The Abortion question

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Dropship

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I never married or had kids but I think if a young daughter of mine came home and said "I'm preggers", I'd break into a smile and say something like "Good, we need a baby around here to liven things up, but do you want to have the baby?" and take it from there depending on her reply.
If she said "Yes", I'd say "right, start thinking of a name for him or her, and later we'll nip down Mothercare to start buying baby stuff"..:)

But if she said "No, I don't want to have it",
I'd say "Well there's no hurry, take your time to think about it and ask your friends and internet chums and granny and grandad what they'd do in your place and we'll talk again later."
Who knows, she might start googling baby pictures and think "Ahh so cute, I think I want to have mine after all"..:)
 

Taken

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Dropship, just a followup on what "organized religion" has to say on the subject, something Jews have dealt with for thousands of years.

The Bible says that a fetus does not become a living being until God breathes into it the Breath of Life; and accordingly rabbinical studies have declared that a fetus is not a "viable" living being while still in womb. It is just part of the mother's body. It does not become a "viable" living being until after exiting from the womb, and the umbilical cord has been severed. It is only then, that a fetus takes it's first breath and become a "viable" living being, and God breathes into it the Breath of Life, and is capable of living on it's own without being connected to the mother.

Agree. Study of scripture reveals the Truth.
 

Taken

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“So Boaz took Ruth, and she was his wife: and when he went in unto her, the LORD gave her conception, and she bare a son.” (Ruth 4:13)

I don’t think taking something God gives and then destroying it is wise.

He can also prevent conception if it’s his will:

“For the LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.” (Genesis 20:18)

Conception is one thing. An egg able to become fertilized.
Conceived is another thing. A fertilized egg.
@Stan B
 

Taken

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Dropship, you will hear a lot of anti-God, anti-Bible anti-abortion cult here. But Scripture does not contain a "Thou shalt not have an abortion" law. Quite the opposite. In certain instances, Scripture demands abortion.

For instance, Scriptural demand for abortion goes all the way back to the Books of the Law where an abortion drug was administered by the priest to an adultress:

"But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” Numbers 5:20-22 NIV

In this instance, anti-abortionists are declaring: that God is not nearly as holy as they are; God is a murderer!!

Then in Hosea 9:13-16, the prophet Hosea prayed to God to abort the fetuses of his enemies which God did.

For you have played the harlot, forsaking your God.

7 The days of punishment have come,
The days of retribution have come;

11 As for Ephraim, their glory will fly away like a bird—
No birth, no pregnancy and no conception!
12 Though they bring up their children,
Yet I will bereave them until not a man is left.
Yes, woe to them indeed when I depart from them!
13 Ephraim, as I have seen,
Is planted in a pleasant meadow like Tyre;
But Ephraim will bring out his children for slaughter.
14 Give them, O Lord what will You give?

Hoseas's prayer: Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

16 Ephraim is stricken, their root is dried up,
They will bear no fruit.
Even though they bear children,
I will slay the precious ones of their womb.
17 My God will cast them away
Because they have not listened to Him;

And thus the identity of Tribe of Ephraim disappeared as it was assimilated into the surrounding nations.

IMO, the anti-abortion cult is Satanic, trying destroy peoples' freedom and force their false religion onto every else. That is Satan's way of doing things.

God’s intent for His created manKIND was always ABOUT God.
His Desire for manKIND to desire to BE “like” Him.

ManKIND “reproducers”, are not much different. They too have their Desires, wanting their offspring to BE “like” them, “with pickiness”, so to speak. That is to say manKIND want’s their offspring to HAVE all the “attributes” the parents “DO like about them own selves.”

Gets a bit tricky, in the case of a Rape for instance. It’s a fearful thing, for a female to be surprised, violently attacked, threatened, beaten, forced to engage, and find out her attacker’s good attributes are nil and the attacker has a long history of “his normal” behavior is “abnormal”; it is truly frightening.
Full well knowing, the female will have to work to provide for that child....Compound that with the 24-7 propaganda from, cartoons, programs, commercials, daycare providers, neighbors, other children, teachers, pseudo news...that child, by default will be exposed to.

Gods Desire for manKind to be “like” Him, has an ORDER and WAY, example for manKind.
Hear, Learn ABOUT God, BEFORE choosing. Applies for manKIND toward God, same as it Applies for manKIND toward manKIND.
A Rapist steals by force a woman’s option to follow Gods ORDER and WAY.

That of course is the extreme regarding a woman mulling over an abortion.
On the other hand, society has “normalized” abortion being an “option” for loose sex” ie. pregnancy termination.

Just saying, one shoe does not fit all.
 
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amigo de christo

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24418_c2022b0d4f7712608709a77815969464.png
 
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Stan B

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A miss carriage is not an abortion.

Miss carrying is out of the hands of the mother’s control (usually).

An abortion is an action carried out.

When God chose to abort all the fetuses in the Tribe of Ephraim, that wasn't just an isolated instance. God has used abortion elsewhere throughout history.

Abortion/miscarriage/bereave: All the same word in Hebrew.

that miscarry
מַשְׁכִּ֔יל (maš·kîl)
Strong's 7921: To miscarry, suffer abortion, to bereave

Same thing happened in Jeremiah's time:

“I will bereave (abort} them of their children, I will destroy My people; They did not repent of their ways. Jeremiah 15:7

I will bereave: Strong's 7921: To miscarry, suffer abortion, to bereave.
 

Grailhunter

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When God chose to abort all the fetuses in the Tribe of Ephraim, that wasn't just an isolated instance. God has used abortion elsewhere throughout history.

Abortion/miscarriage/bereave: All the same word in Hebrew.

that miscarry
מַשְׁכִּ֔יל (maš·kîl)
Strong's 7921: To miscarry, suffer abortion, to bereave

Same thing happened in Jeremiah's time:

“I will bereave (abort} them of their children, I will destroy My people; They did not repent of their ways. Jeremiah 15:7

I will bereave: Strong's 7921: To miscarry, suffer abortion, to bereave.

Find it in the New Testament.
What would Christ do?
 

Taken

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@Stan B ~

We can clearly see the discussions, disagreements over Abortions, that trail off into when life begins, when a developing thing IS a human, when IS a person, etc. and more disagreements into a full blown quagmire.
Understanding something does not mean you support the idea.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Stan B

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Find it in the New Testament.
What would Christ do?

And you expect that Jesus was going to recite the entire law and the prophets to be recorded in the New Testament. What a totally insane idea. He said, if you want to know, then go read the Old Testament, which is an integral essential part of the New Testament

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matt 5:17

So if you want to know where it is found in the New Testament, read the Old Testament!!
 

Stan B

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@Stan B ~

We can clearly see the discussions, disagreements over Abortions, that trail off into when life begins, when a developing thing IS a human, when IS a person, etc. and more disagreements into a full blown quagmire.
Understanding something does not mean you support the idea.

Glory to God,
Taken

The Bible is quite clear on that. I happens when the fetus takes it's first breath, and God breathes into it the breath, spirit of life.
 
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Grailhunter

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And you expect that Jesus was going to recite the entire law and the prophets to be recorded in the New Testament. What a totally insane idea. He said, if you want to know, then go read the Old Testament, which is an integral essential part of the New Testament

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matt 5:17

So if you want to know where it is found in the New Testament, read the Old Testament!!

Do you remember when Christ said, Do not put new wine in old wine skins and do not sew new patches on old fabric.....He was talking about Judaism ...the two religions do not mix and any attempt to join them will ruin both. It is not in the Spirit of Christ to murder babies.
How far and twisted can your beliefs be to get there?
 

Taken

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The Bible is quite clear on that. I happens when the fetus takes it's first breath, and God breathes into it the breath, spirit of life.

Agree.
However many, particularly law-makers, then new commentators, and then people under “their” influence, debate opinions rather than facts.
 
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Taken

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Do you remember when Christ said, Do not put new wine in old wine skins and do not sew new patches on old fabric.....He was talking about Judaism ...the two religions do not mix and any attempt to join them will ruin both. It is not in the Spirit of Christ to murder babies.
How far and twisted can your beliefs be to get there?

It is the Spirit of God, to Give Life and Take Life.
Understanding Aborting and Supporting Aborting, is two different things.
I agree with Stan B. Understanding. Don’t change that into Stan B. Supporting, until and unless, that IS “his” claim.

Just Saying.
 
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Stan B

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Do you remember when Christ said, Do not put new wine in old wine skins and do not sew new patches on old fabric.....He was talking about Judaism ...the two religions do not mix and any attempt to join them will ruin both. It is not in the Spirit of Christ to murder babies.
How far and twisted can your beliefs be to get there?

So . . . the spirit your god told you that placing new wine in old skins is all about contaminating your religion with Jews. I have never had an anti-Semitic spirit whisper something like that in my ear.

As a winemaker, it is clear that with all the gas given off by new wine demands a well constructed container to take the pressure.

Whether or not it is the the spirit of your christ to murder babies is perhaps something that should be addressed in the appropriate forum. This forum is about abortion, and has nothing whatsoever to do with babies or murder. Perhaps you will find your answer to that in the Holocaust forum.
 

Grailhunter

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It is the Spirit of God, to Give Life and Take Life.
Understanding Aborting and Supporting Aborting, is two different things.
I agree with Stan B. Understanding. Don’t change that into Stan B. Supporting, until and unless, that IS “his” claim.

Just Saying.

Then you are messed up.
Judaism is not Christianity and Christianity is not Judaism....not physically....not spiritually...not in character....not in perceptions of right and wrong.
 

Grailhunter

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So . . . the spirit your god told you that placing new wine in old skins is all about contaminating your religion with Jews. I have never had an anti-Semitic spirit whisper something like that in my ear.

Do tell me what twisted meaning you think it is.

As a winemaker, it is clear that with all the gas given off by new wine demands a well constructed container to take the pressure.

Wrong again! Christ was not advising wine makers.

Whether or not it is the the spirit of your Christ to murder babies

This thread is about abortion....You tell me if you think it is the Spirit of Christ to murder babies......600,000 babies murdered a year in the US.
Ever heard of the murder of innocence. An unborn baby is the most innocent.
 

Stan B

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Then you are messed up.
Judaism is not Christianity and Christianity is not Judaism....not physically....not spiritually...not in character....not in perceptions of right and wrong.

Giggle! My Bible says "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (a JEW) and thou shalt be saved!"

Your bible apparently says "Believe in Christianity and thou shalt be saved!" Enjoy!
 

Grailhunter

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Giggle! My Bible says "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (a JEW) and thou shalt be saved!"

Your bible apparently says "Believe in Christianity and thou shalt be saved!" Enjoy!

Christ was a Jew but the religion he founded was not Judaism. Do you remember the Jews rejected Him.
Crucify him! Crucify him! Let is his blood be on us and our children....and so it was.
Do you know that modern Jews still reject Him? Because Christianity is not Judaism!
 
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