Lol on your “Christian only” take

[Lifelong_sinner]

What about me doubting miracles? I would think everyone here feels doubts about what I say. But they tell me doubt is bad in relation to what they say to me. You don't see a problem with that mentality?

The apostolic gifts are gone. Can miracles still happen? Sure, if God wants them to.
Doubting you and doubting God are completely different things. Doubting God is bad, doubting you in relation to christianity seems to be necessary due to you being an atheist.

 

[I.O.U]

The apostolic gifts are gone. Can miracles still happen? Sure, if God wants them to.
Doubting you and doubting God are completely different things. Doubting God is bad, doubting you in relation to christianity seems to be necessary due to you being an atheist.

Sorry, but I think you all know that my doubt is aimed squarely on you and everyone who'd speak on behalf of a God.

 

[Rita]

What about me doubting miracles? I would think everyone here feels doubts about what I say. But they tell me doubt is bad in relation to what they say to me. You don't see a problem with that mentality?

We all have doubts about many things in life and I do not see doubts as being exclusive to non believers. Doubts ultimately lead to asking questions and they encourage conversation. I cannot convince you of what I have faith in and what I don’t doubt. My link was merely to show you that there are so many incredible answers to prayers , miracles. I don’t doubt that God is active in this world.
I don’t have a problem with your doubts , as I said earlier , I lived with an atheist son. He doubted most of what I believed. What I sometimes question is why a non believer comes to a Christian forum, is it to argue, or to seek out genuine questions they have. Is it to find fault for the sake of it or to challenge their thinking ……..my son and I lived together so we had no choice but to get together and talk but he wouldn’t have set foot in a church or a Christian forum.
The one thing that he didn’t doubt was that Jesus existed, that he walked this earth and that he set a good example for how to live. He respected his way of life and attitudes . That became our common ground.
As I said earlier , he is no longer an atheist and where his doubts once were, he now has belief and faith through God working in his life , it doesn’t mean he never has doubts , but now the doubts are about other things ………..his questions have changed !

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Sorry, but I think you all know that my doubt is aimed squarely on you and everyone who'd speak on behalf of a God.

so unless God tells you Himself, you dont believe?? Best part is, God does speak to us, through the Bible.

 

[I.O.U]

so unless God tells you Himself, you dont believe?? Best part is, God does speak to us, through the Bible.

I wouldn't have to believe if a God made itself known to me. However I always have to believe what other people say in regards to their God's.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I wouldn't have to believe if a God made itself known to me. However I always have to believe what other people say in regards to their God's.

God makes Himself known to you everyday, you just refuse to accept what He says.

 

[I.O.U]

God makes Himself known to you everyday, you just refuse to accept what He says.

Yeah he speaks to me through the tree's, like from Lord of the Ring's.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Yeah he speaks to me through the tree's, like from Lord of the Ring's.

who made the tree’s?? You think trees just sprouted up on their own, without a Creator??

 

[Rita]

God makes Himself known to you everyday, you just refuse to accept what He says.

I know this sounds strange coming from a Christian, but I don’t think it is as simple as that…..before I came to faith at the age of 23 I looked at nature and saw nature , I never really related it all to God. Now I did have a belief in God, but not an understanding and my belief was not based on encounter or experience it was just something I was brought up to believe. I celebrated Christmas and Easter but didn’t have a clue about Jesus, what it took between then and when I came to faith was a mixture of events, the work of the Holy Spirit, hearing scripture at the right time and suddenly having an inner need for answers. Its not as simply as some one saying ‘ it’s obvious ‘ so you should be able to believe it, and then relay to someone they are refusing deliberately………..
Rita

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I know this sounds strange coming from a Christian, but I don’t think it is as simple as that…..before I came to faith at the age of 23 I looked at nature and saw nature , I never really related it all to God. Now I did have a belief in God, but not an understanding and my belief was not based on encounter or experience it was just something I was brought up to believe. I celebrated Christmas and Easter but didn’t have a clue about Jesus, what it took between then and when I came to faith was a mixture of events, the work of the Holy Spirit, hearing scripture at the right time and suddenly having an inner need for answers. Its not as simply as some one saying ‘ it’s obvious ‘ so you should be able to believe it, and then relay to someone they are refusing deliberately………..
Rita

when you look at a house, do you think someone built that house, or do you think oh that house built itself? There was of course a builder. Take that example and expand it to the grass, sky, sun, the birds, us. Someone created it.

Romans 1:18-20 says “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.”

the problem now is IOU will disregard scripture, when it clearly states that even atheists can know that God exists simply by looking outside, yet he will say the Bible cant be trusted.

 

[Rita]

when you look at a house, do you think someone built that house, or do you think oh that house built itself? There was of course a builder. Take that example and expand it to the grass, sky, sun, the birds, us. Someone created it.

Romans 1:18-20 says “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.”

the problem now is IOU will disregard scripture, when it clearly states that even atheists can know that God exists simply by looking outside, yet he will say the Bible cant be trusted.

I don’t think you can compare the building of a house with nature, there are other views in this world with regards to the evolution and creation of the nature world. My son would throw that at me all the time, he had answers for me when I conveyed what you have relayed. Thats my point about looking at nature and seeing nature, it didn’t automatically make me think ‘ it was God ‘ …..I didn’t fully grasp how finite and incredible the natural world was until I came to faith and saw it afresh through different eyes. I now look at creation in a different way. So does my son now.
I was speaking from experience….

 

[Rita]

@Lifelong_sinner , I guess what I am relaying is that it is not always wilful denying. In some cases it can be but not always. Only God knows a persons perception and why they do not see things that others clearly see…………
I have never really forgotten how I felt before I knew things, for some it’s different. It helped when I would discuss things with my son. As we discussed things seeds were being planted. I never preached to him, I listened and responded in honesty and that included scripture at times.
Those conversations were never lost, they were used. I will leave you to continue your discussion with him.
We all have different approaches with how we witness x

 

[I.O.U]

who made the tree’s?? You think trees just sprouted up on their own, without a Creator??

No. They need the soil, sun and water to do that.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

No. They need the soil, sun and water to do that.

so who created the soil, sun and water??

 

[I.O.U]

I know this sounds strange coming from a Christian, but I don’t think it is as simple as that…..before I came to faith at the age of 23 I looked at nature and saw nature , I never really related it all to God. Now I did have a belief in God, but not an understanding and my belief was not based on encounter or experience it was just something I was brought up to believe. I celebrated Christmas and Easter but didn’t have a clue about Jesus, what it took between then and when I came to faith was a mixture of events, the work of the Holy Spirit, hearing scripture at the right time and suddenly having an inner need for answers. Its not as simply as some one saying ‘ it’s obvious ‘ so you should be able to believe it, and then relay to someone they are refusing deliberately………..
Rita

when you look at a house, do you think someone built that house, or do you think oh that house built itself? There was of course a builder. Take that example and expand it to the grass, sky, sun, the birds, us. Someone created it.

Romans 1:18-20 says “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.”

the problem now is IOU will disregard scripture, when it clearly states that even atheists can know that God exists simply by looking outside, yet he will say the Bible cant be trusted.

I don’t think you can compare the building of a house with nature, there are other views in this world with regards to the evolution and creation of the nature world. My son would throw that at me all the time, he had answers for me when I conveyed what you have relayed. Thats my point about looking at nature and seeing nature, it didn’t automatically make me think ‘ it was God ‘ …..I didn’t fully grasp how finite and incredible the natural world was until I came to faith and saw it afresh through different eyes. I now look at creation in a different way. So does my son now.
I was speaking from experience….

@Lifelong_sinner , I guess what I am relaying is that it is not always wilful denying. In some cases it can be but not always. Only God knows a persons perception and why they do not see things that others clearly see…………
I have never really forgotten how I felt before I knew things, for some it’s different. It helped when I would discuss things with my son. As we discussed things seeds were being planted. I never preached to him, I listened and responded in honesty and that included scripture at times.
Those conversations were never lost, they were used. I will leave you to continue your discussion with him.
We all have different approaches with how we witness x

While you two debate about whether I can see God or not in all that he made. Or if I am really guilty of willfully denying God or not on that basis. I'd like to point out that because you believe in Yahweh (Jesus) as a creator, then it would naturally follow that he would have created the heaven's and the earth (Star's and Moon)

Although why is it that the earth and universe Yahweh created knows only about as much as the inhabitants themselves know. There's no mention of all the other planets in motion in our own solar system except what was known by the natives of that ERA, no mention of other animals except what is known by the natives of that ERA.

 

[I.O.U]

so who created the soil, sun and water??

The man that lives in the sky.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

While you two debate about whether I can see God or not in all that he made. Or if I am really guilty of willfully denying God or not on that basis. I'd like to point out that because you believe in Yahweh (Jesus) as a creator, then it would naturally follow that he would have created the heaven's and the earth (Star's and Moon)

Although why is it that the earth and universe Yahweh created knows only about as much as the inhabitants themselves know. There's no mention of all the other planets in motion in our own solar system except what was known by the natives of that ERA, no mention of other animals except what is known by the natives of that ERA.

so you’re grabbing at any idea to disprove God…got it.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

The man that lives in the sky.

for some reason, my sarcasm meter is pegged right now.

 

[I.O.U]

so you’re grabbing at any idea to disprove God…got it.

Yes, true.

 

[I.O.U]

for some reason, my sarcasm meter is pegged right now.