The Three that Bear Witness 1 John 5:7-9

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quietthinker

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No, the whole world and history thereof, is simply a witness to and of itself...and it doesn't matter who is paying attention or not-- it simply brings everything to light. Period. Then comes the Judgement. The end.
you've missed the point!
 

OneIsTheWord

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Greetings
maybe this can help
Col 2:9 (NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Romans 1:19-24 (KJV) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:

Acts 17:29 (KJV) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Mark 9:23-24 (NKJV) Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes."
Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!"
 

quietthinker

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There is no such word in the Bible. It was made up by the church to infer that there was a trinity.
Colossians 2:9 says in the KJV and other similar translations....
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

But the word translated “godhead” in Greek is “theótes”, and this is the only use of the word in the whole of the Christian Greek Scriptures. The same is true of a similar Greek word, theiótes, which appears only at Romans 1:20, which the KJV renders as....... ”For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse”.

Liddell and Scott’s A Greek-English Lexicon, in its new ninth edition, Volume I, defines the two terms in the light of ancient usages apart from the Scriptures. Theiótes it defines as “divine nature, divinity”. Theótes it defines in exactly the same way, as “divinity, divine nature,” and then cites as an example Colossians 2:9.

So being divine does not necessarily make one a deity. Jesus can have a divine nature without being God.
He only ever identified himself as “the Son of God”. Never is he said the be “God the Son”....a term invented by trinitarians.
Dissecting the anatomy of a hand and knowing its constituent parts is a far cry from 'hearing' a tender touch!
 

quietthinker

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You asked a question. I answered.

Rephrase if you like. Or not.
The Father sent the Son for what? wasn't it to be a witness? The Son came as a witness to what? The Spirit's purpose is to impress on the understanding of the hearers this witness.....what is it? ie, what are they witnessing to?

If you were in a courtroom for the purpose of being a witness, you are there for a specific purpose. If you start waffling on about something not related to what you claim to have witnessed, you'll be thrown out by the Judge......you'd be categorised as a waffler not a witness.
 

ScottA

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The Father sent the Son for what? wasn't it to be a witness? The Son came as a witness to what? The Spirit's purpose is to impress on the understanding of the hearers this witness.....what is it? ie, what are they witnessing to?

If you were in a courtroom for the purpose of being a witness, you are there for a specific purpose. If you start waffling on about something not related to what you claim to have witnessed, you'll be thrown out by the Judge......you'd be categorised as a waffler not a witness.
I heard you the first time, and answered with the truth. In which case, the Judge knows the truth and will not throw me out.

Or was that you judging?
 

quietthinker

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I heard you the first time, and answered with the truth. In which case, the Judge knows the truth and will not throw me out.

Or was that you judging?
You're not getting it Scott. You heard my words but you didn't hear its objective. Think laterally!
 

OneIsTheWord

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Shouldn’t the more relevant question be “why did Christ come?” Because scripture tells us clearly “how” he came.

To understand why Christ came is a way more important question IMO.

Can you answer that for me...?

As regards 1 John 5:7-9...
For there are three witness bearers: 8 the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

9 If we accept the witness of men, the witness of God is greater. Because this is the witness God gives, the witness that he has given about his Son.”


The first rendering you gave is spurious, but the second is accurate.
There is no trinity identified in 1 John 5:7-8.

And if we accept the teaching of three gods, (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is not one God) then we have accepted the witness of men, not the witness of God in his word where these titles are completely missing in connection with Jesus and the holy spirit.

Jesus never once claimed to be God, nor did he ever say that he was equal to his God and Father. You will not find trinitarian teaching in anything he said.....it is all implied in ambiguous scripture, rendered by men to support a grossly blasphemous error.

The holy spirit is never called “God” either. It is called “God’s spirit” because it is the power that emanates from God to accomplish his will. He can also give this power to others.


When Jesus said in John 16:7-8...(as rendered in the Authorized Version) “If I go not away, the Comforter [pa·raʹkle·tos] will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world . . . when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.”
It uses a masculine pronoun [e·keiʹnos] in reference to the Spirit even though [pneuʹma, spirit] is neuter in gender, therefore John 15:26 says..."But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (KJV) The "Comforter" (helper) is masculine gender and the pronouns associated with it will be masculine...it is not indicating personhood.


Yes, the ones who have God's spirit (genuinely) will know the truth from the errors proffered by men. But we also know that satan has the ability to "blind the minds" (2 Corinthian 4:3-4) of those who don't really love the truth, but who are intent on supporting their cherished falsehoods in spite of what the scriptures say. (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)

How do we know what 'camp' we are in? When Jesus comes to separate the "sheep from the goats" there is no ambiguity about the destiny of each group. (Matthew 25:31-34; 41, 46) All mankind will be judged to be in one group or the other. (Matthew 7:21-23) Like the two roads that Jesus also spoke about, (Matthew 7:13-14).....one leads to life, the other to "destruction".....all of us are on one road or the other.....truth and falsehood is all there is. God promotes one...the devil promotes the other.....our own hearts decide which to follow....

Yes I understand, I see your point
Please bear will me
As regards 1 John 5:7-9...
[/QUOTE]“For there are three witness bearers: the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
If we accept the witness of men, the witness of God is greater. Because this is the witness God gives, the witness that he has given about his Son.”

the three are, one the spirit of God as I understand, by water is Holy Spirit, and by blood, John the baptist confirmed Christ is Christ
Christ came by water and blood, this is manifest in the flesh
the three are confirmed, a man, John the baptist confirmed Christ

John 1:6-13 (NKJV)There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
He was not that Light but
was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light that gives light to every man coming into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God?


In Matthew 3:13-17 (NKJV)Then Jesus came from Galilee to John the baptist at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?"
But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him.
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Three that bear witness

1 Tim 3:14-16 (KJV) These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifest in the flesh,

Justified in the Spirit, seen of angels,

Preached unto the Gentiles,

Believed on in the world,

Received up into glory.
The Resurrection

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Aunty Jane

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Ohhh man, you guys really like the words! ....lots of them.
LOL....:D some of us don’t have the attention span of a goldfish, and actually like to read well presented information...it’s how we learn.....well some of us appreciate the effort, anyway.....:p

Now, as for your last comment.....
Dissecting the anatomy of a hand and knowing its constituent parts is a far cry from 'hearing' a tender touch!
You must be good at cryptic crosswords because I find your references to be very cryptic, so as to be most ambiguous....can you not speak in straight up English? I am no good at riddles.....:confused:
 
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ScottA

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You're not getting it Scott. You heard my words but you didn't hear its objective. Think laterally!
You're not being clear, nor have you explained yourself.

Whatever.
 

Wrangler

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The Three that Bear Witness 1 John 5:7-9
What do they bear witness to?

Answer: That Jesus is NOT God, incarnate, but the Anointed. Who was Jesus Anointed by? By the LORD God almighty, not his Father but our Father. At least, according to Jesus and how he taught us to pray.
 

quietthinker

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LOL....:D some of us don’t have the attention span of a goldfish, and actually like to read well presented information...it’s how we learn.....well some of us appreciate the effort, anyway.....:p

Now, as for your last comment.....

You must be good at cryptic crosswords because I find your references to be very cryptic, so as to be most ambiguous....can you not speak in straight up English? I am no good at riddles.....:confused:
I suppose those who write lots of words to explain something simple assume they have the attention span of something great.

There is a good reason Solomon writes 'a fool is known by his many words'

I also think that the brevity of all the recorded words of Jesus in his 3 1/2 year ministry is deliberate. His parables are intended to stimulate thought as opposed to pouring out pseudo wisdom.

The danger of 'lots of words' is that men get lost in their justifications to keep their ego's in tact......they do this because they cannot see the often obvious.
 

quietthinker

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You're not being clear, nor have you explained yourself.

Whatever.
look at it like this Scott.....the lack of clarity you experience is not in the lack of my explanation but rather your inability to hear and process a simple question
You might ask yourself why that is the case; there is a reason for it!
 

quietthinker

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Are there any benefits? For instance, many would say that God could not get his point across without writing 66 books, are also 'lots of words'. Does that mean God is also foolish per Solomon's maxim?
Those 66 books span a record of human history, approx 4000 yrs.....you think there are too many words? Look up the recorded history of let's say America in the last 200 yrs. There are probably that many books written they wouldn't all fit into the back of your local pick up truck.....it'll give a perspective.
 

ScottA

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look at it like this Scott.....the lack of clarity you experience is not in the lack of my explanation but rather your inability to hear and process a simple question
You might ask yourself why that is the case; there is a reason for it!
No, not the problem, I have the mind of Christ. In which case, the whole matter has only brought you more foolishly into the light.

But, still willing, I am, if you would like to try comprehensive English.
 
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Wrangler

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Are there any benefits? For instance, many would say that God could not get his point across without writing 66 books, are also 'lots of words'. Does that mean God is also foolish per Solomon's maxim?

BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! .....you think there are too many words? BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! .....

Not an answer to my 2 simple yes or no questions:
  1. Are there any benefits to using 'lots of words'?
  2. Is God foolish for using 'lots of words' per Solomon's maxim?
Yes or no?
 

quietthinker

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No, not the problem, I have the mind of Christ. In which case, the whole matter has only brought you more foolishly into the light.

But, still willing, I am, if you would like to try comprehensive English.
By your own admission, you don't understand the question.....now that's a curious thing!

What were they witnesses to? ...to what? Is this question really that difficult?
Considering that the religious folk in Jesus day didn't understand his objectives/ purposes, could it be that the same blindness/inability to see, is still prevalent?

Men build Cathedrals and all the associated pomp.....funny hats, bells and smells and what not else all in the name of worshipping Jesus.
Men establish theological colleges and give each other titles that are nothing short of blasphemous because somehow it validates their egos.

Men engage is countless lengthy discourses in an attempt to explain a carpenter's trajectory but only for the purpose of making proselytes to their own imagined course. They assume that when Jesus said 'come to me all you who are heavy laden and I will give you rest' is an invitation to build institutions to fleece the people and fill their own coffers.

Men take the simple and invert it. Men take the easy to understand and shut their eyes to it because it doesn't fit their perceptions......and when their eyes are closed they boast about their vision.

The question is simple......what are the The Father, the Son and the Spirit witnesses to?