What and when is the rapture Part 2

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,301
894
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
What did Paul teach us that the rapture is for? When it would occur?

There are two main teachings by Paul on the rapture,the first one is:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

The second example that is used is in 1st Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a lifegiving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true:

“Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

There is also no mention of a tribulation upon the earth or a persecution upon the saints after these events. Paul tells us that the rapture is only for changing of our bodies so we can enter heaven. Paul also says that this happens at the last trumpet. The last trumpet is the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15.The number seven means completeness to God, the completeness of Gods wrath is finished. Remember there was also a trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

Back to Revelation

Revelation 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

The voices say that Jesus will reign for ever and ever, not for just a 1000 years on the earth.

The 24 elders say in Revelation 11:18 say (at the seventh trumpet)

The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

The time has come for judging the dead and rewarding your servants and for destroying the earth. The judging the dead happens in Revelation 20:12 after Satan is defeated and cast into hell which is after the 1000 years.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

The destroying of the ones who destroyed the earth is in Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 22:12-13 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Jesus says here that when he comes he will reward us and give to each person according to what they have done. Jesus does this on the judgment day in Revelation chapter 20. Jesus also says that he is the beginning and the end, Jesus made the earth in the beginning and will come at the end. I believe that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s release right before he is cast into hell. The 1000 years is not what most people think. The bible does not say that the 1000 years is a time of peace or on the earth because Satan is bound from doing any evil. There is no mention Jesus being on the earth during the 1000 years in the book of Revelation. I believe that we are in the 1000 years now, and possibly in the time of Satan’ release. The 1000 year reign and the 1000 year binding start, and end, at different times in Revelation 20. The binding starts in verse 2 and ends in verse 7. The reign starts in verse 4 and ends in verse 11 & 12 verse 5 tells us this. The 1000 year reign ends after Satan is released defeated and cast into hell. Satan is only bound by deceiving the nations because of the message of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Summary

I believe that this study shows us that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s little season at the 7th trumpet right before Jesus destroys the earth. So lets spread the word now because there is no chance after the rapture as some people believe there is. They believe that the rapture will be the proof that Jesus is real and convince there unsaved friends who Jesus is.

Remember these verses Jesus said in Luke 16:21-27 about the dead rich man. “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if
someone rises from the dead.’”
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spiritual Israelite

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,420
1,754
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Think!! We raptured believers who are in heaven with Jesus return with Jesus to earth after the years of the great tribulation. Jude 1:14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronald D Milam

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,301
894
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Think!! We raptured believers who are in heaven with Jesus return with Jesus to earth after the years of the great tribulation. Jude 1:14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Im not disputing that we will be raptured but I believe right before Jesus second coming at the end of our world not before a so called seven year tribulation.
 

jeffweeder

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2007
999
795
113
60
South Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I agree Marty. Good thread.

Think!! We raptured believers who are in heaven with Jesus return with Jesus to earth after the years of the great tribulation. Jude 1:14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Yes Think.
The Lord comes with his Angels to execute judgment, as these verses show...,


Jude
14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, 15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”



Matt 16
Jesus said...,
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.


2Thess 1

This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.



Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;


We are clearly all still here to the very end, snatching who we can from the fiery wrath itself. Such is the grace of God


20 But you, beloved, build yourselves up on [the foundation of] your most holy faith [continually progress, rise like an edifice higher and higher], pray in the Holy Spirit, 21 and keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously and looking forward to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ [which will bring you] to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom.

24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling or falling into sin, and to present you unblemished [blameless and faultless] in the presence of His glory with triumphant joy and unspeakable delight, 25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,301
894
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I agree Marty. Good thread.



Yes Think.
The Lord comes with his Angels to execute judgment, as these verses show...,


Jude
14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, 15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”



Matt 16
Jesus said...,
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.


2Thess 1

This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.



Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;


We are clearly all still here to the very end, snatching who we can from the fiery wrath itself. Such is the grace of God


20 But you, beloved, build yourselves up on [the foundation of] your most holy faith [continually progress, rise like an edifice higher and higher], pray in the Holy Spirit, 21 and keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously and looking forward to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ [which will bring you] to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom.

24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling or falling into sin, and to present you unblemished [blameless and faultless] in the presence of His glory with triumphant joy and unspeakable delight, 25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Yes amen Jeff we are here until the end to spread the word.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

Marilyn C

Active Member
Mar 16, 2016
492
161
43
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Think!! We raptured believers who are in heaven with Jesus return with Jesus to earth after the years of the great tribulation. Jude 1:14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Hi GISMYS,

I agree that we, the Body of Christ are in heaven during the trib. However, a closer look at Jude reveals that the word is `holy ones.` And they can be saints but also angels. So, we need more scriptures to show which. Let`s see who Jesus says comes with Him.

`they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)


`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)


`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.` (Luke 9: 26)


`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)


So, it is the mighty holy angels that come with Jesus NOT the Body of Christ.

regards, Marilyn.
 

Marilyn C

Active Member
Mar 16, 2016
492
161
43
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What did Paul teach us that the rapture is for? When it would occur?

There are two main teachings by Paul on the rapture,the first one is:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

The second example that is used is in 1st Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a lifegiving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true:

“Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

There is also no mention of a tribulation upon the earth or a persecution upon the saints after these events. Paul tells us that the rapture is only for changing of our bodies so we can enter heaven. Paul also says that this happens at the last trumpet. The last trumpet is the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15.The number seven means completeness to God, the completeness of Gods wrath is finished. Remember there was also a trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

Back to Revelation

Revelation 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

The voices say that Jesus will reign for ever and ever, not for just a 1000 years on the earth.

The 24 elders say in Revelation 11:18 say (at the seventh trumpet)

The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

The time has come for judging the dead and rewarding your servants and for destroying the earth. The judging the dead happens in Revelation 20:12 after Satan is defeated and cast into hell which is after the 1000 years.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

The destroying of the ones who destroyed the earth is in Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 22:12-13 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Jesus says here that when he comes he will reward us and give to each person according to what they have done. Jesus does this on the judgment day in Revelation chapter 20. Jesus also says that he is the beginning and the end, Jesus made the earth in the beginning and will come at the end. I believe that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s release right before he is cast into hell. The 1000 years is not what most people think. The bible does not say that the 1000 years is a time of peace or on the earth because Satan is bound from doing any evil. There is no mention Jesus being on the earth during the 1000 years in the book of Revelation. I believe that we are in the 1000 years now, and possibly in the time of Satan’ release. The 1000 year reign and the 1000 year binding start, and end, at different times in Revelation 20. The binding starts in verse 2 and ends in verse 7. The reign starts in verse 4 and ends in verse 11 & 12 verse 5 tells us this. The 1000 year reign ends after Satan is released defeated and cast into hell. Satan is only bound by deceiving the nations because of the message of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Summary

I believe that this study shows us that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s little season at the 7th trumpet right before Jesus destroys the earth. So lets spread the word now because there is no chance after the rapture as some people believe there is. They believe that the rapture will be the proof that Jesus is real and convince there unsaved friends who Jesus is.

Remember these verses Jesus said in Luke 16:21-27 about the dead rich man. “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if
someone rises from the dead.’”

Hi Marty fox,

You seem to place the Body of Christ as the centre of God`s purposes instead of the Lord. God has purposes for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations. Get those muddled up and you then try and fit everything around US and what happens to US.

Marilyn.
 

Marilyn C

Active Member
Mar 16, 2016
492
161
43
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What did Paul teach us that the rapture is for? When it would occur?

There are two main teachings by Paul on the rapture,the first one is:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

The second example that is used is in 1st Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a lifegiving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true:

“Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

There is also no mention of a tribulation upon the earth or a persecution upon the saints after these events. Paul tells us that the rapture is only for changing of our bodies so we can enter heaven. Paul also says that this happens at the last trumpet.”

Yes there is! In 1 Thess. 5: 1 - 5 Paul tells the believers in Thessalonica that they are not in darkness that the Day of the LORD, (God Almighty in judgment) should overtake them. Then in 2 Thess. Paul goes on to give detail of what will happen in the Day of the Lord - man of sin, exalting himself in the Jewish Temple and Jesus destroying him. This clearly is the tribulation that Jesus spoke of from Dan. where there is an abomination in the holy temple, and for the Jews to flee. (Matt. 24: 15 - 22)

And the persecution will be to Israel and the nations who do not accept the A/C and worship his image and receive his mark to `buy and sell.`

The believers in the Body of Christ will have gone to glory to rule and reign with the Lord, bringing judgment upon the world system and (fallen) angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
What did Paul teach us that the rapture is for? When it would occur?

There are two main teachings by Paul on the rapture,the first one is:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

The second example that is used is in 1st Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a lifegiving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true:

“Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

There is also no mention of a tribulation upon the earth or a persecution upon the saints after these events. Paul tells us that the rapture is only for changing of our bodies so we can enter heaven. Paul also says that this happens at the last trumpet. The last trumpet is the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15.The number seven means completeness to God, the completeness of Gods wrath is finished. Remember there was also a trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

Back to Revelation

Revelation 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

The voices say that Jesus will reign for ever and ever, not for just a 1000 years on the earth.

The 24 elders say in Revelation 11:18 say (at the seventh trumpet)

The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

The time has come for judging the dead and rewarding your servants and for destroying the earth. The judging the dead happens in Revelation 20:12 after Satan is defeated and cast into hell which is after the 1000 years.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

The destroying of the ones who destroyed the earth is in Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 22:12-13 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Jesus says here that when he comes he will reward us and give to each person according to what they have done. Jesus does this on the judgment day in Revelation chapter 20. Jesus also says that he is the beginning and the end, Jesus made the earth in the beginning and will come at the end. I believe that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s release right before he is cast into hell. The 1000 years is not what most people think. The bible does not say that the 1000 years is a time of peace or on the earth because Satan is bound from doing any evil. There is no mention Jesus being on the earth during the 1000 years in the book of Revelation. I believe that we are in the 1000 years now, and possibly in the time of Satan’ release. The 1000 year reign and the 1000 year binding start, and end, at different times in Revelation 20. The binding starts in verse 2 and ends in verse 7. The reign starts in verse 4 and ends in verse 11 & 12 verse 5 tells us this. The 1000 year reign ends after Satan is released defeated and cast into hell. Satan is only bound by deceiving the nations because of the message of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Summary

I believe that this study shows us that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s little season at the 7th trumpet right before Jesus destroys the earth. So lets spread the word now because there is no chance after the rapture as some people believe there is. They believe that the rapture will be the proof that Jesus is real and convince there unsaved friends who Jesus is.

Remember these verses Jesus said in Luke 16:21-27 about the dead rich man. “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if
someone rises from the dead.’”
rapture from harpazo again, arg

anyway, best of luck in your quest for immortality ok
more steps on that ladder fwiw
 

Marilyn C

Active Member
Mar 16, 2016
492
161
43
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
It does not say Jewish temple. Let’s not add to scripture.

It says `temple of God,` and the Jewish temple is the ONLY one that God had built. Jesus confirms that it is the Jewish Temple by referring it to Daniel`s prophecy. (Matt. 24: 15, Dan. 11: 31, 12: 11)

And let`s not take away from scripture.
 

No Pre-TB

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2022
868
350
63
48
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Marty fox
It’s fine to give your opinion on the resurrection of the dead, but you’re missing a lot my friend. You should be able to locate and demonstrate:
1. The Archangel w/the trump of God
2. The last trumpet
3. The Christ descending with a shout
4. The marriage
5. The temple opened and closed
6. The flood
7. The last days
8. And the it’s location to name a few. All of these exist in Revelation.

Too many are stuck on an AoD and miss out.
 

No Pre-TB

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2022
868
350
63
48
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It says `temple of God,` and the Jewish temple is the ONLY one that God had built
Wrong! 2 Cor 6:16
for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marty fox

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,848
3,270
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi Marty fox,

You seem to place the Body of Christ as the centre of God`s purposes instead of the Lord. God has purposes for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations. Get those muddled up and you then try and fit everything around US and what happens to US.

Marilyn.
Marilyn, it appears you have things muddled up, God has no plan with a Nation called Israel

The Church are God's people, salvation through the shed blood on Calvary, the only covenant between God and man
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,760
2,420
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What did Paul teach us that the rapture is for? When it would occur?

There are two main teachings by Paul on the rapture,the first one is:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Corinthians 15:35-58

I agree that the Rapture is concerned with removing our mortality, and not concerned with early deliverance from Christian persecution by Antichrists. Christians have suffered Antichristian attacks from the beginning, and are still suffering the same.

I don't believe Satan is bound, nor that we are "in the Millennium." Satan's "little season" is at the end of a literal Millennium, in my theology.

However, we do agree that the Rapture of the Church is the ultimate deliverance from this corrupt world, a transition to immortality. It is not a premature escape from Antichristian persecution. Thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marty fox

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,301
894
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
@Marty fox
It’s fine to give your opinion on the resurrection of the dead, but you’re missing a lot my friend. You should be able to locate and demonstrate:
1. The Archangel w/the trump of God
2. The last trumpet
3. The Christ descending with a shout
4. The marriage
5. The temple opened and closed
6. The flood
7. The last days
8. And the it’s location to name a few. All of these exist in Revelation.

Too many are stuck on an AoD and miss out.

Sorry but I have no idea what you mean?
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,301
894
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Hi Marty fox,

You seem to place the Body of Christ as the centre of God`s purposes instead of the Lord. God has purposes for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations. Get those muddled up and you then try and fit everything around US and what happens to US.

Marilyn.

I actually don’t overall but the topic of this thread is the rapture so it is about the church
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,301
894
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Yes there is! In 1 Thess. 5: 1 - 5 Paul tells the believers in Thessalonica that they are not in darkness that the Day of the LORD, (God Almighty in judgment) should overtake them. Then in 2 Thess. Paul goes on to give detail of what will happen in the Day of the Lord - man of sin, exalting himself in the Jewish Temple and Jesus destroying him. This clearly is the tribulation that Jesus spoke of from Dan. where there is an abomination in the holy temple, and for the Jews to flee. (Matt. 24: 15 - 22)

And the persecution will be to Israel and the nations who do not accept the A/C and worship his image and receive his mark to `buy and sell.`

The believers in the Body of Christ will have gone to glory to rule and reign with the Lord, bringing judgment upon the world system and (fallen) angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

What I was meaning was that Paul doesn’t mention the tribulation happening after the rapture when he talks about the rapture.
 

No Pre-TB

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2022
868
350
63
48
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sorry but I have no idea what you mean?
Forgive me Marty. I meant to say, there was much more information you can use to build a solid framework on your 7th Trumpet theory that was lacking. Perhaps you were saving it for later or perhaps you weren’t aware. I’m unsure. For example, Rev 10. How does it fit in with your theory?
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,301
894
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Forgive me Marty. I meant to say, there was much more information you can use to build a solid framework on your 7th Trumpet theory that was lacking. Perhaps you were saving it for later or perhaps you weren’t aware. I’m unsure. For example, Rev 10. How does it fit in with your theory?

Thanks. The point of my post is the rapture not so much the 7th trumpet but I was showing that the rapture happens at the 7th trumpet at the end of our world.

Revelation chapter 10 is the 7th trumpet at the end of our world.