The Ones Who Are Left…

[Curtis]

What’s your opinion of post #395?
And also, you don’t believe God always forgives every offense as Jesus commanded Peter 7x70?

God forgives Christians of sins that are sincerely repented of and confessed, such as per 1 John 1:9.

See the next post, #422

 

[Curtis]

Why do you believe Jesus stoped to say this?


Luke 23:28 KJV
[28] But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

God doesn’t automatically forgive sins committed as Christians, we must confess them to be forgiven, per 1 John 1:9, and as for forgiving our brother, they also have to repent to us, per this:

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

We repent to God, our brother repents to us - it’s not automatically forgiven.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

They seem to have been sown.. by the wicked one.

A lot of seeds sown over the last two millennia.

always wondered about “while they slept” the enemy came and sowed. First question being who sows in “you reap what you sow”, second question “but you are of the day and do not sleep like others sleep in the night, but are Awake” therefore watch?

still possibly on topic of: the ones who are left

 

[Naomi25]

In Context...in Brief.
Tribal members (all calling themselves Jews) are all brothers by RACE.
Jesus’ disciples were all brothers by RACE.
* Since Jesus was speaking face to face with them, Jesus was still present ON the earth.
* Since Jesus was speaking to them, the disciples, we know Jesus was speaking TO Jews.
* Since Jesus was speaking to Peter specifically, and Peter asked specifically about FORGIVING A BROTHER (who had SINNED against him) and the others disciples (also Jews) were present, we know Jesus was answering Peter, specifically....about Brothers (Jews) forgiving Brothers (Jews).
* We know the Disciples, Brothers, Jews...WERE STILL UNDER THE LAW...
And LEARNING something NEW.
* WHAT the Disciples, Brothers, Jews....WERE in the Process of LEARNING, is Jesus came to FORGIVE men of their SINS.
* WHAT applies to Tribes and Jews, UNDER THE LAW, IS a Violation of a LAW, that affected ONE Tribesman AGAINST another Tribesman, WAS A “SIN accounted to the Offender”.
* Since Peter, specifically Mentioned an Offense against a BROTHER, (JEW), as a SIN, Peter is verifying, THEY were still UNDER THE LAW, even while in the process of Learning something NEW.
* Jesus’ Response, DID NOT MENTION “FORGIVING SIN”. Jesus simply said, to FORGIVE the other (which Peter already identified as a Brother), repeatedly.
* Jesus’ presence ON earth is revealed, we know ALL Jesus came to do was not Yet Accomplished, per Isaiah 55:11.



Point being...Peter was inquiring about committing a VIOLATION toward a Brother (Jew), who like Peter, was Under the Law.

In Context of Scripture;
Scripture teaches for “ANYONE”, regardless of “Jewish Law”, regardless of “WHO” they are, or “WHERE” they are, (Jew or Gentile) to FORGIVE other men........”their”....... TRESPASSES .....Against you....and to ask other men....To FORGIVE......”your”....... TRESPASSES ....Against them.

Glory to God,
Taken

That..was being brief?!
And once again, someone has taken what is a simple and obvious answer from scripture, and tangled it up so tightly, that it has well and truly lost it’s meaning and what we need to take away from it.

It’s not about the law, or about being Jewish, or even trespasses strictly (and I disagree that ‘trespass is only man against man - Rom 5:17 tells us that it was ‘the trespass’ that saw mankind fall…and that was undoubtably against God). This passage is purely about forgiveness.
If we want to look back at the OT for some perspective and understanding, then we look at Job 33:29-30 and Amos 1:3; 2:6…from which Jewish tradition bases the idea that 3 times was sufficient to show a forgiving spirit. Peter clearly believes that asking if he forgives 7 times means he is showing great generosity of spirit, above and beyond what the religious culture required.

When Jesus responds ‘not 7, but 70x7!’ He is basically dismissing notions of numerical value. When we look at the parable Jesus tells after the “70x7”, we can see what he is speaking of. The master forgives a much greater debt. But then that servant turns around and refuses to forgive a debt owed to him…a much smaller debt.
The inference is clear. God has forgiven us our cosmic treason. Therefore we have no reason not to forgive those who sin against or offend us…comparatively speaking, those hurts are nothing.
Thus, when Jesus tells us ‘70x7’ he tells us to “keep on forgiving”.

So…the answer to my original question is: the numbers Christ used are symbolic of a greater truth. Extend forgiveness as long as God has extended grace to you; eternally.

 

[Naomi25]

God is outside of “TIME”. IOW not constrained by TIME.
God created “TIME”...(years, seasons, days, evenings, hours, etc.) FOR mankind, FOR signs, FOR preparations, FOR expectations.

What may seem like a long day, a long year, a long hour “to a man”.
Does not have the same EFFECT on God.
God does not “go to sleep”, wake up and wonder what the weather will be, wonder if he has time to mow the grass, wonder if his car will start, wonder if men “IN” Christ will “leave” Him....
Men sleep, Men wonder what will be, Men do not know all things, Men depend on Time.
God does not sleep, God does not wonder what will be, God knows all things, God does not depend on Time.

Glory to God,
Taken

So…when Peter uses the phrase 1000 years, we acknowledge it is being used in a way that is not literal. He is not speaking of an actual 1000 year period. He is talking about something, in God’s experience and ‘timing’, that seems strange and non-specific and not ‘actual time’ to us.
Correct?

 

[Taken]

That..was being brief?!
And once again, someone has taken what is a simple and obvious answer from scripture, and tangled it up so tightly, that it has well and truly lost it’s meaning and what we need to take away from it.

Yes, that was brief.
The tangling appears when one is not precise.

It’s not about the law, or about being Jewish, or even trespasses strictly (and I disagree that ‘trespass is only man against man - Rom 5:17 tells us that it was ‘the trespass’ that saw mankind fall…and that was undoubtably against God).

That passage informs you OF one mans OFFENSE...against God.
Nothing whatsoever informs us, that that one man KNEW his OFFENSE....against God WAS called A SIN.

Later, Men were taught, LAWS, and agreed to OBEY them.
Later, We learned WHEN men, Disobeyed a LAW, (they agreed to OBEY),
it was accounted to them, AS A SIN...

It is much LATER, OFFENSES...against Gods LAW (called a SIN)...
became OVERCOME, by JESUS FULFILLING THE LAW.

Jesus’ FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW....BY DEFAULT, MADE THE LAW, ....ALL THE “NEGATIVE” CONSEQUENCES “IN THE LAW”....OBSOLETE!
Any OT law that is fulfilled IS OBSOLETE..
Any NT law...(whether or not similar to an OT LAW)... IS precisely a NT LAW, under A NEW

Jesus’ PLAINLY revealed...He fulfilled the law, BUT DID NOT DeSTROY THE LAW....WHY?
Simply BECAUSE, men HAVE FREEWILL...
If one man wants to KEEP following the Law (that was fulfilled), and that same man wants to KEEP believing he IS Subject to the Law....HE CAN.
And IF you happen to notice.....MANY MEN, calling themselves JEWS, have elected to Continue following the Mosaic Law, Continue calling VIOLATIONS of the Law....SINS....and oops...can not continue Sacrificing ANIMAL BLOOD on the Altar “FOR FORGIVENESS OF THEIR SINS...for violating any of their MOASIC LAWS”...

This passage is purely about forgiveness.
If we want to look back at the OT for some perspective and understanding, then we look at Job 33:29-30 and Amos 1:3; 2:6…from which Jewish tradition bases the idea that 3 times was sufficient to show a forgiving spirit. Peter clearly believes that asking if he forgives 7 times means he is showing great generosity of spirit, above and beyond what the religious culture required.

When Jesus responds ‘not 7, but 70x7!’ He is basically dismissing notions of numerical value. When we look at the parable Jesus tells after the “70x7”, we can see what he is speaking of. The master forgives a much greater debt. But then that servant turns around and refuses to forgive a debt owed to him…a much smaller debt.
The inference is clear. God has forgiven us our cosmic treason. Therefore we have no reason not to forgive those who sin against or offend us…comparatively speaking, those hurts are nothing.
Thus, when Jesus tells us ‘70x7’ he tells us to “keep on forgiving”.

I am fully aware and precisely spoke about men “FORGIVING” men.

It boils down to ... DO YOU BELIEVE SIN is men AGAINST men, and Does Scripture teach you to FORGIVE SIN.

I recall, Jesus expressly being Given authority to Forgive men of Sin, and Jews accused Jesus of Blasphemy for “making Himself God”....as they knew ONLY God can forgive Sin.

So…the answer to my original question is: the numbers Christ used are symbolic of a greater truth. Extend forgiveness as long as God has extended grace to you; eternally.

God forgave a man repeatedly of SIN for violating the LAW, WHEN they were under the OLD covenant and used animal blood.
God forgives a man once of SIN for having disbelieved IN God and His Christ Messiah, WHEN they ARE under the NEW Covenant and Jesus gave HIS blood.

Certainly men are taught to repeatedly forgive men who trespass against them.

I look to Scripture FOR TRUTH.
I believe ALL Scripture IS TRUE.
I do NOT believe ALL Scripture APPLIES TO “ALL” individuals.
It is the INDIVIDUAL MAN, and God, who KNOWS Which Scriptures APPLIES to that Individual man....OR NOT....and the Individual SHOULD know WHY.

For Understanding I ask God.

 

[Timtofly]

Do you see a gap between the tares being removed in Matt 13 and when the wheat is then gathered? And, if you don’t mind me asking, why is either gathering (wheat or tares) significantly removed in time from a ‘Rapture’ when these 2 classes of people, righteous and unrighteous, are said to grow together throw ‘this age’? Not ‘through the tribulation period’, but ‘this age’.

If this is an ongoing phenomenon, are you saying the unrighteous have to die first, then a couple righteous can die?

At which age will all die at the same time?

 

[Naomi25]

Yes, that was brief.
The tangling appears when one is not precise.

It appears tangling may yet happen when preciseness is afforded to the wrong focus of a passage.

.
That passage informs you OF one mans OFFENSE...against God.
Nothing whatsoever informs us, that that one man KNEW his OFFENSE....against God WAS called A SIN.

Later, Men were taught, LAWS, and agreed to OBEY them.
Later, We learned WHEN men, Disobeyed a LAW, (they agreed to OBEY),
it was accounted to them, AS A SIN...

It is much LATER, OFFENSES...against Gods LAW (called a SIN)...
became OVERCOME, by JESUS FULFILLING THE LAW.

Jesus’ FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW....BY DEFAULT, MADE THE LAW, ....ALL THE “NEGATIVE” CONSEQUENCES “IN THE LAW”....OBSOLETE!
Any OT law that is fulfilled IS OBSOLETE..
Any NT law...(whether or not similar to an OT LAW)... IS precisely a NT LAW, under A NEW

Jesus’ PLAINLY revealed...He fulfilled the law, BUT DID NOT DeSTROY THE LAW....WHY?
Simply BECAUSE, men HAVE FREEWILL...
If one man wants to KEEP following the Law (that was fulfilled), and that same man wants to KEEP believing he IS Subject to the Law....HE CAN.
And IF you happen to notice.....MANY MEN, calling themselves JEWS, have elected to Continue following the Mosaic Law, Continue calling VIOLATIONS of the Law....SINS....and oops...can not continue Sacrificing ANIMAL BLOOD on the Altar “FOR FORGIVENESS OF THEIR SINS...for violating any of their MOASIC LAWS”...

This….would require a whole other conversational stream to deal with, and it is an aside from what we are speaking of. It does not, I believe, hold any particular influence or weight to our understanding of the passage in question, and thus I choose to leave it.

.




I am fully aware and precisely spoke about men “FORGIVING” men.

It boils down to ... DO YOU BELIEVE SIN is men AGAINST men, and Does Scripture teach you to FORGIVE SIN.

I recall, Jesus expressly being Given authority to Forgive men of Sin, and Jews accused Jesus of Blasphemy for “making Himself God”....as they knew ONLY God can forgive Sin.

How’s about this….in the paragraph above Matt 18:22, we see this:

Matthew 18:15-17
If Your Brother Sins Against You
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Jesus is CLEARLY addressing sin between two Christians here.
So yes, I believe what the bible says.

.
God forgave a man repeatedly of SIN for violating the LAW, WHEN they were under the OLD covenant and used animal blood.
God forgives a man once of SIN for having disbelieved IN God and His Christ Messiah, WHEN they ARE under the NEW Covenant and Jesus gave HIS blood.

Certainly men are taught to repeatedly forgive men who trespass against them.

I look to Scripture FOR TRUTH.
I believe ALL Scripture IS TRUE.
I do NOT believe ALL Scripture APPLIES TO “ALL” individuals.
It is the INDIVIDUAL MAN, and God, who KNOWS Which Scriptures APPLIES to that Individual man....OR NOT....and the Individual SHOULD know WHY.

For Understanding I ask God.

Another question. Why is Christ our advocate, if all we needed we salvific forgiveness with God, and then we’re done with him in the terms of forgiveness and mercy?
Why are we called to ‘repent’ of our sins as we commit them if all we needed was a one time salvific ‘forgiveness’.
Do not mistake me; FOR salvation, the one time was sufficient. But to disabuse the idea that sanctification is not an ongoing process where we repent and ask for forgiveness…and then are granted that forgiveness BECAUSE of our advocate…is anti-scriptural.

 

[Timtofly]

So…when Peter uses the phrase 1000 years, we acknowledge it is being used in a way that is not literal. He is not speaking of an actual 1000 year period. He is talking about something, in God’s experience and ‘timing’, that seems strange and non-specific and not ‘actual time’ to us.
Correct?

Actually not. God created in terms of Days, but we know they were not symbolic days, nor should they be taken as 1000 year periods.

Enter the Law and Exodus 20. Now God wants them to Remember a day of Adonai from thousands of years in the past. To relate time back to them, God pointed out that days to God passed like thousand year periods to humans. At least that was David's take away in the Psalms.

God does view literal 1000 years on earth as only days. Because God is still viewing creation and time in the equation. God is not trying to define eternity. Because eternity is not a very long time. Eternity is no time at all. So claiming that 1000 years is just symbolic and has no meaning, is just throwing God's creation back into His face. God is giving us the extent of creation, not making time meaningless.

 

[Taken]

So…when Peter uses the phrase 1000 years, we acknowledge it is being used in a way that is not literal. He is not speaking of an actual 1000 year period. He is talking about something, in God’s experience and ‘timing’, that seems strange and non-specific and not ‘actual time’ to us.
Correct?

I believe the Bible is literal.

 

[Naomi25]

If this is an ongoing phenomenon, are you saying the unrighteous have to die first, then a couple righteous can die?

At which age will all die at the same time?

I’m afraid I’m unsure by what you mean by an “ongoing phenomenon”. You might need to specify, especially since the rest of your question makes little sense to me.
Thanks.

 

[Naomi25]

Actually not. God created in terms of Days, but we know they were not symbolic days, nor should they be taken as 1000 year periods.

Enter the Law and Exodus 20. Now God wants them to Remember a day of Adonai from thousands of years in the past. To relate time back to them, God pointed out that days to God passed like thousand year periods to humans. At least that was David's take away in the Psalms.

God does view literal 1000 years on earth as only days. Because God is still viewing creation and time in the equation. God is not trying to define eternity. Because eternity is not a very long time. Eternity is no time at all. So claiming that 1000 years is just symbolic and has no meaning, is just throwing God's creation back into His face. God is giving us the extent of creation, not making time meaningless.

Sigh.
I am not…and neither is Peter…trying to make a point about how God created time, and how he therefore must dwell, in either a philosophical or scientific, within it.
Let’s quickly remember how we can use some linguistic tactics when discussing things:

“Symbolism: symbolic meaning attributed to natural objects or facts”
“Metaphor: a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else“

So a ‘symbol’ is something that can still represent ‘natural’ objects or facts. And a ‘metaphor’ can likewise be representative of something else. In this case, we would say that Peter is using the natural passing of time for us to explain and point out that such time passing is not so for God. He is not using a single day opposed to 1000 years as factual and needfully evidential in his point. He is throwing both of those figures out, as vast opposites in time (as we would see them) and saying to us that for God…someone outside of time…creator of time…they may as well be the same.

So, in that sense, yes…the ‘numbers’ Peter used are symbolic. They are symbolic in the context of what the Apostle is saying.

 

[Naomi25]

I believe the Bible is literal.

And I believe the bible is true.

The problem with insisting that “all the bible is literal!!!” Is that you inevitably bump into such problems as Jesus is a Lamb, and God is a giant chicken.
Clearly those things are metaphors…yes?

 

[Taken]

It appears tangling may yet happen when preciseness is afforded to the wrong focus of a passage.

This….would require a whole other conversational stream to deal with, and it is an aside from what we are speaking of. It does not, I believe, hold any particular influence or weight to our understanding of the passage in question, and thus I choose to leave it.

OK.

How’s about this….in the paragraph above Matt 18:22, we see this:

Matthew 18:15-17
If Your Brother Sins Against You
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Jesus is CLEARLY addressing sin between two Christians here.
So yes, I believe what the bible says.

The Speaker IS Jesus, speaking to his disciples...teaching THEM what to Teach TO?
(ANY men gathered and Listening).

“If your brother sins against you”....applies to a Jew (brother) against a Jew (brother) ...under the law.
Any man in the crowd listening, KNOWS IF he is a Jew or not.
(The direction is to go to him FIRST to resolve the differences, between the TWO, Jew and Jew.)

“If he listens to you”....(listens to you saying WHAT?)
The WHAT is saying, Jesus’ Covenant (not under the law),
So, “IF” he listens to you....accepts WHAT was said to him....
THEN WHAT?
“You have GAINED A BROTHER”....(wait, were they not ALREADY BROTHERS?)
“They ARE already brothers, Under the Law, both Jews”....and violation of mosaic law, IS a sin.
“They Become brothers, IN Christ, IF he listens to you.”....and agrees he is ‘no longer’ under the law.

SO...”IF” he (the Jewish brother) does not listen to you...then what?
DO according to Jewish Law, to settle the accused SIN violation of the Jewish Law.
Take your witness to the Jewish elders, state your accusation and against “whom”.(the Jewish brother).
The Jewish elders, will hear the accusation, hear the witnesses, and render their decision.
IF the Accused Jewish Brother, also Ignores the Jewish elders decision, to MAKE AMENDS for the Jewish Brother’,
...violation of the Law...
THEN...go to YOUR own “Brothers IN Christ”, in the Church, ie Church elders.
State your case to them. They render “their” decision, to the accused.
IF the “accused”....has rejected the JEWS decision...AND has rejected the CHURCHES decision...
Let your JEWISH BROTHER, be to YOU (who IS a Jew) as a Gentile and tax collector.

What was a Gentile and tax collector....AT THAT TIME “considered” TO BE?
An “unbeliever IN GOD”...”Against God”...”Without God”...

The teaching Result is for a Jew to treat his (BROTHER JEW), who rejected God and rejected Christ Jesus...
AS A “NON-BROTHER”.

What does that mean? How does a Jew, treat his Brother Jew, as a “NON-BROTHER” ?
IGNORE him. Do not invite him, include him, do business with him, hire him, be concerned about his woes, needs, wants, his business, begging for help, whatever....utterly IGNORE him.

The teaching, for A man IN Christ, and for A man IN Christ, who have differences....one has trespassed against the other....the Same Applies....GO First to the one who HAS Trespassed Against you...to try and remedy the Trespass the one did against the other....IF the two can settle between themselves...all is well.
IF not, those TWO brothers “IN” Christ, can take their case, and witnesses, and pleas of “accusation and denial” to the Church elders, for the Elders of the Church to decide the remedy.
They each can agree with and DO the remedy....or not.

In the US, Civil Laws, allow for one person (regardless of their religion), to file a charge Against an accused Trespasser. The court will hear the plea (request for the court to hear and decide), the court will hear the charge, the witnesses, the testimony of the accused and accuser, and render a verdict, then enforce the verdict be carried out.

Another question. Why is Christ our advocate, if all we needed we salvific forgiveness with God, and then we’re done with him in the terms of forgiveness and mercy?

Christ Jesus is a any mans ADVOCATE, ie go between, an Unsaved man (who desires to become MADE Saved) and God.
Think about it...God is supremely HOLY. That which IS “unholy”... is deflected away from Gods supreme HOLINESS.
Even Jews found it blasphemous for an unbelieving man to “utter” Gods HOLY NAME...
When an “unsaved man” desires to become MADE saved....um HOW does an “unsaved man” (who is NOT holy), Ask the HOLY GOD to Forgive him? When the HOLY GOD WILL NOT “HEAR” that (mans) which is “unholy”?
Dilemma?
That is where God Himself solves the dilemma. God Sent His Word, in the likeness as a man, to men, WITH Gods authorized POWER of Forgiveness, to forgive willing earthly men, who wanted Gods forgiveness, but could NOT speak directly to God or BE heard by God....Jesus was Appointed, Ordained Established BY God...to GIVE forgiveness to earthly men of their SIN against God....BY, THROUGH, OF....Jesus........
* IF an individual man, DOES heart-fully BELIEVE, in God, in Jesus, that God has given Jesus the Power, and Jesus IS the Power (Christ) to act on behalf of God (ie advocate)...AND an individual man FREELY, by his own will......chooses to call ON Jesus’ Name, to CONFESS TO Jesus, the individuals “””BELIEF””” and Desire to be MADE “changed”....JESUS.....WILL Hear that individual. AFTER “Jesus” HEARS the confession....THAT confession IS
(For lack of better words)...IS checked out, that it IS A TRUE HEARTFUL Confession.
How is THAT accomplished?
Since a True Heart-ful Confession IS REQUIRED...the Thoughts of the confessing individuals HEART is Searched, BY GOD....IF the individuals Confession IS a TRUE Heart-ful Confession.......THEN, by the POWER of God (who IS CHRIST)....that individual BECOMES Forgiven of his Sin Against God....AND Becomes “MADE” Changed, BY Gods Power and according to Gods Promise TO “make” such a man “Changed”.

ONCE...the INTERCESSION is Completed...that individual, had direct Communication WITH GOD...
Jesus no longer goes to God on that mans behalf.
Is Jesus “finished” with that man? No
Is that man “finished” with Jesus...or Christ? No
Christ is the Power of God, the Wisdom of God, the Seed of God.
Christ does all the changes IN a man.
Christ plants Gods Seed in a mans new circumcised natural heart.
That SEED, rebirths, a man natural spirit, (from a mans seed, natural truth, in natural heart), TO a supernatural spirit, that can never die, called “born again”, in a new heart.
Jesus is the Word of God, that is called the Spirit of Truth, which FEEDS the new sprit, in the new heart, Gods Truth.
Christ being the Wisdom of God, IS the Spirit that gives that man, the Understanding OF Gods Understanding OF Gods Word of Truth.
Jesus (Word) the Christ,(Power, wisdom, seed) and God the Father, (in heaven) are ALL spiritually WITHIN that individual man...called that man having received the “comforter”, ie the Holy Ghost, ie the Holy Spirit, ie Gods supernatural BAPTISM...
The Understanding IS...God is never in conflict with Himself, not his word, not his power, not his wisdom, not his seed....all together they are ONE God in unison, “WITH” and “IN” ..that ONE man...
“WITH” that ONE man.....FOREVER.

And who that IS WITH that one man FOREVER....is the wholeness OF GOD...
The Lord God Almighty.

Why are we called to ‘repent’ of our sins as we commit them if all we needed was a one time salvific ‘forgiveness’.
Do not mistake me; FOR salvation, the one time was sufficient. But to disabuse the idea that sanctification is not an ongoing process where we repent and ask for forgiveness…and then are granted that forgiveness BECAUSE of our advocate…is anti-scriptural.

I repented TO the Lord, as required, being the VERY preliminary prelude to being MADE changed, By Gods Promise, of change given me, IF I confess a true Heart-ful confession which I did.

I fully TRUST Gods Promise of Forgiveness, and fully TRUST Gods Promise of His works of Change IN me, and fully TRUST God is fully, His Word, His Spirit, His Power ...... IS WITH, and IS IN me....

I do NOT BELIEVE for one moment, GOD DWELLS IN SIN.
If YOU believe GOD dwells IN YOU ... WHILE YOU CONTINUE TO COMMIT SIN...
That dilemma is yours, not mine.
You have to figure out...HOW GOD, IS IN YOU, IN THE PRESENCE OF YOU COMMITTING SIN, WHEN GOD DOES NOT DWELL IN SIN.

Twisted teaching, thank a long Catholic tradition.

You think you continue to sin (WHILE Gods spirit is IN YOU?) and thus you continue ask forgiveness of sins?
Since that is your position, HOW are you determining WHAT is A SIN.....OT LAWS?
And WHAT are these sins you are committing?
ARE you denying God?
ARE you preaching against God?

You will have to clarify your position of how you determine you are committing a sin..the Law? Something else?
You will have to clarify your position of WHO you are sinning Against? God a man, and what exactly IS an example of such committed sin?
You will have to clarify WHO you are asking to repeatedly forgive your commission of Sin.

 

[Taken]

And I believe the bible is true.

The problem with insisting that “all the bible is literal!!!” Is that you inevitably bump into such problems as Jesus is a Lamb, and God is a giant chicken.
Clearly those things are metaphors…yes?

I believe the Bible is true.
You elect to use language men have devised to explain Scripture they can not explain.

Jesus IS the Lamb of God.
Is that ^ to SAY Jesus is a four legged animal, “according to a mans understanding” of what an animal is that is called by the identity of a lamb?

Or is that...Jesus IS the Lamb of God...to SAY God calls things as He pleases? Period.
I simply leave it at, God calls things as He pleases, without adding, what God means or doesn’t mean.

Just saying....what is a lamb, according to a mans understanding? An animal. A white four legged animal, a black four legged animal, a spotted four legged animal, a gentle four legged animal, a stubborn four legged animal, a small four legged animal, a big four legged animal, skinny four legged animal, a woolly four legged animal.....what metaphor, are individual men deciding? IDK

 

[Earburner]

You make such a pronouncement as if your point is self evident…it is not.

I cannot speak for other translations, but I use the ESV, which is based upon the Masoretic texts. Within the editions used for translations I do believe the Novum Testamentum Graece (28th ed) was, in some cases, drawn upon, which itself drew upon some of Hort and Wescotts work.
How their work was inferior or superior, subjectively, to that of Erasmus’, is something I suppose we could debate, but without having studied them in depth, it would seem, I fear, rather foolish to do so.
And, I cannot help thinking, also seems to be rather beside the point.

"There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner.

 

[Earburner]

^ which points to:
John 4[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Which in turn leads to:
John 16[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Culminating in:
John 14[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Earburner]

"In Christ, there is no differnce between a Good sinner and a Bad sinner."- Earburner

 

[Naomi25]

OK.

Well first of all you changed what the Bible says, then you agree with what you changed it to.

Excuse me? I CHANGED what the bible says? That is a serious charge, and I would hope before slinging something like that out, you would take the short amount of time needed to CHECK you weren’t blowing smoke.
I most certainly did NOT change it. The ESV says “SIN”. The Greek is ἁμαρτάνω, hamartanó, which is used, almost consistently, as “sin”.
Quite frankly, I do not want to waste the time I have conversing with someone who feels it appropriate to make such serious charges, charges he hasn’t taken the time to check, all because, it seems, it opposes the point he is attempting to make. It does not incline me to have much respect for anything else you have to say.

 

[Earburner]

"For one to be "sin-less" before the Father, that is only made possible through faith in the shed Blood of Christ.

However, for one to be literally "sin-free", that will only take place, when we are bodily resurrected after Christ's likeness"- Earburner