"willfully sin". : Hebrews 10

[Michiah-Imla]

@Johann

What about:

“…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:20-22)

What about:

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29)

@Johann

What about:

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.” (2 Peter 2:20)

What about:

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)

 

[Behold]

@Johann

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

What about Cross denying Heretics who lyingly teach that verses in Hebrews written to Christ rejecting Jews, are written to born again believers.

What about these deceivers?
Are they really saved?
Where is the proof?
These Grace hating deceivers have no other reason to be on a christian forum than to try to ruin a believer's faith in Christ.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

What about Cross denying Heretics who lyingly teach that verses in Hebrews written to Christ rejecting Jews, are written to born again believers.

What about scripture denying heretics that lie and say that some scripture wasn’t written to them?

IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION TO:

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

 

[Behold]

What about scripture denying heretics

Look in the mirror.
You are preaching to yourself again.

You believe a Christ Rejecting Hebrew, is a "born again Christian".
You've taught this LIE in hundreds of Posts, and you'll do it again. Michiah-Imla.
So, you can start there, and begin to figure out what is wrong with your theology.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You believe a Christ Rejecting Hebrew, is a "born again Christian".

No I don’t. But you tamper with this scripture with your red sectarian marker:

“For if we Christ rejectors sin wilfully after that we they have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins for them” (Hebrews 10:26)

You've taught this LIE in hundreds of Posts, and you'll do it again.

Look in the mirror…

 

[mailmandan]

Hi there @mailmandan..no longer part of the Berean Apologetics proboard forum?
I fully concur with your statement, well put.
This is now 2000 years after the resurrection of Christ Jesus and the modern Church and members still cannot agree on doctrinal doctrines, one, sinless perfection.
Shalom brother.

Thank you and I am still a part of the Berean Apologetics proboard forum.

 

[Johann]

@Johann

What about:

“…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:20-22)

What about:

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29)

@Johann

What about:

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.” (2 Peter 2:20)

What about:

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)

What about

1Ki 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captive unto the land of the enemy, far off or near;

What about

Ecc 7:20 Surely there is not a righteous man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper" (Prov. xxviii. 13), by distinguishing between the confession of a known and the confession of an unknown sin.

Very clear, confession of know, and unknown sin...

Glad you have mentioned we may quote ALL scriptures as the book of Hebrews were addressed to the Hebrew Christians and were constantly in danger of relapsing into Judaism.

As to the scriptures you have quoted


FORGIVENESS Deut. xxi. 8; Jer. xviii. 23; Ps. lxxviii. 38; : I Kings viii. 30 et seq.; Lev. iv. 20 et seq.; Dan. ix. 9; : Gen. l. 17; Ex. x. 17; I Sam. xv. 25, xxv. 28):
By: Executive Committee of the Editorial Board., Adolf Guttmacher
Forgiveness is one of the attributes ascribed to Yhwh: "to the Lord our God belong mercies and forgiveness" (Dan. ix. 9; comp. Ex. xxxiv. 6-7; Num. xiv. 18 et seq.; Ps. lxxxvi. 5; Jonah iv. 2). The condition essential to God's forgiveness of iniquity is, as the contexts of the passages indicated show, repentance on the part of the sinner for the offense committed. A further essential condition is the intention to avoid repetition of the offense. The fulfilment of these conditions restores the sinner to his right relation toward Yhwh. "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon" (Isa. lv. 7; comp. Amos v. 14; Jer. iii. 14 et seq.; Ezek. xviii. 21 et seq., xxxiii. 11-21; Hosea xiv. 1-4);

"For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee" (Ps. lxxxvi. 5; comp. lxxviii. 38).

I would think there is still hope for an Afrikaaner such as I.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Johann

Why are you seemingly a soldier for sin and an enemy of righteousness?

 

[Johann]

Thank you and I am still a part of the Berean Apologetics proboard forum.

That's great, I am being banned from every forum on the Internet.

 

[Johann]

@Johann

Why are you a soldier for sin and an enemy of righteousness?

Come again @Michiah-Imla?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Come again @Michiah-Imla?

I’m promoting ceasing from sin like Peter and the apostles did, and your fighting against me.

Why?

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2)

 

[Johann]

I’m promoting ceasing from sin like Peter and the apostles did, and your fighting against me.

Why?

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2)

Let's be realistic, there are what I would call "grey" verses like 1Pet 4:1-2...and there are verses that DO say this...


1Co_6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Any fornicators here?

1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not......another verse that would say sinless perfection...


Rom_6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom_6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The "grey" verses


Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom_7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom_7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom_7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom_7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.


1Co_6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.


1Co_8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

Are we sinning against the brethren?

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we do not have any sin, we are deceiving ourselves and we’re not being truthful to ourselves.

Either we are lying, or making God a liar, here John CLEARLY states...IF we say...that we do not have ANY sin....

1Jn_5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Php_3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

For every verse you quote, I can quote you three that says we CAN still sin
Question
Is the flesh "reborn?"

 

[Michiah-Imla]

For every verse you quote, I can quote you three that says we CAN still sin

Sure, we “CAN” still sin if we’re willing to…

But the consequences are severe:

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29)

 

[Johann]

Sure, we “CAN” still sin if we’re willing to…

But the consequences are severe:

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29)

...but no reply to the other verses..? The minute I would suggest that Hebrews was written for the Jewish Christians you would brand me as a heretic, not so brother?
Now, what do we do with the scriptures that says otherwise?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The minute I would suggest that Hebrews was written for the Jewish Christians you would brand me as a heretic, not so brother?

Yes, because it’s heresy.

Don’t do that brother.

“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Romans 6:1-2)

How @Johann ?

How?

 

[Johann]

Yes, because it’s heresy.

Don’t do that brother.

“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Romans 6:1-2)

How @Johann ?

How?

Is our flesh reborn brother?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Is our flesh reborn brother?

No.

But you need to reckon it as dead with no overpowering influence over you any more.

“For sin shall not have dominion over you…” (Romans 6:14)

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Romans 6:6-7)

“…reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin… Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:11-12)

 

[Johann]

What about Cross denying Heretics who lyingly teach that verses in Hebrews written to Christ rejecting Jews, are written to born again believers.

What about these deceivers?
Are they really saved?
Where is the proof?
These Grace hating deceivers have no other reason to be on a christian forum than to try to ruin a believer's faith in Christ.

I can turn around and ask you the same question brother


1Pe_3:15 Instead, exalt [Or set apart] the Messiah” [Or Christ; cf. Isa 8:12] as Lord in your lives. [Lit. hearts] Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you to explain the hope you have.
1Pe 3:16 But do this [The Gk. lacks do this] gently and respectfully, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak evil of your good conduct in the Messiah [Or Christ] will be ashamed of slandering you.

1Jn_3:3 And everyone who has this hope based on him keeps himself pure, just as the Messiah [Lit. as he] is pure.

To use the term "heretic" is very strong, coming from you as I am sure no one wants to die as a martyr for the cause of being a heretic.
I would suggest that the trying of the spirits would suffice.


αἱρετικός
aihretikos
hahee-ret-ee-kos’
From the same as G140; a schismatic. (“heretic” is the Greek word itself.): - heretic [the Greekord itself].


Nikolaos
nik-ol’-ah-os
From G3534 and G2004; victorious over the people; Nicolaus, a heretic: - Nicolaus.

 

[Behold]

Reader.... when you faith is correct, it will be very obvious to you that Jesus who saved you, keeps you saved.
Jesus..who saved you.......Keeps you saved.
God ... who saved you...KEEPS YOU SAVED.
But when you are deceived, you will fight that Truth and you will try to deny that Truth, and you will try to REPLACE that TRUTH with your "self saving LIST of "do's and don't do's, that you teach and believe" are how YOU KEEP YOURSELF SAVED.

When your faith is deceived, or if you are religious and not born again, then you will try to earn your way into heaven, or you will try to keep yourself saved.
And this person, in both cases....theologically, is in the dark..."mind blinded".
This is why they only use a bible to try to prove to themselves they can go to hell if they dont DO enough to stay out.
These deceived people will hunt for verses that they believe teach them that their salvation is only as good as their behavior, and that carnal minded reasoning : is ANTI-CROSS and Anti GRACE... and they will try to deceive you by TWISTING verses that are not directed at the born again.

For example : Hebrews Chapters 6 and 10.

These verse are written exposing Christ Rejecting HEBREWS.
So, if you are one of those then Hebrews chapter 6.... and chapter 10 vs 26 ...
AND the last 7 verses in Acts 28 are written to YOU.
If you are not a Christ Rejecting JEW (Hebrew) then do not believe heretics who try to use those verses to deceive you out of your faith in Christ.

 

[Johann]

No.

But you need to reckon it as dead with no overpowering influence over you any more.

“For sin shall not have dominion over you…” (Romans 6:14)

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Romans 6:6-7)

“…reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin… Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:11-12)

Correct, so what do we do with these verses?

Num_15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

Deu_19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.


1Ki_8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

2Ch_6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;


Pro_8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Pro_14:21 He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.


Pro_19:2 Also, that the soul be without knowledge, it is not good; and he that hasteth with his feet sinneth.

Pro_20:2 The fear of a king is as the roaring of a lion: whoso provoketh him to anger sinneth against his own soul.

Ecc_7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

1Co_6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Psa_119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Pro_20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?

Pro_24:9 The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men.

Mat_18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

The question still begs an answer.
Is it possible for the follower of the Way to commit an act of sin?

In the light of the holy scriptures, are we still angry?
Committing offences to the weaker brothers/sisters?
Lusting? Do we have any "Isaack's in our closets?"
Have we already obtained perfection in this life?
Do we say "Raca?" you fool, moron?
Becoming easily offended when not agreeing?