The Ones Who Are Left…

[Truth7t7]

Yes. There is only ONE coming of Christ, and it's after the tribulation like He said, and that only is when He will gather His Church.

We agree, and at this "Second Coming" this earth is dissolved by fire in final judgement (The End) 2 Peter 3:10-13, Luke 17:29-30

 

[Davy]

We agree, and at this "Second Coming" this earth is dissolved by fire in final judgement (The End) 2 Peter 3:10-13, Luke 17:29-30

NO. Your last statement you well know I do not agree with.

You don't believe there will be a "thousand years" reign by Christ with His elect. I do... believe there will be, because it is written. And others here have shown you this, but you still reject it in favor of men's doctrines...

Rev 20:1-4
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
KJV

 

[Truth7t7]

NO. Your last statement you well know I do not agree with.

You don't believe there will be a "thousand years" reign by Christ with His elect. I do... believe there will be, because it is written. And others here have shown you this, but you still reject it in favor of men's doctrines...

Rev 20:1-4
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
KJV

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Naomi25]

If you would rather not heed those Scriptures as written, fine, your choice. But you'll never convince me they are exactly the same, otherwise I... would be the one who needs eye glasses.

So... are you a believer on the Pre-tribulational Rapture Theory??? I know the Pre-trib school preaches that Christ's Olivet discourse is not for us. Is that why you reject that Scripture maybe?

No. I don’t believe in a Pre-trib Rapture. I believe in a single return of Christ. And I think the discourse describes this.
And please don’t put words in my mouth; I have never said they are “exactly the same”. I said they are almost exactly the same, and anyone reading the two passages side by side can see how close they are.
You may believe I am “not heeding” scripture and “rejecting” it by seeing the similarities, but by your logic, we must say that any differences across the gospels show that Christ was speaking of/about different events, or even blatant contradictions, even where he is clearly not. No scholar does that…they take the slight differences in what is clearly an account of the same discourse or parable and put the differences down to the recounting by different people and their understanding/hearing. To argue differently, as I said, would to be to open the door for all those who call into question the veracity of the gospels witness.
Now…you might disagree with me in my ultimate understanding of the Discourse. But I am not ‘rejecting’ or ‘not heeding’ scripture. I am handling it as carefully as I can.

 

[Aunty Jane]

No. I don’t believe in a Pre-trib Rapture. I believe in a single return of Christ. And I think the discourse describes this.
And please don’t put words in my mouth; I have never said they are “exactly the same”. I said they are almost exactly the same, and anyone reading the two passages side by side can see how close they are.
You may believe I am “not heeding” scripture and “rejecting” it by seeing the similarities, but by your logic, we must say that any differences across the gospels show that Christ was speaking of/about different events, or even blatant contradictions, even where he is clearly not. No scholar does that…they take the slight differences in what is clearly an account of the same discourse or parable and put the differences down to the recounting by different people and their understanding/hearing. To argue differently, as I said, would to be to open the door for all those who call into question the veracity of the gospels witness.
Now…you might disagree with me in my ultimate understanding of the Discourse. But I am not ‘rejecting’ or ‘not heeding’ scripture. I am handling it as carefully as I can.

Interesting topic, but if I may add some detail, I think it will help to understand who the “weeds” are and who the “wheat” is, and when the “harvest” is said to take place....

First of all we can see from the parable that satan is the sower of the “weeds”. It is believed to refer to a toxic plant called “Bearded Darnell” which in the Middle East has always been a blight for wheat farmers. It is actually called “wheat’s evil twin” because of the indistinguishable difference between wheat and this weed in the early growing stages. This is why Jesus said not to uproot the weeds in case you uproot the wheat with them. By the time the plants are identifiable, their root systems are so entwined that you cannot remove the weed without harming the wheat.

Farmers would sometimes deliberately oversow an enemy’s crop with this weed to ruin it. This is what the devil did. Jesus planted the wheat, and satan planted the weeds in the same field. At first they were not obvious....

This makes the parable very interesting because what the devil sowed “while men were sleeping” was a counterfeit look-alike “Christianity”. Hard to tell in the beginning, but as time went on the wheat were almost choked out by the corrupting power of the weeds.
“While men were sleeping” could possibly mean when the apostles died, as Paul said that they were acting as a restraint against an apostasy that was foretold and already beginning to take hold towards the end of the first century. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12)

Those who led “the church” after the first century, like the Pharisees before them, began to introduce traditions and practices that Christ never taught, and led the people away from the truth by forbidding them to read God’s word, so no one could check with the scriptures to see if what they were being taught was true. (Acts 17:10-11) They got away with this for centuries racking up a litany of religious error upon error. No one had the power to stop them, until a priest named Martin Luther nailed his thesis to the church door protesting about their many deviations.

The resulting Protestant Reformation broke the power of the Roman church but it did not unite the Christians...it actually broke them up in to ever more bickering factions.
So wheat and weeds have continued to grow together in the world.....but it has not been a happy union.

Only at the time of the harvest, which is the time of Christ’s return, will the “wheat” be separated from the “weeds” completely. They will basically have nothing in common though both will be professing Jesus as their Lord.
Jesus will send out his angels to collect the weeds, and they will be disposed of before the harvest of the wheat.

Jesus referred to this time of judgment in Matthew 7:21-23...
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (ESV)

So just identifying as a “Christian” is not enough.....you have to be active in “doing the will of the Father”. Those who try to offer their excuses to Jesus are told in no uncertain terms...”I NEVER KNEW YOU”...and he called them “WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS”......imagine being on the receiving end of that rejection!! What laws could these “Christians” be breaking?

This is a very interesting parable indeed.....and there is so much more to it than meets the eye.
It was given to a Jewish audience who understood full well the import of the illustration....but do we?
Food for thought.....

 

[Truth7t7]

Interesting topic, but if I may add some detail, I think it will help to understand who the “weeds” are and who the “wheat” is, and when the “harvest” is said to take place....

First of all we can see from the parable that satan is the sower of the “weeds”. It is believed to refer to a toxic plant called “Bearded Darnell” which in the Middle East has always been a blight for wheat farmers. It is actually called “wheat’s evil twin” because of the indistinguishable difference between wheat and this weed in the early growing stages. This is why Jesus said not to uproot the weeds in case you uproot the wheat with them. By the time the plants are identifiable, their root systems are so entwined that you cannot remove the weed without harming the wheat.

Farmers would sometimes deliberately oversow an enemy’s crop with this weed to ruin it. This is what the devil did. Jesus planted the wheat, and satan planted the weeds in the same field. At first they were not obvious....

This makes the parable very interesting because what the devil sowed “while men were sleeping” was a counterfeit look-alike “Christianity”. Hard to tell in the beginning, but as time went on the wheat were almost choked out by the corrupting power of the weeds.
“While men were sleeping” could possibly mean when the apostles died, as Paul said that they were acting as a restraint against an apostasy that was foretold and already beginning to take hold towards the end of the first century. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12)

Those who led “the church” after the first century, like the Pharisees before them, began to introduce traditions and practices that Christ never taught, and led the people away from the truth by forbidding them to read God’s word, so no one could check with the scriptures to see if what they were being taught was true. (Acts 17:10-11) They got away with this for centuries racking up a litany of religious error upon error. No one had the power to stop them, until a priest named Martin Luther nailed his thesis to the church door protesting about their many deviations.

The resulting Protestant Reformation broke the power of the Roman church but it did not unite the Christians...it actually broke them up in to ever more bickering factions.
So wheat and weeds have continued to grow together in the world.....but it has not been a happy union.

Only at the time of the harvest, which is the time of Christ’s return, will the “wheat” be separated from the “weeds” completely. They will basically have nothing in common though both will be professing Jesus as their Lord.
Jesus will send out his angels to collect the weeds, and they will be disposed of before the harvest of the wheat.

Jesus referred to this time of judgment in Matthew 7:21-23...
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (ESV)

So just identifying as a “Christian” is not enough.....you have to be active in “doing the will of the Father”. Those who try to offer their excuses to Jesus are told in no uncertain terms...”I NEVER KNEW YOU”...and he called them “WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS”......imagine being on the receiving end of that rejection!! What laws could these “Christians” be breaking?

This is a very interesting parable indeed.....and there is so much more to it than meets the eye.
It was given to a Jewish audience who understood full well the import of the illustration....but do we?
Food for thought.....

Thanks for the post, enjoyed the read!

 

[Oseas]

Revelation 11:v.15and18 ;
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
18 And the nations will be angry., and GOD's wrath is come,...

Revelation 5:v.10 - And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we will reign on the earth.

Matthew 5:v. 5 - Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

 

[Davy]

The resurrection of all takes place on the last day at the second coming of Jesus Christ (The End)

Unless you count the resurrection that happened on the day of Christ's death on His cross...

Matt 27:50-53
50 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
KJV

 

[Truth7t7]

Unless you count the resurrection that happened on the day of Christ's death on His cross...

Matt 27:50-53
50 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
KJV

The saints that came out of their grave were "Raised From The Dead" just as Lazarus and Tabitha were, no resurrection to the glorified, immortal body took place

You will closely note it states (His Resurrections) and not (Their Resurrection)

Matthew 27:52-53KJV
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[Davy]

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

So much for your man-made doctrine, the below Bible Scripture destroys your theory from men...

Rev 20:1-4
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
KJV

 

[Truth7t7]

So much for your man-made doctrine, the below Bible Scripture destroys your theory from men...

Rev 20:1-4
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
KJV

That's correct, (The Souls) & (The Dead) lived and reigned with Jesus Christ in the spiritual realm of no literal time, where one day is a thousand years

 

[Davy]

No. I don’t believe in a Pre-trib Rapture. I believe in a single return of Christ. And I think the discourse describes this.
And please don’t put words in my mouth; I have never said they are “exactly the same”. I said they are almost exactly the same, and anyone reading the two passages side by side can see how close they are.
You may believe I am “not heeding” scripture and “rejecting” it by seeing the similarities, but by your logic, we must say that any differences across the gospels show that Christ was speaking of/about different events, or even blatant contradictions, even where he is clearly not. No scholar does that…they take the slight differences in what is clearly an account of the same discourse or parable and put the differences down to the recounting by different people and their understanding/hearing. To argue differently, as I said, would to be to open the door for all those who call into question the veracity of the gospels witness.
Now…you might disagree with me in my ultimate understanding of the Discourse. But I am not ‘rejecting’ or ‘not heeding’ scripture. I am handling it as carefully as I can.

All I know is that The LORD gave us several witnesses of an event in His Word which 'some' brethren choose to think they each read the same. It's like they think there's no need to closely read the other verses in other Books or Chapters, since they would be reading over the same account over and over again. That is FAULTY reasoning, and actually laziness on the Bible student's part.

Reason is, is because not all the Bible witnesses of the 'same' event are written... the same. One Chapter can have some points the other Chapters do not, and visa versa. The Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture versions of the same event are exactly like that, they contain a difference between them, and it's as I have said; one contains Christ gathering His saints from the heavenly, and the other version contains Christ's gathering of His saints from the earth (that are still alive).

And that difference was ALSO shown by Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 = Christ gathering the "asleep" saints at His coming, He brings them with Him, which means they come with Him from Heaven -- the Matthew 24:31 gathering of the saints from heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 = Christ gathering His saints from the earth; they are "caught up" to Him in the clouds = the Mark 13:27 gathering of the saints from the earth.


Your not being aware of that difference of 2 separate groups of the saints being gathered in 1 Thessalonians 4 would explain why you don't understand those 2 groups of saints gathered by Jesus per His Olive discourse.

 

[Truth7t7]

All I know is that The LORD gave us several witnesses of an event in His Word which 'some' brethren choose to think they each read the same. It's like they think there's no need to closely read the other verses in other Books or Chapters, since they would be reading over the same account over and over again. That is FAULTY reasoning, and actually laziness on the Bible student's part.

Reason is, is because not all the Bible witnesses of the 'same' event are written... the same. One Chapter can have some points the other Chapters do not, and visa versa. The Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture versions of the same event are exactly like that, they contain a difference between them, and it's as I have said; one contains Christ gathering His saints from the heavenly, and the other version contains Christ's gathering of His saints from the earth (that are still alive).

And that difference was ALSO shown by Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 = Christ gathering the "asleep" saints at His coming, He brings them with Him, which means they come with Him from Heaven -- the Matthew 24:31 gathering of the saints from heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 = Christ gathering His saints from the earth; they are "caught up" to Him in the clouds = the Mark 13:27 gathering of the saints from the earth.


Your not being aware of that difference of 2 separate groups of the saints being gathered in 1 Thessalonians 4 would explain why you don't understand those 2 groups of saints gathered by Jesus per His Olive discourse.

The gathering of the saints in all accounts is from "The Earth"

The only difference is some will be living and "Caught Up" while the dead will be "Resurrected", both receiving the glorified, immortal body at the Lords return

 

[Hidden In Him]

Matthew 13:24-30
The Parable of the Weeds
[24] He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, [25] but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away. [26] So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. [27] And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ [28] He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ [29] But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. [30] Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

So how are you, Ma'am? Still one of my favorite avatars, LoL.

Let me give you an answer that you may not have been expecting (though I don't have the time to read through 11 pages, so forgive me if someone put this forward already):

The phrase "bind them into bundles" is equivalent in meaning to "gather them into groups," and look what it says in Matthew 24 regarding what the false Christs will do:

If anyone says to you, "Behold, the Christ is here, or there," do not believe it. For there will arise false Christs and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to mislead if possible even the elect. Behold, I have told you beforehand. If therefore they say unto you, "Behold, He is in the wilderness," do not go forth, or "Behold, He is in the private rooms," do not believe it. For as the lightning comes forth from the East and shines as far as the West, so too shall the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the corpse may be, there will the vultures be gathered. (Matthew 24:23-28)

The phrase "wherever the corpse may be, there will the vultures be gathered" is a way of saying the false Christs will be mere mortal men made of flesh and blood, and not capable of manifesting the glory of God across the entire sky. Their teachings will also lead to spiritual uncleanness, which is why Jesus references spiritual uncleanness here (i.e. "corpses"). Jesus is the True Bread of Life, but consuming their teachings will be like feeding upon rotten flesh, something highly offensive to the Jewish ear as a spiritually unclean thing to do, and thus an indirect reference to their being indwelt and used by unclean spirits.

But these "vultures" will be gathered into groups around the different false Christs that arise, because they will come forth performing demonically-empowered signs and wonders, ones so great that they deceive if possible even the very elect. The parable you cited above is actually called the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares, which was spoken prophetically of the Gnostics in particular, who professed themselves to be "Christians" and appeared to be on the outside, but within they were false believers, similar to how tares look like wheat on the outside but are not. Gnosticism gave rise to the first false Christs in New Testament times, and will again in the end-times, so the entire thing fits. Through supernatural powers they will gather the tares into "bundles" or groups of followers first, and then Christ when He returns will gather unto himself the harvest and it will be taken to His "barn," i.e. Heaven.

I realize that doesn't help you any with your amillenialism, LoL (as it could still go either way), but I think that's what the parable is actually referring to.

God bless, and don't change your avatar anytime soon. It's still my favorite.
- H

 

[Davy]

The saints that came out of their grave were "Raised From The Dead" just as Lazarus and Tabitha were, no resurrection to the glorified, immortal body took place

You will closely note it states (His Resurrections) and not (Their Resurrection)

Matthew 27:52-53KJV
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

So they were raised to their old flesh bodies only to DIE AGAIN LATER??? Afraid not! You're heeding an old Jewish fable.

Heb 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
KJV

That means those saints that came out of their graves at Christ's death on the cross were indeed resurrected... and did not later die 'again'. Per what you say, they would have to die at least TWICE!

Your belief shows you heed what the Jew's religion believes, which is about a dead soul and a fleshy resurrection, when Apostle Paul made it clear that it is our spirit-soul that is raised from the dead, not our flesh.

 

[Davy]

That's correct, (The Souls) & (The Dead) lived and reigned with Jesus Christ in the spiritual realm of no literal time, where one day is a thousand years

Your speech is nothing but confusion.

 

[Davy]

The gathering of the saints in all accounts is from "The Earth"

No it isn't. The "asleep" saints that Apostle Paul said the saints still alive will not precede, are already with Jesus right now (in the heavenly). Paul showed this in the 2 Corinthians 5 Chapter, and Jesus showed it in the Luke 16 chapter, ever read it?

The 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 Scripture verifies that Jesus will bring the "asleep" saints WITH HIM WHEN HE COMES. The "asleep" saints are those saints that have already died that sleep in Jesus. They are already with Him, which is how He brings them with Him when He comes.

But I can see what your problem is with understanding those Scriptures. It's because of your belief on a false 'dead in the ground' theory that the orthodox Jews have. When we die, our spirit with soul goes back to God where it came from. Solomon showed this early on in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7. Our flesh body is what goes back to the earth elements where it came from, and is dissolved. We never put that earthly shell back on, ever. Instead, our "image of the heavenly" per Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, what Paul called the "spiritual body" is what we are 'changed' to. ALL peoples will be in that body of incorruption after Christ's return, even the "resurrection of damnation".

I can see though you will never understand this until it happens, because of how the Jew's doctrines have been ingrained in you about this matter.

 

[Truth7t7]

Apostle Paul made it clear that it is our spirit-soul that is raised from the dead, not our flesh.

I strongly disagree with your claim, Jesus was the firstfruit of the resurrection, and he was raised in a tangible body of flesh and bone, that ate physical food upon this earth, the believer will receive this same glorified body, we shall be like him

It appears that you deny a basic fundamental belief in the Christian faith in the "Bodily" resurrection of the believer

1 John 3:2KJV
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Luke 24:38-42KJV
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

 

[Truth7t7]

No it isn't. The "asleep" saints that Apostle Paul said the saints still alive will not precede, are already with Jesus right now (in the heavenly). Paul showed this in the 2 Corinthians 5 Chapter, and Jesus showed it in the Luke 16 chapter, ever read it?

The 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 Scripture verifies that Jesus will bring the "asleep" saints WITH HIM WHEN HE COMES. The "asleep" saints are those saints that have already died that sleep in Jesus. They are already with Him, which is how He brings them with Him when He comes.

But I can see what your problem is with understanding those Scriptures. It's because of your belief on a false 'dead in the ground' theory that the orthodox Jews have. When we die, our spirit with soul goes back to God where it came from. Solomon showed this early on in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7. Our flesh body is what goes back to the earth elements where it came from, and is dissolved. We never put that earthly shell back on, ever. Instead, our "image of the heavenly" per Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, what Paul called the "spiritual body" is what we are 'changed' to. ALL peoples will be in that body of incorruption after Christ's return, even the "resurrection of damnation".

I can see though you will never understand this until it happens, because of how the Jew's doctrines have been ingrained in you about this matter.

You deny the future bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ, a basic fundamental belief in the Christian faith

1 Corinthians 15:12-14KJV
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Acts 4:14-15KJV
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

 

[Naomi25]

Interesting topic, but if I may add some detail, I think it will help to understand who the “weeds” are and who the “wheat” is, and when the “harvest” is said to take place....

First of all we can see from the parable that satan is the sower of the “weeds”. It is believed to refer to a toxic plant called “Bearded Darnell” which in the Middle East has always been a blight for wheat farmers. It is actually called “wheat’s evil twin” because of the indistinguishable difference between wheat and this weed in the early growing stages. This is why Jesus said not to uproot the weeds in case you uproot the wheat with them. By the time the plants are identifiable, their root systems are so entwined that you cannot remove the weed without harming the wheat.

Farmers would sometimes deliberately oversow an enemy’s crop with this weed to ruin it. This is what the devil did. Jesus planted the wheat, and satan planted the weeds in the same field. At first they were not obvious....

This makes the parable very interesting because what the devil sowed “while men were sleeping” was a counterfeit look-alike “Christianity”. Hard to tell in the beginning, but as time went on the wheat were almost choked out by the corrupting power of the weeds.
“While men were sleeping” could possibly mean when the apostles died, as Paul said that they were acting as a restraint against an apostasy that was foretold and already beginning to take hold towards the end of the first century. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12)

Those who led “the church” after the first century, like the Pharisees before them, began to introduce traditions and practices that Christ never taught, and led the people away from the truth by forbidding them to read God’s word, so no one could check with the scriptures to see if what they were being taught was true. (Acts 17:10-11) They got away with this for centuries racking up a litany of religious error upon error. No one had the power to stop them, until a priest named Martin Luther nailed his thesis to the church door protesting about their many deviations.

The resulting Protestant Reformation broke the power of the Roman church but it did not unite the Christians...it actually broke them up in to ever more bickering factions.
So wheat and weeds have continued to grow together in the world.....but it has not been a happy union.

Only at the time of the harvest, which is the time of Christ’s return, will the “wheat” be separated from the “weeds” completely. They will basically have nothing in common though both will be professing Jesus as their Lord.
Jesus will send out his angels to collect the weeds, and they will be disposed of before the harvest of the wheat.

Jesus referred to this time of judgment in Matthew 7:21-23...
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (ESV)

So just identifying as a “Christian” is not enough.....you have to be active in “doing the will of the Father”. Those who try to offer their excuses to Jesus are told in no uncertain terms...”I NEVER KNEW YOU”...and he called them “WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS”......imagine being on the receiving end of that rejection!! What laws could these “Christians” be breaking?

This is a very interesting parable indeed.....and there is so much more to it than meets the eye.
It was given to a Jewish audience who understood full well the import of the illustration....but do we?
Food for thought.....

Hi Jane, thanks for you post, it was most interesting.

I’ve had a similar discussion about this parable with backlit. He too believes the parable points to the ‘weeds’ being fake believers. And, this certainly may be the case. However, as I said to him, I don’t know that I’m quite willing to go that far, based upon the text alone. Parables, I think, are not often supposed to be pushed or plumbed further than the story it is, in their own way, rather simply giving. In this case, we are only told that the ‘field’ is the ‘world’.
Now, that certain includes the ‘church’ and those who are in it, both true and false believers. So in a way, you’re absolutely correct.
But we would also have to say that ‘world’ also covers everyone. And if we truly think about it, the field must mean the world, if Christ allows the time frame to be ‘til the end of the age’. Simply because every single person IN the world has the potential to become a member of Christ’s body (a wheat and not a weed!) at some point in their life.
In essence, I believe the parable is simply saying: ‘the world will go on, and people will be allowed to live, choosing whom they will follow, up until the end of the age.’ It’s at that point that they will be gathered, divided, one from another, and judged.