Inconsistency of teaching faith without works

[Earburner]

Another inconsistency is dealing with grace and faith.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

On the one hand, Eph 2 is taken to mean by faith alone, and without works, because there is no mention of works with faith.

On the other hand, Rom 3 is not taken to mean by grace alone, and without faith, even though there is no mention of faith with works.

If we're going to rule out works with faith in Eph 2, because of works' absence in the verse, then we may also rule out faith with grace in, because of faith's absence in the verse.

The same can be said for being justified by faith without grace in Rom 5:

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

It appears that no matter how it is said about God's grace, it is through having faith in Jesus to usward. Grace from God the Father is the forgiveness of sins, and then for the asking, we can receive the Gift of His eternal life, His Holy Spirit, which is the very being of Himself, who dwells within Jesus, the living veil of his flesh, for both God the Father and ourselves.

So, whether it is grace and works, grace for works, grace in works, grace by works, grace with works, grace of works, grace if works, or even grace is works, Jesus made it clear that our belief in him is the work of God that we should DO. Which is to do the work of belief in Jesus.
John 6
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work [do] the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Earburner]

Hello Reggie,

Thank you for sharing, the definition is founded to sustain as:

1 Corinthians
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

I also do not mind if it says love there, even though in greek there are 8 types of love or so, agape love, which is mentioned here is the superior love as it loves unconditionally (a supernatural virtue produced by the Holy Spirit which is given from Yahava through Christ indeed).

Peace unto you,
Matthew

I think that by God's Holy Spirit within us, aka the mind of Christ, we all know the two greatest commandments.
It's not that we should do them, but rather it is Christ Himself that does them through us.

So then, if we are not doing what Christ urges and expects of us, to allow ourselves to become a holy living sacrifice unto God, then the 2nd commandment cannot be performed by Him through us.

I believe that many Christians "have the cart before the horse". A good biblical illustration of this is the true story of Jesus with Martha and Mary and their differences, both looking to Jesus. Luke 10:38-42.

 

[mailmandan]

Ghada said:
Paul calls this striving about words to no effect. The Bible does not make difference between 'accounted' as righteous and 'being' righteous.

The Bible does make a difference between "accounted as righteous" (Romans 4:2-6) and "shown to be righteous." (James 2:21,24)

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344. Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Strongs's #1344: dikaioo - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools

No problem. And when those works are done, only then we are justified by them with God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Nothing comes by faith without works, but death without God, because that faith is dead to God.

Big problem. In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. (James 2:18) That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

So, Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before the work of offering up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. Once again, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Let that sink in.

True. Paul clarifies that we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done without Christ. (Gal 5) No past works of our own qualify us for being saved by God.

Works of righteousness are works done in righteousness, so they are not apart from Christ. No past, present or future works in general qualify us for being saved by God. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) We are not saved by works. Period.

Pau;l never says we are saved by faith alone, by faith without works, nor by any works at all, which would contradict James 2.

Paul said that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) and that God imputes righteousness apart from works. (Romans 4:6) Hence, faith alone. The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39; 15:9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-9, 26; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24)

That includes Romans 2 and James 1, where only the doers of the word are justified by God, and not the hearers only.

Which also includes John saying only the doers of righteousness and the truth are born of God. Which Jesus confirms by saying only the doers of the will of God are His family.

In regard to the doers of the law in Romans 2:13, you need to examine this verse in CONTEXT. Paul was talking to the Jews (continue to read on in Romans 2:17-24) about their judging of the Gentiles and then points them to their own law (standard of judgment) and hypocrisy and tells them that the doers of the law will be justified before God (verse 13). That leaves them out, along with everyone else (Romans 3:22-28; Galatians 2:16).

The standard they wanted to measure up to was the law. Paul was telling them that the doers of the law will be justified. So, obey the law, obey all of it, but if you don’t obey all of it, you failed! He tells them that the Gentiles who didn't have the law according to the knowledge of the Jews were instinctively doing the things of the law (verse 14) and will be judged accordingly. How much more so the Jews? Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to measure up to the perfect standard of the law. They were hypocrites.

This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter in Romans 3:28 that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law. No one was able to perfectly obey the law (which includes the 10 commandments) except for Jesus Christ. If you fail even once (stumble in one point), then you become guilty of all.

James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." Galatians 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." The Jews could only be justified before God by keeping the Law, but he or she has to be 100% perfect, which is impossible! A person can’t fail even once, not ever. But all have failed (Romans 3:23; 6:23), that is why man is justified before God by faith and not by works of the law. (Romans 3:24-28; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

Ghada said:
The faith alone doctrine of hearers only, is dead faith by knowledge only through hearing. Faith without doing is dead and does nothing to save nor justify a man to be in God's family of the righteous.

In regard to "faith without works is dead" James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims (key word) they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) Authentic faith results in good works. (Ephesians 2:10) Man is saved through faith in Christ alone "apart from the merit of works" (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) yet authentic faith does not remain alone "apart from the presence of works." (James 2:14-24)

At least that's what the Bible says. Others play games with the words of the Bible to say and teach some other faith and gospel, than that of Jesus Christ.

I know what the Bible says, and you are teaching a "different" gospel of "works righteousness." (Galatians 1:6-9) The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

This is absolutely true. We are to only believe Jesus as the true God and do His will to please the Father.

There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED (John 6:40) and doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED. (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18)

That's not the doctrine of faith alone without works.

Man is saved through faith in Christ alone "apart from the merit of works." (Romans 4:2-5; Ephesians 2:8,9) That is the doctrine of faith in Christ alone/God imputes righteousness apart from works. (Romans 4:6)

True. Not for one second, because Satan comes to take away any faith sown in our hearts by hearing the word, if we are not doing faith to resist Him until he flees from us.

Luke 8:5 - A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it.. 11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

God the Sower makes sure to divide between the hearers only, and the doers of His word, by allowing the devil to immediately try our faith upon hearing. He sees if we are fighting to resist the devil, or allowing his lust and corruption of the world to continue in our hearts.

Only the seed that fell on good ground produced a crop.

Faith alone without works is by hearing only, and is dead seed on the wayside, that immediately taken out of the hearts of the unrepentant non-doers of the word.

An empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works" (James 2:14) is not authentic faith but is a bare profession of faith. If a person has a non-repentant, dead faith then of course they will not be a doer of the word. They have not yet been made alive in Christ and remain dead in their trespasses and sins and are sons of disobedience. (Ephesians 2:1-3) In contrast with those who have been made alive in Christ, saved by grace through faith, not works, are created in Christ Jesus unto good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) Only the latter are doers of the word.

 

[MatthewG]

I think that by God's Holy Spirit within us, aka the mind of Christ, we all know the two greatest commandments.
It's not that we should do them, but rather it is Christ Himself that does them through us.

So then, if we are not doing what Christ urges and expects of us, to allow ourselves to become a holy living sacrifice unto God, then the 2nd commandment cannot be performed by Him through us.

I believe that many Christians "have the cart before the horse". A good biblical illustration of this is the true story of Jesus with Martha and Mary and their differences, both looking to Jesus. Luke 10:38-42.

Hello Earburner,

It most certainly is a choice, does the person put having love Yahava first, having faith that he is indeed there allowing him to work in the heart and mind of the individual as they go and seek after Him. Following the Lord Jesus Christ, to have that mind of christ fortified as they go along this life, by and through allowing the Spirit of Christ to come through as you suggested in which does show agape love towards others which is what Yahava shows towards all people calling them by His spirit to come to his son, who is the way to the Father. Some may have the cart before the horse, or have yet to discover what is truth, in which they are set free to walk by faith, and walking in the spirit opposed to the flesh.

Peace unto you, with love, and carry on brother,
Matthew

 

[mailmandan]

So long as you say it is with men and not God

?

James 2:14-26 KJV
14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

First, Abraham believed God, and was credited with righteousness. Later, Abraham did the works which justified him, as the passage says, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

This passage does not say that we are justified to God by our works. Personally I find it plainly stated what this passage is saying.

Much love!

Amen! Man is justified (accounted as righteous) before God by faith and not by works. (Romans 4:2-6)

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

And man is justified (shown to be righteous) by works. (James 2:24)

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Strong's #1344: dikaioo
Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

Strongs's #1344: dikaioo - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools

www.bibletools.org

 

[Ghada]

Well now you are adding justification but even romans four clearly says we are justified by Faith.

Well now you are conceding the argument, and agreeing the Bible is adding works to justification, which is true.

Teaching faith without works, as the only Bible means of salvation and justification, is found to be inconsistent when teaching about faith and works.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

One the one hand, the words of Ephesians 2 are believed and taken literally, so that we can only be saved by, with, and through the means of grace.

But on the other hand, the same words of James 2 are not believed and taken literally, so that we cannot be justified by, with, and through the means of works.

If we are not justified by works, then neither are we justified by grace. If being justified by works, does not mean with works, then being saved by grace, does not mean with grace.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

...even grace is works...

Scripture puts this to rest, eh?

Rom 11:6 "And if by Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise Grace is no more​

Grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace: otherwise work is no more work."​

​

Amen.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well now you are conceding the argument, and agreeing the Bible is adding works to justification, which is true.

Teaching faith without works, as the only Bible means of salvation and justification, is found to be inconsistent when teaching about faith and works.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

One the one hand, the words of Ephesians 2 are believed and taken literally, so that we can only be saved by, with, and through the means of grace.

But on the other hand, the same words of James 2 are not believed and taken literally, so that we cannot be justified by, with, and through the means of works.

If we are not justified by works, then neither are we justified by grace. If being justified by works, does not mean with works, then being saved by grace, does not mean with grace.

Well I teach salvation aND JUSTIFICATION BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS ALONE! WORKS COME AFTER ONE IS SAVED AS A RESULT OF SALVATION. THAT IS THE PROCESS OF BEING SANCTIFIED.

Ephesians 2:8-10

King James Version

​

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Works come after salvation and justification.

 

[Ghada]

Works are the proof of faith.

Since you don't refute the argument, then you agree that the justification in James 2 is not with men, but with God by works, as exampled by God with Abraham and Rahab.

And so, no man is justified with God by faith only, but also by works.

And so any teaching of not being justified with God by works, but by faith only, is that of another gospel than the Bible.

Claiming this is teaching we are justifed to God by our works

Which is James 2. where you agree the justification is that of God by works, as with Abraham and Rahab and all believing children of Abraham.

ignores the plain context of the passage,

Which you agree is the justification of God by works, as with Abraham and Rahab and all believing children of Abraham.

 

[Ghada]

no. Paul said not by works period. he never says just past works..

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

I gave you the verse, and you not only ignore it, but reject it. The pattern here is of rejecting any verses of the Bible, that do not conform to your gospel of being justified without any works at all.

 

[Ghada]

I believe God gave us a whole book. when we continually stick to one passage or a few verses. and thats all. we make the bibkle say what we want, and do not listen to what it says.

If we continually stick to opposing any plain-spoken verse or two in the Bible, then all our teaching elsewhere is corrupting the Bible, in order to teach what originally opposes those one or two verses.

So long as James 2 is opposed as written, and changed into something else, then every other verse of the Bible about justification is corrupted by inserting the other gospel of justification by faith only.

As you do. Since you oppose the words of James 2, and say it is only speaking of being justified with men by works, then you teach in opposition to it and so corrupt all teaching of justification elsewhere in the Bible.

I look to the whole book. and I understand james, James is not saying what you think, he does not contradict paul like your making him do

Your understanding of James 2, is that the justification spoken of is with men by works, and not with God by works, as was Abraham and Rahab.

It's been shown wrong, and you agree, since you have no response to it. And so like the verses themselves, you ignore it to teach your own faith without works gospel.

In James 2, the justification spoken of is with God by works, even as with the examples of Abraham and Rahab.

Just like our father Abraham, we children of Abraham by faith must be justified by works with God, and not by faith only.

That is the only way for us to be called Friends of God, even as Abraham.

 

[Ghada]

Grace is a gift. it is not earned. It is paid by someone else

You first ignore the grace taught by verses of the Bible I give. And then you teach another grace with words never spoken in the Bible.

That is also your manner with faith, works, justification, and now grace.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to try and stop anyone from preaching whatever Christian faith and gospel they wish. That liberty is given by God Himself in this life. Including on this site. I only show if they differ from the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible, and exactly how.

You work for a wage, or a reward.. you earn your wage or reward

True. Current salvation is not by wage nor reward.

Future eternal salvation by resurrection of the dead, is by wage and reward for doing His word at the end. The inheritance of the everlasting kingdom of Christ is by reward. (Col 3:24) It's the promised reward for doing those things necessary in this life to never fall from grace unto the end. (2 Peter 1)

The wage and reward of sinning unto death, is resurrection unto everlasting shame. (Rom 6) Sinful works has wages, and so do righteous works.

Christians in this life can be saved by their own faith alone, and teach whole doctrines and gospels for it, but that all ends in the grave. The Bible teaches only those obeying Jesus in the end will win the crown of eternal salvation. (Heb 5:9)(Phil 3:8)(1 Cor 9)

No one will be able to resurrect their dead bodies unto life by their own faith alone, just because they currently save themselves by it in this life.

Salvation is a gift. It can not be earned.. If it could be earned, Christ died in vein.

The faith of Jesus sown in the heart by hearing the gospel is the free gift. Salvation and Justification by that gift, is by exercising that gift and obeying His faith.

That not of ourselves is faith, not grace nor salvation.

Our own faith alone is of ourselves. It is our own gift to ourselves. It's not the gift of the faith of Jesus.

Christians who trust in their own faith alone without doing the word, and trusting in their own gift of faith to themselves by their own free will.

 

[Ghada]

"If I build again that thing I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor."

If we build again ungodliness in our lives, that we once repented of, then we become ungodly transgressors again.

The Law always and only condemns, because everyone breaks it. Of course, the Law was given to be a covenant between Israel and God. We have a covenant in Christ that we serve Christ, not the Law that was given to Israel, in the time before Christ came.

Much love!

Doing away with the NT law of Christ along with the OT law of Moses, is popular device for the faith alone gospel.

They throw out the baby with the bathwater and just declare themselves free from the law of Christ. Jesus Christ sets us free from transgressing His law. He saves us from our sinning, not from the righteous judgement of sinning, while sinning.

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

The faith without works gospel is for the lawless promising liberty without the law of Christ, and delivering death by transgressing it.

 

[Ghada]

It appears that no matter how it is said about God's grace, it is through having faith in Jesus to usward. Grace from God the Father is the forgiveness of sins, and then for the asking, we can receive the Gift of His eternal life, His Holy Spirit, which is the very being of Himself, who dwells within Jesus, the living veil of his flesh, for both God the Father and ourselves.

So, whether it is grace and works, grace for works, grace in works, grace by works, grace with works, grace of works, grace if works, or even grace is works, Jesus made it clear that our belief in him is the work of God that we should DO. Which is to do the work of belief in Jesus.
John 6
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work [do] the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Amen. Faith without works is dead, and grace without works is not given.

 

[Ghada]

He did not say they had faith, he said THEY said they had faith.

This is not what James 2 is teaching, but let's go with it.

If we say we have faith, and have not works, then we have no faith.

If we say we have justification, and do not justly, then we have no justification.

If we say we have righteousness, and do not righteousness, then we have no righteousness.

By the doctrinal teaching of faith without works Christians, they declare no man has any faith, justification, nor righteousness when not doing it.

James only says the faith they have is dead, but this teaching goes further and declares without works, there is no faith, justification, nor righteousness at all.

The result is the same. No man is counted by God as believing, saved, just, nor righteous without doing the His word of faith.

 

[marks]

Since you don't refute the argument, then you agree that the justification in James 2 is not with men, but with God by works, as exampled by God with Abraham and Rahab.

I've refuted it a few times, and now you play word games.

I'd hoped for a more serious discussion.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

I gave you the verse, and you not only ignore it, but reject it. The pattern here is of rejecting any verses of the Bible, that do not conform to your gospel of being justified without any works at all.

lol,

He said he saved us (talking to believers) according to his mercy not works

this is a completed action. We are not trying to keep our salvation by works. That would be saving ourselves. And not by Gods mercy..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If we continually stick to opposing any plain-spoken verse or two in the Bible, then all our teaching elsewhere is corrupting the Bible, in order to teach what originally opposes those one or two verses.

So long as James 2 is opposed as written, and changed into something else, then every other verse of the Bible about justification is corrupted by inserting the other gospel of justification by faith only.

James 2 does not appose my belief, I interpret it in a way in which it agrees with all of sctripture

You can nt say the same

As you do. Since you oppose the words of James 2, and say it is only speaking of being justified with men by works, then you teach in opposition to it and so corrupt all teaching of justification elsewhere in the Bible.

Your understanding of James 2, is that the justification spoken of is with men by works, and not with God by works, as was Abraham and Rahab.

It's been shown wrong, and you agree, since you have no response to it. And so like the verses themselves, you ignore it to teach your own faith without works gospel.

In James 2, the justification spoken of is with God by works, even as with the examples of Abraham and Rahab.

Just like our father Abraham, we children of Abraham by faith must be justified by works with God, and not by faith only.

That is the only way for us to be called Friends of God, even as Abraham.

I do not appose James 2

James said show ME your works.

Abraham was saved decades before he offered his son.. His faith saved him, His faith however was not dead. Proven by the fact he did works..

Romans 4 says the excat opposite of james 2. You have to interpret those passages so they agree, not contradict.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You first ignore the grace taught by verses of the Bible I give. And then you teach another grace with words never spoken in the Bible.

That is also your manner with faith, works, justification, and now grace.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to try and stop anyone from preaching whatever Christian faith and gospel they wish. That liberty is given by God Himself in this life. Including on this site. I only show if they differ from the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible, and exactly how.

lol.. I teach the biblical grace.

It is a free gift. We recieve it by recieving christ.. and becoming Children of God. God then Changes us and makes us new creatures. Old things are passed away all things are new. Gods children DO WORK, because they are saved, not to get saved.

True. Current salvation is not by wage nor reward.

Salvation PERIOD..

Your not partially saved your either saved or your not

Future eternal salvation by resurrection of the dead, is by wage and reward for doing His word at the end. The inheritance of the everlasting kingdom of Christ is by reward. (Col 3:24) It's the promised reward for doing those things necessary in this life to never fall from grace unto the end. (2 Peter 1)

The wage and reward of sinning unto death, is resurrection unto everlasting shame. (Rom 6) Sinful works has wages, and so do righteous works.

Christians in this life can be saved by their own faith alone, and teach whole doctrines and gospels for it, but that all ends in the grave. The Bible teaches only those obeying Jesus in the end will win the crown of eternal salvation. (Heb 5:9)(Phil 3:8)(1 Cor 9)

No one will be able to resurrect their dead bodies unto life by their own faith alone, just because they currently save themselves by it in this life.



The faith of Jesus sown in the heart by hearing the gospel is the free gift. Salvation and Justification by that gift, is by exercising that gift and obeying His faith.

That not of ourselves is faith, not grace nor salvation.

Our own faith alone is of ourselves. It is our own gift to ourselves. It's not the gift of the faith of Jesus.

Christians who trust in their own faith alone without doing the word, and trusting in their own gift of faith to themselves by their own free will.

Then your saved by works.. You better be perfect..

Paul asled the galations church if they were fools thinking the exact same way you do. That we are saved initially by the spirit. But must perfect it in th flesh (works)

Again i would study Gal 3