Silly question, but a thought provoking one:

[Jane_Doe22]

If you accuse, you yourself cannot recuse.

My entire point here has been that the silliness/egotism of these "false Jesus" etc type associations!
On one hand, you agree with me, and then the next post you seemingly do a 180 and endorse such behavior.

 

[David in NJ]

My entire point here has been that the silliness/egotism of these "false Jesus" etc type associations!
On one hand, you agree with me, and then the next post you seemingly do a 180 and endorse such behavior.

i agree with you and eveyone who exalts Christ above religion

You have said some beautiful truths about Christ - i am all in on Truth

 

[Jane_Doe22]

i agree with you and eveyone who exalts Christ above religion

You have said some beautiful truths about Christ - i am all in on Truth

Doesn’t really address my point, but ok.

 

[Brakelite]

My entire point here has been that the silliness/egotism of these "false Jesus" etc type associations!

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.
Since its inception, the LDS church has been challenged many times to justify its beliefs. You come to our homes door to door, you frequent the same forums, you challenge our own beliefs and by simply sending out missionaries suggest our current beliefs are short on truth. As you said above, we are different. But we cannot all be correct. People do challenge my beliefs every day. And I'm happy to do what scripture requires, give a reason for my faith.
The gospel demands we worship the true God.
Revelation 14:6 ¶ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

You avoid answering. Many times you have been shown from LDS resources certain doctrinal deviations from scripture, and your stock answer, is "I don't believe that, ask me what I believe. I believe in Christ". Now I personally think that's great, as Jesus is the only way to the Father. And I believe I remember you saying that a few times. But the LDS Christ is not the same Christ as scripture. The Christ you believe in may well be the Christ of scripture, but not once have you explained why your beliefs differ from official LDS teachings. The anomaly and contradiction that seems to exists there is confusing. If you cannot justify the official LDS teachings in their doctrinal books, then just say so. Your persecution complex that arises to the fore when asked is not a good look and only serves to bolster the sense of doubt we all have toward LDS teachings.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.
Since its inception, the LDS church has been challenged many times to justify its beliefs. You come to our homes door to door, you frequent the same forums, you challenge our own beliefs and by simply sending out missionaries suggest our current beliefs are short on truth. As you said above, we are different. But we cannot all be correct. People do challenge my beliefs every day. And I'm happy to do what scripture requires, give a reason for my faith.
The gospel demands we worship the true God.
Revelation 14:6 ¶ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

You avoid answering. Many times you have been shown from LDS resources certain doctrinal deviations from scripture, and your stock answer, is "I don't believe that, ask me what I believe. I believe in Christ". Now I personally think that's great, as Jesus is the only way to the Father. And I believe I remember you saying that a few times. But the LDS Christ is not the same Christ as scripture. The Christ you believe in may well be the Christ of scripture, but not once have you explained why your beliefs differ from official LDS teachings. The anomaly and contradiction that seems to exists there is confusing. If you cannot justify the official LDS teachings in their doctrinal books, then just say so. Your persecution complex that arises to the fore when asked is not a good look and only serves to bolster the sense of doubt we all have toward LDS teachings.

And many times you have been shown how these “anti-cult” resources give false information and bare false witness. And yet you still cling to them and from that platform harass me about not following you and them. Read Matthew 7:1-2.

 

[Brakelite]

And many times you have been shown how these “anti-cult” resources give false information and bare false witness.

Those "anti-cult" resources on many occasions were quotes taken from LDS material. After all, if not taken from LDS material, then the alternative is that they were made up. In other words, you are suggesting that the secret mysterious underwear, the oaths, the doctrines pertaining to a sexual relationship between God and a wife to produce Jesus and Lucifer, etc etc, are figments of others imagination. You have often said the above, that such teachings are not what the LDS teaches, and you repeatedly deny you have any part or parcel in believing them, being "false information and lies". How can a quote from LDS material be a lie unless it is the LDS themselves who are lying?
And you blame me for questioning???

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Those "anti-cult" resources on many occasions were quotes taken from LDS material. After all, if not taken from LDS material, then the alternative is that they were made up. In other words, you are suggesting that the secret mysterious underwear, the oaths, the doctrines pertaining to a sexual relationship between God and a wife to produce Jesus and Lucifer, etc etc, are figments of others imagination. You have often said the above, that such teachings are not what the LDS teaches, and you repeatedly deny you have any part or parcel in believing them, being "false information and lies". How can a quote from LDS material be a lie unless it is the LDS themselves who are lying?
And you blame me for questioning???

And the devil himself quotes scripture. Does that make what the devil says true?

I’ve shown again and again how these accusations are false and/or skewed. Think!!

 

[Brakelite]

I’ve shown again and again how these accusations are false and/or skewed. Think!!

Actually what you showed previously not long above, regarding the personal planet rule etc, was that you don't think about them.

 

[Brakelite]

And the devil himself quotes scripture. Does that make what the devil says true?

I’ve shown again and again how these accusations are false and/or skewed. Think!!

Why are you offended that anyone should ask such questions considering your church asserts that the LDS is the one true church on the face of the earth. Joseph Smith claimed Jesus Christ told him to join none of the existing denominations because “they were all wrong . . . that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt” (PGP: Joseph Smith-History 1:19-20). Mormons claim only the LDS possesses the divine authority of the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthood as restored by God to Joseph Smith in 1829. (D&C 13; 27:8- 13; 107:1-20. Why does it seem so strange to you that anyone should dare challenge your beliefs when your prophet declared all others an abomination in the sight of God?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Why are you offended that anyone should ask such questions considering your church asserts that the LDS is the one true church on the face of the earth. Joseph Smith claimed Jesus Christ told him to join none of the existing denominations because “they were all wrong . . . that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt” (PGP: Joseph Smith-History 1:19-20). Mormons claim only the LDS possesses the divine authority of the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthood as restored by God to Joseph Smith in 1829. (D&C 13; 27:8- 13; 107:1-20. Why does it seem so strange to you that anyone should dare challenge your beliefs when your prophet declared all others an abomination in the sight of God?

Why do you ask questions you already know the answers to?
I get sick and tired of constantly having false accusation lobbed at me-- frequently accusations the person didn't even bother to write themselves but mindless copy-pasted from somewhere else. And when I correct them, I'm blatantly ignored and scolded for not blindly following the mindless "anti-cult" parrot! And to have folks do so, while claiming they are "true Christen" and that I need to repent and be like their sinful arrogant selves-- it's disgusting!!! And it makes extra makes me sad because I know that there are indeed true Christians in each group and these sinful "defenders of the faith" so poorly represent them.

Let's just correct just a few facts:
- Every group believes that their group has the correct theology-- that's why they believe as they do!! LDS Christians aren't remotely special that way.
- Yes, I passionately don't believe the Creeds- you've seen me speak on here about the Athanasian Creed and it's statements about "substance". But that's different than attacking the people in other groups.
- LDS Christians do acknowledge that other folks are indeed Christians, and have the right to practice their beliefs as they believe is ethical. That level of respect and following the Second Great Commandment is so important it's literally an Article of Faith. Compare this to the treatment that "anti-cultists" indulge in: bullying, false accusations, and threats of hellfire.
- The "different Jesus" argument is a giant strawman. We both believe in the Bible. Yes, Creedal Christians embrace the Creeds and I don't- but the Creeds are not the Bible! Nor is a man saved by his ability to pass a theology test. Creedal Christian pews have tons of modulist believing folks in them for example.
- No the after life is not focused on getting your own planets, it's about being on with God.
- Mary, the mother of Christ, was a virgin. No, there was not sex involved. Besides being stated in the Bible, Mary's virginity is also stated several times in the Book of Mormon.

Need I go on?

Yes, I get sick of it. Me believing as I do (and other member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) is not a threat to you. I'm not attacking you, and there is zero reason for clinging to false claims. Drop the "anti-cult" pitchfolks already.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Just admit that the trinity is not in the Bible.

The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, nor is the word "Bible", but they both still exist.

 

[Brakelite]

Why do you ask questions you already know the answers to?
I get sick and tired of constantly having false accusation lobbed at me-- frequently accusations the person didn't even bother to write themselves but mindless copy-pasted from somewhere else. And when I correct them, I'm blatantly ignored and scolded for not blindly following the mindless "anti-cult" parrot! And to have folks do so, while claiming they are "true Christen" and that I need to repent and be like their sinful arrogant selves-- it's disgusting!!! And it makes extra makes me sad because I know that there are indeed true Christians in each group and these sinful "defenders of the faith" so poorly represent them.

Let's just correct just a few facts:
- Every group believes that their group has the correct theology-- that's why they believe as they do!! LDS Christians aren't remotely special that way.
- Yes, I passionately don't believe the Creeds- you've seen me speak on here about the Athanasian Creed and it's statements about "substance". But that's different than attacking the people in other groups.
- LDS Christians do acknowledge that other folks are indeed Christians, and have the right to practice their beliefs as they believe is ethical. That level of respect and following the Second Great Commandment is so important it's literally an Article of Faith. Compare this to the treatment that "anti-cultists" indulge in: bullying, false accusations, and threats of hellfire.
- The "different Jesus" argument is a giant strawman. We both believe in the Bible. Yes, Creedal Christians embrace the Creeds and I don't- but the Creeds are not the Bible! Nor is a man saved by his ability to pass a theology test. Creedal Christian pews have tons of modulist believing folks in them for example.
- No the after life is not focused on getting your own planets, it's about being on with God.
- Mary, the mother of Christ, was a virgin. No, there was not sex involved. Besides being stated in the Bible, Mary's virginity is also stated several times in the Book of Mormon.

Need I go on?

Yes, I get sick of it. Me believing as I do (and other member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) is not a threat to you. I'm not attacking you, and there is zero reason for clinging to false claims. Drop the "anti-cult" pitchfolks already.

Well. That was as great a display of righteous indignation if ever I saw one. Yet it still didn't actually address the issue I was trying to dial into. Maybe my writing skills ain't as good as I imagine and you simply don't get where I'm coming from. That's alright. Making you angry wasn't a part of the plan. I'll drop it. You continue being you, I'm not trying to change you, just trying to understand you. I still don't, but hey, that's okay too.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Well. That was as great a display of righteous indignation if ever I saw one. Yet it still didn't actually address the issue I was trying to dial into. Maybe my writing skills ain't as good as I imagine and you simply don't get where I'm coming from. That's alright. Making you angry wasn't a part of the plan. I'll drop it. You continue being you, I'm not trying to change you, just trying to understand you. I still don't, but hey, that's okay too.

When trying to understand someone, it is best to humbly ask questions, listen to the answers, and then update your behavior based on that knowledge.

You do not act like a person trying to learn. Instead, you come claiming “Mormons believe xyz “ and accusations of false Christs. No matter how many times I explain how that “anti-cult” stuff is agenda-driven junk or address specific points— like the dumb “false Christ” strawman I’ve addressed yet again this thread and yet again been ignored. The same ignorant accusations over and over again.

 

[David in NJ]

When trying to understand someone, it is best to humbly ask questions, listen to the answers, and then update your behavior based on that knowledge.

You do not act like a person trying to learn. Instead, you come claiming “Mormons believe xyz “ and accusations of false Christs. No matter how many times I explain how that “anti-cult” stuff is agenda-driven junk or address specific points— like the dumb “false Christ” strawman I’ve addressed yet again this thread and yet again been ignored. The same ignorant accusations over and over again.

i haven't seen one personal attack against you on here these past couple of days.
The purpose of discussing the doctrinal beliefs of different religions is to compare those beliefs to the Word of God.
Our Lord Jesus Christ said that our Sanctification only comes from believing God's Truth and by rejecting any teachings that oppose.
Satan was in the Garden and with just one little twist of God's word he brought the whole world down with him.

If just one little twist can open wide the Gates of Hell, should we not as followers of Christ examine everything we hear and expose them to the Light of the Gospel. Does obeying the Second Commandment nullify the First Commandment???

If the First Commandment is to love God with all of our heart, mind, soul and strength - would not the Second Commandment be fulfilled in telling your neighbor the Truth???

 

[Jane_Doe22]

i haven't seen one personal attack against you on here these past couple of days.
The purpose of discussing the doctrinal beliefs of different religions is to compare those beliefs to the Word of God.
Our Lord Jesus Christ said that our Sanctification only comes from believing God's Truth and by rejecting any teachings that oppose.
Satan was in the Garden and with just one little twist of God's word he brought the whole world down with him.

If just one little twist can open wide the Gates of Hell, should we not as followers of Christ examine everything we hear and expose them to the Light of the Gospel. Does obeying the Second Commandment nullify the First Commandment???

If the First Commandment is to love God with all of our heart, mind, soul and strength - would not the Second Commandment be fulfilled in telling your neighbor the Truth???

No part of the First Commandment includes “hey you should bare false witness against this person/s”. Which is exactly what has been done here over an over again. I acknowledge those doing so usually do so in ignorance, and frequently have been threatened that if they don’t do so they are going to burn (and frequently threatened/abused thus for decades ). But ignorance doesn’t make it alright.

 

[David in NJ]

No part of the First Commandment includes “hey you should bare false witness against this person/s”. Which is exactly what has been done here over an over again. I acknowledge those doing so usually do so in ignorance, and frequently have been threatened that if they don’t do so they are going to burn (and frequently threatened/abused thus for decades ). But ignorance doesn’t make it alright.

i have not seen that against you
exposing false teachings is the Way of God - 2 Peter 2

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

 

[Wrangler]

The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, nor is the word "Bible", but they both still exist.

What a Strawman. No one is denying the flawed concept of the trinity exists. The fact is, the trinity - neither the word, nor the doctrine - is not a part of God’s word.

Study well Mark 7:13 and compare it to your 4th century man-made idol. And note that Jesus did not teach the trinity.

 

[David in NJ]

What a Strawman. No one is denying the flawed concept of the trinity exists. The fact is, the trinity - neither the word, nor the doctrine - is not a part of God’s word.

Study well Mark 7:13 and compare it to your 4th century man-made idol. And note that Jesus did not teach the trinity.

Wrangler, Good Morning, you speak with great confidence that the Father Son Holy Spirit are not all One Elohim.

What evidence do you have to overturn the following Scripture that reveals to us the Godhead of Three Persons = Father Son Holy Spirit (Trinity)

Genesis 1:1-3
Genesis 1:26"Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness"
Genesis chapters 12 -28
Exodus 3:14-16God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” 15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.
Isaiah chapters 9, 42 -44 and 51
John ch1 - "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" - "the Word became flesh"
John ch 4 -ch 10, ch17
Acts ch1-ch4
Revelation ch1 and chs 21-22

 

[Jane_Doe22]

i have not seen that against you

Then you must be intentionally choosing to not see it.

 

[Wrangler]

i haven't seen one personal attack against you on here these past couple of days.

Then you must be intentionally choosing to not see it.

Agreed. That's why I put David on Ignore.

A. State a doctrine another church has that you don't agree with and why.
B. Mischaracterize another church's doctrine and attack that mischaracterization.

B is not the same as A.