We’re the two witnesses from the past?

[David in NJ]

Now, back to the topic of this thread by the op.
I will reintroduce my thoughts on the matter from my post #20:

"Actually, the two witnesses were John the Baptist and Jesus. In all the world, they were the only ones who were born of the Holy Spirit, HAVING the Holy Spirit at birth.

John is a WITNESS to who Jesus Is, and Jesus is a WITNESS TO WHO God is."

Something for you to ponder, meditate on and receive from Above.

John 8:13-18
The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.”

Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.
And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true.
I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”

 

[Earburner]

Something for you to ponder, meditate on and receive from Above.

John 8:13-18
The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.”

Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.
And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true.
I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”

Something else to ponder, meditate on and receive from Above....

Since John the Baptist was not God, nor the Son, it is evident that he was the greatest of the prophets, because ONLY God the Father Himself could have said the following words twice through him, on two different days:
John 1
[29] The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
[36] And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

According to Jewish thinking, for a man to be a sacrifice for others, is not acceptable to God, thus revealing that Jesus was more than a man. He was God the Son, made to be in the likeness of mortal flesh, who is Prophet, Priest and the King of kings.

And now all can understand what is truly being said in Mat. 11
[11] Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

If you would be thinking that Jesus was talking about us, you would be wrong.

 

[David in NJ]

Something else to ponder, meditate on and receive from Above....

Since John the Baptist was not God, nor the Son, it is evident that he was the greatest of the prophets, because ONLY God the Father Himself could have said the following words twice through him, on two different days:
John 1
[29] The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
[36] And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

According to Jewish thinking, for a man to be a sacrifice for others, is not acceptable to God, thus revealing that Jesus was more than a man. He was God the Son, made to be in the likeness of mortal flesh, who is Prophet, Priest and the King of kings.

And now all can understand what is truly being said in Mat. 11
[11] Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

If you would be thinking that Jesus was talking about us, you would be wrong.

You failed.

 

[Earburner]

No, you were blinded by the light.

Edit: Zech. 4[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by [for] the LORD of the whole earth.

YOU may not grasp this right away, but before Jesus' baptism, the literal Spirit of God the Father was NOT yet within the mortal body of Jesus (God the Son), but was speaking through John the Baptist, saying: "Behold the Lamb of God.....", just before Jesus was baptized of the Holy Spirit of God the Father-
John 1[32] And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. Saying: Mat. 3[17] And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

So then, at that moment of baptism, did God the Father enter within Jesus (God the Son), and not at anytime since His birth (yes, Jesus is eternal, but while in mortal flesh, He was literally mortal).
Heb.10
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Oh yes, through Jesus, many miracles occurred, but...who did He say was doing those miracles, and speaking the words that came out of His mouth?
Ans. The Father within Him DOETH the works....
John 14
[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Only AFTER Jesus' baptism are the words of John 8:16 TRUE.
[16] And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for [after my baptism] I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

As prophesied in Zech. 4:14, John the Baptist and Jesus, were a JOINT ministry. They prophesied for a total of 1260 days.

 

[ewq1938]

Now, back to the topic of this thread by the op.
I will reintroduce my thoughts on the matter from my post #20:

"Actually, the two witnesses were John the Baptist and Jesus. In all the world, they were the only ones who were born of the Holy Spirit, HAVING the Holy Spirit at birth.

John is a WITNESS to who Jesus Is, and Jesus is a WITNESS TO WHO God is."

The two witnesses are two churches and two individuals, called the two prophets. NEither fo those will be Jesus or John because they are future persons who will be killed in the future GT.

Jesus is not going to be killed twice. He was resurrected immortal *SMH*

 

[Earburner]

The two witnesses are two churches and two individuals, called the two prophets. NEither fo those will be Jesus or John because they are future persons who will be killed in the future GT.

Jesus is not going to be killed twice. He was resurrected immortal *SMH*

That's the point. Jesus and John were both killed once.
1. Were they killed before the great and terrible Day of the Lord?
Yes they were.

2. Are they still witnessing to the world after their death?
Yes, they are. Through the Bible, as well through us, who are Christ's ambassadors

3. When Jesus was resurrected, was John the baptist resurrected also, being among the many that came out of their graves, after His resurrection?
I should say so!
He is the only person born of women, who had the Holy Spirit at birth.

 

[ewq1938]

That's the point. Jesus and John were both killed once.
1. Were they killed before the great and terrible Day of the Lord?
Yes they were.

That is meaningless. The two prophets are killed by the beast in the GT. The beast is not here yet and the GT hasn't started. They will resurrect and rise into heaven just before the second coming...none of those events have happened yet.

2. Are they still witnessing to the world after their death?
Yes, they are. Through the Bible, as well through us, who are Christ's ambassadors

That doesn't match what Rev 11 says about the two prophets.

3. When Jesus was resurrected, was John the baptist resurrected also, being among the many that came out of their graves, after His resurrection?
I should say so!
He is the only person born of women, who had the Holy Spirit at birth.

The two prophets are killed at the same time, and their dead bodies will lie in the street for 3.5 days. Obviously that does not match the deaths of John or Jesus in the slightest. Your psoition on all this is laughable because it is so unrelated to anything in scripture.

 

[Earburner]

That is meaningless. The two prophets are killed by the beast in the GT. The beast is not here yet and the GT hasn't started. They will resurrect and rise into heaven just before the second coming...none of those events have happened yet.

According to the book of Daniel, there are four beasts that are world ruling kingdoms/empires. The fourth empire was the Roman Empire. It never died, but rather dispersed into Europe, and has been evolving since then. It's final form will be a Global Economic Empire. The clue of it's manifestation will be the mark of the beast, which is NOW forming.

That is meaningless. The two prophets are killed by the beast in the GT. The beast is not here yet and the GT hasn't started. They will resurrect and rise into heaven just before the second coming...none of those events have happened yet.





That doesn't match what Rev 11 says about the two prophets.





The two prophets are killed at the same time, and their dead bodies will lie in the street for 3.5 days. Obviously that does not match the deaths of John or Jesus in the slightest. Your psoition on all this is laughable because it is so unrelated to anything in scripture.

From God's perspective, the two most "anointed" (Zech. 4:14) prophets in all the world, were John the Baptist and Jesus.
Their ministry was a joint ministry for a total of 1260 days, aka 3.5 years. The book of Revelation is highly symbolic and coded. The 3.5 days in Rev. is code for the 1260 days of their ministry. John for 6 mos. and Jesus for 3 years.

 

[Timtofly]

The book of Revelation is highly symbolic and coded.

Not for your interpretation. That is a private imagination.

Besides Daniel 2 has 5 kingdoms. Those four beasts are for the still defunct 6th Kingdom that will be revived at the Second Coming in opposition to Jesus sitting on the throne in Jerusalem, with the 144k, and the angels, per Matthew 25:31.

5 Kingdoms have fallen and the 6th is mortally wounded with no current world dictator calling all the shots.

 

[quietthinker]

We’re the two witnesses from the past?​

they usually are aren't they?

 

[Earburner]

Besides Daniel 2 has 5 kingdoms. Those four beasts are for the still defunct 6th Kingdom that will be revived at the Second Coming in opposition to Jesus sitting on the throne in Jerusalem, with the 144k, and the angels, per Matthew 25:31.

And you think that I have private interpretations??
What throne?
Who is going to build it?
In what temple?
Which Jerusalem?

The book of Daniel was for Israel, as the book of Revelation is for Christ's church.
By Jesus' first manifestation in the flesh, He fulfilled all the Law and the words of the OC prophets.
John 5
[39] Search the [OT] scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 

[ewq1938]

According to the book of Daniel, there are four beasts that are world ruling kingdoms/empires. The fourth empire was the Roman Empire. It never died, but rather dispersed into Europe, and has been evolving since then.

You mentioned Daniel but didn't seem to notice the defeat of the 4th beast is done by an arrival of God and how the previous beasts are allowed to remain alive. That doesn't match Rome nor the typical identification of the first 3 beasts.

It's final form will be a Global Economic Empire. The clue of it's manifestation will be the mark of the beast, which is NOW forming.

From God's perspective, the two most "anointed" (Zech. 4:14) prophets in all the world, were John the Baptist and Jesus.

So? There is no such specific description of the two prophets being so called "most anointed". You keep avoiding the fact that Jesus was resurrected immortal and cannot die making it impossible to be killed again like the two prophets are. The dead in Christ are also raised immortal so that eliminates John as well. The two prophets have to be two people that have never died before.

Their ministry was a joint ministry for a total of 1260 days, aka 3.5 years. The book of Revelation is highly symbolic and coded. The 3.5 days in Rev. is code for the 1260 days of their ministry. John for 6 mos. and Jesus for 3 years.

Again, not a match to the 1260 days the two prophets will have. They die together, not separate like Jesus and John.

 

[Earburner]

There is no such specific description of the two prophets being so called "most anointed".

Wrong! You misquoted my words with my grammar marks. I said most "anointed",
and why!! Zech. 4:14. (Post #428).
You don't seem to understand that Jesus Himself is Holy Spirit with His Father, and John the Baptist was the only human being ever, who had the Holy Spirit of God at birth.
There will be no other witnesses equal to or greater than them!!!

 

[Earburner]

So? There is no such specific description of the two prophets being so called "most anointed". You keep avoiding the fact that Jesus was resurrected immortal and cannot die making it impossible to be killed again like the two prophets are. The dead in Christ are also raised immortal so that eliminates John as well. The two prophets have to be two people that have never died before.

The book of Revelation is NOT ABOUT future events only. God thinks in the past, present and future, ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
If you will remember that, you will have a better understanding in interpreting His words by "the Mind of Christ within you", and not your own mind, which feeds on the literal written words.
Isa. 55:8-9.

John 6
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
1 Cor. 2[14] But the [mind of the] natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

 

[Earburner]

Again, not a match to the 1260 days the two prophets will have. They die together, not separate like Jesus and John.

John and Jesus were a joint ministry.
Mary and Elisabeth knew each other before their children were born.

Elisabeth and John the baptist:
John 1
[12] And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
[14] And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
[16] And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
[17] And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Mary and Jesus:
[34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
[36] And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
[37] For with God nothing shall be impossible.
[38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
[39] And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
[40] And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
[41] And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
[42] And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
[43] And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
[44] For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

If that isn't being "anointed" before and at birth, with the symbolic "oil" of the Holy Spirit of God (Zech. 4), then all of Christianity has gone blind to the truth.
Zech. 4
[11] Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
[12] And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes EMPTY the golden OIL out of themselves?
[13] And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by [for] the LORD of the whole earth.

 

[Timtofly]

And you think that I have private interpretations??
What throne?
Who is going to build it?
In what temple?
Which Jerusalem?

The book of Daniel was for Israel, as the book of Revelation is for Christ's church.
By Jesus' first manifestation in the flesh, He fulfilled all the Law and the words of the OC prophets.
John 5
[39] Search the [OT] scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Ask Jesus. He is the one who said He would sit on His glorious throne.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another."

 

[Earburner]

Ask Jesus. He is the one who said He would sit on His glorious throne.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another."

Mat. 25
[31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The word "Glory" is in reference to all of God’s born again people. Children are the glory of the parents.
Therefore, we also are children to God, who believe in Jesus, and have invited Him into our life. We are the very essence and place of His "throne room", dwelling within our very own being.
As the scripture says: 2 Cor.
[7] But we have this treasure [God Himself] in earthen vessels [our mortal bodies], that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The deepest desire of God the Father has always been for Him to FIRST dwell (sit) within Jesus, who was made to be flesh as "the living veil".
And then through Jesus, who dwells (sits) within us, BOTH He and God the Father, AS ONE, dwells (sits) within us all, who are born again. John 14:23.
Heb. 10
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Maybe this will help with the spiritual understanding:
Rev. 21[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
We ourselves are "the throne of His Glory".

So then, who is sitting upon the "throne" of your heart/your self will?

 

[ewq1938]

John and Jesus were a joint ministry.

John died before Jesus, and both would be resurrected as immortals proving they cannot die and therefore cannot be either of the Rev 11 two prophets. Going to just ignore those facts forever?

 

[ewq1938]

The book of Revelation is NOT ABOUT future events only.

No one said it was but it is mostly about future events.

God thinks in the past, present and future, ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

You made that up out of thin air. It's nonsense all at the same time.

 

[Earburner]

No one said it was but it is mostly about future events.




You made that up out of thin air. It's nonsense all at the same time.

Then you must have another understanding of God's eternity.

It could be that "time" there, such as past, present and future is undefined, which would be having the ability to think, not in time, but rather in eternity, where there is no marking of time, such as past, present and future.

So then, if one cannot think in time, and therefore must think in eternity, then one is thinking in the past, present and the future, all at the same time.
Rev. 10
[6] And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: