More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism

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Timtofly

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Stop avoiding the obvious. You have no Scripture to support your error. Please show us one Scripture that teaches that believers in "permanent incorruptible physical bodies" marry and procreate on the earth after the second coming?
What is your definition of a believer? These are the firstfruits of the Second Coming. The Millennium is not about Christians nor Christianity. It is about the rule on David's throne promised to David, that was never fulfilled. These people are no longer in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They don't believe. They just do what they were designed to do, and that is subdue the earth, per Genesis 1:28-29.

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."

Isaiah 65:22-24 declares offspring and life on earth like trees.

"They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear."

You cannot declare this as your eternity when you don't allow procreation at all in the future. The part about subduing the earth is to multiply and be fruitful. Not to spread sin throughout the earth, but to fill the earth with God's glory.
 

Timtofly

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LOL. Check mate! Game over!

Avoidance is your MO.

Do you consider people turning their backs on Christ, rejecting His commands, embracing Satan and then attacking the people of God to be disobedience?
I consider them to be dead. In death, in the LOF, does it matter at that point?

You claim they are sinners for hundreds of years, living in denial. I claim they are dead, before they can even disobey. They obviously needed Satan to deceive them. You assume and speculate to come to your conclusions.
 

WPM

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I consider them to be dead. In death, in the LOF, does it matter at that point?

You claim they are sinners for hundreds of years, living in denial. I claim they are dead, before they can even disobey. They obviously needed Satan to deceive them. You assume and speculate to come to your conclusions.

Who writes your script for you? This is delusional. How can they be dead when they are alive on earth and actively rebelling against God and the people of God? You have clearly swallowed a fairy tale.
 

Gottservant

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I think the OP is interesting.

It basically accords with Jesus' words "But will the Son of Man truly find faith, upon His return?" (from memory, the gospels).

Character can be hard to justify, from scripture alone - but you (the OP writer) exhort people to pray, which is good.
 

WPM

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I think the OP is interesting.

It basically accords with Jesus' words "But will the Son of Man truly find faith, upon His return?" (from memory, the gospels).

Character can be hard to justify, from scripture alone - but you (the OP writer) exhort people to pray, which is good.

Thanks so much!
 

Timtofly

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Who writes your script for you? This is delusional. How can they be dead when they are alive on earth and actively rebelling against God and the people of God? You have clearly swallowed a fairy tale.
They are consumed by fire. Are you saying the fire does not consume them?
 

WPM

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They are consumed by fire. Are you saying the fire does not consume them?

LOL. Of course not. It is the in-between that you deny. Are you denying that the wicked rise up as the sand of the sea at the end of the millennium and confederate together under the influence and control of Satan and surround the camp of the saints?
 

Timtofly

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LOL. Of course not. It is the in-between that you deny. Are you denying that the wicked rise up as the sand of the sea at the end of the millennium and confederate together under the influence and control of Satan and surround the camp of the saints?
That is not what Scripture states. That is your interpretation.

They are deceived to battle. But there was never a battle. They were consumed by fire before any battle happened.

You can call that my interpretation all you want. No where does it say the camp of the saints was destroyed, and God retaliated with fire. It states after their march across the breadth of the earth they were consumed by fire. They were dead sinners in the LOF, for thinking about doing battle. But no Scripture states there was a battle. That is your imagination. I already pointed out their thoughts were of sin, but sin is a direct violation of a law. What law states one cannot be deceived by Satan?

You call them wicked. That is adding to Scripture. They are deceived, but being deceived does not make you wicked. Doing direct disobedience against God makes one wicked.

You claim I deny a bunch of people march across the earth. I have always stated that fact. Why do you keep pointing out the number, and call them wicked sinners who lived a thousand years and then all of a sudden decided to act on their sin nature? They were not waiting for Satan to be released to get up the courage to rebel.

They had no clue what rebellion even was, until decieved by Satan. That is what being deceived entails: led to believe after living in a perfect state, there is a better choice if they listen to Satan. Do you not accept the corroboration of Genesis 3 how Satan works and his MO? You use that term a lot, and cannot even apply it to how Satan deceives perfect people, who are not sinners, not born in sin, with a sin nature, but still listen and follow Satan to their eternal destruction?

These people do not bring sin into the world, because God does not let them act out their deception. There is no battle, but they are consumed by fire before they actually sin. Marching across the earth is not a sin. Doing battle is the act of sin against God. Thinking about doing battle is not an act of sin. It is a thought of sin. These people are not thinking because they are sinners. They are thinking under the influence of Satan, who is the father of sin.

Even in Genesis 4, it does not say Cain was listening to Satan. In the NT we are told that Cain:

"Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."

So we know that God does not state listening to Satan is sin. But doing what Satan implies we do, by acting out our thoughts is what produces sin. Surely you are not going to say, Cain was the procreation of Satan and Eve, when you won't even allow procreation in the Millennium.

If the camp of the saints cannot have any offspring, how are there people spread over the whole earth to march against the original camp of the saints? You ask where they come from. They are humans born after 20 to 25 generations later, during the thousand years. They certainly are not Adam's dead corruptible flesh left over after sin has been removed at the Second Coming. You deny Scripture from Isaiah 65 to corroborate an implied point in Revelation 20, that after 1,000 years, humans have once again spread across the earth. What else do you think happens during a 1,000 year period on earth, nothing? You have Revelation so wrapped up in your own symbolic interpretation and imagined opinion, you refuse any physical interpretation. You deny Jesus even physically returns to this earth. You claim a NHNE before God is finished saving those in Adam's dead corruptible flesh in current reality. It is Amil who declares God kills 8 billion souls, instantly, and then sends most of them to the LOF.
 

WPM

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They are deceived, but being deceived does not make you wicked. Doing direct disobedience against God makes one wicked.

You claim I deny a bunch of people march across the earth. I have always stated that fact. Why do you keep pointing out the number, and call them wicked sinners who lived a thousand years and then all of a sudden decided to act on their sin nature? They were not waiting for Satan to be released to get up the courage to rebel.

They had no clue what rebellion even was, until decieved by Satan. That is what being deceived entails: led to believe after living in a perfect state, there is a better choice if they listen to Satan. Do you not accept the corroboration of Genesis 3 how Satan works and his MO? You use that term a lot, and cannot even apply it to how Satan deceives perfect people, who are not sinners, not born in sin, with a sin nature, but still listen and follow Satan to their eternal destruction?

These people do not bring sin into the world, because God does not let them act out their deception. There is no battle, but they are consumed by fire before they actually sin. Marching across the earth is not a sin. Doing battle is the act of sin against God. Thinking about doing battle is not an act of sin. It is a thought of sin. These people are not thinking because they are sinners. They are thinking under the influence of Satan, who is the father of sin.

Even in Genesis 4, it does not say Cain was listening to Satan. In the NT we are told that Cain:

"Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."

So we know that God does not state listening to Satan is sin. But doing what Satan implies we do, by acting out our thoughts is what produces sin. Surely you are not going to say, Cain was the procreation of Satan and Eve, when you won't even allow procreation in the Millennium.

If the camp of the saints cannot have any offspring, how are there people spread over the whole earth to march against the original camp of the saints? You ask where they come from. They are humans born after 20 to 25 generations later, during the thousand years. They certainly are not Adam's dead corruptible flesh left over after sin has been removed at the Second Coming. You deny Scripture from Isaiah 65 to corroborate an implied point in Revelation 20, that after 1,000 years, humans have once again spread across the earth. What else do you think happens during a 1,000 year period on earth, nothing? You have Revelation so wrapped up in your own symbolic interpretation and imagined opinion, you refuse any physical interpretation. You deny Jesus even physically returns to this earth. You claim a NHNE before God is finished saving those in Adam's dead corruptible flesh in current reality. It is Amil who declares God kills 8 billion souls, instantly, and then sends most of them to the LOF.

So deception in the heart of man is now not sin? That is ridiculous. This is what false teaching produces. You are writing your own bible - one that is devoid of truth and logic.

Jeremiah 17:9 states: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Deceitfulness is sin. It is wicked.

C H Spurgeon: “if you had no devil to tempt you, no enemies to fight you, and no world to ensnare you, you would still find in yourself evil enough to be a sore trouble to you, for ‘the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked’.”

Oba 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee,

Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Revelation 20:3, 7-10: "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season ... And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
 

Timtofly

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So deception in the heart of man is now not sin? That is ridiculous. This is what false teaching produces. You are writing your own bible - one that is devoid of truth and logic.

Jeremiah 17:9 states: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Deceitfulness is sin. It is wicked.

C H Spurgeon: “if you had no devil to tempt you, no enemies to fight you, and no world to ensnare you, you would still find in yourself evil enough to be a sore trouble to you, for ‘the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked’.”

Oba 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee,

Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Revelation 20:3, 7-10: "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season ... And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
You are still applying the here and now to a future millennium, you deny will even happen.

No one exists in Adam's dead corruptible flesh in the 1,000 year reign of Christ. You cannot use Adam's fallen condition as a metric to prove a future cannot exist. Yes, for the last 5993 years those verses describe the human condition. You have yet to offer proof that God has allowed sin to re-enter creation 1,000 years after it was totally removed.

Sin did not enter because Eve was deceived and decided to follow Satan. Sin entered because Adam disobeyed God. Being gathered to battle is not having an actual battle. Name one action that was in direct violation to God's direct commandment. What Scripture claims: Thou shalt not let Satan deceieve you! What Scripture claims: Thou shalt not march across the breadth of the earth!

It is Satan doing all the action. We already know that Satan is a liar and thief, and a being who goes against God. Those who follow Satan are consumed by fire for doing so. It still does not mean they were corrupt and sinners prior to being deceived by Satan. They were dead sinners in the LOF because they listened to Satan.
 

WPM

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You are still applying the here and now to a future millennium, you deny will even happen.

No one exists in Adam's dead corruptible flesh in the 1,000 year reign of Christ. You cannot use Adam's fallen condition as a metric to prove a future cannot exist. Yes, for the last 5993 years those verses describe the human condition. You have yet to offer proof that God has allowed sin to re-enter creation 1,000 years after it was totally removed.

Sin did not enter because Eve was deceived and decided to follow Satan. Sin entered because Adam disobeyed God. Being gathered to battle is not having an actual battle. Name one action that was in direct violation to God's direct commandment. What Scripture claims: Thou shalt not let Satan deceieve you! What Scripture claims: Thou shalt not march across the breadth of the earth!

It is Satan doing all the action. We already know that Satan is a liar and thief, and a being who goes against God. Those who follow Satan are consumed by fire for doing so. It still does not mean they were corrupt and sinners prior to being deceived by Satan. They were dead sinners in the LOF because they listened to Satan.

Isn't it interesting that no one else is promoting this nonsense - Premil, Amil or Postmil? That is because this is a fairy tale. You are on your own with this. You have invented your own imaginations and no one is buying into it.
 

Keraz

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Isn't it interesting that no one else is promoting this nonsense - Premil, Amil or Postmil? That is because this is a fairy tale. You are on your own with this. You have invented your own imaginations and no one is buying into it.
The nonsense being promoted here is the Amill theory.
One day, the Lord will commence the end times, with a dramatic event which will shake the world; it will never be the same again. 'Then; after all the things Prophesied from Revelation 7:1 to 19:10, have taken place, Jesus will Return and reign, as is clearly stated: for the next thousand years.
There will be no ungodly peoples left alive, so only the faithful Christian peoples will go into the Millennium. Those who remain....1 Thess 4:17
However they are only mortal humans, including the resurrected martyrs, Rev 20:4, and although most will live for much longer, Isaiah 65:20, all of the original people alive when Jesus Returns, will die and it will be their children and descendants who will be susceptible to Satans wiles when he is released at the end of the Millennium. Rev 20:7-8. They will be instantly cremated by God. Rev 20:9
Simple, logical and scripturally correct.
 

WPM

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The nonsense being promoted here is the Amill theory.
One day, the Lord will commence the end times, with a dramatic event which will shake the world; it will never be the same again. 'Then; after all the things Prophesied from Revelation 7:1 to 19:10, have taken place, Jesus will Return and reign, as is clearly stated: for the next thousand years.
There will be no ungodly peoples left alive, so only the faithful Christian peoples will go into the Millennium. Those who remain....1 Thess 4:17
However they are only mortal humans, including the resurrected martyrs, Rev 20:4, and although most will live for much longer, Isaiah 65:20, all of the original people alive when Jesus Returns, will die and it will be their children and descendants who will be susceptible to Satans wiles when he is released at the end of the Millennium. Rev 20:7-8. They will be instantly cremated by God. Rev 20:9
Simple, logical and scripturally correct.

Do you also believe the wicked followers of Gog and Magog are somehow sinless during a future millennium?
 
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WPM

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The nonsense being promoted here is the Amill theory.
One day, the Lord will commence the end times, with a dramatic event which will shake the world; it will never be the same again. 'Then; after all the things Prophesied from Revelation 7:1 to 19:10, have taken place, Jesus will Return and reign, as is clearly stated: for the next thousand years.
There will be no ungodly peoples left alive, so only the faithful Christian peoples will go into the Millennium. Those who remain....1 Thess 4:17
However they are only mortal humans, including the resurrected martyrs, Rev 20:4, and although most will live for much longer, Isaiah 65:20, all of the original people alive when Jesus Returns, will die and it will be their children and descendants who will be susceptible to Satans wiles when he is released at the end of the Millennium. Rev 20:7-8. They will be instantly cremated by God. Rev 20:9
Simple, logical and scripturally correct.
  1. But all the living redeemed are glorified (immortalized) and caught up to meet Christ when Jesus comes. How can they be left behind to procreate in a future millennium? This is deeply unbiblical.
  2. The Bible makes clear there is no marriage or procreation in the age to come.
  3. Where in Holy Writ does it teach that "all of the original people alive when Jesus Returns, will die and it will be their children and descendants who will be susceptible to Satan’s wiles when he is released at the end of the Millennium"?
 
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jeffweeder

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Jesus will Return and reign, as is clearly stated: for the next thousand years.
There will be no ungodly peoples left alive, so only the faithful Christian peoples will go into the Millennium.
Those who remain....1 Thess 4:17
However they are only mortal humans, including the resurrected martyrs, Rev 20:4, and although most will live for much longer, Isaiah 65:20, all of the original people alive when Jesus Returns, will die and it will be their children and descendants who will be susceptible to Satans wiles when he is released at the end of the Millennium. Rev 20:7-8. They will be instantly cremated by God. Rev 20:9
Simple, logical and scripturally correct.
That is absolute unscriptural nonsense and is so pointless. Who is the Lord reigning over?
The Lord never promised us we would die after he comes again. He never alluded to the children of our household being burned alive after we die. Do not faithful Christians teach a child the way they should go so they don't depart from it?


When we see the Lord come for his faithful people, we shall be like him in his glorious body- for we shall see him as he is. And so shall we be with the Lord forever.

Your post is a disgrace.
 
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Keraz

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Do you also believe the wicked followers of Gog and Magog are somehow sinless during a future millennium?
Gog/Magog is mentioned in Revelation 20:8, merely as a metaphor for a vast army.
It will be the descendants of the Christian survivors, who will apostatise when Satan is released after the Millennium is over.
But all the living redeemed are glorified (immortalized) and caught up to meet Christ when Jesus comes.
You are wrong about this. Nowhere is it said those who will be caught up and go into the Millennium with King Jesus; will receive immortality at that time. They will be 'caught up' by the angels who Jesus sends out to gathter His people to Him; in Jerusalem.
The Bible makes clear there is no marriage or procreation in the age to come.
The next age to come is the Millennium, THEN comes Eternity, where all who are worthy will become immortal, spiritual beings.
Where in Holy Writ does it teach that "all of the original people alive when Jesus Returns, will die and it will be their children and descendants who will be susceptible to Satan’s wiles when he is released at the end of the Millennium"?
The many Prophesies about the Millennium period, all make it clear that it will be a flesh and blood, mortal and physical existence, very similar to how it is now. Isaiah 65:18-21 describes it well, and Zechariah 14:16-21, Micah 4:1-5, +
The Lord never promised us we would die after he comes again.
Where is the Promise of immortality before the Book of Life is opened? Adam, Abraham, David, Lazarus, etc,- ALL wait in the grave for the final Judgment; Revelation 20:11-15, Daniel 7:9-10
When we see the Lord come for his faithful people, we shall be like him in his glorious body- for we shall see him as he is. And so shall we be with the Lord forever.
Your quote from 1 John 3:2, which you rudely didn't bother to give the reference for, does not say that anyone becomes immortal when Jesus Returns, just like Him in our beliefs and actions.
Your post is a disgrace.
Your post is a rant and rave because it challenges your beliefs. Which you totally fail to support with scriptural proofs.
 

jeffweeder

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Your quote from 1 John 3:2, which you rudely didn't bother to give the reference for, does not say that anyone becomes immortal when Jesus Returns, just like Him in our beliefs and actions.

This should make it clear to you.

1jn 2
2 Beloved, we are [even here and] now children of God, and it is not yet made clear what we will be [after His coming]. We know that when He comes and is revealed, we will [as His children] be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is [in all His glory].


Phill 3
20 But [we are different, because] our citizenship is in heaven. And from there we eagerly await [the coming of] the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who, by exerting that power which enables Him even to subject everything to Himself, will [not only] transform [but completely refashion] our earthly bodies so that they will be like His glorious resurrected body.



That does say immortality.

Your post is a rant and rave because it challenges your beliefs. Which you totally fail to support with scriptural proofs.

Proof enough for you?

Now it is your turn to provide us with scripture that clearly states we remain mortal when Jesus comes the second time.
You will obviously not find it as it will contradict the scripture I have just posted above ^.
 
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WPM

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Gog/Magog is mentioned in Revelation 20:8, merely as a metaphor for a vast army.
It will be the descendants of the Christian survivors, who will apostatise when Satan is released after the Millennium is over.

So, are they sinners?

You are wrong about this. Nowhere is it said those who will be caught up and go into the Millennium with King Jesus; will receive immortality at that time. They will be 'caught up' by the angels who Jesus sends out to gathter His people to Him; in Jerusalem.

Exactly. There is no future millennium. It began at the first resurrection with Jesus victory.

The next age to come is the Millennium, THEN comes Eternity, where all who are worthy will become immortal, spiritual beings.

The many Prophesies about the Millennium period, all make it clear that it will be a flesh and blood, mortal and physical existence, very similar to how it is now. Isaiah 65:18-21 describes it well, and Zechariah 14:16-21, Micah 4:1-5, +

This exposes the folly of Premil reasoning as much as anything. You use this imaginary millennium as a dumping ground for "last days" passages and NHNE passages. Zechariah 14:16-21 and Micah 4:1-5 to "the last days" and Isaiah 65:18-21 describes the NHNE. Your future millennium is never going to happen. You have zero corroboration for a future millennium.

Where is the Promise of immortality before the Book of Life is opened? Adam, Abraham, David, Lazarus, etc,- ALL wait in the grave for the final Judgment; Revelation 20:11-15, Daniel 7:9-10

Your quote from 1 John 3:2, which you rudely didn't bother to give the reference for, does not say that anyone becomes immortal when Jesus Returns, just like Him in our beliefs and actions.

Your post is a rant and rave because it challenges your beliefs. Which you totally fail to support with scriptural proofs.

Hello! The second coming ushers in immortality, perfection, incorruption and the opening of the Book of Life. It all happens when He comes. You are obviously struggling to justify what you have been taught.
 
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Keraz

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That does say immortality.
Yes; we who believe in Jesus have His Promise of Eternal life. John 3:16
But when exactly are we told that we will receive it?

Revelation 20:4-6 is a plainly stated scripture. It tells us that when Jesus Returns, He will bring the souls of the martyrs killed during the 42 month time of world Satanic control and will resurrect them. Clearly; this resurrection is not into immortality, as they may die again, although their second death will not harm their eventual receipt of immortality.
Which we know will happen at the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15 AFTER the Millennium.

So any belief of a general resurrection of Christians, or a change into immortality when Jesus Returns, is false teaching and is not what will happen.
All of mankind must wait for the final Judgment, when the Book of Life will be opened; THEN immortality will be given to those whose names are found in the Book of Life and Eternity will commence. Revelation 21:1-7
You have zero corroboration for a future millennium.
I have corroborated with many proofs; that there will be a thousand year reign of Jesus a King of Kings and Lord of Lords, when He Returns.
The problem is in your understanding.
It is illogical to think that Jesus will destroy the world He has come to reign over! SIX times, Revelation 20 mentions the thousand year period after Jesus Returns! To dismiss it, to spiritualize it, to make it mean something it doesn't, is serious error and confusion.
 

WPM

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I have corroborated with many proofs; that there will be a thousand year reign of Jesus a King of Kings and Lord of Lords, when He Returns.
The problem is in your understanding.
It is illogical to think that Jesus will destroy the world He has come to reign over! SIX times, Revelation 20 mentions the thousand year period after Jesus Returns! To dismiss it, to spiritualize it, to make it mean something it doesn't, is serious error and confusion.

I addressed your lack of corroboration above but you sidestepped it. That is what you must do. All you have here is your personal opinion of Revelation 20. Who cares if the symbolic reference to "a thousand" is mentioned 666 tines. It doesn't negate its symbolic meaning.

How long is the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes?"