What does it mean to be born again?

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Johann

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More dangerous spiritual nonsense from Episkopos.

1 "You are only seeing righteousness through indoctrinated eyes" -- this false teacher thinks that everyone else is deceived through "indoctrination". In other words most Christians are in a cult and have been brainwashed, but Guru Episkopos is in the rarified atmosphere of Mount Everest. This is BALONEY #1.

2. "ALL our claims to righteousness are filthy rags". Since this term ("filthy rags") applies only to those who seek to establish their own righteousness by themselves, apart from Christ, this is a lie of the devil. And this is BALONEY #2. God IMPUTES righteousness to the one who believes, and then the Holy Spirit enables Christians to be righteous. See Romans 4 and other Scriptures.

3.
"The truly righteous see themselves as mere sinners." This is lie #3, and BALONEY #3. God calls His children "saints" (holy ones) not sinners. So children of God are not sinners, but saints, kings and priests, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. Every time Paul opens an epistle he greets THE SAINTS which are in Christ Jesus.

4.
"A righteous person doesn't claim to be righteous." This is BALONEY #4. Paul consistently claimed to be righteous, because he was in fact righteous. So it would be dishonest for a righteous person not to claim to be righteous. In any event every genuine Christian can say " I am clothed with the righteousness of Christ because I have received him as my Lord and Savior".

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. (Rev 19:7,8) What is this "fine linen" other than the robe of the IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS of Christ on all the saints? Therefore all the children of God can say: I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. (Isa 61:10)

In view of all this Episkopos should retract all his foolish assertions, and get back on track. He needs to repent of his false doctrines.
More dunamis to you brother, keep preaching the good ol' gospel....

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.


Just one question.

We are the righteousness of God in Christ--are we AS kodesh as YHVH, or relatively, are we AS holy as God is, or are we reckoned as such?


Every time I ask this question I get various different interpretations.

J.
 
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Johann

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Paul was an actual apostle. And people are so deluded as to think they have what Paul had. Jesus said the way was difficult and narrow. That's why no one tries to misunderstand Jesus. They just avoid Him.
Incorrect.



1You are to imitate me, just as I imitate Christ. 2Now I commend you for remembering me in everything and for maintaining the traditions, just as I passed them on to you.…

We have what Paul had



1 Corinthians 4:16
Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

Philippians 3:17
Join one another in following my example, brothers, and carefully observe those who walk according to the pattern we set for you.

1 Thessalonians 1:6
And you became imitators of us and of the Lord when you welcomed the message with the joy of the Holy Spirit, in spite of your great suffering.

Mar_1:24; Luk_4:34, and according to the true reading in Joh_6:69, cf. Joh_10:36; he is called also ὁ ἅγιος παῖς τοῦ Θεοῦ, Act_4:30, and simply ὁ ἅγιος, 1Jn_2:20.
Just as the Israelites claimed for themselves the title οἱ ἅγιοι, because god selected them from the other nations to lead a life acceptable to him and rejoice in his favor and protection (Dan_7:18; Dan_7:22; 2Es_8:28), so this appellation is very often in the N. T. transferred to Christians, as those whom god has selected ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου (Joh_17:14; Joh_17:16), that under the influence of the Holy Spirit they may be rendered, through holiness, partakers of salvation in the kingdom of god: 1Pe_2:9 (Exo_19:6), cf. Exo_19:5; Act_9:13; Act_9:32; Act_9:41; Act_26:10; Rom_1:7; Rom_8:27;
 
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Enoch111

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Just one question.

We are the righteousness of God in Christ--are we AS kodesh as YHVH, or relatively, are we AS holy as God is, or are we reckoned as such?
We are reckoned -- or deemed -- to be as righteous as God. And there is plain Scripture to support that: Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned* to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned*? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. (Romans 4:9,10)

*Strong's Concordance
logizomai: to reckon, to consider
Original Word: λογίζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: logizomai
Phonetic Spelling: (log-id'-zom-ahee)
Definition: to reckon, to consider
Usage: I reckon, count, charge with; reason, decide, conclude; think, suppose.


Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3049: λογίζομαι
a. to take into account, to make account of: τί τίνι, Romans 4:3,(4); metaphorically, to pass to one's account, to impute (A. V. reckon): τί, 1 Corinthians 13:5; τίνι τί, 2 Timothy 4:16 (A. V. lay to one's charge); τίνι διακιοσυνην, ἁμαρτίαν, Romans 4:6,(8 (yet here L marginal reading T Tr WH text read οὗ)); τά παραπτώματα, 2 Corinthians 5:19; in imitation of the Hebrew לְ נֶחֱשַׁב, λογίζεται τί (or τίς) εἰς τί (equivalent to εἰς τό or ὥστε εἶναι τί), "a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i. e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight" (cf. Fritzsche on Romans, vol. i., p. 137; (cf. Winers Grammar, § 29, 3 Note a.; 228 (214); Buttmann, § 131, 7 Rem.)): Romans 2:26; Romans 9:8; εἰς οὐδέν, Acts 19:27; Isaiah 40:17; Daniel ((Theod. ὡς)) ; Wis. 3:17 Wis. 9:6; ἡ πίστις εἰς δικαιοσύνην, Romans 4:3, 5, 9-11, 22f, 24; Galatians 3:6; James 2:23; Genesis 15:6; Psalm 105:31 (); 1 Macc. 2:52


Thus the word "impute" is used for reckon or count. All the children of God have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them. This is the spiritual "fine linen, clean and white" without which no one can enter Heaven.
 

Johann

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Thus the word "impute" is used for reckon or count. All the children of God have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them. This is the spiritual "fine linen, clean and white" without which no one can enter Heaven.
I have Thayer's lexicon, the reckoning part/imputation...are we AS hagios/holy as God is? That's my question.

And it seems you can't answer?



λογίζομαι; imperfect ἐλογιζόμην; 1 aorist ἐλογισάμην; a deponent verb with 1 aorist passive ἐλογίσθην and 1 future passive λογισθήσομαι; in Biblical Greek also the present is used passively (in secular authors the present participle is once used so, in Herodotus 3, 95; (cf. Veitch, under the word; Winers Grammar, 259 (243); Buttmann, 52 (46))); (λόγος); the Sept. for çÈùÇÑá; (a favorite word with the apostle Paul, being used (exclusive of quotations) some 27 times in his Epistles, and only four times in the rest of the N. T.);

1. (rationes conferre) to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over; hence,
a. to take into account, to make account of: τί τίνι, Rom_4:3,(4); metaphorically, to pass to one’s account, to impute (A. V. reckon): τί, 1Co_13:5; τίνι τί, 2Ti_4:16 (A. V. lay to one’s charge); τίνι διακιοσυνην, ἁμαρτίαν, Rom_4:6,(8 (yet here L marginal reading T Tr WH text read οὗ)); τά παραπτώματα, 2Co_5:19; in imitation of the Hebrew ìÀ ðÆçÁùÇÑá, λογίζεται τί (or τίς) εἰς τί (equivalent to εἰς τό or ὥστε εἶναι τί), "a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i. e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight" (cf. Fritzsche on Romans, vol. i., p. 137; (cf. Winers Grammar, § 29, 3 Note a.; 228 (214); Buttmann, § 131, 7 Rem.)): Rom_2:26; Rom_9:8; εἰς οὐδέν, Act_19:27; Isa_40:17; Daniel ((Theod. ὡς)) ; Wis_3:17 Wis_9:6; ἡ πίστις εἰς δικαιοσύνην, Romans 4:3, 5, 9-11, 22f, 24; Gal_3:6; Jas_2:23; Gen_15:6; Psa_105:31 (); 1Ma_2:52.

b. equivalent to to number among, reckon with: τινα μετά τινων, Mar_15:28 (yet G T WH omit; Tr brackets the verse) and Luk_22:37, after Isa_53:12, where the Sept. ἐν τοῖς ἀνόμοις.
c. to reckon or account, and treat accordingly: τινα ὡς τί, Rom_8:36 from Psalm 43:23 (); cf. Buttmann, 151 (132); (Winer’s Grammar, 602 (560)); (Rom_6:11 followed by accusative with an infinitive, but G L omit; Tr brackets the infinitive; cf. Winer’s Grammar, 321 (302)).

2. (in animo rationes conferre) to reckon inwardly, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate (A. V. reason): πρός ἑαυτούς, one addressing himself to another, Mar_11:31 R G (πρός ἐμαυτόν, with myself, in my mind, Plato, Apology, p. 21 d.).
3. by reckoning up all the reasons to gather or infer; i. e., a. to consider, take account, weigh, meditate on: τί, a thing, with a view to obtaining it, Php_4:8; followed by ὅτι, Heb_11:19; (Joh_11:50 (Rec. διαλογίζεσθε)); τοῦτο followed by ὅτι, 2Co_10:11.

b. to suppose, deem, judge: absolutely, 1Co_13:11; ὡς λογίζομαι, 1Pe_5:12; τί, anything relative to the promotion of the gospel, 2Co_3:5; τί εἰς τινα (as respects one) ὑπέρ (τοῦ) ὁ etc. to think better of one than agrees with what etc. (`account of one above that which’ etc.), 2Co_12:6; followed by ὅτι, Rom_8:18; τοῦτο followed by ὅτι, Rom_2:3; 2Co_10:7; followed by an infinitive belonging to the subject, 2Co_11:5; followed by an accusative with an infinitive, Rom_3:28; Rom_14:14; Php_3:13 (cf. Winer’s Grammar, 321 (302)); τινα ὡς τινα, to hold (A. V. ’count’) one as, 2Co_10:2 (cf. Winer’s Grammar, 602 (560)); with a preparatory οὕτως preceding, 1Co_4:1.

c. to determine, purpose, decide (cf. American ’calculate’), followed by an infinitive (Euripides, Or. 555): 2Co_10:2. (Compare: ἀναλογίζομαι, διαλογίζομαι, παραλογίζομαι, συλλογίζομαι.)
Thayer's lexicon.
 
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Johann

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I have Thayer's lexicon, the reckoning part/imputation...are we AS hagios/holy as God is? That's my question.


λογίζομαι; imperfect ἐλογιζόμην; 1 aorist ἐλογισάμην; a deponent verb with 1 aorist passive ἐλογίσθην and 1 future passive λογισθήσομαι; in Biblical Greek also the present is used passively (in secular authors the present participle is once used so, in Herodotus 3, 95; (cf. Veitch, under the word; Winers Grammar, 259 (243); Buttmann, 52 (46))); (λόγος); the Sept. for çÈùÇÑá; (a favorite word with the apostle Paul, being used (exclusive of quotations) some 27 times in his Epistles, and only four times in the rest of the N. T.);

1. (rationes conferre) to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over; hence,
a. to take into account, to make account of: τί τίνι, Rom_4:3,(4); metaphorically, to pass to one’s account, to impute (A. V. reckon): τί, 1Co_13:5; τίνι τί, 2Ti_4:16 (A. V. lay to one’s charge); τίνι διακιοσυνην, ἁμαρτίαν, Rom_4:6,(8 (yet here L marginal reading T Tr WH text read οὗ)); τά παραπτώματα, 2Co_5:19; in imitation of the Hebrew ìÀ ðÆçÁùÇÑá, λογίζεται τί (or τίς) εἰς τί (equivalent to εἰς τό or ὥστε εἶναι τί), "a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i. e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight" (cf. Fritzsche on Romans, vol. i., p. 137; (cf. Winers Grammar, § 29, 3 Note a.; 228 (214); Buttmann, § 131, 7 Rem.)): Rom_2:26; Rom_9:8; εἰς οὐδέν, Act_19:27; Isa_40:17; Daniel ((Theod. ὡς)) ; Wis_3:17 Wis_9:6; ἡ πίστις εἰς δικαιοσύνην, Romans 4:3, 5, 9-11, 22f, 24; Gal_3:6; Jas_2:23; Gen_15:6; Psa_105:31 (); 1Ma_2:52.

b. equivalent to to number among, reckon with: τινα μετά τινων, Mar_15:28 (yet G T WH omit; Tr brackets the verse) and Luk_22:37, after Isa_53:12, where the Sept. ἐν τοῖς ἀνόμοις.
c. to reckon or account, and treat accordingly: τινα ὡς τί, Rom_8:36 from Psalm 43:23 (); cf. Buttmann, 151 (132); (Winer’s Grammar, 602 (560)); (Rom_6:11 followed by accusative with an infinitive, but G L omit; Tr brackets the infinitive; cf. Winer’s Grammar, 321 (302)).

2. (in animo rationes conferre) to reckon inwardly, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate (A. V. reason): πρός ἑαυτούς, one addressing himself to another, Mar_11:31 R G (πρός ἐμαυτόν, with myself, in my mind, Plato, Apology, p. 21 d.).
3. by reckoning up all the reasons to gather or infer; i. e., a. to consider, take account, weigh, meditate on: τί, a thing, with a view to obtaining it, Php_4:8; followed by ὅτι, Heb_11:19; (Joh_11:50 (Rec. διαλογίζεσθε)); τοῦτο followed by ὅτι, 2Co_10:11.

b. to suppose, deem, judge: absolutely, 1Co_13:11; ὡς λογίζομαι, 1Pe_5:12; τί, anything relative to the promotion of the gospel, 2Co_3:5; τί εἰς τινα (as respects one) ὑπέρ (τοῦ) ὁ etc. to think better of one than agrees with what etc. (`account of one above that which’ etc.), 2Co_12:6; followed by ὅτι, Rom_8:18; τοῦτο followed by ὅτι, Rom_2:3; 2Co_10:7; followed by an infinitive belonging to the subject, 2Co_11:5; followed by an accusative with an infinitive, Rom_3:28; Rom_14:14; Php_3:13 (cf. Winer’s Grammar, 321 (302)); τινα ὡς τινα, to hold (A. V. ’count’) one as, 2Co_10:2 (cf. Winer’s Grammar, 602 (560)); with a preparatory οὕτως preceding, 1Co_4:1.

c. to determine, purpose, decide (cf. American ’calculate’), followed by an infinitive (Euripides, Or. 555): 2Co_10:2. (Compare: ἀναλογίζομαι, διαλογίζομαι, παραλογίζομαι, συλλογίζομαι.)
Thayer's lexicon.
ἅγιος, , (from τό ἀγός religious awe, reverence; ἄζω, ἅζομαι, to venerate, revere, especially the gods, parents (Curtius, § 118)), rare in secular authors; very frequent in the sacred writings; in the Sept. for ÷ÈãåùÑ;

1. properly reverend, worthy of veneration: τό ὄνομα τοῦ Θεοῦ, Luk_1:49; god, on account of his incomparable majesty, Rev_4:8 (Isa_6:3, etc.), equivalent to ἔνδοξος. Hence, used:

a. of things which on account of some connection with god possess a certain distinction and claim to reverence, as places sacred to god which are not to be profaned, Act_7:33; τόπος ἅγιος the temple, Mat_24:15 (on which passage see βδέλυγμα, c.); Act_6:13; Act_21:28; the holy land or Palestine, 2Ma_1:29 2Ma_2:18; τό ἅγιον and τά ἅγια (Winer’s grammar, 177 (167)) the temple, Heb_9:1; Heb_9:24 (cf. Bleek on Heb. vol. ii. 2, p. 477f); specifically that part of the temple or tabernacle which is called ’the holy place’ (îÄ÷ÀãÈÌùÑ, Eze_37:28; Eze_45:18), Heb_9:2 (here Rec.st reads ἅγια); ἅγια ἁγίων (Winer’s grammar, 246 (231), cf. Exo_29:37; Exo_30:10, etc.) the most hallowed portion of the temple, ’the holy of holies,’ (Exo_26:33 (cf. Josephus, Antiquities 3, 6, 4)), Heb_9:3, in reference to which the simple τά ἅγια is also used: Heb_9:8; Heb_9:25; Heb_10:19; Heb_13:11; figuratively of heaven, Heb_8:2; Heb_9:8; Heb_9:12; Heb_10:19; ἅγια πόλις Jerusalem, on account of the temple there, Mat_4:5; Mat_27:53; Rev_11:2; Rev_21:2; Rev_22:19 (Isa_48:2; Neh_11:1; Neh_11:18 (Complutensian LXX), etc.); τό ὄρος τό ἅγιον, because Christ’s transfiguration occurred there, 2Pe_1:18; ἡ (Θεοῦ) ἅγια διαθήκη i. e. which is the more sacred because made by god himself, Luk_1:72; τό ἅγιον, that worshipful offspring of divine power, Luk_1:35; the blessing of the gospel, Mat_7:6; ἁγιωτάτῃ πίστις, faith (quae creditur i. e. the object of faith) which came from god and is therefore to be heeded most sacredly, Jud_1:20; in the same sense ἅγια ἐντολή, 2Pe_2:21; κλῆσις ἅγια, because it is the invitation of god and claims us as his, 2Ti_1:9; ἅγιαι γραφαί (τά βιβλία τά ἅγια, 1Ma_12:9), which came from god and contain his Words, Rom_1:2.
b. of persons whose services god employs; as for example, apostles, Eph_3:5; angels, 1Th_3:13; Mat_25:31 (Rec.); Rev_14:10; Jud_1:14; prophets, Act_3:21; Luk_1:70 (Wis_11:1); (οἱ) ἅγιοι (τοῦ) Θεοῦ ἄνθρωποι, 2Pe_1:21 (R g L Tr text); worthies of the O. T. accepted by god for their piety, Mat_27:52; 1Pe_3:5.
2. set apart for god, to be, as it were, exclusively his; followed by a genitive or a dative: τῷ κυρίῳ, Luk_2:23; τοῦ Θεοῦ (equivalent to ἐκλεκτός τοῦ Θεοῦ) of Christ, Mar_1:24; Luk_4:34, and according to the true reading in Joh_6:69, cf. Joh_10:36; he is called also ὁ ἅγιος παῖς τοῦ Θεοῦ, Act_4:30, and simply ὁ ἅγιος, 1Jn_2:20. Just as the Israelites claimed for themselves the title οἱ ἅγιοι, because god selected them from the other nations to lead a life acceptable to him and rejoice in his favor and protection (Dan_7:18; Dan_7:22; 2Es_8:28), so this appellation is very often in the N. T. transferred to Christians, as those whom god has selected ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου (Joh_17:14; Joh_17:16), that under the influence of the Holy Spirit they may be rendered, through holiness, partakers of salvation in the kingdom of god: 1Pe_2:9 (Exo_19:6), cf. Exo_19:5; Act_9:13; Act_9:32; Act_9:41; Act_26:10; Rom_1:7; Rom_8:27; Rom_12:13; Rom_16:15; 1Co_6:1-2; Php_4:21; Col_1:12; Heb_6:10; Jud_1:3; Rev_5:8, etc.; (cf. B. D. American edition under the word ).
3. of sacrifices and offerings; prepared for god with solemn rite, pure, clean (opposed to ἀκάθαρτος): 1Co_7:14 (cf. Eph_5:3); connected with ἄμωμος, Eph_1:4; Eph_5:27; Col_1:22; ἀπαρχή, Rom_11:16; θυσία, Rom_12:1. Hence,
4. in a moral sense, pure, sinless, upright, holy: 1Pe_1:16 (Lev_19:2; Lev_11:44); 1Co_7:34; δίκαιος καί ἅγιος, of John the Baptist, Mar_6:20; ἅγιος καί δίκαιος, of Christ, Act_3:14; distinctively of him, Rev_3:7; Rev_6:10; of god pre-eminently, 1Pe_1:15; Joh_17:11; ἅγιαι ἀναστροφαί, 2Pe_3:11; νόμος and ἐντολή, i. e. containing nothing exceptionable, Rom_7:12; φίλημα, such a kiss as is a sign of the purest love, 1Th_5:26; 1Co_16:20; 2Co_13:12; Rom_16:16. On the phrase τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα and τό πνεῦμα τό ἅγιον, see πνεῦμα, 4 a. Cf. Diestel, Die Heiligkeit gottes, in Jahrbb. f. deutsch. Theol. iv., p. 1ff; (Baudissin, Stud. z. Semitisch. Religionsgesch. Heft ii., p. 3ff; Delitzsch in Herzog edition 2, see 714ff; especially) Cremer, Wörterbuch, 4te Aufl., p. 32ff (translation of 2nd edition, p. 84ff; Oehler in Herzog 19:618ff; Zezschwitz, Profangräcität as above with, p. 15ff; Trench, § lxxxviii; Campbell, Dissertations, diss. vi., part iv.; especially Schmidt, chapter 181).
 

stunnedbygrace

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And if we don't have the indwelling Holy Spirit, we don't belong to Christ, simple as that, but I am being hard pressed by SBG [thlipsis][peiradzo] and would really want to give her a piece of my mind, but that would be playing right into her hands.

Signing off
J.
You know…I was just remembering how you were when I first met you. You were vicious. You tried to shut me up by tactics and mutterings and sayings related to you being a male and me a female. You had terrible and abusive words for females yet you often mentioned what a saint your wife had been. I wondered then if you might have guilt for ways you treated her after her death. Because the way you were willing to speak so viciously to a female was unlike any man I’d ever run across in my own life, personally, and you seemed to have one attitude toward women in general which was, at the very least, disdainful, contemptuous and violent but another attitude toward your dead wife. It didn’t match up to me.
By your viciousness you got banned for 30 days then came back when allowed to. And you mentioned, everywhere you could, that you had been banned because of me. You would say things like…be careful around her, she caused me to be banned., and …tread carefully guys, that one is out for blood. So you blamed me for your viciousness, blamed me for your violent mouth, blamed me for your temporary peace order banning. And that also Is a tactic of men who are abusive towards women - to blame them for the hatred and violence felt toward them and done to them.

But one day, I saw what I thought was an instant and inexplicable softening. In fact, I know I saw it. And I rejoiced in it and rejoiced for you and marveled over how God does the things He does and how He hears prayers.

But it was not long lived, that softening. And yet you seemed to have some control over your tongue you had not had previously. Then you saw the tactics of other men and women in here, how they would try to flatter me in some way and lament at how I had what they perceived to be a good heart but I had been ruined and abused and led away from God by Epi, the evil, false, satanic teacher. And you adopted their disgusting tactic, off and on. That divide and conquer tactic. You adopted falsity, false being, false doing, hiddenness, cowardice. You adopted laying a hidden net of false flattery for the feet of others who you felt acrimonious towards so you could trap them and tear down and divide and destroy.
And you’ve adopted their tactic of attacking in passive aggressive ways so as to be able to say, what? Who, me? I’ve done nothing wrong. No one has caught me cheating! And you’ve learned to artfully accuse others of the very thing you yourself are doing.

Dont you remember that day when you softened and cried tears and felt love for others? Why would you then choose to throw in with the mob of haters who try to hide their hate and who Use disgusting and false ways? Why would you choose that? How could you want that over love? How could you turn back from what you were given that day?
 
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stunnedbygrace

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There is a vast difference between "sinners of the gentiles" and those in Christ who through closeness to Him recognize their own deficiencies.
Could you lay out that vast difference for me? I’m suspicious of your thought/attitude/choice of different words of “sin” vs. “deficiency“ between unbelievers and yourself. It appears to me like putting your thumb on the scale because of the kindnesses God has shown you.
 
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Johann

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You know…I was just remembering how you were when I first met you. You were vicious. You tried to shut me up by tactics and mutterings and sayings related to you being a male and me a female. You had terrible and abusive words for females yet you often mentioned what a saint your wife had been. I wondered then if you might have guilt for ways you treated her after her death. Because the way you were willing to speak so viciously to a female was unlike any man I’d ever run across in my own life, personally, and you seemed to have one attitude toward women in general which was, at the very least, disdainful, contemptuous and violent but another attitude toward your dead wife. It didn’t match up to me.
By your viciousness you got banned for 30 days then came back when allowed to. And you mentioned, everywhere you could, that you had been banned because of me. You would say things like…be careful around her, she caused me to be banned., and …tread carefully guys, that one is out for blood. So you blamed me for your viciousness, blamed me for your violent mouth, blamed me for your temporary peace order banning. And that also Is a tactic of men who are abusive towards women - to blame them for the hatred and violence felt toward them and done to them.

But one day, I saw what I thought was an instant and inexplicable softening. In fact, I know I saw it. And I rejoiced in it and rejoiced for you and marveled over how God does the things He does and how He hears prayers.

But it was not long lived, that softening. And yet you seemed to have some control over your tongue you had not had previously. Then you saw the tactics of other men and women in here, how they would try to flatter me in some way and lament at how I had what they perceived to be a good heart but I had been ruined and abused and led away from God by Epi, the evil, false, satanic teacher. And you adopted their disgusting tactic, off and on. That divide and conquer tactic. You adopted falsity, false being, false doing, hiddenness, cowardice. You adopted laying a net of false flattery for the feet of others who you felt acrimonious towards so you could trap them and tear down and divide and destroy.
And you’ve adopted their tactic of attacking in passive aggressive ways so as to be able to say, what? Who, me? I’ve done nothing wrong. No one has caught me cheating! And you’ve learned to artfully accuse others of the very thing you yourself are doing.

Dont you remember that day when you softened and cried tears and felt love for others? Why would you then choose to throw in with the mob of haters who try to hide their hate and who Use disgusting and false ways? Why would you choose that? How could you want that over love? How could you turn back from what you were given that day?
I'm not here to entertain you, get that?
Two, leave my wife out of that vicious tongue of yours.
Three--I'm no brother of yours

Personally, there's more hope for Epi to come to his senses than you
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I'm not here to entertain you, get that?
Two, leave my wife out of that vicious tongue of yours.
Three--I'm no brother of yours

Personally, there's more hope for Epi to come to his senses than you
My tongue was vicious in that post? Or my tongue was sincere and truthful out of love for you? I’m actually glad to be back to being bitten by you. It’s a better place for you to be than falsity.
 

Johann

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My tongue was vicious in that post? Or my tongue was sincere and truthful out of love for you? I’m actually glad to be back to being bitten by you. It’s a better place for you to be than falsity.
Four--don't be surprised if Epi is going to be the one correcting you.
 

Lizbeth

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We are talking about OT righteousness. Before Jesus came to bring the higher walk in Him, based on a new kind of faith (the faith OF Christ) there was a common righteousness among the meek and God fearing. This is something the Jews understand very well...but people who come to God based on the NT not so much...or not at all. 2 examples among many will suffice. Actually the first is repeated twice and the second 3 times.

David says...judge me according to my righteousness

Os. 7:8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

Ez. 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

I realize that you may have to study on this for some years before you understand what I'm getting at...but the bible is the bible.
Hebrews 11. All the OT saints had faith. It was not righteousness alone. It seems that some want to make a case that people can be accepted/saved by their own righteousness, but no, that is simply contrary to what the bible teaches.

Heb 11:1-40

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

And what shall I more say? for time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, the

Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

It isn't me or anyone being a meany saying that without faith it is impossible to please Him and receive the promise of eternal life. It is the LORD. And WHO ARE WE TO GAINSAY HIM?? That is a spirit of self-righteousness that just accepts everyone regardless of faith, and in a subtle backhanded way accuses THE LORD GOD MOST HIGH and His true followers of being UNRIGHTEOUS. It tries to make itself out to be MORE RIGHTEOUS THAN GOD. THAT IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT! IT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE WORLD - OF SATAN, the ACCUSER.

We are instructed in the word (2 Cor. 6) to come out from among the unbelieving and be ye SEPARATE from them, to be not unequally yoked with them.....and then He will accept us. It says elsewhere that we are not to be in friendship with the world because that is ENMITY WITH GOD. He will not accept those who are in friendship/unity/yoked with the world.

But does that mean we would be justified in having a superior smug attitude towards those who are outside the faith....as we will be accused of by that spirit....no of course not. If we have a heart like that it would make us hypocrites and like the Pharisees and could disqualify us from the faith. That would not be fruit of the Holy Spirit. We are to love even our enemies. It's not for us to judge those who are outside. And it's always a case of there but for the grace of God go we. We all were once in darkness and lost like they were. And Christians are even to lay down our lives if need be that others might hear the gospel and be saved, and often do.
 

Episkopos

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My tongue was vicious in that post? Or my tongue was sincere and truthful out of love for you? I’m actually glad to be back to being bitten by you. It’s a better place for you to be than falsity.
Carnal reactions are never based on logic. It's emotional. The same goes for misinterpreting the bible. If it gives you are temporary "high" emotionally...and then that's it...you're hooked. And even if there are dozens of other verses that negate what you have bought into...that doesn't count because the "feeling" just isn't there. So much for subjective interpretation. And then if you get others to support you in your new found delusion...then you can ALL collectively ignore major portions of the bible...together! :)

But wait...do these all agree on other points? Not at all. The cracks soon begin to tell. The carnal mind fixates on other emotional stimuli...and different people react differently to different carnal stimuli. And then there is a partial logic...whereby one person sees the obvious error in the other's doctrine...as per logic? Why? Because that doctrine wasn't yet locked into emotionally.

Based on such emotional reactions, we get denominations. Divisions within a Body in a baby stage. Do people grow out of these divisions? Not very many. That would take something greater than carnal emotions to take people away from their own understanding.

Until there is something deeeper than emotions going on...something that is actually spiritual and and life-giving...believers will remain in a permanent baby stage, relying on emotions and flawed logic.
 
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Episkopos

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Hebrews 11. All the OT saints had faith. It was not righteousness alone. It seems that some want to make a case that people can be accepted/saved by their own righteousness, but no, that is simply contrary to what the bible teaches.

Heb 11:1-40

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

And what shall I more say? for time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, the

Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

It isn't me or anyone being a meany saying that without faith it is impossible to please Him and receive the promise of eternal life. It is the LORD. And WHO ARE WE TO GAINSAY HIM?? That is a spirit of self-righteousness that just accepts everyone regardless of faith, and in a subtle backhanded way accuses THE LORD GOD MOST HIGH and His true followers of being UNRIGHTEOUS. It tries to make itself out to be MORE RIGHTEOUS THAN GOD. THAT IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT! IT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE WORLD - OF SATAN, the ACCUSER.

We are instructed in the word (2 Cor. 6) to come out from among the unbelieving and be ye SEPARATE from them, to be not unequally yoked with them.....and then He will accept us. It says elsewhere that we are not to be in friendship with the world because that is ENMITY WITH GOD. He will not accept those who are in friendship/unity/yoked with the world.

But does that mean we would be justified in having a superior smug attitude towards those who are outside the faith....as we will be accused of by that spirit....no of course not. If we have a heart like that it would make us hypocrites and like the Pharisees and could disqualify us from the faith. That would not be fruit of the Holy Spirit. We are to love even our enemies. It's not for us to judge those who are outside. And it's always a case of there but for the grace of God go we. We all were once in darkness and lost like they were. And Christians are even to lay down our lives if need be that others might hear the gospel and be saved, and often do.
You are reacting in an emotional way to what is written plainly and clearly in the bible. Address what the bible says...not deflect into something that you are fixated on...that ruins your understanding of deeper things.

Do you believe that the bible comes from the inspired words from God?...or not?

Or does leaning on your own understanding "feel" better to you?

When people react very strongly against the mention of righteousness ...could it be based on guilt and there being UNrighteousness at work?
 
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Behold

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Until there is something deeeper than emotions going on...something that is actually spiritual and and life-giving...believers will remain in a permanent baby stage, relying on emotions and flawed logic.


Episkopos,
Your Hyper Calvinism obsession, is not emotional, its just demonic.

Calvinism is a Cross denying plague, and you are selling it by the post and Thread and Video.
 
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Lizbeth

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I'm not here to entertain you, get that?
Two, leave my wife out of that vicious tongue of yours.
Three--I'm no brother of yours

Personally, there's more hope for Epi to come to his senses than you
There is as much accountability around here as with two-year olds, I'm afraid. They will never see or admit to any wrong that they do. They have a need to fiercely protect SELF and that is why when proven wrong rather than simply admit to being wrong they start to throw things at you. But God sees and there are times when we have to leave it in his hands, though things seem so unjust at times it is galling. Judgment Day is coming, but we even hope for those who do us wrong to not have to face His wrath. I fear for some that they are on a fast track to where they won't want to be, if they don't turn around.
 
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Johann

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You are reacting in an emotional way to what is written plainly and clearly in the bible. Address what the bible says...not deflect into something that you are fixated on...that ruins your understanding of deeper things.

Do you believe that the bible comes from the inspired words from God?...or not?
Nothing emotional from our sister, brother.
Would you like it in Hebrew, Chinese, or in ulimi LweziZulu?

Where is your "humility?"
Address the scriptures, and don't resort to personal attacks.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Carnal reactions are never based on logic. It's emotional. The same goes for misinterpreting the bible. If it gives you are temporary "high" emotionally...and then that's it...you're hooked. And even if there are dozens of other verses that negate what you have bought into...that doesn't count because the "feeling" just isn't there. So much for subjective interpretation. And then if you get others to support you in your new found delusion...then you can ALL collectively ignore major portions of the bible...together! :)

But wait...do these all agree on other points? Not at all. The cracks soon begin to tell. The carnal mind fixates on other emotional stimuli...and different people react differently to different carnal stimuli. And then there is a partial logic...whereby one person sees the obvious error in the other's doctrine...as per logic? Why? Because that doctrine wasn't yet locked into emotionally.

Based on such emotional reactions, we get denominations. Divisions within a Body in a baby stage. Do people grow out of these divisions? Not very many. That would take something greater than carnal emotions to take people away from their own understanding.

Until there is something deeeper than emotions going on...something that is actually spiritual and and life-giving...believers will remain in a permanent baby stage, relying on emotions and flawed logic.
I began reading the writer Laurina introduced me to last night. A section of what I read addresses what you’ve said here . This is Kierkegaard:

us ordinary people are afraid to come into personal, immediate contact with the eternal. Instead, we rely on traditions and the voice of others. We are content to be a specimen or a copy, liv ing a life shielded against individual responsibility before the Truth.
True individuality is measured by this: how long or how far one can endure being alone without the understanding of oth ers.
The person who can endure being alone is poles apart from the social mixer. He is miles apart from the man-pleaser, the one who manages successfully with everyone – he who possesses no sharp edges. God never uses such people. The true individual, anyone who is going to be directly involved with God, will not and cannot avoid the human bite. He will be thoroughly mis understood. God is no friend of cozy human gathering.
Yes, in the purely human world the rule is this: Seek out the help and opinion of others. Christ says: Beware of men! The majority of people are not only afraid of holding a wrong opin ion, they are afraid of holding an opinion alone. In the physical world water puts out fire. So too in the spiritual world. The “many”, the mass of people, put out the inner fire – beware of men!
 

stunnedbygrace

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There is as much accountability around here as with two-year olds, I'm afraid. They will never see or admit to any wrong that they do. They have a need to fiercely protect SELF and that is why when proven wrong rather than simply admit to being wrong they start to throw things at you. But God sees and there are times when we have to leave it in his hands, though things seem so unjust at times it is galling. Judgment Day is coming, but we even hope for those who do us wrong to not have to face His wrath. I fear for some that they are on a fast track to where they won't want to be, if they don't turn around.
Wrong is not determined by your feelings and emotions.
When someone speaks truth, they are not throwing things at you Or being mean to you. It just FEELS that way to you.
 
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Johann

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Episkopos,
Your Hyper Calvinism obsession, is not emotional, its just demonic.

Calvinism is a Cross denying plague, and you are selling it by the post and Thread and Video.
You sure about the fact he is promulgating Hyper-Calvinism?
 
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