Religious Liberty!

[David H.]

the church only sits on one hill!

The Vatican sits in Rome, the city of seven hills. Let's just say 1958 marked the apostacy, where are we now then....
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Five have fallen.... John xxiii, Paul vi, John Paul i, John Paul II, Benedict XVI,
One is..... Francis

Other yet to come? short while

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

HMMM! Revelation 17:10-11

You sure you want to be supporting this group?

just sayin'

 

[theefaith]

The Vatican sits in Rome, the city of seven hills. Let's just say 1958 marked the apostacy, where are we now then....
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Five have fallen.... John xxiii, Paul vi, John Paul i, John Paul II, Benedict XVI,
One is..... Francis

Other yet to come? short while

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

HMMM! Revelation 17:10-11

You sure you want to be supporting this group?

just sayin'

you could be right on that one!

some start with pius 11 and the signing of the Lateran treaty

or Francis may be the false prophet

who knows

but it’s the age of deception

and a counterfeit church in apostasy would be a deception of biblical proportions!

there is no rapture!

the church is here until Christ returns Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:8
Matt 24:29-31

 

[David H.]

you could be right on that one!

some start with pius 11 and the signing of the Lateran treaty

or Francis may be the false prophet

who knows

but it’s the age of deception

and a counterfeit church in apostasy would be a deception of biblical proportions!

So Shouldn't we be saying "come out of her my people", instead of proselytizing for the Apostate church? (Revelation 18:4)

 

[Matthias]

unitarian and trinitarian don’t make you Christian in the new covenant church

correct faith revealed by Christ including the trinity is one part also three others including
Faith and Baptism

RCC or bust.

 

[theefaith]

So Shouldn't we be saying "come out of her my people", instead of proselytizing for the Apostate church? (Revelation 18:4)

You confuse the Vatican with the one true church founded by christ

 

[Matthias]

You confuse the Vatican with the one true church founded by christ

Translation: Come out of her [the Vatican] my [Catholic] people.

Given what you believe, is that a fair translation?

 

[David H.]

You confuse the Vatican with the one true church founded by christ

not at all, the apostate church (Mother) has her daughters as well which is why I am non-denominational. The True church is the People, the Lambs of God and no construct of men...
Matthew 16:18

 

[theefaith]

Translation: Come out of her [the Vatican] my [Catholic] people.

Given what you believe, is that a fair translation?

At least visit the museums

 

[theefaith]

And the Sistine chapel

 

[Matthias]

At least visit the museums

And the Sistine chapel

Sounds affirmative to me.

 

[theefaith]

not at all, the apostate church (Mother) has her daughters as well which is why I am non-denominational. The True church is the People, the Lambs of God and no construct of men...
Matthew 16:18

those sects are the tradition of men!

only Christ has authority to found the church

on Peter and the apostles and their successors

no apostles? no new covenant church! No salvation!

non-denominational
Are lead by men not apostles sent by Christ and his church

Hierarchical authority!

Jurisdictional authority:

Hierarchical authority:


Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Apostolic authority!
God sent them apostles to teach them the truth revealed by Christ!
Philip an apostle acts 8
Peter an apostle acts 10

Jn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.


There is a big difference between the people, and the priesthood of Christ and the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

The apostles have authority to forgive sins. Jn 20:23

Apostles are the light of the world!
The church is an extension of Christ in time and space. Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

God established order and peace and knowledge of truth in a hierarchical authority of Peter and the apostles!

There is a hierarchical authority in all that God has ordained!

The angelic kingdom!
The civil kingdom!
The church kingdom!
The family!

All are ordered with hierarchical and jurisdictional authority!






Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Initiation into the new covenant must be ministered to you by the apostles!


There CANNOT be both!

Either Apostolic tradition in hierarchical authority which establishes truth, peace and order!

Or

Spiritual anarchy producing chaos and disorder!

 

[theefaith]

Sounds affirmative to me.

have a great weekend!

 

[Brakelite]

then it’s just accusations!

While I didn't say the church taught idolatry, I did suggest the church practises idolatry. It would be self defeating for the church to teach idolatry.

Worship requires
Adoration
Propitiatory reparation
Thanksgiving
And petitions

As mediatrix and co-redemptrix, explain why that is not propitiatory reparation.
Explain how bowing down and kissing a statue and holding that statue high in processions and adorned with garlands of flowers and gold gilt is not adoration.
Thanksgiving and petitions? Not offered to Mary? Please.

 

[David H.]

those sects are the tradition of men!

only Christ has authority to found the church

on Peter and the apostles and their successors

no apostles? no new covenant church! No salvation!

non-denominational
Are lead by men not apostles sent by Christ and his church

Hierarchical authority!

Jurisdictional authority:

Hierarchical authority:


Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Apostolic authority!
God sent them apostles to teach them the truth revealed by Christ!
Philip an apostle acts 8
Peter an apostle acts 10

Jn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.


There is a big difference between the people, and the priesthood of Christ and the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

The apostles have authority to forgive sins. Jn 20:23

Apostles are the light of the world!
The church is an extension of Christ in time and space. Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

God established order and peace and knowledge of truth in a hierarchical authority of Peter and the apostles!

There is a hierarchical authority in all that God has ordained!

The angelic kingdom!
The civil kingdom!
The church kingdom!
The family!

All are ordered with hierarchical and jurisdictional authority!






Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Initiation into the new covenant must be ministered to you by the apostles!


There CANNOT be both!

Either Apostolic tradition in hierarchical authority which establishes truth, peace and order!

Or

Spiritual anarchy producing chaos and disorder!

Not when Christ is the head of the Body, the all in all of the church of the saints. What your view lacks is an understanding of what the church of the saints means.... Again, I am not talking LDS, But those having the unction of the Holy Ghost who can say Jesus is the LORD.... (1 Corinthians 12:3). It is a lack of vision of where the true church is now that we are in the time of apostasy, It is not in a building or in a denomination, But in the foundation laid by the apostles, and saints that followed them and is continually growing and maturing to the fulness of Christ. Thus I do not deny the apostolic foundation in the least as you accuse "protestants" of doing, I/We of the true church are still being built up by the Holy Ghost, Living stones of the Holy Temple which is not at the vatican but in heaven and is seen there at the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:18-19).

I Pray one day you will see this and come out of her.
God Bless.

 

[Cassandra]

@theefaith the Pope said this:

“God does not want us to be slaves, but sons and daughters,” Francis said. “He does not want to make decisions for us, or oppress us with a sacral power, exercised in a world governed by religious laws. No! He created us to be free, and he asks us to be mature and responsible persons in life and in society.”

God does not want 'a world governed by religious laws,' pope tells Canadian clergy

How does that fare with you?Or are you more like Torquemada?

 

[Matthias]

@theefaith the Pope said this:

“God does not want us to be slaves, but sons and daughters,” Francis said. “He does not want to make decisions for us, or oppress us with a sacral power, exercised in a world governed by religious laws. No! He created us to be free, and he asks us to be mature and responsible persons in life and in society.”

God does not want 'a world governed by religious laws,' pope tells Canadian clergy

How does that fare with you?Or are you more like Torquemada?

I can never think about Torquemada without thinking of Mel Brooks mocking him.

- Hey, Torquemada, whaddaya say?
I just got back from the auto-da-fe.
Auto-da-fe, what’s an auto-da-fe?
It’s what you oughtn’t to do but you do anyway.

(Mel Brooks, The Inquisition)

 

[theefaith]

While I didn't say the church taught idolatry, I did suggest the church practises idolatry. It would be self defeating for the church to teach idolatry.


As mediatrix and co-redemptrix, explain why that is not propitiatory reparation.
Explain how bowing down and kissing a statue and holding that statue high in processions and adorned with garlands of flowers and gold gilt is not adoration.
Thanksgiving and petitions? Not offered to Mary? Please.

I was defining worship
All those things together are required
To Offer thanksgiving alone is not worship
Anyone in the communion of saints can pray and intercede for one another

worship requires intent and consent

when you kneel at you bed to offer you’re Protestant prayers to God are you worshiping the bed?

 

[theefaith]

you could be right on that one!

some start with pius 11 and the signing of the Lateran treaty

or Francis may be the false prophet

who knows

but it’s the age of deception

and a counterfeit church in apostasy would be a deception of biblical proportions!

there is no rapture!

the church is here until Christ returns Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:8
Matt 24:29-31

jp1 only was pope 30 days
Maybe he is the short time ones

 

[theefaith]

Not when Christ is the head of the Body, the all in all of the church of the saints. What your view lacks is an understanding of what the church of the saints means.... Again, I am not talking LDS, But those having the unction of the Holy Ghost who can say Jesus is the LORD.... (1 Corinthians 12:3). It is a lack of vision of where the true church is now that we are in the time of apostasy, It is not in a building or in a denomination, But in the foundation laid by the apostles, and saints that followed them and is continually growing and maturing to the fulness of Christ. Thus I do not deny the apostolic foundation in the least as you accuse "protestants" of doing, I/We of the true church are still being built up by the Holy Ghost, Living stones of the Holy Temple which is not at the vatican but in heaven and is seen there at the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:18-19).

I Pray one day you will see this and come out of her.
God Bless.

Who are you’re apostles today?

 

[David H.]

Who are you’re apostles today?

The succession of Saints who are full of the Holy Ghost is the apostolic authority the church of the saints follows, some, many in fact were of the Catholic variety such as Augustine, Jerome and the early church Fathers. What they are not, is Nicolaitans glorifying their office and themselves over the laity. The saints are the least in the church, the servants, the ones who minister, which means to serve, by their exemplary lives. They are not the self-exulted ones, they do not want to be prayed to and venerated instead they would rather all glory goes to God. The true church has always been underground, in the catacombs, Protestant of the institutionalized man made construct most people associate with church. The Woman (religion), gives birth to the saints, and the saints remain in the woman to minister and create more saints until the time when they are to "come out of her my people" in the wilderness, that is when the Woman becomes the harlot of Revelation 17 after a time in the wilderness. arguably we are living in that time now.... If the Holy Ghost has given you unction you will understand what I am saying here. If you are going to write (Or rather copy) a treatice from the Catholic apologetics, do not bother.