What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Matthias]

We don’t get the God-man from scripture. We get the God-man from Origen.

 

[Peterlag]

Would it offend you if I suggested that both of these men were the same man?

All I want is a verse or two that say why Jesus had to come as God. Nobody can give me a verse. Something is really wrong with this. If Jesus had to be God and come to the earth. Then how come the Bible does not tell us why that happened? Would not something like that be important?

 

[Peterlag]

@Michiah-Imla and @Aunty Jane both of you need a language lesson like Peterlag does, after all, you liked Peterlag's fool, anti-linguist post.

In language, there is (1) first person [I, me], (2) second person [you], and (3) third person [he, she, it].

The last two words of John 8:58 are first person, not third person. The words are "ego eimi" which translates using legal grammar into "I AM".

When you convey that John 8:58 would be correctly translated as "I am he", then your fool linguistics show in extreme clarity. YOU MIX IN THIRD PERSON WHERE THE THIRD PERSON IS NOT REPRESENTED IN THE SOURCE GREEK!

You all fight to stuff your words into Lord Jesus Christ's mouth to change the meaning away from the Truth that Jesus is everlasting - your words that are not there among Jesus' words; therefore, your words are your evil words that lead to everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46, John 8:24).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

All I want is a verse or two that say why Jesus had to come as God. Nobody can give me a verse. Something is really wrong with this. If Jesus had to be God and come to the earth. Then how come the Bible does not tell us why that happened? Would not something like that be important?

 

[Peterlag]

I’m big on definitions. I’ve read the soul = body + spirit.

However, verses like you reference call that into question. I don’t agree with @Peterlag on this matter. And I suspect Language Usage plays a roll in the confusion. Some people use soul and spirit interchangeably even though not precisely correct based on the above definition/equation.

There is only one immortal Spirit, the Spirit of God. He breathed his Spirit of Life into Adam and Eve, who propagate it on through the generations. That is, only temporally and bodily. When our body dies, our God given spirit returns to God.

Although we are made in the image of God, it does not mean we are God or fully make his Spirit our own spirit for our ego may push aside the spirit of God for our glory rather than his.

We cannot purge ourselves of self by our own will. We need Christ for that, God’s only mediator to us. We cannot help but be touched by God’s Spirit, since he made us. Again, being touched by, made in his image, does not mean we fully embrace his divine spirit.

Because of that rejection, the Spirit given to us returns to God - without Christ’s intervention. That’s my $0.02.

Hope that helps.

What about the dog? Body and soul? Or does the dog have the spirit of God?

 

[Peterlag]

It is not about making Jesus anything. Jesus is God.

The reason this is necessary is redemption (in Christ man is reconciled to God).

Do you have a verse for that? A verse saying God had to redeem us so that's why He came to the Earth? Because my Bible says a man had to do that?

 

[Peterlag]

It is not about making Jesus anything. Jesus is God.

The reason this is necessary is redemption (in Christ man is reconciled to God).

Right... it says in Christ man is reconciled. It does not say in God man is reconciled.

 

[Peterlag]

Can we MAKE Jesus anything?
Is that really within our power?

What benefit is it for us to MAKE the sun the center of the solar system? We should make the earth the center of the solar system. [except, of course, we have no power to make the sun or the earth the center of the solar system. We can only acknowledge the reality that the sun is the center of the solar system and Jesus is God … or we can play the fool and lie to ourselves.]

I can answer that. The Sun provides heat and light. Now can you answer what did God provide when he came to the Earth as a man?

 

[Wrangler]

through a Man whom He has appointed

Other versions do say a Man he has appointed. I have no problem with that, Jesus is a man. He is also divine.

Agreed. All prophets are divine. All angels are divine but Scripture informs us there is only one deity.

Who appointed and raised this divine man from the dead?

 

[RLT63]

Jesus is a man, but he’s no God-man. He’s more remarkable than that.

If I read the Bible with no foreknowledge of the Trinity I would conclude something similar to what was said in the discussion you posted of Origen. That Jesus was with God in the beginning and he is God and that he and God are One.

 

[Wrangler]

What about the dog? Body and soul? Or does the dog have the spirit of God?

If any creature has the faithfulness of god, it is our beloved dogs.

It would not be heaven for me if I were not re-united with Wranglers best friends.

 

[Wrangler]

If I read the Bible with no foreknowledge of the Trinity I would conclude something similar to what was said in the discussion you posted of Origen. That Jesus was with God in the beginning and he is God and that he and God are One.

I doubt it since Jesus died and god raised him from the dead. See Acts 17:31.

 

[marks]

1 Corinthians 15:41-49 KJV
41) There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43) It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The first Adam was made a living soul. The Last Adam was made a Life Giving Spirit.

We were like Adam, and we shall become like Jesus, and these are different. Adam was of the earth, the dirt. Jesus is the Lord from heaven.

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

More data on John 8:58

"I AM"

At the last super, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ. They said literally "Not I am, Lord" Matthew 26:22, 25. No one would say the disciples were trying to deny they were God because they were using the phrase "Not I am."

"I am" was a common way of designating oneself and it did not mean you were claiming to be God. The argument is made that because Jesus was "before" Abraham, Jesus must be God. Jesus figuratively existed in Abraham's time. He did not actually physically exist as a person, but rather he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man. In order for the Trinitarian argument that Jesus' "I am" statement in John 8:58 makes him God, his statement must be equivalent with God's "I am" statement in Exodus 3:14. The two statements are very different. The Greek phrase in John does mean "I am." The Hebrew phrase in Exodus means "to be" or "to become." God was saying "I will be what I will be."

 

[Peterlag]

If any creature has the faithfulness of god, it is our beloved dogs.

It would not be heaven for me if I were not re-united with Wranglers best friends.

Will our dog be in heaven with us?

 

[RLT63]

Agreed. All prophets are divine. All angels are divine but Scripture informs us there is only one deity.

Who appointed and raised this divine man from the dead?

Jesus said he had the power to do it.

 

[RLT63]

I doubt it since Jesus died and god raised him from the dead. See Acts 17:31.

Jesus said he had the power to do it.

 

[RLT63]

Agreed. All prophets are divine. All angels are divine but Scripture informs us there is only one deity.

Who appointed and raised this divine man from the dead?

John 2;19-21

 

[Peterlag]

If any creature has the faithfulness of god, it is our beloved dogs.

It would not be heaven for me if I were not re-united with Wranglers best friends.

Romans 8:8-9
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Who are those who are just in the flesh? Who are the ones that have not the spirit of Christ? Who are those who are none of his?

 

[marks]

He did not actually physically exist as a person, but rather he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man.

This is merely a denial of the meaning of Jesus' words.

"Before Abraham did exist, I do exist." But you say that's not so.

You should simply accept what He says.

I just realized you said, "physically exist". OK. YHWH was not "physical" until He incarnated.

Just the same, Jesus claimed to exist in the present tense before Abraham existed in the past tense, and again, we should simply accept the reality of what Jesus says is so.

Much love!

 

[RLT63]

I doubt it since Jesus died and god raised him from the dead. See Acts 17:31.

John 6:38-40 Where did Jesus come from? Who will raise us up?