More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism

[Timtofly]

Jeremiah 30:3-7: “For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it. And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. "

Jeremiah 30:10-11: “Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.”

This was speaking of Babylon at the time. It reveals a consistent scriptural truth, the vessels God uses to chasten His people, He then casts away. It was only the last few books that were post-exile. As promised, Israel after chastisement was delivered. Babylon was utterly destroyed. They were only one of many nations over the centuries. Today in this New Testament era, those who oppose God's only nation the Church face the same outcome.

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 32:44: “Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.”

Jeremiah 51:1: “Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind; And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about. Against him that bendeth let the archer bend his bow, and against him that lifteth himself up in his brigandine: and spare ye not her young men; destroy ye utterly all her host. Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, and they that are thrust through in her streets. For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.”

If this was a legal case it would be a closed case. I believe it is absolutely water-tight. The lawyer would simply say: “I rest my case.” I don’t believe there is any question that an objective analyze of this book would come to any other conclusion than the fact that Jeremiah is describing Israel’s captivity in Babylon in his day. There is no mention (or context) of end-times in the prophet’s writings on this matter. Quite the opposite.

The day of trouble that is being highlighted happened long ago in the old covenant period. It does not relate to some supposed future period after Christ returns and saves Israel. Whoever is not saved when Jesus comes is immediately and eternally destroyed.

Why then is Babylon still being destroyed at the Second Coming, if you claim all of creation was restored already in the past at some point, where all 12 tribes returned to live in peace and safety after Jacob's trouble was all over? Did John not get the Amil memo that Babylon was already destroyed?

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation 19:11-16: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

This is the end!

In this narrative He comes as the Lord of glory and removes all evil with the power of His Word. He returns as a man of war to destroy all those left behind. Revelation 19:11 says, “in righteousness he doth judge and make war.” The imagery surrounding Christ in this reading is that of wrath and judgment. The nations have missed their day of opportunity like the wicked in previous judgments, now they must face their deserved recompense of destruction and eternal punishment. Christ comes in glory and power to pour out wrath, and we learn "His eyes were as a flame of fire.” Here we see the indignation that Christ has for these enemies of God upon the earth. Those that are left behind of the nations – without exception – are trampled into a lost eternity on this moment of time.

The solemn language relates to the wrath of God being poured out on those left behind at the coming of Christ. This proves that “the nations” will not survive the wrath that emanates from Christ. How can any nation survive this closing destruction? This is final justice being meted out of the lost.

Christ is seen pouring out His wrath without mixture upon the nations as He smites them in His fury with “a sharp sword” that comes “out of his mouth.” What is the result of this act? It shall “smite the nations” that have missed the catching away. This is what awaits the nations. They are going to be smitten. The word for “smite” in this text is the Greek word patasso, which means to strike with a weapon or to smite fatally. It means to smite down, cut down, to kill, slay.

Let us be clear: He is coming to smite down the nations, not corral them into some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted thousand-years age. It says that “he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” This is not a pretty sight. This is not loose talk by God. This is not something that the nations should look forward to. What awaits the nations that have rejected Christ is utter destruction and devastation. The nations left behind are totally destroyed. Christ destroys them by the very utterance of His mouth.

The two words interpreted “fierceness” and “wrath” here are thumos and orge which are regularly employed in the New Testament to mean ‘fierceness, indignation, wrath and vengeance’. The word orge carries the additional meaning of ‘violent passion’. Clearly the Lord is not happy with those left behind. Like those left behind in Noah’s day and Sodom they face an awful end, as they receive the reward of their rejection of Christ.

Verses 17-18 says, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

If you take this out of the Premil armory there is nothing left. The whole Premil doctrine hangs upon a thin frayed thread. It enjoys no other support in Scripture. It solely and exclusively depends on the correlation and chronology of the Rev 19-20, which clearly doesn't exist.

You are adding the words "the end" into the text. Did you notice that John wrote not to do that? The return at that point is the start of the Day of the Lord. Otherwise, the Day of the Lord would have started back in Revelation 11, when the 7th Trumpet stopped sounding. Revelation 13 interrupted the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. Just like Daniel claimed in Daniel 9:27.

 

[Timtofly]

The ruling over ("shepherding" in the Greek) that occurs when Jesus comes is simply the final judgement of the nations. We share in that. There is nowhere in Scripture that teaches that Jesus will rule in a future millennium over the wicked for a thousand years. The fact is: there are no wicked left to rule over. All flesh is destroyed in Revelation 19 (as in every other OT and NT second coming passage).

The reality is, Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recaps pertaining to the intra-Advent period.

If this is true, why do you keep claiming there are billions of goats and sinners. Your own arguments are contradictory. So which is it? Why do you keep arguing against your own argument? Your point does not negate the millennium. It is just an antagonistic "in your face" argumentative spirit.

 

[Timtofly]

John writes those beheaded souls he sees in heaven have LIVED and REIGNED during TIME which a thousand years is. It's written in past tense because they were alive in TIME, when they were martyred for their faith. But death had no power over them, because in life they had partaken of the first resurrection through Christ. For that reason John sees them ALIVE in heaven after they have physically died in TIME as living souls.

Then John writes all who have died (the rest of the dead) who had not lived and reigned with Christ in TIME (a thousand years) will not live again until TIME, (a thousand years) has expired. They will be physically resurrected when Christ comes the second time, when TIME for this age shall be no longer. They will be resurrected for judgment, and since in TIME (a thousand years) they had not partaken in the first resurrection, they must stand before God at the GWTJ.

Next we read that John writes also of those he calls holy and blessed because they too shall have part in the first resurrection while alive in TIME on this earth. They shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with Him in TIME (a thousand years). They are not numbered among the martyred saints John sees as living souls in heaven because during TIME they have not yet been born, or have not yet partaken of the first resurrection through Christ. That's why John speaks of them in future tense, and not past as with the martyred souls in heaven.

Finally John writes that when TIME (the thousand years) have expired Satan is loosed for a "little season" after TIME (the thousand years) given this age shall be no longer. After Satan gathers together his minions, the fire of God comes down from heaven and destroys them all. Believers who are still alive in TIME on this earth during Satan's little season will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air until the wrath of God is over. Then John writes of the GWTJ for "the DEAD", judged by what is written in the books and the book of life. Since their names are not written among the living, they are cast into the burning flames; the second death for them.

They have not even been beheaded yet.

How can it be ongoing?

Is Satan ruling on a throne in Jerusalem this minute?

 

[Timtofly]

After the thousand years for millennialists when Satan is loosed, he gathers Gog (antichrists) and Magog (antichristians) to surround the camp of the saints and the beloved city. If there is no sin during this imaginary literal ONE thousand years, how can there be antichrists and antichristians to gather together for battle? You do realize anti means against Christ, and Christians? If there is no sin in your millennium there could be none who are against Christ and against Christians! Your doctrine is pure myth, conceived, it would appear by those who've had a little too much happy juice!

How can Satan deceive deceived people?

 

[WPM]

How can Satan deceive deceived people?

What? Are you serious? Read what you are writing before you post. Notice how stupid this is. Open your eyes. Look around you. Turn on the news. Hello!

 

[Timtofly]

What? Are you serious? Read what you are writing before you post. Notice how stupid this is. Open your eyes. Look around you. Turn on the news. Hello!

That is why we are not in Satan’s little season as you Amil claim. People have been deceived since Adam and Eve.

 

[WPM]

That is why we are not in Satan’s little season as you Amil claim. People have been deceived since Adam and Eve.

You totally avoided the absurdity of your statement.

 

[WPM]

That is why we are not in Satan’s little season as you Amil claim. People have been deceived since Adam and Eve.

This has to be one of the most naive and ridiculous statements i have ever read on an online Bible forum:

How can Satan deceive deceived people?

 

[WPM]

How can Satan deceive deceived people?

Do you still believe that Satan cannot deceive deceived people?

 

[WPM]

That is why we are not in Satan’s little season as you Amil claim. People have been deceived since Adam and Eve.

Why is that? Because it doesn't agree with your invented take on Rev 20?

 

[Timtofly]

Do you still believe that Satan cannot deceive deceived people?

Do you do redundancy a lot?

You claim they are deceived in the Millennium. If they are already deceived, then to be decieved again, would be a reversal of the original deception.

The point is they knew the truth and lived it out evey day. Then they were deceived. That means they no longer knew the truth, but only accepted a lie from Satan.

Is your argument that God was deceiving those people during the Millennium, and Satan was telling them the truth, and that is why they turned against God?

 

[Timtofly]

Why is that? Because it doesn't agree with your invented take on Rev 20?

It is because Amil have no clue if Satan is loosed or not.

 

[WPM]

Do you do redundancy a lot?

You claim they are deceived in the Millennium. If they are already deceived, then to be deceived again, would be a reversal of the original deception.

Once again, as you do, you are ducking around the question: do you believe that Satan cannot deceive deceived people?

The point is they knew the truth and lived it out evey day. Then they were deceived. That means they no longer knew the truth, but only accepted a lie from Satan.

Where in Rev 20 does it say that "they (the billions of wicked in Gog and Magog) knew the truth and lived it out every day"?

Is your argument that God was deceiving those people during the Millennium, and Satan was telling them the truth, and that is why they turned against God?

What are you talking about? How do you come up with such questions?

 

[WPM]

It is because Amil have no clue if Satan is loosed or not.

That is why we are not in Satan’s little season as you Amil claim. People have been deceived since Adam and Eve.

Please explain. What does us being in Satan’s little season have anything to do with Adam and Eve? That is why we are not in Satan’s little season as you Amil claim. People have been deceived since Adam and Eve.

 

[Timtofly]

Once again, as you do, you are ducking around the question: do you believe that Satan cannot deceive deceived people?



Where in Rev 20 does it say that "they (the billions of wicked in Gog and Magog) knew the truth and lived it out every day"?



What are you talking about? How do you come up with such questions?

Because in order to be deceived, one must first know the truth. If one is already deceived, they don't need to be deceived.

You claim they were always deceived, thus Satan does not need to decieve them.

They are not wicked, nor sinners prior to being deceieved.

Satan told Eve that she was being deceived by God who was withholding information from them. Do you think that the pleasures of carnal sins is something being withheld from you, that as a redeemed person you should not take part in? Don't you think that Satan has anything to offer these people in the Millennium? If you claim these people are already sinners rejecting God, what more does Satan have to offer them, they are not already doing?

Where in Revelation 20 does it claim there are billions of wicked sinners? You project as much into Scripture. I am just pointing out there is no sin, because this Millennium is after the Second Coming.

What is the point of Satan being loosed if not to deceive people who are not decieved, but living perfect lives?

 

[Timtofly]

Please explain. What does us being in Satan’s little season have anything to do with Adam and Eve? That is why we are not in Satan’s little season as you Amil claim. People have been deceived since Adam and Eve.

We are not in Satan’s little season.

Because Eve was deceived by Satan. Those people at the end of the Millennium will be deceived the same way. Eve was not a wicked deceived person prior to being deceived by Satan.

 

[WPM]

Because in order to be deceived, one must first know the truth. If one is already deceived, they don't need to be deceived.

You claim they were always deceived, thus Satan does not need to decieve them.

They are not wicked, nor sinners prior to being deceieved.

Satan told Eve that she was being deceived by God who was withholding information from them. Do you think that the pleasures of carnal sins is something being withheld from you, that as a redeemed person you should not take part in? Don't you think that Satan has anything to offer these people in the Millennium? If you claim these people are already sinners rejecting God, what more does Satan have to offer them, they are not already doing?

Where in Revelation 20 does it claim there are billions of wicked sinners? You project as much into Scripture. I am just pointing out there is no sin, because this Millennium is after the Second Coming.

What is the point of Satan being loosed if not to deceive people who are not decieved, but living perfect lives?

Are you saying the billions of followers of Satan from Gog and Magog are born again Christians?

 

[WPM]

We are not in Satan’s little season.

Because Eve was deceived by Satan. Those people at the end of the Millennium will be deceived the same way. Eve was not a wicked deceived person prior to being deceived by Satan.

Correct. But all her posterity have been born in sin since. These followers of Satan are not sinless. They are like all of Adam's race since the Fall.

 

[Timtofly]

Are you saying the billions of followers of Satan from Gog and Magog are born again Christians?

No.