One Spirit

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Episkopos

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Of course there is a Trinity, and this was confirmed at the baptism of Christ -- the second person in the Godhead. So Jesus further confirm the Trinity in Matthew 28:19, and John confirmed it in 1 John 5:7 (KJB).

Both of those are additions made by the Roman church. They stick out because they go against the rest of scriptures.

The Johanine comma {1 John 5:7}was added in in the middle ages....fairly recently. The RC church believes that its tradition has the same weight as the original scriptures....a position you seem to agree with.

Matt. 28:19 is refuted by early commentaries that have it read " baptizing them in My name" ...which goes along with all the references in Acts and elsewhere.

Nobody likes to think they have been duped. Pride kicks in to try defending the indefensible. The Trinity doctrine is indefensible. It is a choice one makes..a preference. But having such a preference doesn't make it true.

Where is the trinity in the OT? Elohim means twofold God. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? If yes, then good. Do you believe in more than one Holy Spirit? God is Spirit. The Spirit of Christ is not a separate person from the Father. Both Father and Son share One Holy Spirit. No other doctrine is defensible throughout the Bible. You just haven't looked into it yet.
 
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Philip James

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Do you consider Paul as being apostolic? Notice what he says...

"For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God."

Do you consider the spirit of a man as a separate person? Or do you agree with Paul that a spirit in a man works the same way that God's Spirit does?

I am not really sure what you are asking here. Can you rephrase the question?

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
 

Episkopos

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“But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.” 1 Cor. 6:17

God is One Spirit. We become one with God through His Spirit.

We are members one of another...by partaking of one Spirit. A dogmatic acceptance of God and theories about Him do not provide oneness. We are to be joined to the Lord so that we are joined with one another. How? By partaking of the one Spirit that joins both Father and Son.
 
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Episkopos

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This is so true.

Who is it who has oneness with God?

Much love!

Only those who enter into Christ to be joined to Him. The divisions among us are due to the many false claims of people who read the Bible in a religious way void of any truth or reality.

if there was more honesty...there would be more agreement.
 

ScottA

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This is about language. Most languages use masculine and feminine determinates in their nouns. For instance in Hebrew...wisdom is a "she". In French a house and a table are feminine. As in..the house SHE is very pretty. Or...the table SHE is empty.

A good translation eliminates the gender in translating into English because for us masculine and feminine are exclusively used for people not things.

In Proverbs it says wisdom SHE cries out in the streets. Is that because wisdom is a woman? No, it is because the language uses gender in their nouns. The translation should avoid this and just day...Wisdom cries out in the street.

The same goes for Greek. The Greek "autos" means either he or it. They are interchangeable. The same goes for French. In French IL FAIT CHAUD......literally means "he makes hot." But a proper translation makes it....IT is hot (outside).

The Comforter is not a person per se. If someone wants to think it is...then fine. The Comforter is an open door from heaven to be influenced by God's Spirit. If someone wants to think the same person is in every person....well, that's how the Spirit of God works! :)
My other approach did not work to get you thinking as I had hoped...so let's try this:

Your explanation here in the above post of why Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as "Him" and "He", was that the word actually means "It."

The problem and error of that--is that God is not an "It." Which, then, by your own logic would mean that in terms of language, it would be proper to call God "It" rather than "He." Which just doesn't hold water.
So, back to my original question--since God is not an "It": "Why then does Jesus refer to Him as "Him" and "He" and as having His own title: "Comforter", "Helper", saying "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you?"
 

Episkopos

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My other approach did not work to get you thinking as I had hoped...so let's try this:

Your explanation here in the above post of why Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as "Him" and "He", was that the word actually means "It."

The problem and error of that--is that God is not an "It." Which, then, by your own logic would mean that in terms of language, it would be proper to call God "It" rather than "He." Which just doesn't hold water.
So, back to my original question--since God is not an "It": "Why then does Jesus refer to Him as "Him" and "He" and as having His own title: "Comforter", "Helper", saying "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you?"


Jesus cast out demons by the "finger" of God. Is God's finger a "he" or an "it". You are confusing function with person-hood.

The Spirit of God is a part of God...not a separate person. Is your hand a he or an it. Is your mind a he or an it.

You need to think this out more.
 
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marks

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Jesus cast out demons by the "finger" of God. Is God's finger a "he" or an "it". You are confusing function with person-hood.

The Spirit of God is a part of God...not a separate person. Is your hand a he or an it. Is your mind a he or an it.

You need to think this out more.

I think you need to give this some more consideration. In the face of your denials of Personhood of the Holy Spirit, are these descriptions of the Holy Spirit - forget about gender designations, you yourself have said that these are oftentimes a function of the language itself - acting in a personable way.

Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God.

Ananias, why have you lied to the Holy Spirit?

Acts 10:19-20 KJV
19) While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20) Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

John 16:13 KJV
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

And of course passages such as Jesus' baptism, God the Father speaks from heaven as God the Son is baptized as God the Holy Spirit descends in the form of a dove, each are distinct from each other, and is One God.

Much love!
 
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ScottA

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Jesus cast out demons by the "finger" of God. Is God's finger a "he" or an "it". You are confusing function with person-hood.

The Spirit of God is a part of God...not a separate person. Is your hand a he or an it. Is your mind a he or an it.

You need to think this out more.
There are good things to consider here.

But we run the risk of error by semantics. In other words, if we say that God is One, how then is it correct that we refer to "part" as "part", or even as separate "persons?" (rhetorical)

What I am getting at...is that I do not consider it correct to do either. But rather that it is better said another way. Thus, I do not advocate for "persons" or for "parts" as many do, but rather by the example that God has established by created us in His own image. Meaning, that, just as [o]ne might accurately be referred to according to his role or roles rather than by his whole identity, he is still one person. In which case "part" is appropriate--but not because the one person comes in parts, but rather is known in parts. Likewise, it is also accurate to refer to each part by title or suffix, even Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. None of which makes for different "persons."

And granted, God being spirit, makes Holy Spirit redundant. But then again...so does "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father."

In conclusion...there is nothing wrong with referring to God by suffix, of which there are considerably more than three. In which case it is also possible to error by placing a limit on the number--because it's God. Two? Just falls short. Persons? Nah, that defies God being One.

Anyway, good discussion.
 
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Episkopos

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I think you need to give this some more consideration. In the face of your denials of Personhood of the Holy Spirit, are these descriptions of the Holy Spirit - forget about gender designations, you yourself have said that these are oftentimes a function of the language itself - acting in a personable way.

Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God.

Ananias, why have you lied to the Holy Spirit?

Acts 10:19-20 KJV
19) While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20) Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

John 16:13 KJV
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

And of course passages such as Jesus' baptism, God the Father speaks from heaven as God the Son is baptized as God the Holy Spirit descends in the form of a dove, each are distinct from each other, and is One God.

Much love!


When Jesus is not there personally...we still have God's Spirit interacting with His Church. When there is a VISION of Jesus...then Jesus identifies Himself as being Jesus....as in...I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.

It's normal then that a voice from God will be His Spirit speaking. God is Spirit. His presence is by His Spirit. Blaspheming God to His face is blaspheming Him in the presence of His Spirit. All other forms of blasphemy are in the absence of God's actual presence. We are told to NOT listen in on what our servants say about us or else we will hear undesirable things. God does likewise.

The Spirit of God gives us access to eternal wisdom. By having that access we need that no one teach us...since we are experiencing eternal reality through that access.

The Spirit of truth....is a Spirit of wisdom...eternal wisdom. Is the Spirit of truth different than the Holy Spirit? Or is it one of the 7-fold functions of the Spirit of God?


Is. 11:1-3

1) Spirit of the Lord.

2) Manifestation of wisdom.

3) Spirit of understanding.

4) Spirit of exhortation.

5) Spirit of strength.

6) Manifestation of knowledge.

7) Spirit of fear of God.
 
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Wrangler

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The again brother- @marks we have 1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. The bible doesn't say there were two who bore witness but three...;)

Honestly, I'm amazed this error keeps getting repeated. The biggest error of the KJV, imposing their trinitarian doctrine onto Scripture, 1 John 5:7-8. So there are three testifying witnesses: 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood. All three are in total agreement. VOICE
 

Wrangler

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They are distinctively different and separate from each other. I believe in the Godhead brother @Episkopos but I do not believe that there are 2. I believe that there are 3....
Then why does the hierachy only mention 2 in 1 COR 11:3 and why does Jesus say the only true God is his Father in John 17:3, along with every Epistles prologue? (None mention acting on behalf of the HS)
 

marks

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Is. 11:1-3

1) Spirit of the Lord.

2) Manifestation of wisdom.

3) Spirit of understanding.

4) Spirit of exhortation.

5) Spirit of strength.

6) Manifestation of knowledge.

7) Spirit of fear of God.

For a true list of attributes, as One's identification (your #1) is not an attribute, however, in ch. 4 you find the spirit of judgment and of burning. You only need remember that Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Much love!
 

marks

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When Jesus is not there personally...
When is Jesus not personally with the redeemed? Being born again you are of the mind you can be separated from Jesus? How would that happen, and what would be the implication to your "rebirth"?

Much love!
 
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Angelina

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Another example of three distinct persons - The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit, they being one Godhead - found in Acts 7

54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.