The problem with the thousand years?

[Waiting on him]

Nice scripture, whats your purpose and intent of posting it?

Only suggest that many times in OT scripture the word nations is in reference to Israel.

 

[Timtofly]

ya, i'd be much more interested if the math did not work, than if it did...but how to verify Methuselah's age @ Noach's birth? I'd be interested in how you got to 352, if you can recall or access that

"And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died. And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son: And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed. And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died. And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth."

"And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth."

782 years after Lamech was born, Methuselah died.

Noah was born when Lamech was 182 years old.

782 - 182 = 600. 600 years after Noah was born was the Flood.

600 years after Noah was born, Methuselah died.

 

[Timtofly]

Genesis 17:6 KJV
[6] And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Certainly not the case in the first century.

Around 1600 perhaps. Or still future.

 

[Waiting on him]

I only liked because I liked this: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

May we all take it to heart.

But John did not end with, or add what you added ("the first resurrection"). That's your addition, so I never liked because I agree with you.

Okay.

 

[Waiting on him]

Certainly not the case in the first century.

Around 1600 perhaps. Or still future.

All the kings of Israel, including the almighty King?

 

[Waiting on him]

I assume you mean your new Head is Christ?

Absolutely.

 

[Truth7t7]

Genesis 17:6 KJV
[6] And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

The scripture you quote represent the promise made to Abraham, and the many nations he fathered was fulfilled in the seed that was seen in Jesus Christ, not literal nations on earth as you suggest, as the "Context" clearly teaches below

1 Perer 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Genesis 17:5-7KJV
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

 

[Waiting on him]

The scripture you quote represent the promise made to Abraham, and the many nations he fathered was fulfilled in the seed that was seen in Jesus Christ, not literal nations on earth as you suggest, as the "Context" clearly teaches below

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Genesis 17:5-7KJV
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

See # 245.

 

[Waiting on him]

Go ye into all the nations?
To the Jew first.

 

[Waiting on him]

1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV
[17] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Paul didn’t get the commission, but I did?

 

[Truth7t7]

See # 245.

Ok, the promise to abraham was fulfilled in the seed who is Jesus Christ as shown in post #247 above

 

[Marty fox]

No the soul leaves this dead corruptible body and experiences a new permanent incorruptible body. We do not taste death ever.

If you plan on tasting death, you are going to taste it in sheol. Not me!

The soul is not waiting in Abraham's bosom for a body. Do you think only the OT were released, and now the NT saints have to wait in Abraham's bosom?

I said that we die physically

 

[Truth7t7]

No the soul leaves this dead corruptible body and experiences a new permanent incorruptible body. We do not taste death ever.

If you plan on tasting death, you are going to taste it in sheol. Not me!

The soul is not waiting in Abraham's bosom for a body. Do you think only the OT were released, and now the NT saints have to wait in Abraham's bosom?

Your claim is in big error, and in direct opposition to scripture seen below

Your views in theology are hard to be taken seriously, the very basics as seen presented

Hebrews 9:27KJV
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[Marty fox]

@Marty fox
Also, what is the mark of the beast in the first bowl of wrath/plague?

Revelation 16
2 And the first went and poured out his vial on the earth. And a bad and grievous sore fell on the men who had the mark of the beast, and on those who worshiped his image.

This could go into so many different events or symbols of revelation which isn’t the purpose or the topic of this thread because it would never end but the mark on the forehead is symbolic of a constant unrepentant devotion to the beast and the mark on the hand is symbolic for doing the beast will.

A literal mark of the beast would violate the promise of salvation to whoever repents and believes in Jesus

 

[Waiting on him]

I said that we die physically

John 5:24-25 KJV
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. [25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 

[Truth7t7]

This could go into so many different events or symbols of revelation which isn’t the purpose or the topic of this thread because it would never end but the mark on the forehead is symbolic of a constant unrepentant devotion to the beast and the mark on the hand is symbolic for doing the beast will.

A literal mark of the beast would violate the promise of salvation to whoever repents and believes in Jesus

I believe your symbolic representing of the mark and image worship is in error, as scripture strongly suggest below

Revelation 14:6-11KJV
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[Marty fox]

The 70AD Roman Destruction Of Jerusalem Has No Relevance To The Revelation, That Was Written Decades After The Destruction

When Was the Book of Revelation Written?
By Wayne Jackson

Traditionally, the book of Revelation has been dated near the end of the first century, around A.D. 96. Some writers, however, have advanced the preterist (from a Latin word meaning “that which is past”) view, contending that the Apocalypse was penned around A.D. 68 or 69, and thus the thrust of the book is supposed to relate to the impending destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70).

A few prominent names have been associated with this position (e.g., Stuart, Schaff, Lightfoot, Foy E. Wallace Jr.), and for a brief time it was popular with certain scholars. James Orr has observed, however, that recent criticism has reverted to the traditional date of near A.D. 96 (1939, 2584). In fact, the evidence for the later date is extremely strong.

In view of some of the bizarre theories that have surfaced in recent times (e.g., the notion that all end-time prophecies were fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70), which are dependent upon the preterist interpretation, we offer the following.

External Evidence
The external evidence for the late dating of Revelation is of the highest quality.

Irenaeus
Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30). The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.

Clement of Alexandria
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).

Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.

Victorinus
Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:

When John said these things, he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian. There he saw the Apocalypse; and when at length grown old, he thought that he should receive his release by suffering; but Domitian being killed, he was liberated (Commentary on Revelation 10:11).

Jerome
Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,

In the fourteenth then after Nero, Domitian having raised up a second persecution, he [John] was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse (Lives of Illustrious Men 9).

To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.

Internal Evidence
The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.

The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.

Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).

Yes I think that we have been over this before and I have a book full of scholars showing that revelation was written before 70AD and have watched debates on it.

But it doesn’t really matter because none of our references are biblical authority and even early church fathers have made mistakes. I go by the purpose of revelation and history matching what was written.

 

[Waiting on him]

I believe your symbolic representing of the mark and image worship is in error, as scripture strongly suggest below

Revelation 14:6-11KJV
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

To be a Christian in the first century was social suicide, most likely why the church there in Jerusalem was starving.

 

[Waiting on him]

Even the apostle Paul said his house was full spoiled, and he’d suffered the loss of all things.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes I think that we have been over this before and I have a book full of scholars showing that revelation was written before 70AD and have watched debates on it.

But it doesn’t really matter because none of our references are biblical authority and even early church fathers have made mistakes. I go by the purpose of revelation and history matching what was written.

Marty you believe and teach Matthew 24:15 below was fulfilled in the 70AD destruction by Roman armies of Jerusalem

Marty the scripture before your eyes teaches otherwise, as it's a future event unfulfilled, simple, clear, and very easy to understand

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

The bad guy below that causes Daniel's AOD seen in Matthew 24:15 will be present on earth to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End)

Scripture clearly teaches that the event is future, and didnt take place in 66-70AD in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, as Preterism claims

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation
1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )