JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
People want Justice, and while on this Earth we must follow the law or suffer it's consequences.
The death penalty...
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Yes. Justice and the law seem to have a slight relationship, so slight that many think it is purely coincidental. We don't have the capacity to alter Justice, but maybe we can tinker with the law.
Best wishes, 2RM
Best wishes, 2RM
A question for those that advocate in favour of the death penalty, Could you flick the switch, could you pull the trigger, could you stick the needle in, do you consider yourselves so without Sin that you could have cast the first stone?. We are called on to LOVE others, and that includes our enemies, those that hate, persecute and spitefully use us, and to treat others as we would want to be treated, and no matter what we'd done, i think when push came to shove there are very few of us that would willingly offer our bodies up to the executioner for the sins we've committed. And lets not confuse Legality with morality, for example, some will cry out for justice and the death penalty for the rapist or murderer, but what of those that support and implement a policy of selling weapons to Saudi Arabia which has over the past 6 years pounded Yemen, the poorest country in the middle east, which has led to the deaths of over 350,000 men women and children and the worst humanitarian crisis in the world today with millions facing starvation and death from disease, what justice should they face, whos crying out for the death penalty for the arms manufacturers , the politicians and their supporters who are complicit in this mass murder?. "Let him without sin cast the first stone", seems to me that rules ALL of us out.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board. Thanks for your
well-thought-out input and Scripture.
You do realize there is a Big Difference between the individual
believer, accountable for "thou shalt not murder," and the
God-Ordained government, He Says Is To Be:
"a terror to them that are evil," Correct? See post #704...
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
GRACE And Peace...
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Thanks for your welcome GRACE and kind words. I see no difference between the actions of an individual and the actions of a Government, who must both be held accountable and judged according to Christs teachings. Governments are after all just a collection of individuals ,each held personally responsible for their actions as part of that collective. As must of course, those, who in a democracy, vote for a particular Political Party. To me there is no difference between pulling the trigger myself to execute someone and voting for a party that supports capital punishment and as a government carries it out. Which is why i made the point about the Horrific situation in Yemen where Mass Starvation, Carnage and Destruction have been inflicted on the civilian population by the Saudi coalition, armed and supported politically by the US, UK and many western governments. If we dont speak out and campaign against these atrocities, if we vote for politicians who support these horrors then we are complicit in them and will be judged accordingly. It is no surprise that the Devil offered Jesus "All the Kingdoms of this World for they are mine to give", for Governments are essentially driven by self interest, greed and a lust for power, and as the old saying goes, "If youre going to sup with the Devil, use a very long spoon".
Only God has the right to end a persons life. Who are we, to rob ANYONE of the opportunity to eventually come to repentance and be saved from eternal death?
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board. Or course, that is why the
"governmental ministers" Of God, Obeying Him, Always have a chaplain visit
the death row inmate Before he is executed, According To The Scriptures. (#704)
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
GRACE And Peace... The apostle of GRACE (2 Min With The BIBLE)
The answer is JUSTICE!
the state has a right and a duty to execute justice!
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Separation of church and state is problematic cos the state requires the influence of the holy church to be just and virtuous to promote peace and good will!
So, theefaith, you haven't quite got the hang of this Christianity thing yet, have you? No worries, it took me some time, too. But the truth is, the Christian God is a redeeming God, not a vengeful one.
Best wishes, 2RM.
Best wishes, 2RM.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
huh?
Rom_12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for It Is Written, Vengeance is Mine; I WILL Repay, Saith The LORD."
GRACE And Peace...
As I have said elsewhere, these days I confine my reading largely to the Gospels, on the grounds that if Jesus didn't say it, it is either opinion or erroneous or both.
Best wishes, 2RM.
Best wishes, 2RM.
So, that's an interesting question. There is us, our nation states, and God. The idea is that God is omniscient, and omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, and will, at the end of days, resolve all our disputes satisfactorily. But we are impatient, and do not want to wait that long. So we invest our nations with powers to make interim judgements on our behalf. The problem is that our nation states are not omniscient, or omnipotent, or omnibenevolent, and may well get stuff wrong, just as we do. So we need to tread a little carefully around this word 'justice', and try not to let our nations pass sentences, like the death penalty, that are irreversible.
Best wishes, 2RM.
Best wishes, 2RM.
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
The Death penalty is not murder, it is Justice carried out on a deserving criminal tried by a jury based on facts he or she committed a heinous crime.
no the state’s authority to execute justice comes from God!
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1 pet 2: 13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
Are we just talking Christian nation states here, or would you say that of Taliban ruled Afghanistan? Or Putin's Russia? or Xi Jinping's China?
Best wishes, 2RM.
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Or the wicked United States?
We executed two Jewish communists in the 50’s remember!
I would say a Godly Just state, a kingdom would be my preference
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