When to Leave Church

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Christ4Me

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Just because Satan uses something for evil, does not make the thing evil itself.

It does when the devil has been speaking in gibberish nonsense before Pentecost came with God's gift of togues which is a foreign language.

Let me ask you this, how can sinners in idolatry and the occult know if they have departed from those spirits and that kind of tongue if Christians do the same thing?

How can churches know that those sinners have departed from that kind of tongue & those spirits if they have that same kind of tongue which they assume is for private use?

Therefore the real God's gift of tongues is a foreign language to speak unto the people and it WILL come with interpretation in the assembly.

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

God looks upon the heart. A persons tongue may or may not be. I will not assume on them unless God makes it abundantly clear!

If someone is a Pentecostal, they have far more serious issues than tongues. But this I do know, if a person desires to worship God with tongues, God looks upon the heart and not the outside! If I am tasked with discipling them I will gently instruct them and let God sort it out! If their tongues is not from God, He will show it and in the right time rid them of it.

Not every believer will test the spirits and the tongues they bring because they want to believe that special phenomenon was of God. Therefore their heart is not right with the Lord then when they believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again for why God would permit that strong delusion to occur as those seducing spirits bring that tongue of gibberish nonsense with them as mediums & wizards do by that sign of tongues.

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man:
 

Ronald Nolette

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That my friends is the only hope for salvation that one will ever have . Let none be taken into
this all inclusive many path lie . ITS JESUS ALONE that one must BELIEVE in to be saved .

Always been true! When one has placed their trust in teh death and resurrection of Jesus for their salvation, they are family. While we all should strive to be free from false teachings, in these last days that is hard. So we have family with differences. Some are minor like tongues, and some are major like trusting in Jesus alone is not enough.

Some we tolerate in love and teh big ones we must resist.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Let me ask you this, how can sinners in idolatry and the occult know if they have departed from those spirits and that kind of tongue if Christians do the same thing?

How can churches know that those sinners have departed from that kind of tongue & those spirits if they have that same kind of tongue which they assume is for private use?

Same way they can know they are saved- by the witness of God the Holy Spirit in them. I am convinced most tongues today are a religious hysterias type of tongues and not the real gift. But I also know the god in heaven! I know He looks upon the hearts of His children. If they are trying to worship and praise Him and have been led astray by bad teaching- then like a good shepherd, He will lead them back to the still waters and green pastures.

This is my last post.
You seem obsessed by tongues when you are making a mountain out of a speck of sand. There is a time and place to in love confront people who may not have the gift and are just babblikng, but it is always ot be in love. Church discipline ios always for the purpose of reconciliation and not to call down fire and brimstone over som ebad issue or teaching someone has been ensnared by!
 

Christ4Me

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Same way they can know they are saved- by the witness of God the Holy Spirit in them. I am convinced most tongues today are a religious hysterias type of tongues and not the real gift. But I also know the god in heaven! I know He looks upon the hearts of His children. If they are trying to worship and praise Him and have been led astray by bad teaching- then like a good shepherd, He will lead them back to the still waters and green pastures.

This is my last post.
You seem obsessed by tongues when you are making a mountain out of a speck of sand. There is a time and place to in love confront people who may not have the gift and are just babbling, but it is always to be in love. Church discipline ios always for the purpose of reconciliation and not to call down fire and brimstone over some bad issue or teaching someone has been ensnared by!

Revelation 2:18-25 refers to these saved believers in having gone astray knowing the depths of Satan for which they speak; hence tongues for private use as found in the occult. That kind of tongue cannot be found in Christianity for then how can any church get ready for the Bridegroom?

The risk is being left behind. Although still saved, they were out to the market getting filled with oil while those ready know they have always been Spirit-filled since salvation for why there is no other calling and how they were ready to go when the Bridegroom had come Matthew 25:1-13
 

Ronald Nolette

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Revelation 2:18-25 refers to these saved believers in having gone astray knowing the depths of Satan for which they speak; hence tongues for private use as found in the occult. That kind of tongue cannot be found in Christianity for then how can any church get ready for the Bridegroom?

The risk is being left behind. Although still saved, they were out to the market getting filled with oil while those ready know they have always been Spirit-filled since salvation for why there is no other calling and how they were ready to go when the Bridegroom had come Matthew 25:1-13

YOu falsely use verses to condemn a pet peeve of yours. No believer will be left behind. The rapture is not based on lack of error.

there is nothing in REv. 2 to say any of the satanic depths is speaking in tongues. Nor is there any condemnations for speaking or praying in tongues.

Matt. 25 is saved and unsaved people! Oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit and those who had no poil were unsaved already! they didn't lose salvation. I believe the lamps represent their testimony and the unsaved were probably reliugious but unsaved people.

1 Corinthians 14:4
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

1 Corinthians 14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Paul said there is both speaking and praying in tongues. the Word of God should be enough for us!

Now th eabuse and misuse and misunderstanding of tongues is another topic altogether.
 

Christ4Me

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YOu falsely use verses to condemn a pet peeve of yours. No believer will be left behind. The rapture is not based on lack of error.

there is nothing in REv. 2 to say any of the satanic depths is speaking in tongues. Nor is there any condemnations for speaking or praying in tongues.

Okay. I see the problem now. This site's use of ESV for the Revelation 2:18-25 is differently written as the KJV has it.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. KJV

As you can see now in the KJV as referring to what I was sharing before BUT the warning of the church to repent or be cast into the bed of the great tribulation is still seen in both versions.

For those wanting to compare the KJV with ESV of Revelation 2:18-25 can do so at this link; Revelation 2:18-25 KJV;ESV - And unto the angel of the church in - Bible Gateway

Matt. 25 is saved and unsaved people! Oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit and those who had no poil were unsaved already! they didn't lose salvation. I believe the lamps represent their testimony and the unsaved were probably reliugious but unsaved people.

The ten virgins, the ones engaged to the Bridegroom ARE the kingdom of heaven in verse 1 but five were foolish in that kingdom of heaven for why they were not ready for the Bridegroom when He had come. They were shut out from that wedding reception in that kingdom of heaven but they are still in that kingdom of heaven.

Since both are saved, & engaged to the Bridegroom, the oil of the wise are those that know they have been always Spirit-filled since salvation for why they were ready to go, and the foolish are those out to the market seeking to be filled with the oil to be symbolic of those that seek after another baptism with the holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, also known as the second blessing, but it does not stop there. There are more fillings of the holy Spirit after other sensational signs in the flesh like slain in the spirit & holy laughter movement, Toronto's Blessings and Pensacola outpouring, and even Ernest Angeley's healing Crusade where he announces the "Holy Spirit" coming to fall on the already saved believer that is seeking a miracle that causes him or her to lose self control & fall backwards.

If a believer believes one lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again after salvation for that sign of tongues, then they can believe the other lies. I recall someone mocking a second blessing believer who did not believe slain in the spirit & holy laughter was not of Him, and he tried to stop it, but the mocking believer testified that he lost self control and fell also. So an evil tree cannot produce a good fruit and a good tree cannot produce an evil fruit; therefore for those of the second blessing to judge the chaos in other movements of the "spirit" as not of Him at all, then neither is the second blessing because that which they condemn came by the same tree of receiving the Holy Spirit again after a sign apart from salvation.

1 Corinthians 14:4
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

1 Corinthians 14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Paul said there is both speaking and praying in tongues. the Word of God should be enough for us!

Now th eabuse and misuse and misunderstanding of tongues is another topic altogether.

No. In context of 1 Corinthians 14:1-4, Paul is giving a message about when believers seek spiritual gifts, to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts and began to show why by comparing tongues against prophesy to illustrate that tongues is not a stand alone gift. Tongues can edify once it is interpreted by another but it is a mystery to himself until it is interpreted to be edifying to himself. It is not self edifying until it is; hence not a stand alone gift to seek after for why the gift of prophesy was way better than tongues.

In 1 Corinthians 14:13-14, you have to apply verse 13 to 14 to know exactly what Paul is meaning here, because he is not praying in tongues per se when you apply verse 13, but praying for the interpretation of that tongue while the Holy Spirit is manifesting tongues through him.

Only God can settle you down to be able to listen to His words so you can stop following the stranger's voice and follow His voice instead, the Bible.
 

Marymog

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When a church refuses correction by the scripture and refuses to depart from iniquity, leave the church.
Hello Christ4Me,

WHO decides if a church needs correction in their teaching?

Curious Mary
 

Ronald Nolette

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The ten virgins, the ones engaged to the Bridegroom ARE the kingdom of heaven in verse 1 but five were foolish in that kingdom of heaven for why they were not ready for the Bridegroom when He had come. They were shut out from that wedding reception in that kingdom of heaven but they are still in that kingdom of heaven.

Since both are saved, & engaged to the Bridegroom,

Wrong. You need to do a study of the Jewish wedding system and then you will understand. the virgins are youngf girls who today would be bridesmaids. they would keep watch for the groom to come and announce to teh bride that he has arrived. Then when they were wed, teh bridesmaids would be invited into the wedding feast. So no, they are not all saved. Only the ones with oil (symbol of teh Holy Spirit) are saved and enter in.

Every Christian will go up in the rapture!

If a believer believes one lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again after salvation for that sign of tongues, then they can believe the other lies. I recall someone mocking a second blessing believer who did not believe slain in the spirit & holy laughter was not of Him, and he tried to stop it, but the mocking believer testified that he lost self control and fell also. So an evil tree cannot produce a good fruit and a good tree cannot produce an evil fruit; therefore for those of the second blessing to judge the chaos in other movements of the "spirit" as not of Him at all, then neither is the second blessing because that which they condemn came by the same tree of receiving the Holy Spirit again after a sign apart from salvation.

Yopu need to stop being a fruit inspector of the saints! Everyone will fall! Everyone of us is not perfect in doctrine! If one is trusting in Christ as their Savior- they are saved and will be caught up! Period! It is not of works or enough correct knowledge, it is of the blood Jesus shed for their sins and applied!
 
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Berserk

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Do people in your church testify to "demonstrations of the Spirit and of power (1 Cor. 2:6)?" Do they testify to healing miracles and supernatural guidance? "Is yours a cessationist church "holding the outward form of godliness but denying its power?" Avoid them (2 Timothy 3:5)."
 
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Christ4Me

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Do people in your church testify to "demonstrations of the Spirit and of power (1 Cor. 2:6)?" Do they testify to healing miracles and supernatural guidance? "Is yours a cessationist church "holding the outward form of godliness but denying its power?" Avoid them (2 Timothy 3:5)."

@Ronald Nolette @marks @Curtis @Bob Carabbio

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

 

atpollard

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Funny how ‘evil Pentecostals’ report miraculous healings and ‘good anti-Pentecostals’ just explain how “God doesn’t do that any more.”

I worry about ‘tongues’ as well, but there are things that bother me a lot more.
 

amigo de christo

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@Ronald Nolette @marks @Curtis @Bob Carabbio

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Beware the Kundalini , for it has swelled , swelled even within christendom itself .
Let us learn Christ well , be planted in those bibles and test all men , all spirits , against sound biblical doctrine .
This is a war for the souls of men , Follow Christ and march right into those trenches . For it is war , the final hour
battle is upon us . Let every one be wide awake and have on all the armour of GOD .
 

Christ4Me

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Funny how ‘evil Pentecostals’ report miraculous healings and ‘good anti-Pentecostals’ just explain how “God doesn’t do that any more.”

I worry about ‘tongues’ as well, but there are things that bother me a lot more.

Thank you for sharing.

There are reports of healing too in Khundalini in the same manner as found in Christianity like when believers lose self control & fall backwards.

Then the Lord reminds me of the miracles that these professing believers had done in His name and yet He denied them for being workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus continued to explain the effects of this iniquity they were in by how they would fall. Makes me see the connection here.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 
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amigo de christo

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Funny how ‘evil Pentecostals’ report miraculous healings and ‘good anti-Pentecostals’ just explain how “God doesn’t do that any more.”

I worry about ‘tongues’ as well, but there are things that bother me a lot more.
The gifts have never ceased . That being said beware many movements that are going on withing christendom .
for many have a sensual spirit , many too are playing with the kundalini .
Ye shall know them by their fruits . Those under the kundalini are often or do often overlook real sin
and focus mainly on unity unity unity and not on biblical sound doctrine and the pattern JESUS first set for the apostles to keep and teach .
WE IS IN A MASSIVE war and the falling away is spiraling out of control now .
Looks like not only have the faiths within christendom found some common ground , but so too have even the other false religions
and the secular world itself . Its all about we are one now , its all about this unity , but my question is
UNDER what . NOT GOD . IF this unity and love were centered UNDER GOD , IT would not have abandoned the truth
for sake of said unity . OOOPS . Its under the dragon and many cannot discern this any more , worse they follow it and know not .
 
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LILAC

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Spencer Smith does a great job explaining so much!

We left the church when the Lord told us to. It wasn't until after we left that we could really see what was going on "behind the scenes" that God has since revealed to us. Just the other day I checked up on that church and they are quoting Harry Potter and other worldly people who have no business with the true gospel! I thank God He called us out and that we listened!
 
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amigo de christo

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Spencer Smith does a great job explaining so much!

We left the church when the Lord told us to. It wasn't until after we left that we could really see what was going on "behind the scenes" that God has since revealed to us. Just the other day I checked up on that church and they are quoting Harry Potter and other worldly people who have no business with the true gospel! I thank God He called us out and that we listened!
Me too my friend . Me too . Much has been exposed and worse it will get and fast too .
We must cling to Christ , stay planted in our bibles . Doing good unto all , praying for one another and testing all things .
We are in the upmost of the falling away and its getting worse and will get worse only faster now .
When correction is ceased , leaven grows wild and fast . When truth is replaced with carnal wisdom , it grows only faster and faster .
And look where its headed . Not only does it get worse but they are really beginning to hate and judge
anyone who tries to speak truth and correct . On this path it wont be long before an all out final plan kicks off .
Though the plan has long been at work to ready the minds of the peoples of all nations and all religoins
to come against those who wont conform but rather expose the lie . Its gonna get worse .
But , BUT , the lambs HAVE JESUS so we have all HOPE no matter what comes against us . Be faithful even unto death
and remember we have us a wonderful home awaiting us at the end of our faith . HOME with our KING forever and ever and ever and ever .
So be encouraged .
 

Christ4Me

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Spencer Smith does a great job explaining so much!

Give credit to the Lord for that.;)

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

We left the church when the Lord told us to. It wasn't until after we left that we could really see what was going on "behind the scenes" that God has since revealed to us. Just the other day I checked up on that church and they are quoting Harry Potter and other worldly people who have no business with the true gospel! I thank God He called us out and that we listened!

I thank the Lord too for helping us both see the truth in His words in discerning spirits & phenomenon as not of Him at all.
 
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Illuminator

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Makes you wonder how any one can correct a Pope when they go bad.

10 Most Evil Popes in History
That site is loaded with factual errors, as indicated by the comments.

A Protestant (words in blue below) asked me:

In your section on ‘Rome’ you note that it suffered, ‘periodic moral decadence, a few weak or immoral popes..’ Yet you are not bothered that the holder of an ‘infallible’ office ( yes I know it’s only at ‘times’), can be ‘immoral’? I don’t just mean falls into sin like everyone does sometimes, but actually ‘immoral’ as a characteristic, a lifestyle?

Of course Catholics are bothered by it (all sin should disturb us), but we are not surprised. What happened, though, was that the very few popes who were scoundrels never issued any theological decrees to speak of, so they didn’t subvert God’s plan, any more than Bill Clinton has ruined the American Presidency as an institution forever, because of his disgraceful sexual behavior and compulsive lying. The office exists separately from the man, in the final analysis. Remember, too: infallibility is not impeccability. Moses, David, Paul, Matthew, and Peter wrote infallible Scripture, and they were all very great sinners at one time or another.

God has spoken through immoral people in the past to be sure. But as a routine office when they were immoral by lifestyle, not just isolated incidences?

Yes. David had an ongoing adulterous affair, for which he was punished after he was forgiven (there’s a proof of Catholic penance and temporal punishment for you). Yet God didn’t withdraw the eternal covenant he had made with David, and Jesus was descended from him.

The moral defects of the “Reformers” are there for all to see who care to see. Yet Protestants think nothing of deriving their distinctives from these sinful men. These guys are the very Founders of Protestantism. They exercised far more prerogatives and power over their flocks than any pope ever dreamt of. Luther claimed to be God’s mouthpiece; so did Calvin, in effect. By what authority did they dare say that? None except their own self-appointed “authority.” So I would say that this criticism merely redounds back much more forcefully onto your system.

Infallibility is not a protection from sin. Obviously, we hope that popes will be holy, and they are chosen on that criteria, and the great majority have been (compare the popes to, e.g., the patriarchs of Constantinople, if you want to see a great contrast). But again, this criticism is much more telling against Protestantism, once one understands how that movement began.
And after Christ?

Yes, Peter!!!! But Jesus nonchalantly accepts this failing (Lk 22:31-34) and sees it as no contradiction against his exalted office, which our Lord Himself appointed him to.

The apostle Paul continually holds himself up as an example to be followed, and expects other leaders in the Church to be able to do likewise, (Timothy for example). Yet you are suggesting the highest Church leader is immune to this requirement, so long as his theology when he makes ‘infallible’ statements is correct????

Of course he is not immune to moral standards at all, but in terms of whether or not a sinning pope detracts from infallibility itself, the Catholic outlook is not a concept foreign to the Bible or to the Apostles. St. Paul accepted the authority of (and even showed deference to) the high priest of Israel, who wasn’t even a Christian! (Acts 23:1-5). Jesus instructed the Jewish people to continue to follow the Pharisees’ teaching, despite their hypocrisy:

Matthew 23:2-3

Infallibility is not a protection from sin. Obviously, we hope that popes will be holy, and they are chosen on that criteria, and the great majority have been. But again, this criticism is much more telling against Protestantism, once one understands how that movement began.

Bad Popes: Replies to a Sincere Inquirer

further reading:

The Protestant Inquisition, Intolerance and Persecution