Apostasy

[GRACE ambassador]

Judas is the classic example of an apostate - one who abandons the faith he once held.

Precious friend, @Johann, you didn't say "Judas was a believer, then he was lost"
( the faith he once held ), did you?:

What Saith The Scripture?:

Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe Not. For Jesus Knew from​

the beginning who they were that believed Not, and who should betray Him.​

​

Joh_6:70 Jesus Answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you ​

is a devil?​

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believing, then unbelieving? Under Grace, Scripture Also Disagrees!

This Denies The "Foreknowledge / Choosing / Knowledge" of God:

(a) "God’s Sure Foundation Has This Seal”:

“The Lord Knoweth them that Are His!..." (2 Timothy 2:19),
The "Truly saved," Correct?

(b) How Long Has "The Lord Known them that Are His Own"?
(Ephesians 1:4-6) = Always, Correct?

(c) For those who are lost, how is it That The Lord Said Unto them:
“I Never Knew you”? (Matthew 7:21-23) = Never, Correct?

Thus Precious friend, the apostates who 'depart from the faith,' are actually unbelievers who
may "have knowledge" of Jesus Christ, and are participating in religious works, but have
never actually 'repented and believed.' When Finally 'fed up' with ↑, do they then depart?

Otherwise, we would have to deny ( Satan's 'device'? ) about
12-Dozen Plain and Clear Scriptures:

God's Operation On All HIS New-born babes In Christ!
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God's Eternal Assurance!

Amen.

 

[Godslittleservant]

One more thing sister ,The grace of God not of works that we may boast but the work of God to save us is also including Baptism in that grace for it is in the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ that we are born again as Paul teaches not of work is in relation to works of the old law Not the work of baptism in Christ for in that baptism it is God at work not man we are just submitting ourselves so God can cleanse us with the blood of Christ through his sacrifice on the cross it is where we are buried with Christ and arise with Christ into a new life in the spirit.

 

[Godslittleservant]

baptising with the one same one that is of water and spirit?

By the Spiritual work of God he buries us in the water to remove the sin of our life and replaces us in the spirit?

Can you please address this...what does this mean?...I guess it’s your own interpretation is it?ait

Well. I did ask....LOL.

This is speaking of the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Acts 2:38 the one that John foretold of Jesus baptizing with the one same one that is of water and spirit that Jesus told Nicodemus of to be born of water and of spirit. It is where

OK let me try again the baptism in Christ name of Acts 2:38 is the one that Paul is addressing in Romans 6:3ff it is also the one Jesus was telling Nicodemus about it explains How one is born again. Just as Jesus told Nicodemus you must be born of water and of spirit Paul explains how that is done in the baptism in Christ name it is by Gods work God is cleansing you in the blood shed for you on the cross by burying you in the water (no significance if not by faith in Gods working) but where he chose to connect us to Christ at the cross and then He raises up out of the watery grave to a newness of life in Christ.

You asked if I could address "By the Spiritual work of God he buries us in the water to remove the sin of our life and replaces us in the spirit?"
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.see the underlined portion it says that it is God doing the work in the baptism in Christ name that this is addressing
We are buried in the water as Christ was buried in the tomb we are being washed by the blood then God raises us from the watery grave into newness of life we are now free from the death punishment of sin more a slave to sin but we know walk in the spirit as newness in Christ we no longer are a slave to sin but now are under grace

That is what he is saying in verses 6-17

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Act 2

 

[Ritajanice]

You asked if I could address "By the Spiritual work of God he buries us in the water to remove the sin of our life and replaces us in the spirit?"

Water cannot remove our sins...only God can do that through the Holy Spirit....we must be birthed by the Spirit, which is supernatural...

Water baptism is a symbol of Jesus Christ's death, burial and resurrection. We enter the water as a symbol of entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ, coming just as we are, clothed in our old life with all of its habits, mindsets and behaviours.

That is my belief and your belief is no more valid than mine or anyone else’s.

We believe differently...period.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

That is my belief and your belief is no more valid than mine or anyone else’s.

For my 3rd alternate valid / invalid belief, please see:

Divider Poll
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13 Bible baptisms

If they may be interest to anyone, and hopefully addressing the confusion thereof?

Amen.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Water cannot remove our sins...only God can do that through the Holy Spirit....we must be birthed by the Spirit, which is supernatural...

Water baptism is a symbol of Jesus Christ's death, burial and resurrection. We enter the water as a symbol of entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ, coming just as we are, clothed in our old life with all of its habits, mindsets and behaviours.

That is my belief and your belief is no more valid than mine or anyone else’s.

We believe differently...period.

Yes that is your interpretation and I have mine but sadly this is a salvation issue and we can not both be right so we must decide what God said on the matter for there is only one means of salvation . You might find this hard to believe But I agree with you in the way you have stated that water cannot remove our sin in and by itself.

God does work in baptism as seen in Romans but if you do not have faith in his word that the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as it is stated in scripture you are right it does no no go because you do not believe Gods word on the matter Bur if you trust God in his word as to what he has said then yes water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ dies remit sin and give the spirit Act 2 and romans 6 is not the only place that says it is what God said.

God does his work of redemption in the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ it is what the letter to the Romans in what we call chapter six explains it is the spiritual baptism because God is at work just as he said in his holy word.

You say must be birth by the spirit which is supernatural and I ask just how much more supernatural can it get than what is happening in Romans 6

You say Water baptism is a symbol of Jesus Christ's death, burial and resurrection. We enter the water as a symbol of entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ, coming just as we are, clothed in our old life with all of its habits, mindsets and behaviours.

I say I do not find this in scripture can you please provide book chapter and verse to back you claim

I really think we need to make sure our beliefs align with God it really matters not what we believe if it not aligned with the scripture we should be able to go to book chapter and verse and say it is recorded here

Yes as I said earlier we are not united in Gods word so we must search the scriptures to speak the oracles of God it matters not what we want to believe we have to believe what God said for he is not a respecter of persons but all live by one word and that is Gods

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes that is your interpretation and I have mine but sadly this is a salvation issue and we can not both be right so we must decide what God said on the matter for there is only one means of salvation . You might find this hard to believe But I agree with you in the way you have stated that water cannot remove our sin in and by itself.

God does work in baptism as seen in Romans but if you do not have faith in his word that the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as it is stated in scripture you are right it does no no go because you do not believe Gods word on the matter Bur if you trust God in his word as to what he has said then yes water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ dies remit sin and give the spirit Act 2 and romans 6 is not the only place that says it is what God said.

God does his work of redemption in the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ it is what the letter to the Romans in what we call chapter six explains it is the spiritual baptism because God is at work just as he said in his holy word.

You say must be birth by the spirit which is supernatural and I ask just how much more supernatural can it get than what is happening in Romans 6

You say Water baptism is a symbol of Jesus Christ's death, burial and resurrection. We enter the water as a symbol of entering into a relationship with Jesus Christ, coming just as we are, clothed in our old life with all of its habits, mindsets and behaviours.

I say I do not find this in scripture can you please provide book chapter and verse to back you claim

I really think we need to make sure our beliefs align with God it really matters not what we believe if it not aligned with the scripture we should be able to go to book chapter and verse and say it is recorded here

Yes as I said earlier we are not united in Gods word so we must search the scriptures to speak the oracles of God it matters not what we want to believe we have to believe what God said for he is not a respecter of persons but all live by one word and that is Gods

Behold and I have posted walls of scripture to you...Behold is also a “ Teacher “ an anointed Teacher....which you have ignored, when he was only trying to help you.

Nowhere in scripture does water baptism birth anyone in the Spirit....it’s just a declaration of our obedience to the word of God....anyone imo, who has been birthed in the Spirit would know

 

[Ritajanice]

This is speaking of the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Acts 2:38 the one that John foretold of Jesus baptizing with the one same one that is of water and spirit that Jesus told Nicodemus of to be born of water and of spirit. It is where as Paul says is into his death this is where we join Christ at the cross where in by the spiritual work of God he buries us in the water to remove the sin of our life and replaces us in the spirit gives the indwelling spirit as a deposit for eternal life that as Christ was raised from the grave we to are raised from the watery grave into a newness of life in the

We join Christ at the cross where in by the spiritual work of God he buries us in the water to remove the sin of our life and replaces us in the spirit gives the indwelling spirit as a deposit for eternal life that as Christ was raised from the grave we to are raised from the watery grave into a newness of life in the spirit Now that we have obeyed from the heart this form of teaching that Peter Paul and all others was spreading the gospel of Christ we have been free from the power of sin and made Alive in the spirit to walk in the spirit as Christ.

Your words above.....which with respect,imo, full of confusion.....

Yet the word of God says below...that is how we are Born Again/ regenerated/ Birthed in the Spirit./ Born of the Spirit........the Living word of God....therefore your interpretation is wrong...it’s not written in the word.

The word of God doesn’t need anything added to it and that is what you have done...when I asked for interpretation ....you gave me a wall of your own understanding....a wall of text...imo....nothing wrong in that as we are all figuring the word of God out...hopefully with the Holy Spirit as our helper and guide....we can’t understand scripture without him....

John 3:8​

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

 

[Godslittleservant]

Behold and I have posted walls of scripture to you...Behold is also a “ Teacher “ an anointed Teacher....which you have ignored, when he was only trying to help you.

Nowhere in scripture does water baptism birth anyone in the Spirit....it’s just a declaration of our obedience to the word of God....anyone imo, who has been birthed in the Spirit would know

Yes you are very well my be but so am I and I have shown you over and over how your teaching is false when put up against scripture sorry you cannot see that. You refuse to take off the blinders but I realize that is exactly what you think of me so we fail to see who is correct sorry I could not do a better job of teaching so I could open your eyes to the truth in Gods word I failed you my dear sister.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes you are very well my be but so am I and I have shown you over and over how your teaching is false when put up against scripture sorry you cannot see that. You refuse to take off the blinders but I realize that is exactly what you think of me so we fail to see who is correct sorry I could not do a better job of teaching so I could open your eyes to the truth in Gods word I failed you my dear sister.

“YOU” my dear man...have shown us nothing...only the Spirit of God can show us...do you understand what that means?

◄ 1 Corinthians 2:10 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. New Living Translation But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets. English Standard Version these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

 

[Godslittleservant]

We join Christ at the cross where in by the spiritual work of God he buries us in the water to remove the sin of our life and replaces us in the spirit gives the indwelling spirit as a deposit for eternal life that as Christ was raised from the grave we to are raised from the watery grave into a newness of life in the spirit Now that we have obeyed from the heart this form of teaching that Peter Paul and all others was spreading the gospel of Christ we have been free from the power of sin and made Alive in the spirit to walk in the spirit as Christ.

Your words above.....which with respect,imo, full of confusion.....

Yet the word of God says below...that is how we are Born Again/ regenerated/ Birthed in the Spirit./ Born of the Spirit........the Living word of God....therefore your interpretation is wrong...it’s not written in the word.

The word of God doesn’t need anything added to it and that is what you have done...when I asked for interpretation ....you gave me a wall of your own understanding....a wall of text...imo....nothing wrong in that as we are all figuring the word of God out...hopefully with the Holy Spirit as our helper and guide....we can’t understand scripture without him....

John 3:8​

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

with all due respect my dear sister in Christ I gave you the gospel and it is more than John 3:8

God said our road to salvation is in hearing the gospel You find that is romans 10 then he says you have to believe also in romans 10 and various other verses through out the word He also say you must repent in Acts and through out the word He says you must confess Jesus as Lord in romans and throughout the word He says you must be baptized in the name of Christ in Act several places and through out the world

There is no stand alone scripture that gives the full plan of salvation we must take all that God has said on the matter the closest we come to having it all combined for us it in Acts 2 where Peter preached the full complete gospel for the first time when he opened the doors to the kingdom and God started adding those being saved so you get the answer to how God added to the church in Acts 2

I really do not know why you can not see this it is spelled out in elementary terms.

 

[Ritajanice]

with all due respect my dear sister in Christ I gave you the gospel and it is more than John 3:8

God said our road to salvation is in hearing the gospel You find that is romans 10 then he says you have to believe also in romans 10 and various other verses through out the word He also say you must repent in Acts and through out the word He says you must confess Jesus as Lord in romans and throughout the word He says you must be baptized in the name of Christ in Act several places and through out the world

You gave me your understanding of the Gospel and it’s interpretation, all from you.

I gave you how God births us in the Spirit...you dismissed it..

There is no stand alone scripture that gives the full plan of salvation we must take all that God has said on the matter the closest we come to having it all combined for us it in Acts 2 where Peter preached the full complete gospel for the first when he opened the doors to the kingdom and God started adding those being save so you get the answer to how God added in Acts 2

I really do not know why you can not see this it is spelled out in elementary terms.

You are religious imo..you aren’t in the Spirit and once again you evaded my question to you.

You are reading scripture from your own understanding..you aren’t reading and understanding by the Holy Spirit..what does that mean?

 

[Ritajanice]

God said our road to salvation is in hearing the gospel .

Tell me how did you hear the word of God?

 

[Godslittleservant]

You gave me your understanding of the Gospel and it’s interpretation, all from you.

I gave you how God births us in the Spirit...you dismissed it..

You are religious imo..you aren’t in the Spirit and once again you evaded my question to you.

You are reading scripture from your own understanding..you aren’t reading and understanding by the Holy Spirit..what does that mean?

Why should I give you answers you reject every one simply because you have your mind made up and nothing can penetrate the hardness of your heart

You gave me only your interpretation of what you have determined to be how God redeems us but it is contrary to scripture it lacks the spirits guidance but reeks of man made theology so yes I reject it You are religious imo..you aren’t in the Spirit
I feel You are reading scripture from your own understanding..you aren’t reading and understanding by the Holy Spirit..what does that mean?

 

[Ritajanice]

Why should I give you answers you reject every one simply because you have your mind made up and nothing can penetrate the hardness of your heart

No I haven’t.

You gave me only your interpretation of what you have determined to be how God redeems us but it is contrary to scripture it lacks the spirits guidance but reeks of man made theology so yes I reject it You are religious imo..you aren’t in the Spirit
I feel You are reading scripture from your own understanding..you aren’t reading and understanding by the Holy Spirit..what does that mean?

I asked you that question...what does being led by the Spirit mean?

Define a Born Again...who is a Born Again?

You can’t answer my question because you don’t understand them...nothing wrong in that...

What is God saying here?..below...very easy to understand if you are Born Again...how do we know we are Born again?

John 3:8​

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Tell me how did you hear the word of God?

Romans 10:14,15
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

I guess this is also false is that what you are going to tell me. I read Gods word and the spirit helps me understand and Gods sends his messenger to help me understand but warns me to test the spirits for there are false teachers out there that have the itchy ear syndrome

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans 10:14,15
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

I guess this is also false is that what you are going to tell me. I read Gods word and the spirit helps me understand and Gods sends his messenger to help me understand but warns me to test the spirits for there are false teachers out there that have the itchy ear syndrome

We can all quote scripture.
How did you believe in God?
How did you hear?

Where inside you ,did you hear the word of God?

Or did you just read his word , that you just posted?

 

[Godslittleservant]

“YOU” my dear man...have shown us nothing...only the Spirit of God can show us...do you understand what that means?

◄ 1 Corinthians 2:10 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. New Living Translation But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets. English Standard Version these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

Did you ever stop to consider that the spirit is drawing you to me so you can see what the spirit is trying to get you to see or are you so puffed up that you are actually quenching the spirit and not allowing him to show you because you think you know it all

 

[Ritajanice]

Did you ever stop to consider that the spirit is drawing you to me so you can see what the spirit is trying to get you to see or are you so puffed up that you are actually quenching the spirit and not allowing him to show you because you think you know it all

Drawing me to you, are you being serious?

Please answer my question..where inside you, did you hear the word of God?

You gave me scripture...anyone can do that...I’ve asked you a very easy question?

 

[Godslittleservant]

No I haven’t.

I asked you that question...what does being led by the Spirit mean?

Define a Born Again...who is a Born Again?

You can’t answer my question because you don’t understand them...nothing wrong in that...

What is God saying here?..below...very easy to understand if you are Born Again...how do we know we are Born again?

John 3:8​

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

What is God saying here?..below...very easy to understand if you are Born Again...how do we know we are Born again?
the way we know we are born again is because we will be showing the fruits of the spirit
Galations 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

You said Define a Born Again...who is a Born Again?
I did you will not acept it your blinders will not allow you to see and understand I have gave many many answers on this go back and reread but hits time do it with a heart for the truth and stop quenching the spirit see what the spirit is trying to get you to see

You can’t answer my question because you don’t understand them...nothing wrong in that...
I have answered your questions you just don't want to hear your heart is hardened you are quenching the spirit of truth

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit
Jesus’ help of Nicodemus to believe and understand the invisible power of the new birth a baptismal ceremony can be seen; but the forgiveness, clean conscience, and receiving the Spirit cannot be seen. Like the powerful wind, though invisible, its power is nevertheless profound.
Jesus tells him that he should not reject a doctrine merely because he could not understand it. Neither could the wind be seen, but its effects were well known, and no one doubted the existence or power of the agent
Nicodemus, schooled in all the Mosaic ritual, found the concept of a new birth difficult to accept
If the rite of baptism provided the moment and occasion of the spiritual result, we should know whence it came and whither it went. We might not know how, but we should know WHEN and WHENCE the spiritual change took place. But this knowledge is distinctly negatived by Christ who herein declares the moment of the spiritual birth to be lost or hidden to God

People do know WHEN the wind is blowing; and Christ also revealed the WHEN of the new birth; it is WHEN we are baptized into Christ. As Paul said, "Being THEN made free from sin" (Romans 6:17,18 KJV), that is, WHEN we have been baptized. Paul was discussing Christian baptism in that passage, and he did not hesitate to make the Christian’s baptism the exact moment, the THEN of his being made free from sin and becoming a servant of righteousness. Coffman Commentary for help understanding