated in the area. I doubted my Postrib, but went to my local church's bookstore. A stranger walked up and asked me what I was looking for, and then pointed me to 2 books, 1 by Ladd and 1 by Gundry--classic Postrib works. But this church in S. CA that I attended was Pretrib! The Pastor, however, welcomed me despite the fact I had a different opinion.

I became more convinced as a Postrib with further study, and discovered great leaders like Pat Robertson, Walter Martin, and Corrie ten Boom were Postribbers. I wrote Chuck Smith of my concerns, and he doubled down on Pretrib, later on even predicting Christ's imminent return by the 80s. Obviously wrong! Hal Lindsay taught a Bible Study at our church, and I wrote him, but he doubled down on his Pretrib.

I know now that some will remain Pretrib no matter what. Pride is at stake after writing books, etc. However, I'm convinced the Bible teaches explicit Postrib. And yes, if the Holy Spirit wrote this down, then it matters!

But I still attend a Pretrib church--I often doubt if I should. I've confronted my pastors, and they've refused to engage me in any discussions. It is what it is--do the best you can. I don't make disagreement over minor doctrines a matter of separation. But I do agree with you that anything the Bible teaches is important, and should be preached. If the opposition can handle you saying what you believe, there's no reason for separation.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I am really starting to wonder if the pre-tribulation rapture is a doctrine of demons. It sounds wonderful but in reality I think it is a stretch to conclude that there will be a pre-trib rapture from scripture. Yet it is taught with confidence that it is truth. If it is a false teaching that Timothy warns about, many people will be devastated when they are not raptured before the poop hits the fan. I am not worried as I am sure God will protect us but if I spend my days attending a church that teaches this am I just itching my ears? I want truth, I can handle the truth.

I'll add this. I've in the past written letters to Oral Roberts, Zola Levitt and other notables who were blatantly Pretrib. I tried to answer every claim they made from Scriptures--every one! Levitt had an associate write me on the subject, and he suggested I read Dwight Pentecost's book on the subject--a large, theological work that undoubtedly reiterates all the same Pretrib materials, because he undoubtedly reiterates Darby's beliefs and provided justification for more of the current Pretrib arguments.

I've literally tried to argue every single point made on the subject, and would love to answer every single possible argument that Pretribbers would make. The trouble is, arguments never get resolved by arguing alone. There has to be *revelation received,* along with the arguments. Reason must be coupled with a right spirit--one willing to receive what God has to say, and not necessarily what we want to believe.

When the Scriptures state in 2 Thes 2 that Jesus can't come for his Church until after the revelation--and destruction--of the Antichrist, we must have receptive spirits, and believe what is being reasonably communicated. But if we choose not to be receptive, we will always make justification for what we want to believe.

You can never get a Pretribber to give up his belief for any number of reasonable arguments if he doesn't want to believe, or if he has a stake in not believing it. May God give us all humble spirits, and obedient spirits, to incline not to our own wishes, but only to what God wishes!

We may not want to believe that Satan defeats us, or that Antichrist is given by God to defeat the saints. But quite frankly, that is what Revelation teaches, that for short duration, the Antichrist will be given to defeat the Church--not spiritually, but physically. Many of us will be martyred.

So you can see why Christians don't want to believe this. Right?

 

[Mantis]

I'll add this. I've in the past written letters to Oral Roberts, Zola Levitt and other notables who were blatantly Pretrib. I tried to answer every claim they made from Scriptures--every one! Levitt had an associate write me on the subject, and he suggested I read Dwight Pentecost's book on the subject--a large, theological work that undoubtedly reiterates all the same Pretrib materials, because he undoubtedly reiterates Darby's beliefs and provided justification for more of the current Pretrib arguments.

I've literally tried to argue every single point made on the subject, and would love to answer every single possible argument that Pretribbers would make. The trouble is, arguments never get resolved by arguing alone. There has to be *revelation received,* along with the arguments. Reason must be coupled with a right spirit--one willing to receive what God has to say, and not necessarily what we want to believe.

When the Scriptures state in 2 Thes 2 that Jesus can't come for his Church until after the revelation--and destruction--of the Antichrist, we must have receptive spirits, and believe what is being reasonably communicated. But if we choose not to be receptive, we will always make justification for what we want to believe.

You can never get a Pretribber to give up his belief for any number of reasonable arguments if he doesn't want to believe, or if he has a stake in not believing it. May God give us all humble spirits, and obedient spirits, to incline not to our own wishes, but only to what God wishes!

We may not want to believe that Satan defeats us, or that Antichrist is given by God to defeat the saints. But quite frankly, that is what Revelation teaches, that for short duration, the Antichrist will be given to defeat the Church--not spiritually, but physically. Many of us will be martyred.

So you can see why Christians don't want to believe this. Right?

Yes I agree fully. When you read it it just doesn't say there will be a pre-trib rapture. I was just thinking the other day how the ant-christ will be given the power to overcome the saints and how that will be a very hard time for us. We will go to war with the anti-christ and he will prevail. Many will think God left them behind if they hold true to pre-trib rapture.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I am really starting to wonder if the pre-tribulation rapture is a doctrine of demons. It sounds wonderful but in reality I think it is a stretch to conclude that there will be a pre-trib rapture from scripture. Yet it is taught with confidence that it is truth. If it is a false teaching that Timothy warns about, many people will be devastated when they are not raptured before the poop hits the fan. I am not worried as I am sure God will protect us but if I spend my days attending a church that teaches this am I just itching my ears? I want truth, I can handle the truth.

From what I have seen of many such people it's fear driven that gets them into swallowing the pre trib rap, all tho not all pre trib rap people are on the same band wagon as one dude I know, who is off his face and his mob who are demanding and working for the destruction of the world. so as to demanding to bring down Christ Jesus to do his bidding. mainly because he feels the world is so bad off or such a bad place. but he is a wimp and a weakling that is too shy to ever of bothered to go and work for a living and has just sat on the dole his whole life 58yo now and complains he is so hard done by, he owns a new flash car that he had to buy or be reduced the pension because he has too much money and has lived with mummy his whole life, nothing is wrong with him but he just can not handle anything that may offend his ego. he only wants to give orders but never take any at all, it's a hard life for him ? I said what about people who lived in the last 2000 years and there hardships, todays people have it so much better off that such would be unbelievable to them. we are living in the best times the worlds people have ever experienced in fact. but for only one problem and that is Sin and as we know that the wages of Sin is death.

But the churches have sat down on there arse and have not stood up against Sin and that's why the churches have failed and the majority of people have walked away, because the Churches have forgotten who Jesus Christ truly is in fact and have whored themselves to this world. so we will reap what we have sown and Nations will come crashing down, because what they have built on has no foundations worthy to stand on in any regards, morally or financial such is all is the working of degenerates.

The lowest of the low is promoted nowadays and they feel empowered by such depravity, but who stands in there way ? True Christians worthy of Jesus Christ are not allowed to have a voice, because such is Politically Incorrect, you may offend someone ! remember who Jesus offended and remember who Moses offended and who the Prophets offended, did they offend anyone ? they sure did ! why do you think that such got killed.
Stand up to any such whores (Kikes) and see what there intentions are towards such. by Kikes it means "white washed tombs" full of dead mans bones, so when one Carnal looks on that shining idolise object and touches it, only then it's that you know that such is only filth and death.
The carnal man is such a one led astray after such objects to only feed the ego, such a one is a blight and a curse to all.

The only thing that one needs is to be truly born again, second coming means nothing to such a one because such a one who is truly born again is Saved regardless because such is in the Kingdom of God and at the second coming all will be in the Kingdom of God. this world that is under Satins power will be totally exposed for what it is and defeated by the power of Jesus Christ.

 

[101G]

I am really starting to wonder if the pre-tribulation rapture is a doctrine of demons

Addressing the OP only. sometimes we look at other to see a blame, but sometimes we just might need to look in the mirror. scripture, 2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:" 2 Thessalonians 2:9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," 2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

and to make it real bad, God is the one who will choose that delusion, scripture, Isaiah 66:4 "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not."

well one is in bad shape when God choose your delusion. ...... YIKES!..... and another YIKES!.

But, that that's but with one "t"....... .. but there is hope in everthing that God do... notice in Isaiah 66:4 he said, "and will bring their fears upon them", well that's good, because, Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Mantis]

Addressing the OP only. sometimes we look at other to see a blame, but sometimes we just might need to look in the mirror. scripture, 2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:" 2 Thessalonians 2:9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," 2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

and to make it real bad, God is the one who will choose that delusion, scripture, Isaiah 66:4 "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not."

well one is in bad shape when God choose your delusion. ...... YIKES!..... and another YIKES!.

But, that that's but with one "t"....... .. but there is hope in everthing that God do... notice in Isaiah 66:4 he said, "and will bring their fears upon them", well that's good, because, Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I think those versus are for non believers. Why would God send a delusion to those who believe?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I am really starting to wonder if the pre-tribulation rapture is a doctrine of demons. It sounds wonderful but in reality I think it is a stretch to conclude that there will be a pre-trib rapture from scripture. Yet it is taught with confidence that it is truth. If it is a false teaching that Timothy warns about, many people will be devastated when they are not raptured before the poop hits the fan. I am not worried as I am sure God will protect us but if I spend my days attending a church that teaches this am I just itching my ears? I want truth, I can handle the truth.

The Pre-Tribulation teaching is so obviously a false teaching that it never ceases to amaze me how many believe this stuff.

These other false teachings prevail a lot as well:

• Once Saved Always Saved/Eternal Security.
• Loss of rewards for sins.
• Believers Continue to Sin.
• Women Pastors/Leaders.
• Immediate Appearance In heaven upon death.
• Tithing Still Mandated.

 

[101G]

I think those versus are for non believers. Why would God send a delusion to those who believe?

Nope, scripture, 2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

who is deceiving a none ... "Believer?". nope it believers.

understand something, Deuteronomy 13:1 "If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder," Deuteronomy 13:2 "And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;" Deuteronomy 13:3 "Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."

now listen, Deuteronomy 13:2 "And the sign or the wonder come to pass"..... (smile)... 2 Thessalonians 2:9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," Oh Yes, that a believer who is being deceived, as 2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means". HOW MANY MEANS? .... ANY.

now, you can believe what you want, my JOB is to tell you.....

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Nancy]

I am really starting to wonder if the pre-tribulation rapture is a doctrine of demons. It sounds wonderful but in reality I think it is a stretch to conclude that there will be a pre-trib rapture from scripture. Yet it is taught with confidence that it is truth. If it is a false teaching that Timothy warns about, many people will be devastated when they are not raptured before the poop hits the fan. I am not worried as I am sure God will protect us but if I spend my days attending a church that teaches this am I just itching my ears? I want truth, I can handle the truth.

Hello @Mantis and welcome here.
As far as a doctrine of demons, not sure but is is definitely a doctrine of man. One in which I truly believed in back in the 1990's but have long since stopped as, it just does not line up and, it is a false comfort to those who are misled, and never told to build their faith in Christ to face any and all tribulation. (sorry, really long sentence ) It's dangerous also as it can shatter the faith of some when it does not happen and cause many who heard others tell them, "Pre Trib" "Pre Trib", relax!" They will be weak in faith and, imo lot's will fall. Not to mention the unsaved who heard family or friends talk about this as a true thing, over and over again, wouldn't you think they would be running for that mark of the beast gladly, thinking Christians were wrong after all?? Implications.
It is a comforting teaching but I truly believe it is false. You seem to have an open heart and mind to want to know the Truth! Amen! Same here brother He will make it clear to you and, I know it is not easy to leave a church you have been going to and developing relationships and friendships. I don't look at my bro's and sisters that do believe this teaching as being unsaved or anything but, I pray that they would at least prepare themselves either way... ¯\_㋡_/¯
Again, welcome!
Nancy

 

[Enoch111]

As far as a doctrine of demons, not sure but is is definitely a doctrine of man.

Both conclusions are incorrect. It is a key doctrine first presented by Christ Himself.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes I agree fully. When you read it it just doesn't say there will be a pre-trib rapture. I was just thinking the other day how the ant-christ will be given the power to overcome the saints and how that will be a very hard time for us. We will go to war with the anti-christ and he will prevail. Many will think God left them behind if they hold true to pre-trib rapture.

Well, it certainly looked like Satan prevailed when Jesus died, right? But he didn't stay dead for long, did he? It seems that we go all through our lives having to give up this, and yield to that, with ungodly people walking all over us. But as Paul said, "We're knocked down, and not out." Or something like that--maybe it was a song?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Addressing the OP only. sometimes we look at other to see a blame, but sometimes we just might need to look in the mirror. scripture, 2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:" 2 Thessalonians 2:9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," 2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

and to make it real bad, God is the one who will choose that delusion, scripture, Isaiah 66:4 "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not."

well one is in bad shape when God choose your delusion. ...... YIKES!..... and another YIKES!.

But, that that's but with one "t"....... .. but there is hope in everthing that God do... notice in Isaiah 66:4 he said, "and will bring their fears upon them", well that's good, because, Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Some people think God is bad because He sends delusions on people. But He's God. If He's going to give people free choices, He has to prepare pathways for either choice. If people want to believe a lie, God provides the delusion for them, because that's what they choose to do.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Both conclusions are incorrect. It is a key doctrine first presented by Christ Himself.

I'm not going to call my brothers and sisters "demonic" for believing a lie. But the doctrine is definitely not inspired by God.

Pretrib was *never* taught in all the history of the Church until John Darby came along in the 1800s, reinventing modern Premillennialism. To be truthful, I do believe Premillennialism is correct. I just don't believe Pretrib should ever have been coupled together with Premillennialism.

Although Darby initiated a Protestant version of Prophetic Futurism, Catholic Francisco Ribera had centuries earlier promoted Prophetic Futurism, as well. Ribera had, as his motive, a desire to separate Catholics from the Protestant charge that the Catholic Church was the Antichrist. If Antichrist is a future prophecy, then the Catholics could not, at that time, be the Antichrist.

By contrast, Darby apparently sought to separate out an elite Church from all organized Christianity, including from the Catholic Church. Only a super-spiritual Church would be qualified to escape the coming horrors of a future Tribulation, in which Antichrist kills Christians, and the world suffers consequent punishments from God. The elite Church is thought to be immune from this time, just as in the Early Church Christian Jews were given to escape the 70 AD punishment of Israel by the Romans.

In reality, the book of Revelation does not depict the time of Antichrist's Reign as a time of punishment for the world. Though some suffering always takes place in this world, particularly among the wicked, final punishment is largely reserved for the time of Christ's Return. So there is no thought, biblically, for an escape, by the Church, from the time of Antichrist's Reign. On the contrary, the Church is depicted as faithful and honorable during this time, for holding fast to the faith, even under persecution. This also is how the Early Church viewed persecution, as an honorable thing honored by Jesus.

Surely we should look at it the same way, instead of seeing all Christian suffering as a shameful thing. It will not be honorable to run away from testifying under difficult circumstances. Actually, every day this is how we testify to the truth, by abhorring the ways of the world and trying to live a righteous life. We do not run away from testifying to the truth so as to help people escape from their sins. Rather, we endure some abuse in order to get the message of deliverance from sin across. It is worth it to bring glory to Christ, who also suffered from sinful men.

 

[Philip James]

I want truth, I can handle the truth.

Hello Mantis,

Ask and you shall receive!

Catechism of the Catholic Church

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[101G]

Some people think God is bad because He sends delusions on people. But He's God. If He's going to give people free choices, He has to prepare pathways for either choice. If people want to believe a lie, God provides the delusion for them, because that's what they choose to do.

MY GOD, thanks, you're 100% Correct. people wants to do WHAT THEY WANT TO DO INSTEAD OF WHAT GOD COMMAND THEM TO DO. the scriptures are true,

Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;" Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" Romans 1:21 "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened." Romans 1:22 "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:23 "And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things." Romans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:" Romans 1:25 "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." Romans 1:26 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:" Romans 1:27 "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." Romans 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;" Romans 1:29 "Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers," Romans 1:30 "Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents," Romans 1:31 "Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:" Romans 1:32 "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

and many today... in the church, fit this pattern. and the keyword that STAND OUT in verse 31 is unmerciful. which bribg ne right back to Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

NOW, for GOD almighty to put up with crap like that as describe above, then we who act in this type manner have no excuse in getting our JUST do. we have no one to blame but ourselves. God have to be a LOVING, MERCIFUL, God, it unbelievable the abuse God our "Father" has taken over these many of thousand of YEARS from us. one need to re-read the list the apostle Paul put forth. "Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents". THANK GOD HE HAD A LAW, JUST FOR US TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR AT OUR OWNSELVES.

But even through all of that, he find ways to still save us, (from ourselves), yes, you and I, underseving of his Love and kindness. THANK GOD FOR HIS "GRACE" AND HIS "MERCY". now as the scriptures said, "ALL MOUTHS MUST BE STOP". we all need to shut up, we have no complaints aganist God. if we would take a minute to just in try to count the blessing that God has stored unpon us, we cannot count them all. and that one, proud, and boasters. sometimes I have to laugh at my own-self. God could withdraw his spirit that he have given us, and we'll fall down flat on our faces.

do we know how much danger we're in outside of God. he has given us an ARK of Safety, and as our friend Randy Kluth has said, we don't want to get on board. it's amazing to me how we can be so Ignorant, no I'll say it like the bible say it, when we're "proud", "boasters" of ourselves............. scriptures, Isaiah 56:9 "All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest." Isaiah 56:10 "His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber."Isaiah 56:11 "Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."

what did the LORD GOD say?
a. are blind
b. all ignorant
c. all dumb dogs

as the apostle Peter by the Lord said, "Brute Beast", 2 Peter 2:12 "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"

there it is "YOUR OWN CORRUPTION".

sorry about the rant, but had to get that off my chest. so I apologize if anyone was offended. but people just don't know how Good GOD, has been to us. so, again sorry for the rant.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[ChristisGod]

Well, it certainly looked like Satan prevailed when Jesus died, right? But he didn't stay dead for long, did he? It seems that we go all through our lives having to give up this, and yield to that, with ungodly people walking all over us. But as Paul said, "We're knocked down, and not out." Or something like that--maybe it was a song?

do you like DC Talk, Tobymac ?

 

[DPMartin]

I am really starting to wonder if the pre-tribulation rapture is a doctrine of demons. It sounds wonderful but in reality I think it is a stretch to conclude that there will be a pre-trib rapture from scripture. Yet it is taught with confidence that it is truth. If it is a false teaching that Timothy warns about, many people will be devastated when they are not raptured before the poop hits the fan. I am not worried as I am sure God will protect us but if I spend my days attending a church that teaches this am I just itching my ears? I want truth, I can handle the truth.

I would agree with reggie belephonte all you need is to be born again and focus on that. doesn't really matter how all that goes down the Lord knows how it will go down and as long as He is with you and you are with Him there shouldn't be to much to worry about.

but demon this or that, na, people are just wondering how it will happen and some guesses are more out in left field then others.

 

[Nancy]

Both conclusions are incorrect. It is a key doctrine first presented by Christ Himself.

And, that is your right to believe.

 

[Randy Kluth]

MY GOD, thanks, you're 100% Correct. people wants to do WHAT THEY WANT TO DO INSTEAD OF WHAT GOD COMMAND THEM TO DO. the scriptures are true,

Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;" Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" Romans 1:21 "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened." Romans 1:22 "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:23 "And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things." Romans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:" Romans 1:25 "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." Romans 1:26 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:" Romans 1:27 "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." Romans 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;" Romans 1:29 "Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers," Romans 1:30 "Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents," Romans 1:31 "Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:" Romans 1:32 "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

and many today... in the church, fit this pattern. and the keyword that STAND OUT in verse 31 is unmerciful. which bribg ne right back to Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

NOW, for GOD almighty to put up with crap like that as describe above, then we who act in this type manner have no excuse in getting our JUST do. we have no one to blame but ourselves. God have to be a LOVING, MERCIFUL, God, it unbelievable the abuse God our "Father" has taken over these many of thousand of YEARS from us. one need to re-read the list the apostle Paul put forth. "Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents". THANK GOD HE HAD A LAW, JUST FOR US TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR AT OUR OWNSELVES.

But even through all of that, he find ways to still save us, (from ourselves), yes, you and I, underseving of his Love and kindness. THANK GOD FOR HIS "GRACE" AND HIS "MERCY". now as the scriptures said, "ALL MOUTHS MUST BE STOP". we all need to shut up, we have no complaints aganist God. if we would take a minute to just in try to count the blessing that God has stored unpon us, we cannot count them all. and that one, proud, and boasters. sometimes I have to laugh at my own-self. God could withdraw his spirit that he have given us, and we'll fall down flat on our faces.

do we know how much danger we're in outside of God. he has given us an ARK of Safety, and as our friend Randy Kluth has said, we don't want to get on board. it's amazing to me how we can be so Ignorant, no I'll say it like the bible say it, when we're "proud", "boasters" of ourselves............. scriptures, Isaiah 56:9 "All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest." Isaiah 56:10 "His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber."Isaiah 56:11 "Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."

what did the LORD GOD say?
a. are blind
b. all ignorant
c. all dumb dogs

as the apostle Peter by the Lord said, "Brute Beast", 2 Peter 2:12 "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"

there it is "YOUR OWN CORRUPTION".

sorry about the rant, but had to get that off my chest. so I apologize if anyone was offended. but people just don't know how Good GOD, has been to us. so, again sorry for the rant.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Well said! Needs to be said. If people choose to ignore the fact we were created in God's image, and choose instead to act unlike God, then God would provide character traits that befit this choice. To act like a brute beast is to choose to act unlike God, whose spiritual character is love. To choose to act outside of God's love is to choose cruelty, hate, and murder. God has given us these things if we don't wish to obey His word, and to become His children. Thank you!