The Pre-Trib Rapture

[ewq1938]

The entire earth surface will be burned up, as I already said before. He compared that event directly to what happened with the flood where the flood waters covered the entire earth surface.

He also used the example of Sodom where the killing was localized rather than global. At least fire was used in that one.

No global slaughter at the second coming, with promises that the nations will survive to be ruled over by a rod of iron. This global slaughter thing is a non-biblical invention of Amillennialism. You are forced to ignore that RULE in Revelation 19 is future tense. You have to ignore even addressing this so you can defend your doctrine.

 

[n2thelight]

No. There are many days of the Lord and they should not be confused as one single day. The day of the Lord when the New Heaven and new Earth happens is a different day of the Lord when the second coming happens.

No there not, show me any Day of the Lord verse in scripture that is not referring to His 2nd coming and that Day ,the millennium ?

 

[ewq1938]

No there not, show me any Day of the Lord verse in scripture that is not referring to His 2nd coming and that Day ,the millennium ?

Isa_13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

This isn't the day of the second coming because sinners aren't destroyed until the GWTJ, nor is the land made desolate at the second coming second coming. So this "day of the Lord" differs with the "day of the Lord" associated with the second coming.

Eze 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
Eze 13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

And here is a completely different "day of the Lord" not associated with the second coming or the day the Lord casts sinners in the LOF.

There are MANY days of the Lord. A day of the Lord is a day when God does something important. There are many of them.

 

[Taken]

@ewq1938

Jesus is God because his Father, God, addressed him as "O God"- Hebrews 1:8 , Psalms 45:6
Jesus is God because he, himself, says he is God: "I will be his God"- Revelation 21:7
Jesus is God because the bible says he is God: "The mighty God" - Isaiah 9:6
Jesus is God because his disciples knew he was God:
"my Lord and my God" - John 20:28
"our God and Savior Jesus Christ" - 2 Peter 1:1
"the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" - Titus 2:13
Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God & Christ was that same Rock: Psalms 78:35, 1 Corinthians 10:4

Amen!
Glory to God,
Taken

 

[n2thelight]

Isa_13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

This isn't the day of the second coming because sinners aren't destroyed until the GWTJ, nor is the land made desolate at the second coming second coming. So this "day of the Lord" differs with the "day of the Lord" associated with the second coming.

Eze 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
Eze 13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

And here is a completely different "day of the Lord" not associated with the second coming or the day the Lord casts sinners in the LOF.

There are MANY days of the Lord. A day of the Lord is a day when God does something important. There are many of them.

Verses you provided all starts the millennium

 

[Taken]

The Pre-Trib Rapture
OP ^

Yes!

First Great Tribulation of Gods Wrath Upon the Earth,
God SAVED 8 FROM Gods Wrath;
BY Lifting them UP to the clouds;
Above the Face of the Earth.

Nothing NEW. History Repeats.

Second and Last Great Tribulation of Gods Wrath Upon the Earth,
God SHALL SAVE the Converted IN Christ, FROM Gods Wrath;
BY Lifting them UP to the clouds;
Above the Face of the Earth.

Mankind has flown airplanes, under, in, through, above the clouds...

I am confidant God can manage to LIFT UP Off the face of the Earth, To the Clouds, men WHO;
* Have laid down their Life FOR Him,
* Have confessed their Heartful Belief IN the Lord God Almighty.
* Have accepted His eternal Gift of Salvation.

Holy, Holy, Holy, is our Great Lord God Almighty,
Taken

 

[ewq1938]

Verses you provided all starts the millennium

Neither of them are related to the second coming or the Millennium.

 

[Taken]

Isa_13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

THAT ^ is at the ending of the millennial reign.
After Satan is loosed.
Satan influences the Nations (established during the millennial reign) to come AGAINST Christ Jesus’ Kingdom.
The Lord Returns, as the Son of Man, coming with clouds, AND coming with Power.
His Saints WITH Him. Those of the Nations Looking UP, see Him, mourn.
His Anger is fierce, His Wrath is cruel, reaping the earth, of sin and corruption.

This isn't the day of the second coming because sinners aren't destroyed until the GWTJ,

Killed is one thing.
Judged is another thing.
(All flesh shall die.)
(All flesh shall be raised, and judged)
(All flesh so raised, is some raised to glory, some raised to damnation)
(All saved are glorified, their works judged, burned or rewarded)
Destroyed is yet another thing.
The damned shall be destroyed.

 

[ewq1938]

THAT ^ is at the ending of the millennial reign.
After Satan is loosed.

Which proves that there is more than one "day of the Lord".

 

[Taken]

Which proves that there is more than one "day of the Lord".

Not sure that proves more than one “day of the Lord”.
However throughout history and forward to future, I would agree there are multiple “days of the Lord”; revealed, as ‘this day’, ‘these days”, “that day”, “his day”; When the Lord is expressly giving us notice of “supernatural EVENTS and EFFECTS thereof” are accredited to Him.

Luke 2:
[11] For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Acts 13:
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Acts 3:
[24] Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Heb 1:
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

John 14:
[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Luke 17:
[24] For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

(Side Note; concerning another ongoing debate of Mary being the Mother of God.
Note: Luke 2:11...this day, a Savior was born.
Note: Acts 13:33...this day, God has begotten His Son.
Two Different, “days”.
* Just something specific to ponder.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Timtofly]

The entire earth surface will be burned up, as I already said before. He compared that event directly to what happened with the flood where the flood waters covered the entire earth surface.

Peter said the works thereof. I will go with Peter instead of the entire earth's surface. I think you are being hyper literal. Your point is the earth is not dissolved.

Is there a difference between God's works and those of the earth? What is earthly and what is of God?

 

[Timtofly]

Isa_13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

This isn't the day of the second coming because sinners aren't destroyed until the GWTJ, nor is the land made desolate at the second coming second coming. So this "day of the Lord" differs with the "day of the Lord" associated with the second coming.

Eze 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
Eze 13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

And here is a completely different "day of the Lord" not associated with the second coming or the day the Lord casts sinners in the LOF.

There are MANY days of the Lord. A day of the Lord is a day when God does something important. There are many of them.

The GWT event in Revelation 20 is not even part of creation or time. It certainly is not a day of the Lord. The dead stand before God without a resurrection, and without bodies. They are not destroyed. They are cast, literally thrown, into the LOF.

If any from sheol decide they want eternal life, only they will live again and be resurrected from death. But those in the LOF are not living again. They are literally starting the second death of eternal physical and spiritual separation from God. The first death was physical in sheol. The second death is of the spirit now joined with the soul in the LOF. That is the second death. The second death is not a second physical death. There is only one physical death. The second death is the spirit and soul being cast into the LOF. The second resurrection would be being brought out of the LOF spiritually where the soul and spirit is given both physical and spiritual life with God.

 

[Timtofly]

THAT ^ is at the ending of the millennial reign.
After Satan is loosed.
Satan influences the Nations (established during the millennial reign) to come AGAINST Christ Jesus’ Kingdom.
The Lord Returns, as the Son of Man, coming with clouds, AND coming with Power.
His Saints WITH Him. Those of the Nations Looking UP, see Him, mourn.
His Anger is fierce, His Wrath is cruel, reaping the earth, of sin and corruption.



Killed is one thing.
Judged is another thing.
(All flesh shall die.)
(All flesh shall be raised, and judged)
(All flesh so raised, is some raised to glory, some raised to damnation)
(All saved are glorified, their works judged, burned or rewarded)
Destroyed is yet another thing.
The damned shall be destroyed.

No, that is the Second Coming, at the 6th Seal.

 

[Taken]

No, that is the Second Coming, at the 6th Seal.

Ecc. 1:
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

There WAS great Tribulation that came down from Heaven.
There SHALL BE AGAIN great Tribulation that comes down from Heaven.

Was God ON earth as He was Sending DOWN from Heaven His Tribulation the First Time, or does some Scripture notify you God SHALL BE on earth as He is Sending DOWN His Tribulation from Heaven a Second Time?

Gods First Tribulation Had His “SAVED”, preparing for Years, preserved safely for 7 Days, and Lifted UP, as God was Destroying the Earth.

Gods Second and Last Tribulation Has His “SAVED”, preparing for Years, preserved safely for 7 Years, and Lifted UP, as God Shall Again Destroy the Earth.

In the First Tribulation, the Destruction and Death, was somewhat mild and increased with intensity.

During the Last Tribulation, the Destruction and Death, Shall be somewhat mild and Shall increase with intensity.

The 7 SEALS are the first “stage”....
The 7 TRUMPS increase the Destruction and Death.
The 7 VIALS mixed with Gods VENGEANCE exponentially increase the Destruction and men will WISH for Death, but SHALL live through the excruciating experience....and then Die.

So, you think God is ON Earth while Destroying the Earth? What leads you to believe that?

 

[ewq1938]

Not sure that proves more than one “day of the Lord”.

One day of the Lord is the second coming another day of the Lord is after the thousand years.

 

[Timtofly]

Ecc. 1:
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

There WAS great Tribulation that came down from Heaven.
There SHALL BE AGAIN great Tribulation that comes down from Heaven.

Was God ON earth as He was Sending DOWN from Heaven His Tribulation the First Time, or does some Scripture notify you God SHALL BE on earth as He is Sending DOWN His Tribulation from Heaven a Second Time?

Gods First Tribulation Had His “SAVED”, preparing for Years, preserved safely for 7 Days, and Lifted UP, as God was Destroying the Earth.

Gods Second and Last Tribulation Has His “SAVED”, preparing for Years, preserved safely for 7 Years, and Lifted UP, as God Shall Again Destroy the Earth.

In the First Tribulation, the Destruction and Death, was somewhat mild and increased with intensity.

During the Last Tribulation, the Destruction and Death, Shall be somewhat mild and Shall increase with intensity.

The 7 SEALS are the first “stage”....
The 7 TRUMPS increase the Destruction and Death.
The 7 VIALS mixed with Gods VENGEANCE exponentially increase the Destruction and men will WISH for Death, but SHALL live through the excruciating experience....and then Die.

So, you think God is ON Earth while Destroying the Earth? What leads you to believe that?

Matthew 13 tells us Jesus is on the earth for the final harvest. Matthew 25 tells us Jesus is sitting on a throne in Jerusalem calling the sheep and goats out of all the Nations.

Certainly Jesus cannot be here before the Second Coming. Certainly at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal, Jesus is here on earth. Why is no one currently hiding from the unseen? They are only going to hide after Jesus arrives. Also the Great White Throne is in full view, the same place it currently sets on the earth, reaching into the heavens. We just cannot see it, but it is there. God is already present on earth. Jesus will leave Paradise at the same time the throne is revealed. That GWT will never move. After the Millennium, heaven and earth will dissappear. Yet the GWT remains. There will be a NHNE.

 

[Taken]

Matthew 13 tells us Jesus is on the earth for the final harvest. Matthew 25 tells us Jesus is sitting on a throne in Jerusalem calling the sheep and goats out of all the Nations.

Certainly Jesus cannot be here before the Second Coming. Certainly at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal, Jesus is here on earth. Why is no one currently hiding from the unseen? They are only going to hide after Jesus arrives. Also the Great White Throne is in full view, the same place it currently sets on the earth, reaching into the heavens. We just cannot see it, but it is there. God is already present on earth. Jesus will leave Paradise at the same time the throne is revealed. That GWT will never move. After the Millennium, heaven and earth will dissappear. Yet the GWT remains. There will be a NHNE.

IF you believe God is omnipresent...
IF you believe God has numerous names, titles, descriptions...
AND IF you recognize The name by which God is called, describes something particular associated with THAT name...

AND IF you believe Jesus IS God in the Flesh...
IF you believe Jesus is omnipresent...
IF you believe Jesus has numerous titles, descriptions...
AND IF you recognize The title, descriptions by which Jesus is called, describes something particular associated with THAT title, description,
TO:

“IF”...”THEN”....reasonably conclude WHAT He is doing WHEN.

God’s WRATH, sent from Heaven to Earth, IS Gods Second Tribulation UPON the Earth and the Earths inhabitants.
(Same as Gods First Tribulation).

Ancient history...God was WITH “some” men, YET all Nations came AGAINST God...thus, Gods First Great Tribulation.
(The SAVED “some” men were RAISED UP above the face of the Earth, WHILE God Destroyed the Earth, which inturn CAUSED DEATH of those things upon the face of the EARTH).

Gen 6
[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Gen 7
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

Warning future...God is WITH “some” men, YET all Nations shall AGAIN come AGAINST God...thus, Gods Second Great Tribulation.
(OPEN EYES, OPEN EARS...Nations head spokesmen are establishing “themselves” as the “peace, safety and saviors” of mankind.
“Some” men are in Standing “WITH” them.
“Some” men are in Standing “WITH” God.

Gods Second Tribulation, is sent down from Heaven in Expressly Revealed increments of THREE sets of SEVEN, increasing in Severity.

The LAMB of God, is in Heaven and OPENS the 7 SEALS, one by one, revealing the effects of each opened seal.

WHOM SHALL THAT specific WRATH “effect”?
* Every man, WHOM, has REJECTED “JESUS” is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
* It is EVEN specifically CALLED: the WRATH of the LAMB.
(Rev 6:16)

Remember it was the Son of Man, that was sent to Earth.
Remember it is Saved men (IN Christ) who are Lifted up off the face of the earth (same as in Noah’s day).
Remember it is the Lord who meets, the Saved Lifted up.
Remember it is the Lamb that Opens the Seals.
Remember During the TRUMPS, it is God that sends, His 2 Witnesses, His 144,000 to Preach to the Jews, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that they will Know and Believe.
Remember During the TRUMPS, the Devils WRATH increases AGAINST Jews that are Hearing, Believing, Accepting, Being Killed by Satan for their Belief, and being Saved.
Remember the VIALS being poured out on remaining making their allegiance to Satan.
Remember Gods Angel Servant BINDS Satan 1,000 years.
* Remember CHRIST comes to Earth WITH His Saints, (the Raptured Saved) Sits on king Davids everlasting Throne, (for 1,000 years) OF CHRIST’S Kingdom, the Land Promised Abraham and his heirs.
* Remember the Remnant of mortals, remaining on Earth, establishing boundaries, cities, Nations.
* Remember the ending of the 1,000 years, Satan is loosed.
* Remember AGAIN Satan influences MORTAL men, MORTAL nations, to Come Against Christ and His Saints and His Kingdom. “They defeated”.
* Remember it is the Son of Man, which shall DESCEND FROM HEAVEN, BE SEEN “IN THE CLOUDS” REAPING the Earth, Those WITH Him, From Those WITHOUT Him. (Rev 14; 14)
* Those WITHOUT Him, shall mourn, WHEN they SEE and realize WHOM they rejected. Oops.
* Remember After the 1,000 Years, God shall Bring WITH Him, those who Chose to Believe during the Tribulation, called; IN JESUS.
....(1 Thes 4:14)
....(Rev 20:5)
* Remember AFTER the REAPING, WHO is Left on Earth.
* Those WITHOUT God, the same who are WiTH Satan.
* The VIALS, the Last of the SEVEN Judgements of God upon all that are WITHOUT God and WITH Satan.
....(Rev 16:1)
....(Rev 21:9)

Study IN context of WHO is doing WHAT, WHEN, WHY.

The Final Harvest is NOT after the Seals are opened.
The Seals ARE the Beginning of Gods Tribulation that comes down from Heaven.

 

[Timtofly]

* Remember After the 1,000 Years, God shall Bring WITH Him, those who Chose to Believe during the Tribulation, called; IN JESUS.

Jesus is already on earth for the 1,000 years. No return at that time. Jesus hands back the kingdom at that time.

Jesus is on earth for the final harvest. The Trumpets and the Thunders. These take place after the Second Coming.

 

[Taken]

Jesus is already on earth for the 1,000 years. No return at that time. Jesus hands back the kingdom at that time.

Jesus is on earth for the final harvest. The Trumpets and the Thunders. These take place after the Second Coming.

Study closer.

 

[Timtofly]

Study closer.

I have. I read Matthew 13.