Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

[Rich R]

John 20 was after He died.

I stand corrected on that. You're right. Thanks for the heads up. I got sloppy.

So what did happen on the day of Pentecost? Did they get anything they didn't have before?

 

[Rich R]

Are you comparing me to the devil???

Is that all you got out of that? I didn't call you anything. I just said that telling someone to stop preaching is something the devil would say. When compared to the verse I quoted about God telling us in no uncertain terms to preach, is that true or false?

 

[Rich R]

I see it the way Scripture does. It is a manifestation ( or visible outworking of the inner spierit) and it is a gift. We have rfeached an end herew. Have the last word if you wish.

There is only one way to see scripture-- as it is written. why you refuse to see Paul calling it a manifestation AND a gift is beyond me.

I don't see it the way you do because Scripture specifically calls it a gift as well as a manifestation. The fact that you reject calling it a specific gift of the Spirit ( and not the generic all thigns are gifts) means you are not reading scripture properly.

You should be able to see at least a half dozen times where I said everything we have from God is a gift, including the nine manifestations, of which tongues is one. Are you that prejudiced against me that you insist otherwise? Why not read what I say as it is written? Do you read the scriptures as written in the same prejudiced way? I hope not.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I stand corrected on that. You're right. Thanks for the heads up. I got sloppy.

So what did happen on the day of Pentecost? Did they get anything they didn't have before?

Sure did - just like Jesus who was indwelled with the Spirit from birth - received empowering for ministry at His baptism.

 

[Jim B]

I stand corrected on that. You're right. Thanks for the heads up. I got sloppy.

So what did happen on the day of Pentecost? Did they get anything they didn't have before?

yes: the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rich R]

Whenever a gift is USED it becomes the manifestation of that gift. Without the gift there cannot be any manifestation. So Rich R is not only out to lunch but he also refuses to admit that he is manufacturing his own theology, just like he rejects the deity of Christ. When someone refuses to believe that Jesus is God, anything else he or she says is bound to be foolish.

How many times have I said the gift is holy spirit of which there are nine different ways it can be manifested? You seriously haven't seen that?

I reject the deity of Christ? I guess you also haven't seen where I in fact have said more than once that Jesus was divine. I think that would mean I believe in his deity. But I also pointed out that all Christians have the divine nature.

2 Pet 1:4,

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
​

Unless all Christians are God, having a divine nature does not make one God. I firmly believe Jesus is the son of God, which is exactly what the scriptures say about 35 times (as opposed to the 0 times he is called the fictitious "God the Son"). I also believe that a son can not be his own father.

 

[Jim B]

Is that all you got out of that? I didn't call you anything. I just said that telling someone to stop preaching is something the devil would say. When compared to the verse I quoted about God telling us in no uncertain terms to preach, is that true or false?

You wrote in response to my post, "That sounds exactly like something the devil would say." That is comparing me to Satan!

I will not discuss this with you until you stop the personal attacks.

"

 

[Jim B]

How many times have I said the gift is holy spirit of which there are nine different ways it can be manifested? You seriously haven't seen that?

I reject the deity of Christ? I guess you also haven't seen where I in fact have said more than once that Jesus was divine. I think that would mean I believe in his deity. But I also pointed out that all Christians have the divine nature.

2 Pet 1:4,

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
​

Unless all Christians are God, having a divine nature does not make one God. I firmly believe Jesus is the son of God, which is exactly what the scriptures say about 35 times (as opposed to the 0 times he is called the fictitious "God the Son"). I also believe that a son can not be his own father.

Then clearly you don't understand Scripture!

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 10:30, "The Father and I are one.”

 

[Rich R]

Sure did - just like Jesus who was indwelled with the Spirit from birth - received empowering for ministry at His baptism.

So until Jesus was baptized, he had holy spirit but no power? I'm just asking. Not saying you're wrong.

Acts 1:8,

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
​

If it is correct that Jesus had already given them holy spirit, then he must have had a short memory.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There were no born again Jews in the Gospels.

True until John 20, which is about after He rose again. That is part of the gospels. But all of Jesus' teachings were about the New Covenant.

If there were, why did Jesus bother to die? Apparently his death and resurrection was not necessary to get saved if folks could get saved before he died.

It is like writing a will, but it not being inherited until after His death. But the gospels also shows His resurrection, so what you said is mute.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So God was wrong about nobody knowing the secret before Paul? Daniel knew it way before Paul knew it? These ideas come from not understanding the different people to whom God spoke as well as when He spoke. Different people and different times. Do you read and answer your neighbor's mail?

It is important to keep Jew, Gentile, and Church straight. It is also important to keep the different administrations straight. The Bible gets quite confusing if we take for ourselves in this age of grace something God told Israel in the law administration. It is also critical to have an understanding of the mystery God kept secret until He revealed it to Paul.

Daniel only knew about the prophecies to Israel. The unknown mystery was that God would let the Gentiles come and be a part of 'spiritual' Israel. And some national Jews would not. Peter was the first told about this when he had the vision of the sheet filled with unclean creatures.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@Jim B and @Rich R

Hey brothers! I love and respect you both, and don't like to see you two fighting.

 

[Jim B]

@Jim B and @Rich R

Hey brothers! I love and respect you both, and don't like to see you two fighting.

Rich R wrote in response to my post, "That sounds exactly like something the devil would say." That is comparing me to Satan! I don't take that kind of slander lightly!

 

[Rich R]

You wrote in response to my post, "That sounds exactly like something the devil would say." That is comparing me to Satan!

I will not discuss this with you until you stop the personal attacks.

I didn't compare you to the devil. I would never do that. People tell me all the time I'm going to burn in hell, die in my sins, or whatever, but I'd never say such a thing to a brother of sister. I simply pointed out what you said sounds like something the devil would say, and I firmly stand by that statement. I even gave you a scripture that gave God's diametrically opposed view on the matter.

As far as I'm concerned, you are a most wonderful son of God. For that reason I love you much in Christ. God knows the world needs more folks like you, folks who put their trust in God instead of the world. I hope that's clear.

 

[Jim B]

I didn't compare you to the devil. I would never do that. People tell me all the time I'm going to burn in hell, die in my sins, or whatever, but I'd never say such a thing to a brother of sister. I simply pointed out what you said sounds like something the devil would say, and I firmly stand by that statement. I even gave you a scripture that gave God's diametrically opposed view on the matter.

As far as I'm concerned, you are a most wonderful son of God. For that reason I love you much in Christ. God knows the world needs more folks like you, folks who put their trust in God instead of the world. I hope that's clear.

It's not clear, but thank you for your kind words. You should be more careful when you compare people to Satan. I forgive you, so let's move on.

 

[Rich R]

@Jim B and @Rich R

Hey brothers! I love and respect you both, and don't like to see you two fighting.

I'm not fighting anyone. Read my post #434 to Jim B. That's my sincere feeling about him and everybody else here, yourself very much included. I'm just trying to talk scriptures. Multiple times now I've begged people to stop the pointless personal attacks and stick with the scriptures, unfortunately with limited, if any, success.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So until Jesus was baptized, he had holy spirit but no power? I'm just asking. Not saying you're wrong.

Acts 1:8,

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
​

If it is correct that Jesus had already given them holy spirit, then he must have had a short memory.

The critical phrase in your quote is "is come upon you"

You recall how John the Baptist was told how to recognise the coming Messiah?

He was told to watch for the One upon whom the Spirit would come upon and remain upon. All others were touched by the Spirit but not permanently.

So the Apostles were indwelled in John 20 and empowered when the Spirit came upon them at Pentecost.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Rich R wrote in response to my post, "That sounds exactly like something the devil would say." That is comparing me to Satan! I don't take that kind of slander lightly!

Yes, Rich deserves a spanking for that. You do know I included him, not just you.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I'm not fighting anyone. Read my post #434 to Jim B. That's my sincere feeling about him and everybody else here, yourself very much included. I'm just trying to talk scriptures. Multiple times now I've begged people to stop the pointless personal attacks and stick with the scriptures, unfortunately with limited, if any, success.

Not everyone is taking the forums as a perfect opportunity to grow in the Spirit, and the fruit of the Spirit. Like self-control, brotherly kindness, and love. I'm nothing like the person I was when I first started posting on Christians sites. This is just one of many.

 

[Rich R]

It's not clear, but thank you for your kind words. You should be more careful when you compare people to Satan. I forgive you, so let's move on.

Thanks. But to try and clarify, in my mind I think what you said is something the devil would say. I don't see that at all as comparing you, the person, Jim B, to the devil. What you say and what you are, are two different things in my mind. I have little doubt that at times I slip up and say something the devil would say, but I sure don't think I'm the devil. I hope that helps clarify a bit. But if not, I'm glad you forgive me. Either way we both win.