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The Three that Bear Witness 1 John 5:7-9

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by OneIsTheWord, Jan 12, 2022.

  1. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    The trinity is a very important topic because, if it is erroneous, then the consequences of accepting and promoting it will be dire. It is a clear breach of the First Commandment to put other "gods" in the Father's place. (Exodus 20:3) Christendom has put not one, but two more gods in the Father's place.

    I can see that you are inserting ideas that are not really there....that is reading into scripture what Christ never taught. There is no scripture that directly says that Jesus is Almighty God and that he is part of a three in one "godhead". Not one.


    John was the son of Salome and Zechariah who were relatives of Mary. That makes John a cousin of Jesus and most probably heard from his parents about the circumstances of the miraculous birth of both of them. He had grown up knowing that he had an important role to play in the Messiah's acceptance.

    The world was made "through" him not by him. Colossians 1:15-17 makes that clear. Jesus is God's firstborn son, created before anything else. (Revelation 3:14) He was used by his Father to create all things, but he is never once said to be "the Creator."

    This is called agency....through Jesus, as his representative, Jehovah acts and directs all things. There is only one God and like us, Jesus is God's "servant" (Acts 4:27).....not just any servant, but a trusted son, and "holy servant" who always did the will of his Father...never his own. (John 5:30)


    Again you are assuming to interpret scripture in the way that supports the trinity.
    The water of Baptism is a symbolism...not of the holy spirit, but of Jesus' dying to his former course in life and beginning a new dedicated ministry and relationship with his God and Father.

    Baptism is a symbolic death, burial and a resurrection.....Christ had no sins to repent of...that is why John was reluctant to baptize him. Unlike the Jews, baptism for Christians was not for repentance of sins, because it was Jesus' blood that cleansed them from sin. (1 John 1:7) Christian baptism was a dedicating of oneself to God to do his will first in life.....as Jesus said, only those "doing the will of the Father" will gain entry into the Kingdom of God. Those found not doing so would be rejected. (Matthew 7:21-23)

    Ok....the KJV is a very poor translation I'm afraid....so biased towards the trinity it isn't funny.

    This is how the NASB renders these verses....
    "I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; 15 but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one should act in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. 16 Beyond question, great is the mystery of godliness:

    He who was revealed in the flesh,
    Was vindicated in the Spirit,
    Seen by angels,
    Proclaimed among the nations,
    Believed on in the world,
    Taken up in glory."


    It does not say in the original Greek that "God was manifest in the flesh"......
    It says "he who was manifest in the flesh" which was Jesus Christ....not God.

    I assure you that there is not a single scripture in the NT that directly states that Jesus is the same God as his Father....or even equal to him in any way. The holy spirit is never once called "God the Holy Spirit". These titles were made up to lead people astray from the truth.

    If Jesus never taught about a triune god, then it cannot be true.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
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  2. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    In one sentence?.....The will and purpose of God. I could write a book about that topic....but not for you...
     
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  3. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus came for something, was it not for God's purpose.....the question is, what was that purpose? You don't need to tell me...tell the World.....your claim is to be Jehovah's Witness......well what is that witness?
     
  4. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Your 1st problem is relying on a translation with 'James' in the title. God dwelling in Jesus ≠ God incarnate.

    You see, all that is God, all His fullness, resides in His body (The Voice)
     
  5. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    The witness that, through God's Kingdom and by means of the ransom Christ paid to redeem mankind, we get to have in the end, what Adam threw away at the beginning.....everlasting life in paradise on earth.

    Is that simple enough for you?
     
  6. OneIsTheWord

    OneIsTheWord Member

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    Greetings
    Yes I agree that why from what I understand from scripture, that those of God's chosen, which give us, meaning those His Spirt giving those to Christ for a future event
    Galatians 4: 5. Romans 8: 15, and Ephesians 1: 5. and one reference to the adoption by God of Israel, to the people of Israel. Romans 9: 4
     
  7. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    Consider this....the witness of Jesus and that which the Spirit brings to our awareness is the character of God ie, what God is like.
    This question is seminal. It was Lucifer who raised this question and put doubt into the minds of intelligent beings whether they were angels or from other worlds.
    It was a question the whole Universe needed answering ie, was God's government what he claimed, ie, was it based on love or was it a dictatorship in need of an update according to Lucifers designs?

    God's condescension as a man; his walk amongst us revealed the nature of God....this is what he was a witness to....a faithful witness. All he said, did and submitted himself to, even to death revealed the truth of God's character.

    Those who know him, those who have his Spirit will be witnesses of the same.....that God is light and in him is no darkness at all.
     
  8. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    I gave you the answer already, but because of your own emotional pet peeve, you too suffer the same blindness of which you rant.
     
  9. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    First of all satan is never called Lucifer in the Bible.

    Second, why would an angel rebel and throw God's original purpose completely out of kilter by misrepresenting him and slandering him? What did he expect to gain?

    All God ever asked of his free willed children was their obedience......since both humans and angels can experience death (though in different ways) death was the highest penalty they could pay for their disobedience....for the humans disobedience concerning God's one command concerning the TKGE....and for angels in God's service, disobedience meant the termination of their existence, but not until God's purpose for this exercise is completed.
    When the foretold "end" of the present world system comes, we still have a thousand years to go until all is put to right.....God is not finished with satan and his demons until that thousand years us up. (Revelation 20:1-3)

    The difference between the rebel angels and the rebel humans was that God sent a savior for the humans who inherited a debt of sin from their father Adam, through no fault on their part.....the angels and the first humans had no such inheritance. Their sin was not forgivable because it was wilful and deliberate. God's children in both realms needed to make some decisions about obedience....God would give them ample time and many examples, both good and bad, written in his book, to help them to make the right choices.

    God sent his Christ into the world to walk among mankind and to teach them about his Father....and then to give his life to balance the scales of God's perfect justice.....after his mission was successfully completed, he returned to heaven, and his Father appointed him as judge and King of the kingdom that would rule mankind for 1,000 years, and take them back to the original conditions of Eden that Adam had lost for them....with no sin, ageing or death. (Revelation 21:3-4) It was after all, his first purpose, never to be derailed because of rebellion in either realm. (Isaiah 55:11)

    The object lesson has proven that faithful obedience to God was always the best choice....humans acting independent of God are useless and bring nothing but trouble on themselves and everyone else.
     
  10. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea where you get this story for it is certainly not the story I get when I read the scriptures.

    From the outset of your post 'First of all satan is never called Lucifer in the Bible.' surprises me. To say this indicates you have never come across Isaiah 14:12-21 and it appears from your story that much else has not come from the scriptures either.
     
  11. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Click on the link....it depends on which translation you use....
    The Hebrew word translated “Lucifer” means “shining one.” The Septuagint uses the Greek word that means “bringer of dawn.” Hence, some translations render the original Hebrew “morning star” or “Daystar.” But Jerome’s Latin Vulgate uses “Lucifer” (light bearer), and this accounts for the appearance of that term in various versions of the Bible.

    This is what Isaiah prophetically commanded the Israelites to pronounce as a “proverbial saying against the king of Babylon.” Thus, it is part of a saying primarily directed at the Babylonian dynasty. That the description “shining one” is given to a man and not to a spirit creature is further seen by the statement: “Down to Sheol you will be brought.” Sheol is the common grave of mankind—not a place occupied by Satan the Devil. Moreover, those seeing Lucifer brought into this condition ask: “Is this the man that was agitating the earth?” Clearly, “Lucifer” refers to a human, not to a spirit.

    On the contrary...it is entirely from scripture....just not from Christendom’s interpretation.
     
  12. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    'He has filled the hungry with good things but has sent the rich away empty.' Luke 1:53
     
  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Not really. That is only odd for those who are spiritually blind.
     
  14. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Absurd Appeal to Ad Homenim. You personally attack because you lost the argument.

    Contradictions don’t exist in reality. Dualism = accepting contradictions as both being true.

    Trinitarians must accept contradictions as both being true because your doctrine is inherently contradictory. Having ‘spiritual vision’ does not change that. It’s not about vision or perception but conception.
     
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  15. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Seriously QT....cryptic again? How is anyone supposed to know what you think if you cannot convey your responses in plain English?

    No one knows what you mean except you......that is not a conversation.
     
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  16. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    How ever will you understand prophecy if you can not decipher the cryptic AJ?
     
  17. OneIsTheWord

    OneIsTheWord Member

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    Greetings
    If I may
    I started this subject and put these verses of words to understand the Church, only one has given me an answer, I don't understand the argument about something your very words don't even believe in, you only have titles in a sense of words, but I'm new at this
     
  18. OneIsTheWord

    OneIsTheWord Member

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    Warning against Apostasy
    Someone said that the King James Bible was very poor English; it was in England that we get our modern-day English

    Just an example of translations
    England English words Hebrews 5:10-12 (KJV)
    Called of God a high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
    Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
    For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God, and are become such as have to need of milk, and not of strong meat.


    English Standard Version words (ESV) Hebrews 5:10-12 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain since you have become dull of hearing.

    New American Standard Bible words (NASB) Hebrews 5:10-12 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is difficult to explain, since you have become poor listeners.

    There are about 75 translations of the Lord’s words, the King James Bible is good for me, challenging words

    I use the (NKJV) to help study Thomas Nelson
    Hebrews 5:10-12 (NKJV)
    called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,"
    of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
    For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.


     
  19. Desire Of All Nations

    Desire Of All Nations Active Member

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    What you see in those passages don't equate to those passages teaching a trinity. What is perhaps the biggest hole in the trinitarian assumption is the fact that Jhn 1 contradicts this belief as fraudulent in verses 14 and 18. The Word didn't become the Son until He was begotten via God's Spirit as a human being. There's no way to rationalize those verses away as saying something else. The entirety of Jhn 1:1-18 clearly teaches that Jesus pre-existed as the Word before He was begotten as human, and therefore the Son did have a beginning.

    Before someone assumes i am saying Jesus is not God, that is not the message i am conveying at all. What am i saying is the trinitarian view that Jesus was always the Son is completely wrong. It is obviously wrong to read trinitarian views of any kind into the OT primarily because the NT clearly states that the Son didn't always exist. The whole problem with trinitarians is that they fail to realize the lack of logic in arguing that their understanding of the OT is correct and at the same time believe Jesus is God in the flesh.
     
  20. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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