What if you lose your faith?

[Ferris Bueller]

Never forget—- it wasn’t Robbers and Murderers that Sent Jesus to the Cross and Killed Him—- it was the RELIGIOUS People! Just like the kind that we see in here every day.

No, he died for all sinners, not just your favorite sinner to hate:

"18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God." 1 Peter 3:18​

 

[Johann]

Do you love people who think works earn them salvation?

There's a problem here, after the resurrection of Christ Jesus the WRATH of God now presently abides on all who don't want to believe into the name of Jesus.
J.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Religious people of Jesus day killed Him then, and if ever given the chance , the Religious People Of today would do the SAME THING now! Why? They did not Know Him THEN, and they Do Not Know Him Now!

The crowd, who wouldn't know a legalist from their local postman gave their overwhelming support to the murder of Jesus.

"23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross." Acts of the Apostles 2:23​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There's a problem here, after the resurrection of Christ Jesus the WRATH of God now presently abides on all who don't want to believe into the name of Jesus.
J.

That doesn't mean he did not love them and want them to be saved:

"9The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9​

 

[GodsGrace]

I can tell the PRESENT state of Anybody’s Soul.....The tongue reveals what is in the Heart Of a man....If a man says merely the following——- “Jesus is “ A” son of God” , as opposed to saying , “ Jesus is THE SON Of God”, he is Lost at that point in time....( if he has held this view without ever having any Faith in Jesus in his entire life)
Of course, me nor anybody else can say with any certainty that that man will NEVER be Saved—- he could become a Believer before he kicked the bucket...

Sure BB.
Your last sentence is precisely why we cannot judge anyone's soul.

 

[GodsGrace]

Acts10:13—- “Anybody that ASKS to be Saved, WILL BE Saved”.....God made That Promise and God can not lie .....Notice that God did NOT say that if you ask to be Saved , you “ Might” be Saved, or “ Congratulations , you Now have a “ CHANCE” to be Saved....He said , “ YOU WILL BE SAVED!” ....The “ Monkey” is on HIS back —- Not Mine! I did MY part— I ASKED.......Now it is up to HIM to do HIS part, which is to Save me..... I Believe That God keeps His Word .....Do you?

I agree.

But we weren't discussing Acts 10:13
You, or someone, I'm losing track, brought up John 10.

My point is that we must be in the fold at the time of our death.

 

[Johann]

That doesn't mean he did not love them and want them to be saved:

"9The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9​

The Day of the Lord Will Come
2Pe 3:1 This is now, beloved, the second epistle that I write unto you; and in both of them I stir up your sincere mind by putting you in remembrance;
2Pe 3:2 that ye should remember the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and the commandment of the Lord and Saviour through your apostles:
2Pe 3:3 knowing this first, that in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they wilfully forget, that there were heavens from of old, and an earth compacted out of water and amidst water, by the word of God;
2Pe 3:6 by which means the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 but the heavens that now are, and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing that these things are thus all to be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy living and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Final Words
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for these things, give diligence that ye may be found in peace, without spot and blameless in his sight.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you;
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware lest, being carried away with the error of the wicked, ye fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Just to put it in context for you
J.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There is at least Hope for a Murderer ( like David and Mose and Paul) ....there is NO HOPE for those that preach a “ Different” Gospel than the one that Paul preached( 1Cor15:1-4 )—- They are “ Accursed” —- Damned Eternally By God...

What do you mean there's no hope for them??? Paul was one of those...

"If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin; a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, persecuting the church; as to righteousness in the law, faultless.7But whatever was gain to me I count as loss for the sake of Christ. 8More than that, I count all things as loss compared to the surpassing excellence of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ" Philippians 3:4-8​

...maybe you sympathize with this types because” Birds of a Feather Flock together..... I don’t really know.

I don't sympathize with them, because I'm not one of them. I empathize with them because they do not have the life that I and others have in the Spirit, and are, instead, lost and separated from us in their legalistic living and worship:

"17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking (the legalisms of life and worship), but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit." Romans 14:17 ​

I actually care that they haven't experienced this righteousness, peace, and joy. I really do. And so I love them. I would never harm them. Love does no harm to a neighbor (Romans 13:10). I may not like some of them, but I am to never harm them or hate them in my heart (Leviticus 19:17).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Unrepentant Lot

Oi vey, what are we going to do with you, BB, lol:

"Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless" 2 Peter 2:7​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No, agree to disagree.
J.

How can you disagree that there is witness without the Spirit that is not so powerful, and witness with the Spirit that is powerful?

 

[GodsGrace]

Preaching.

So the prize is preaching?
Paul is saying that we RUN FOR THE PRIZE.
And h e states that even HE could be disqualified.

He could be disqualified from GETTING THE PRIZE.
The prize is eternal life.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize?
You think only one person that is running will go to heaven?


24Run in such a way that you may win.
Is Paul trying to get everyone to be a preacher?
I thought his ministry was to proclaim the gospel message.


25....they run to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
Is preaching imperishable or is eternal life imperishable?

27but I buffet my body and make it a slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.



Maybe you should read some commentaries that might help you to understand better...:
Barnes Notes
When I have preached to others - Doddridge renders this, "lest after having served as a herald to others, I should myself be disapproved;" and supposes that there was allusion in this to the Grecian "herald," whose business it was to proclaim the conditions of the games, to display the prizes, etc. In this interpretation, also, Macknight, Rosenmuller, Koppe, and most of the modern interpreters agree. They suppose, therefore, that the allusion to the games is carried through all this description. But there is this difficulty in this interpretation, that it represents the apostle as both a herald and a contender in the games and thus leads to an inextricable confusion of metaphor. Probably, therefore; this is to be taken in the usual sense of the word "preaching" in the New Testament; and the apostle here is to be understood as "dropping" the metaphor, and speaking in the usual manner. He had preached to others, to many others. He had proclaimed the gospel far and near. He had preached to many thousands, and had been the means of the conversion of thousands. The contest, the agony, the struggle in which he had been engaged, was that of preaching the gospel in the most effectual manner. And yet he felt that there was a possibility that even after all this he might be lost.

I myself should be a cast-away. - This word (ἀδόκιμος adokimos) is taken from "bad metals" and properly denotes those which will not bear the "test" that is applied to them; that are found to be base and worthless, and are therefore rejected and cast away.


Ellicott's Commentary
Lest that by any means.—Better, lest having been a herald to others, I myself should be rejected. The image is carried on, and the Apostle says that he has a further motive to live a life of self-denial—viz., that he having acted as a herald, proclaiming the conditions of the contest and the requisite preliminaries for it, should not be found to have himself fulfilled them. It is the same image kept up still of this race, and of the herald who announced the name of the victor, and the fact that he had fulfilled the necessary conditions. It was not the custom for the herald to join in the contest, but the Apostle was himself both a runner in the Christian course, and a herald of the conditions of that race to others. Hence, naturally, he speaks of the two characters, which in the actual illustration would be distinct, as united in one when applied spiritually to himself. The word “cast away” conveys a wrong impression. The Greek word signifies one who had not behaved according to the prescribed regulations.


Jamieson
preached—literally, "heralded." He keeps up the image from the races. The heralds summoned the candidates for the foot race into the race course [Plato, Laws, 8.833], and placed the crowns on the brows of the conquerors, announcing their names [Bengel]. They probably proclaimed also the laws of the combat; answering to the preaching of the apostles [Alford]. The The Christian herald is also a combatant, in which respect he is distinguished from the herald at the games.

a castaway—failing shamefully of the prize myself, after I have called others to the contest. Rejected by God, the Judge of the Christian race, notwithstanding my having, by my preaching, led others to be accepted. Compare the equivalent term, "reprobate," Jer 6:30; 2Co 13:6. Paul implies, if such earnest, self-denying watchfulness over himself be needed still, with all his labors for others, to make his own calling sure, much more is the same needed by the Corinthians, instead of their going, as they do, to the extreme limit of Christian liberty.

and many others...
source: 1 Corinthians 9:27 Commentaries: but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

 

[Johann]

How can you disagree that there is witness without the Spirit that is not so powerful, and witness with the Spirit that is powerful?

Simple.
There is water baptism
There is Spirit baptism

And I think you misunderstand me, as per usual.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, in 'Chariots of Fire' Abrahams is sulking because he's just lost a race, then up comes Sam Mussabini the trainer and says "I can give you another yard".
The rest is history, Abrahams goes on to win Olympic Gold.
In a sense, Jesus is the "trainer" that humans need to win the race for salvation..

View attachment 23548

Right. Great movie.
This brings to mind ...

Luke 16:6-9
6And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
7“And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’
8“And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
9and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”

 

[Johann]

So the prize is preaching?
Paul is saying that we RUN FOR THE PRIZE.
And h e states that even HE could be disqualified.

He could be disqualified from GETTING THE PRIZE.
The prize is eternal life.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize?
You think only one person that is running will go to heaven?


24Run in such a way that you may win.
Is Paul trying to get everyone to be a preacher?
I thought his ministry was to proclaim the gospel message.


25....they run to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
Is preaching imperishable or is eternal life imperishable?

27but I buffet my body and make it a slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.



Maybe you should read some commentaries that might help you to understand better...:
Barnes Notes
When I have preached to others - Doddridge renders this, "lest after having served as a herald to others, I should myself be disapproved;" and supposes that there was allusion in this to the Grecian "herald," whose business it was to proclaim the conditions of the games, to display the prizes, etc. In this interpretation, also, Macknight, Rosenmuller, Koppe, and most of the modern interpreters agree. They suppose, therefore, that the allusion to the games is carried through all this description. But there is this difficulty in this interpretation, that it represents the apostle as both a herald and a contender in the games and thus leads to an inextricable confusion of metaphor. Probably, therefore; this is to be taken in the usual sense of the word "preaching" in the New Testament; and the apostle here is to be understood as "dropping" the metaphor, and speaking in the usual manner. He had preached to others, to many others. He had proclaimed the gospel far and near. He had preached to many thousands, and had been the means of the conversion of thousands. The contest, the agony, the struggle in which he had been engaged, was that of preaching the gospel in the most effectual manner. And yet he felt that there was a possibility that even after all this he might be lost.

I myself should be a cast-away. - This word (ἀδόκιμος adokimos) is taken from "bad metals" and properly denotes those which will not bear the "test" that is applied to them; that are found to be base and worthless, and are therefore rejected and cast away.


Ellicott's Commentary
Lest that by any means.—Better, lest having been a herald to others, I myself should be rejected. The image is carried on, and the Apostle says that he has a further motive to live a life of self-denial—viz., that he having acted as a herald, proclaiming the conditions of the contest and the requisite preliminaries for it, should not be found to have himself fulfilled them. It is the same image kept up still of this race, and of the herald who announced the name of the victor, and the fact that he had fulfilled the necessary conditions. It was not the custom for the herald to join in the contest, but the Apostle was himself both a runner in the Christian course, and a herald of the conditions of that race to others. Hence, naturally, he speaks of the two characters, which in the actual illustration would be distinct, as united in one when applied spiritually to himself. The word “cast away” conveys a wrong impression. The Greek word signifies one who had not behaved according to the prescribed regulations.


Jamieson
preached—literally, "heralded." He keeps up the image from the races. The heralds summoned the candidates for the foot race into the race course [Plato, Laws, 8.833], and placed the crowns on the brows of the conquerors, announcing their names [Bengel]. They probably proclaimed also the laws of the combat; answering to the preaching of the apostles [Alford]. The The Christian herald is also a combatant, in which respect he is distinguished from the herald at the games.

a castaway—failing shamefully of the prize myself, after I have called others to the contest. Rejected by God, the Judge of the Christian race, notwithstanding my having, by my preaching, led others to be accepted. Compare the equivalent term, "reprobate," Jer 6:30; 2Co 13:6. Paul implies, if such earnest, self-denying watchfulness over himself be needed still, with all his labors for others, to make his own calling sure, much more is the same needed by the Corinthians, instead of their going, as they do, to the extreme limit of Christian liberty.

and many others...
source: 1 Corinthians 9:27 Commentaries: but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Careful, these ous don't like "commentaries" yet the Jews had their own "commentaries" the Oral Law and much more.
J.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Sure BB.
Your last sentence is precisely why we cannot judge anyone's soul.

That is right:

4My conscience is clear, but that does not vindicate me. It is the Lord who judges me.5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes." 1 Corinthians 4:4-5​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Simple.
There is water baptism
There is Spirit baptism

That is correct. But it's not impossible that one be baptized in the power of the Spirit at their water baptism. Particularly, if the invitation to be water baptized is presented that way.

 

[Johann]

That is correct. But it's not impossible that one be baptized in the power of the Spirit at their water baptism. Particularly, if the invitation to be water baptized is presented that way.

Plenty examples of people being baptized by and in the Spirit before they even take a dip in the ocean.

Act_18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

Act_19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Act_19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Eph_4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Col_2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

In these verses, water, or Spirit baptism?
J.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So the prize is preaching?
Paul is saying that we RUN FOR THE PRIZE.
And h e states that even HE could be disqualified.

He could be disqualified from GETTING THE PRIZE.
The prize is eternal life.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize?
You think only one person that is running will go to heaven?


24Run in such a way that you may win.
Is Paul trying to get everyone to be a preacher?
I thought his ministry was to proclaim the gospel message.


25....they run to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
Is preaching imperishable or is eternal life imperishable?

27but I buffet my body and make it a slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

Yes, Paul is speaking of the prize of eternal life, the crown of righteousness:

7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8From now on there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day" 2 Timothy 4:7​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Plenty examples of people being baptized by and in the Spirit before they even take a dip in the ocean.

I made note of this in my posts. What I'm defending here is the fact that water baptism is also a legitimate way a person can be empowered with a gift of the Spirit.

 

[Johann]

I made note of this in my posts. What I'm defending here is the fact that water baptism is also a legitimate way a person can be empowered with a gift of the Spirit.

Not the way I see it, no offense, the thief on the cross never went near water and the thief on the cross is "reasoned away" like so many other doctrines.
Show me scripture references that I may obtain a martureo in order for me to receive a gift or a witness and to know my calling and election, a witness to the effect that I was there when our Lord was crucified, died a violent death, and was gloriously resurrected and seated at the right hand of the Father on high.
Not being argumentative
J.