False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[Davy]

"except there come a falling away first", not afterwards. Again, the apostasy is in full swing now. COVID-19 really propelled this apostasy further.

"Davis and Graham write in their book, “The Great Dechurching: Who’s Leaving, Why Are They Going, and What Will It Take to Bring Them Back?” that “more people have left the church in the last 25 years than all the new people who became Christians from the First Great Awakening, Second Great Awakening, and Billy Graham crusades combined.” What does the falling away look like? It looks like this, but even worse than you think it is. Let me explain.“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJB)" - The 'Great Dechurching'

Nope. You have to consider Apostle Paul's full message there in the 2 Thess.2:3-4 verses, for they are connected, including the idea of the "strong delusion" he mentions in a later verse.

Today's Churches that are not... warning about the coming "man of sin" as one with supernatural power of miracles and wonders, to actually play God, are deceived and not prepared to make a stand for Christ against that coming false Messiah.

If you ask your preacher about the coming false Messiah, and all they can say is that it's the pope, or that he is already here, or something else other than... what Apostle Paul said there in 2 Thess.2, then that preacher is deceived and is deceiving his whole congregation for the future great apostasy of believing that coming false Messiah is Christ having returned.

That is exactly what the devil's false pre-trib rapture theory is preparing the deceived for, to fall away in worship to that coming false Messiah that will work supernatural wonders and miracles on earth, and claim to be Jesus Christ.

 

[Hobie]

Not the one Paul wrote about because it is tied to the revealing of the man of sin also known as the AC. The falling away is to fall from Christ to this false christ.

General apostasy existed long ago and exists now but there is a specific one, where a group of Christians who don't have enough "oil" will fall away in the darkness of the tribulation.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This Apostasy happens in the timeframe that the AC claims to be god openly to the whole world.

I guess you missed what already has come into the church..

The term has been used to describe the perceived fallen state of traditional Christianity, especially the Catholic Church, because they claim it changed the doctrines of the early church and allowed traditional Greco-Roman culture (i.e., Greco-Roman mysteries, deities of solar monism such as Mithras and Sol Invictus, pagan festivals and Mithraic sun worship and idol worship) into the church on its own perception of authority.[5] Great Apostasy - Wikipedia

 

[07-07-07]

If the Rapture is post-tribulation, why is there a need for an Angel to proclaim the gospel throughout the world when the Church would be on the earth to do that, like is the case now?

Revelation 14
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
[7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

[The Light]

Well that statement is just IGNORANT. God's Word is given by The Holy Spirit, and no Bible Scripture will contradict itself.

So simply ignoring Bible Scripture like Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 where Jesus showed His coming to gather His saints is AFTER THE TRIBULATION, is not going to make that Scripture go away.

Yeah, it sure is, which is why YOU... keep skirting the Truth of the Matthew 24:29-31 Scripture where Jesus showed His coming to gather His saints is AFTER... THE TRIBULATION.

Your ignorance is not understanding that tribulation is not the wrath of God.

Jesus comes for the Church before the seals are opened.
Jesus comes for the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation.
Then there is a great multitude in heaven which we see at the marriage supper.
Then the armies of heaven return to the earth and Christ sets up His kingdom.

 

[The Light]

If the Rapture is post-tribulation, why is there a need for an Angel to proclaim the gospel throughout the world when the Church would be on the earth to do that, like is the case now?

Revelation 14
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
[7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

There are two raptures. The first is the Church before the seals are opened. Secret pretribulation rapture. The second rapture is the gathering from heaven and earth. It occurs at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation. Then the wrath of God begins as the 7th seal is opened containing the trumpets of wrath. Then the great multitude is in heaven during the wrath of God and return with Him as the armies of heaven to set up His kingdom.

 

[David in NJ]

If the Rapture is post-tribulation, why is there a need for an Angel to proclaim the gospel throughout the world when the Church would be on the earth to do that, like is the case now?

Revelation 14
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
[7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Because of this: "And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.

 

[David in NJ]

If the Rapture is post-tribulation, why is there a need for an Angel to proclaim the gospel throughout the world when the Church would be on the earth to do that, like is the case now?

Revelation 14
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
[7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Here are the two questions you need to ask yourself:

JESUS says His Coming and our gathering is "immediately after the tribulation of those days"
Question #1 - Since JESUS says Post-Trib, why are we saying 'pre-trib' ?

JESUS says we are to believe every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God (Matt 4:4)
Question #2 - Pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of God so why do we believe in something that God never spoke?

 

[The Light]

Here are the two questions you need to ask yourself:

JESUS says His Coming and our gathering is "immediately after the tribulation of those days"
Question #1 - Since JESUS says Post-Trib, why are we saying 'pre-trib' ?

Because there are two raptures, one pretrib and one post trib.

The real question is when Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation and before the 7th seal is opened, which is post trib. Why do you think that Jesus comes only at the end of wrath which is post wrath? Do you not yet understand the difference between tribulation and the wrath of God?

JESUS says we are to believe every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God (Matt 4:4)
Question #2 - Pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of God so why do we believe in something that God never spoke?

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[Timtofly]

Here are the two questions you need to ask yourself:

JESUS says His Coming and our gathering is "immediately after the tribulation of those days"
Question #1 - Since JESUS says Post-Trib, why are we saying 'pre-trib' ?

JESUS says we are to believe every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God (Matt 4:4)
Question #2 - Pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of God so why do we believe in something that God never spoke?

The tribulation of those days started at Pentecost. Peter was thrown into prison and Stephen was martyred. That tribulation was promised to the church nonstop for the last 1993 years.

Of course the Second Coming did not happen prior to Pentecost, pre-trib of those days.

The Second Coming happens pre-Jacob's trouble. Jacob's trouble is the GT and Jesus and His angels are on the earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. The sheep and goats are removed during the first 6 Trumpets. The tares and wheat are removed during the 7 Thunders. The 7th Trumpet declares the final harvest is over.

 

[David in NJ]

The tribulation of those days started at Pentecost. Peter was thrown into prison and Stephen was martyred. That tribulation was promised to the church nonstop for the last 1993 years.

Of course the Second Coming did not happen prior to Pentecost, pre-trib of those days.

The Second Coming happens pre-Jacob's trouble. Jacob's trouble is the GT and Jesus and His angels are on the earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. The sheep and goats are removed during the first 6 Trumpets. The tares and wheat are removed during the 7 Thunders. The 7th Trumpet declares the final harvest is over.

@Timtofly says: "The Second Coming happens pre-Jacob's trouble."

That is NOT found in scripture.

 

[David in NJ]

Because there are two raptures, one pretrib and one post trib.

The real question is when Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation and before the 7th seal is opened, which is post trib. Why do you think that Jesus comes only at the end of wrath which is post wrath? Do you not yet understand the difference between tribulation and the wrath of God?


Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

NEVER, not even once, is there a declaration of "two raptures" found in scripture.

 

[The Light]

NEVER, not even once, is there a declaration of "two raptures" found in scripture.

There is a grain harvest and a fruit harvest. After the rapture of the Church, the grain harvest what will Israel say?

Jeremiah 8
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

They will know they missed the first harvest. It was God's intent that they be the first harvest but they served another God. The fathers of the Jews were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The fig tree has two harvests.

As the Word says, the fathers of the Jews were to be the firstftuits of the first harvest. Instead, the Gentiles become the first harvest. Part of Israel cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in with the rapture of the Church. We are told not to be ignorant of this.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

After the Church is raptured, there must be first fruits of the second harvest.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

This harvest, the second harvest, is the gathering from heaven and earth which occurs at the 6th seal BEFORE wrath.

I could go on and on, but if the blind can't see, they can't see. If you walk without understanding, that's just the way it is. It's up to you to seek.

 

[David in NJ]

There is a grain harvest and a fruit harvest. After the rapture of the Church, the grain harvest what will Israel say?

Jeremiah 8
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

They will know they missed the first harvest. It was God's intent that they be the first harvest but they served another God. The fathers of the Jews were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The fig tree has two harvests.

As the Word says, the fathers of the Jews were to be the firstftuits of the first harvest. Instead, the Gentiles become the first harvest. Part of Israel cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in with the rapture of the Church. We are told not to be ignorant of this.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

After the Church is raptured, there must be first fruits of the second harvest.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

This harvest, the second harvest, is the gathering from heaven and earth which occurs at the 6th seal BEFORE wrath.

I could go on and on, but if the blind can't see, they can't see. If you walk without understanding, that's just the way it is. It's up to you to seek.

JESUS said there is only One Harvest.

The 144k are symbolic of the Bride of Christ composed of Jew and Gentile = it even states this in Revelation.

 

[The Light]

JESUS said there is only One Harvest.

The 144k are symbolic of the Bride of Christ composed of Jew and Gentile = it even states this in Revelation.

Chapter and verse, so I can clear up your misunderstanding?

Yes, Gentiles and Jews. Two harvests. Jacob had two brides.

 

[ewq1938]

I guess you missed what already has come into the church..

I guess you missed when I addressed that. There is a final and greater form of Apostasy coming and it is directly related to the appearance of "AC that shall come".

 

[Davy]

I guess you missed what already has come into the church..

The term has been used to describe the perceived fallen state of traditional Christianity, especially the Catholic Church, because they claim it changed the doctrines of the early church and allowed traditional Greco-Roman culture (i.e., Greco-Roman mysteries, deities of solar monism such as Mithras and Sol Invictus, pagan festivals and Mithraic sun worship and idol worship) into the church on its own perception of authority.[5] Great Apostasy - Wikipedia

You... are the one missing it.

The pagan 'mystery schools' had existed long... before Christ Jesus came to die on the cross, even going back to ancient Sumer-Babylon. So you cannot just try to pin Apostle Paul's great apostasy warning of 2 Thessalonians 2 on that old pagan working, even today, with its modern secret fraternities that still teach those old 'mysteries'.

Apostle Paul linked the great falling away (Greek apostasia, meaning apostasy) with that coming "man of sin" and the signs, wonders, and miracles he will do to deceive the whole world with his claiming to be God.

And in case you didn't know, the secret initiate fraternities that are the real shakers behind a one world government, plan to unleash their full Luciferian doctrines upon the whole world once they have subdued ALL religions for the coming Antichrist's takeover of all religious worship, just like Apostle Paul said in 2 Thess.2:4, over all that is called God, or that is worshiped.

 

[07-07-07]

There are two raptures. The first is the Church before the seals are opened. Secret pretribulation rapture. The second rapture is the gathering from heaven and earth. It occurs at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation. Then the wrath of God begins as the 7th seal is opened containing the trumpets of wrath. Then the great multitude is in heaven during the wrath of God and return with Him as the armies of heaven to set up His kingdom.

Because of this: "And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.

Here are the two questions you need to ask yourself:

JESUS says His Coming and our gathering is "immediately after the tribulation of those days"
Question #1 - Since JESUS says Post-Trib, why are we saying 'pre-trib' ?

JESUS says we are to believe every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God (Matt 4:4)
Question #2 - Pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of God so why do we believe in something that God never spoke?

None of these answered the question. Here it is again: If the Church is in the world during the great tribulation, why would an Angel need to proclaim the gospel, as that's what the Church's mission is?

 

[ewq1938]

None of these answered the question. Here it is again: If the Church is in the world during the great tribulation, why would an Angel need to proclaim the gospel, as that's what the Church's mission is?

Just because the church proclaims the gospel does not mean an angel can't. The church is in the trib, the OD and all relevant parts of Rev show this. The trib is trib against the church. That is the entire purpose of the trib. If there is no church present, trib cannot even take place.

 

[The Light]

None of these answered the question. Here it is again: If the Church is in the world during the great tribulation, why would an Angel need to proclaim the gospel, as that's what the Church's mission is?

The Church is already in heaven when the angel is proclaiming the Gospel. God has turned His attention to part of Israel, the seed of the woman after the Church is in heaven.

This is the reason that there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest.

The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened.

 

[07-07-07]

Just because the church proclaims the gospel does not mean an angel can't. The church is in the trib, the OD and all relevant parts of Rev show this. The trib is trib against the church. That is the entire purpose of the trib. If there is no church present, trib cannot even take place.

Second question: Why is the Book of Revelation addressed to the seven churches, yet there is no further mention of them after Chapter three, except briefly at the end (Rev. 22:16)?