What and when is the rapture part two?

[Marty fox]

Remember when this thread was about the rapture?

 

[ewq1938]

We don't have a soul , we are a soul .

Scripture says we have a soul:


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Did Christ have a body before being born of woman ?

I don't know. The bible is silent on that.

 

[n2thelight]

Scripture says we have a soul:


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.



I don't know. The bible is silent on that.

We can be without the flesh is my point

Scripture says we were made in His image correct ?

 

[ewq1938]

We can be without the flesh is my point

Scripture says we were made in His image correct ?

Image and likeness. You should look up the Hebrew definitions for those words.

 

[Taken]

What happens on earth while you all are in Heaven ?
What specifically is the wrath of God ?

First of all, THERE ARE “HEAVEN(S)”, which notifies us an implication of LAYERS regarding Heaven.
* A lower Layer, of clouds, we can SEE, and even enter, VIA airplanes, and sometimes, going to the Peaks of Mountains.
* A middle Layer, without Clouds, we Can SEE, particularly on a DARK evening, by seeing the Twinkling of Stars, Representative of created holy Angels Estate, beyond where WE can Go.
* A high Layer, Exclusive to Gods Estate, whereby NO Light escapes.

Not a big secret...Noah’s natural body was SAVED FROM Gods Destruction UPON the FACE of the Earth...BECAUSE Noah’s body, was RAISED UP, above the FACE of the Earth, ABOVE the Mountain TOPS.

Not a big secret...DEAD Body’s SHALL BE RAISED UP, “in Glory” or “in Damnation”.

Not a big secret...A man’s Body, CRUCIFIED WITH Jesus’ Body, IS a man’s DEAD BODY.
At ANY TIME, that man’s DEAD BODY is RAISED UP, by the Power of God, That mans DEAD BODY It IS RAISED UP, IN GLORY.
A GLORIFIED BODY, IS NOT Visibly SEEN, BY “Corrupt Living Human EYES”.

WRATH is the EFFECT of Anger.
EFFECTS are what IS directed AT the thing that is CAUSING ANGER.
EFFECTS...such as: Words, throwing things, Hitting, Striking, Unleashing, etc.
ANGER is extreme DISPLEASURE of an OTHER behavior.
WRATH is WHAT ONE CAUSES TO EFFECT a DISPLEASING OTHER.

MEN can and do become ANGRY at an other mans displeasing behavior.
MEN can and do CAUSE WRATH against other men.

God Himself Can and Does become Angry at men’s displeasing behavior.
God Himself Can and Does CAUSE WRATH against men.

God HAS become SO Displeased, SO Angry at men, HE Caused ALL men to DIE, Drown, EXCEPT....8 manKIND of things.

God HAS WARNED AGAIN, and FOR the Second and Last Time...He would AGAIN Become SO Displeased, SO Angry at men, HE WILL Cause ALL Earthly MEN to DIE....

BY, THROUGH, OF....Gods GRACE...God Himself has “ESTABLISHED” “A WAY”...for ALL of manKIND:
1) TO Become DEAD, eternally.
2) TO Become DEAD, and MADE eternally ALIVE, born again OF Gods SEED.

THE CHOICE IS expressly, afforded TO Every single natural born mans OWN FREEWILL to CHOOSE for himself...WHAT his choice WILL Be.

“I am a naturally born manKIND of thing, GIVEN Gods Grace Offering, TO CHOOSE as I freely choose.
I Learned of Gods Grace. I Learned of Gods Offering. I Chose Gods Offering to GIVE my Body unto DEATH, FOR God, and that HE MAKE me eternally ALIVE, born of His SEED.
I am NOT, on Gods LIST of men He is ANGRY at.
I am NOT, on Gods LIST of men He is going to SUBJECT ME to “His” WRATH.
I am NOT, appointed to BE ON Earth, While God SENDS DOWN His WRATH FROM Heaven UPON the Whole Earth.
I HAVE NO Requested SERVICE to perform FOR GOD, ON EARTH, DURING, Gods Second and Last WRATH, UPON the Whole Earth.
I am SET APART, from ALL OTHERS, who ARE “WITHOUT Gods SEED”.

Yes, NOTHING new under the Sun. What was SHALL BE.
Yes, As “saved” Noah was Lifted UP off the Face of the Earth TO the Clouds, WHILE God Destroyed the whole Earth with Water....
So, ALSO, shall “saved” I be Lifted UP off the Face of the Earth TO the Clouds, WHILE God Destroys the whole Earth with Fire...

NOT my responsibility to hear, read, study, learn Gods Revealed Knowledge FOR YOU.
NOT my responsibility to Understand Gods Revealed Knowledge FOR YOU.

I am Confidant, Secure, Trusting in MY Relationship WITH God.
My Relationship WITH God, has nothing whatsoever to do WITH you, any more or less than My Relationship with My spouse, My children, My My family, My friends, My neighbors have anything whatsoever to do WITH you.

 

[Taken]

We don't have a soul , we are a soul .
Did Christ have a body before being born of woman ?

Yes we DO HAVE a “soul”.
We ARE called a “soul” as possessive.
What ever YOUR Body’s NAME IS, Your name applies to YOUR BODY, THE soul that (IS made by God, Given you by God, Belongs to God), IS associated exclusively with YOUR BODY.

Body’s come forth OUT OF THE EARTH.
Souls, come INTO a Body, VIA Gods BREATH, blowing a SOUL into a mans body.
Living SOULS, depart (LEAVE) DEAD BODY’s, and go to where Gods SENDS that soul.
DEAD Body’s, return to the dust of the earth.

Isa 43:
[7] Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Isa 57:
[16] For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.

Ezek 18:
[4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

A body is a form out from dust of the earth.
A soul is not a body.
A spirit is not a body.
A soul is a Gift Life from Gods Breath, that ACTIVATES the Life of the Body.
The Body’s Life IS Blood.

A spirit is not a soul.
A body is not a spirit.

Gods OFFERING OF CONVERSION...EFFECTS...the WHOLE of ONE Named Man-KIND of thing....
Joe blows...body,
The soul IN Joe blows....body,
The spirit. IN Joes blows...body.

1 Thes 5:
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

YA THINK...whole spirit AND soul AND body....is an error?
Ya THINK...your whole spirit, soul, body....are the SAME things?

I don’t.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There was no Abraham's bosom when the thief died. It was empty. You have no concept of time do you? Abraham's bosom emptied when Jesus said, "It is finished". Matthew 27:50-52

"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,"

Two things immediately happened: the temple veil rent in half immediately rendering the Holy of Holies null and void. Abraham's bosom was emptied rendering the grave of the OT null and void. The thief on the Cross could not enter Abraham's bosom any more than God would enter the Holy of Holies. You condemn the thief to a death that no longer existed. How magnanimous of you. Plus you make God out to be a liar, when God clearly told the thief he would be with God in Paradise that day, not some future resurrection thousands of years from then.

As pointed out, the thief did not hop off the cross and join those bodies walking around Jerusalem for 3 days with all those other bodies. The thief did not join those from Abraham's bosom. The thief died hours after Abraham's bosom had become defunct. The thief died hours after the temple veil rendered the temple defunct. It is a matter of the time of the thief's death, not your doctrinal position based on your metrics.


John 19:31-34

"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water."

The two thieves were not dead yet, so they broke their legs to hasten their deaths. It was hours later, and the Jews did not want bodies hanging out for days near Jerusalem. It was the Passover Sabbath on Thursday of this month of Passover observance. Jesus did not die at the same time as the thief, and could not take the thief to Abraham's bosom. The thief was not dead yet. Jesus was out of Abraham's bosom just as quick as those bodies walking out of their graves.

Why would you think this process happened over days? Do you think it will take days at the Second Coming to process all those bodies into the air by heavens security personal? Why do you think the event at the Cross would take 3 days to process all those bodies into Paradise in the third heaven in the heaven in the firmament?

Wrong. Jesus went to Abrahams bosom while his body was in the grave!

It was emptied when Jesus ascended as it says In ephesians.

This is a pointless debate. It is such a trivial matter, it needs to end.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Heaven and paradise is the same place. Jesus went to Hades, not to heaven/paradise.

Hades is the generic Hebrew term for the grave or underworld. It had 3 compartments.

Tartarus-- where the angels who fell in Gen. 6 are chained.
Place of torments m, where the lost souls go.
Paradise/Abrahams Bosom where the righteous souls went to wait for the blood to actually be shed on the cross. they left when Jesus ascended as it is written in Ephesians. so this part of hades/sheol/hell/grave is empty.

I am stating opinion here, but I believe the paradise that is found within heaven/New jerusalem, is the paradise god planted for Adam and Eve. Rev. tells us the tree of life is found iin paqradise which is within heaven.

 

[Timtofly]

Wrong. Jesus went to Abrahams bosom while his body was in the grave!

It was emptied when Jesus ascended as it says In ephesians.

This is a pointless debate. It is such a trivial matter, it needs to end.

The bodies left the grave at the Cross, when Jesus said it is finished. They were walking around Jerusalem for those 3 days. I am surprised that you are only looking at a body in a grave and not all those bodies walking around Jerusalem. While the body was in the tomb, the Spirit and soul were in Paradise. Jesus had to wait in Paradise, while the body was in the tomb until the whole 3 days were up.

Why would God hang out in sheol, when no souls were there, but were all walking around on earth for those same 3 days?

Do you think the Second Coming is going to take 3 days to process all those souls meeting in the air? If this process is instantaneous, why do you think it took 3 days back in 30AD? Abraham's bosom was emptied instantaneously. There was no where to go. Those bodies had to walk around on earth until the 3 days were over, and Jesus would bodily ascend with them into Paradise.

The bodies did not come out of Abraham's bosom 3 days after the Cross. They came out immediately. Jesus did not bodily get down from the Cross and ascend that day. Jesus' body had to wait in the grave, because Jesus told the Jews on several occasions that would happen. It was proof of a physical bodily resurrection. It was more necessary than just coming off the Cross, and directly ascending at that moment.

You reject Jesus is God, and that the thief was with God in Paradise a part of heaven called the third heaven. Instead of common sense taking into consideration all of reality. You claim the thief was in the tomb with the body of Jesus since obviously that 3 days in the tomb, is your weird version of a temporary "paradise".

If you keep insisting this, it is trivial. There is no Scriptural proof that both the thief and Jesus were in the tomb hanging out for 3 days. The thief was in Paradise with God. The body of Christ was in the tomb, but the spirit and soul of Jesus was waiting in heaven, until the body would be resurrected. Or wherever, but not in Abraham's bosom. That was already empty and the souls and bodies of Abraham's bosom were walking around awaiting the ascension on Sunday morning, after Jesus met Mary near the empty tomb.

 

[ewq1938]

Paradise is not in Hades. Jesus said there was a great gulf inbetween the TWO PLACES.


Jesus went to Hades not paradise. People in paradise are already saved and don't need any help etc.

Hades is the generic Hebrew term for the grave or underworld. It had 3 compartments.

Tartarus-- where the angels who fell in Gen. 6 are chained.
Place of torments m, where the lost souls go.
Paradise/Abrahams Bosom where the righteous souls went to wait for the blood to actually be shed on the cross. they left when Jesus ascended as it is written in Ephesians. so this part of hades/sheol/hell/grave is empty.

I am stating opinion here, but I believe the paradise that is found within heaven/New jerusalem, is the paradise god planted for Adam and Eve. Rev. tells us the tree of life is found iin paqradise which is within heaven.

 

[n2thelight]

First of all, THERE ARE “HEAVEN(S)”, which notifies us an implication of LAYERS regarding Heaven.
* A lower Layer, of clouds, we can SEE, and even enter, VIA airplanes, and sometimes, going to the Peaks of Mountains.
* A middle Layer, without Clouds, we Can SEE, particularly on a DARK evening, by seeing the Twinkling of Stars, Representative of created holy Angels Estate, beyond where WE can Go.
* A high Layer, Exclusive to Gods Estate, whereby NO Light escapes.

Not a big secret...Noah’s natural body was SAVED FROM Gods Destruction UPON the FACE of the Earth...BECAUSE Noah’s body, was RAISED UP, above the FACE of the Earth, ABOVE the Mountain TOPS.

Not a big secret...DEAD Body’s SHALL BE RAISED UP, “in Glory” or “in Damnation”.

Not a big secret...A man’s Body, CRUCIFIED WITH Jesus’ Body, IS a man’s DEAD BODY.
At ANY TIME, that man’s DEAD BODY is RAISED UP, by the Power of God, That mans DEAD BODY It IS RAISED UP, IN GLORY.
A GLORIFIED BODY, IS NOT Visibly SEEN, BY “Corrupt Living Human EYES”.

WRATH is the EFFECT of Anger.
EFFECTS are what IS directed AT the thing that is CAUSING ANGER.
EFFECTS...such as: Words, throwing things, Hitting, Striking, Unleashing, etc.
ANGER is extreme DISPLEASURE of an OTHER behavior.
WRATH is WHAT ONE CAUSES TO EFFECT a DISPLEASING OTHER.

MEN can and do become ANGRY at an other mans displeasing behavior.
MEN can and do CAUSE WRATH against other men.

God Himself Can and Does become Angry at men’s displeasing behavior.
God Himself Can and Does CAUSE WRATH against men.

God HAS become SO Displeased, SO Angry at men, HE Caused ALL men to DIE, Drown, EXCEPT....8 manKIND of things.

God HAS WARNED AGAIN, and FOR the Second and Last Time...He would AGAIN Become SO Displeased, SO Angry at men, HE WILL Cause ALL Earthly MEN to DIE....

BY, THROUGH, OF....Gods GRACE...God Himself has “ESTABLISHED” “A WAY”...for ALL of manKIND:
1) TO Become DEAD, eternally.
2) TO Become DEAD, and MADE eternally ALIVE, born again OF Gods SEED.

THE CHOICE IS expressly, afforded TO Every single natural born mans OWN FREEWILL to CHOOSE for himself...WHAT his choice WILL Be.

“I am a naturally born manKIND of thing, GIVEN Gods Grace Offering, TO CHOOSE as I freely choose.
I Learned of Gods Grace. I Learned of Gods Offering. I Chose Gods Offering to GIVE my Body unto DEATH, FOR God, and that HE MAKE me eternally ALIVE, born of His SEED.
I am NOT, on Gods LIST of men He is ANGRY at.
I am NOT, on Gods LIST of men He is going to SUBJECT ME to “His” WRATH.
I am NOT, appointed to BE ON Earth, While God SENDS DOWN His WRATH FROM Heaven UPON the Whole Earth.
I HAVE NO Requested SERVICE to perform FOR GOD, ON EARTH, DURING, Gods Second and Last WRATH, UPON the Whole Earth.
I am SET APART, from ALL OTHERS, who ARE “WITHOUT Gods SEED”.

Yes, NOTHING new under the Sun. What was SHALL BE.
Yes, As “saved” Noah was Lifted UP off the Face of the Earth TO the Clouds, WHILE God Destroyed the whole Earth with Water....
So, ALSO, shall “saved” I be Lifted UP off the Face of the Earth TO the Clouds, WHILE God Destroys the whole Earth with Fire...

NOT my responsibility to hear, read, study, learn Gods Revealed Knowledge FOR YOU.
NOT my responsibility to Understand Gods Revealed Knowledge FOR YOU.

I am Confidant, Secure, Trusting in MY Relationship WITH God.
My Relationship WITH God, has nothing whatsoever to do WITH you, any more or less than My Relationship with My spouse, My children, My My family, My friends, My neighbors have anything whatsoever to do WITH you.

All that ,yet you didn't answer my question

 

[Taken]

What happens on earth while you all are in Heaven ?

Wrath of the Lamb. Rev 6:16
Devils Wrath. Rev 12:12
Gods Wrath. Rev 16:1

What specifically is the wrath of God ?

7 last plagues. Rev 15:1

 

[Taken]

Paradise is not in Hades. Jesus said there was a great gulf inbetween the TWO PLACES.

Paradise is where the “Tree of Life is”. (Fruit of the Righteous.)
The “Tree of Life” moves, making a full circle.
1st ON Earth. (Garden)
2nd IN Earth. (Comfort side of Hell/ Saved souls/ gulf division)
3rd IN Heaven. (Gods Heavenly Kingdom)
4th ON Earth. (Whole Earth/ Gods Kingdom)

Jesus went to Hades not paradise.

Luke 23:
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[ewq1938]

2nd IN Earth. (Comfort side of Hell/ Saved souls/ gulf division)

There is no comfort side of hell. That is unscriptural.

 

[Taken]

What and when is the rapture part two?
OP ^

What is the rapture ~
The rapture is those (body, soul, spirit), Forgiven, Restored, Renewed, Made, “forever with the Lord God”;
By, Through, Of; converted “IN” Christ, rising up off the face of the Earth, to the lower heavens (clouds), to meet their Lord (Savior) in the air.

When is the rapture ~
Precise Time (hour) is Secret.
General Time (signs, clues)
* After ~ Nations promote “with Them” (Men) over God.
* Before ~ Wrath from Heaven upon the Nations.

Present signs ~
* Nations in Agreement, named; “The Great Re-set”.
- Men of Nations Head - promoting:
- Threats, Fear, Promise “with them” Peace, Safety, Saving Lives.

Present “slogans” ~
24-7 pseudo news propaganda
“Build Back Better”
“The Great Re-set”
Health Plandemic a successful TOOL!

Videos YouTube world wide shout outs.

 

[Taken]

There is no comfort side of hell. That is unscriptural.

Paradise is not in Hades. Jesus said there was a great gulf inbetween the TWO PLACES.

What TWO PLACES?
Where were the TWO PLACES?
What was the Condition of the Souls in the TWO PLACES?

 

[Taken]

Scripture says we have a soul:


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.



I don't know. The bible is silent on that.

OT: Scripture reveals The Lord Appeared AS an Angel in the form of a man.
NT: Scripture reveals The Lord Appeared AS a Jewish man, in a Body God Prepared.

 

[n2thelight]

Wrath of the Lamb. Rev 6:16
Devils Wrath. Rev 12:12
Gods Wrath. Rev 16:1




7 last plagues. Rev 15:1

And that means what to you ?Again it's the deception

So we know when Christ returns we shall all be changed correct ,so my question is how many times does that happen(the change)?
Rapture happens you changed and then those left will be changed at the 2nd coming correct.

 

[n2thelight]

Image and likeness. You should look up the Hebrew definitions for those words.

Help me out

 

[Taken]

And that means what to you ?Again it's the deception

Means to me, God is Faithful.
Means to you, God is Deceptive.

So we know when Christ returns

* It was The Son of man that came to Earth; Humbled.
* While ON Earth, The Son of man, was Revealed, IS the Son of God, IS the Christ.
* It is The Son of man, that SHALL RETURN to Earth; With Power.

we shall all be changed correct

Who is “we”? The Convert IN Christ? The Jews? The Unbelievers?

,so my question is how many times does that happen(the change)?

How many times does “change” happen?
Once.
But you have Every Person in the SAME boat, (so to speak).
* some are already “changed”, IN Christ.
* some are still deciding. Believing but “NOT” committing.
* some are Not Believing in Christ.
* some are Not Believing in God.
* some are Not Believing and persecuting those who do believe/ and those who do commit.
* some are promoting evil and wickedness.

Rapture happens you changed and then those left will be changed at the 2nd coming correct.

Rapture is a term, specific to those converted “IN” Christ, specifically such people, while alive in their flesh, Have committed by their heartful Word; Belief In God and Jesus IS the Christ Messiah of God.
They have AGREED, to lay down their bodily life with Jesus, Crucified.
They have AGRRED, to become soul saved (Gods restoration)
They have AGREED, to become spirit quickened (born again of Gods seed)
They have AGREED, that ONLY the Lord God Almighty, BE THEIR God.

Inasmuch as men PLEDGE their Allegiance, to a flag, to a nation, to a spouse, etc.
Men can PLEDGE their Allegiance to ONLY THE ONE Lord God Almighty.

Those Raptured, HAVE PLEDGED their Allegiance TO ONLY:
The ONE:
Lord (Word Jesus) God (Heavenly Father) Almighty (Power/Christ).

Those NOT Raptured, remain ON Earth.
From Heaven to Earth, Begins Wrath (Tribulation from Heaven); UPON the “unrighteous”.
The “unrighteous”, IS ANYONE who has “NOT” pledged Allegiance:
TO the Lord, TO God, TO the Almighty.

During the Tribulation...IS WHEN, individuals who HAD NOT MADE an Allegiance....DO MAKE their Allegiances, (and become SAVED, then BODILY KILLED, “giving “THEIR” bodily life to God”.) Their soul and spirit go to Heaven. THEIR bodies raised after the 1,000 yr reign.
(First Resurrection).

Also during the Tribulations...IS WHEN, some individuals WILL Expressly REJECT MAKING their Allegiance TO the Lord, TO God, TO the Almighty.
They toward the end of the Tribulation shall all be KILLED. Their Bodies raised after the 1,000 yr reign. (Second Resurrection).

Before Tribulation from Heaven;
Rapture......Raising those Already WHOLE...body, soul, spirit.
After Tribulation from Heaven; After 1,000 Yr Reign,
First Resurrection....Raising those MADE WHOLE during Trib.
Second Resurrection...Raising those NOT MADE WHOLE during Trib.

It’s more in-depth, but you want a simple carnal answer to a spiritual question. “WE”...who?