'No Immortal Soul'? (Challenge)

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Wrangler

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but people desire to fight, via verse supports Ha, or on and on.
Fighting among ourselves is different from studying, which is all that science means. Devotional reading is a systematic method of knowing the Bible. It is a scientific approach, by definition.

sci·ence
2.
A systematic method or body of knowledge in a given area:

I'm not sure why you are fighting a systemtatic method (a scientific approach) of Bible study applied to your current inquiry about the nature of a soul?

Some say science is antagonistic toward religion. But don't confuse people with ideas. Christians have been the biggest advocates for education, in general, and science, in particular, for millenia. We study the Bible to know it for ourselves. The hypothesis testing is for ourselves - not merely to win an argument. Do you believe Deuteronomy 6:6-8 but not put it into practice? Of course not!

The nature of a soul is esoteric. It is not a salvation issue. I hope we agree on this?


6 Memorize his laws 7 and tell them to your children over and over again. Talk about them all the time, whether you're at home or walking along the road or going to bed at night, or getting up in the morning. 8 Write down copies and tie them to your wrists and foreheads to help you obey them.
Deuteronomy 6:6-8 (CEV)
 

MatthewG

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Fighting among ourselves is different from studying, which is all that science means. Devotional reading is a systematic method of knowing the Bible. It is a scientific approach, by definition.



I'm not sure why you are fighting a systemtatic method (a scientific approach) of Bible study applied to your current inquiry about the nature of a soul?

Some say science is antagonistic toward religion. But don't confuse people with ideas. Christians have been the biggest advocates for education, in general, and science, in particular, for millenia. We study the Bible to know it for ourselves. The hypothesis testing is for ourselves - not merely to win an argument. Do you believe Deuteronomy 6:6-8 but not put it into practice? Of course not!

The nature of a soul is esoteric. It is not a salvation issue. I hope we agree on this?


6 Memorize his laws 7 and tell them to your children over and over again. Talk about them all the time, whether you're at home or walking along the road or going to bed at night, or getting up in the morning. 8 Write down copies and tie them to your wrists and foreheads to help you obey them.
Deuteronomy 6:6-8 (CEV)


Wrangler, you are fine in however you decide to see it. I just disagree with you concerning science proves faith. Nothing was mentioned about anything being a salvation issue. I do not mind people using science and it is useful to help in the study of certain things, if one wants too. There is nothing wrong with that.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Science can't prove faith.

Science.... is like being a fish!

To a fish... the entire universe is water. That's all that they can see is water since they live in water and cannot see beyond the lake or pond in which they live.

But, there are these other fishes that swim by sometimes that tell a different story... they say they were swimming along one day and that saw some food floating in front of them on a hook... they were hungry so they took a bite.

And, BOOM.... they were yanked up out of the water, outside of the pond and there were people out there and dry land and air and birds and dogs and other freaky creatures they had never seen before!

And of course all the other fish think these fishes are nuts, claiming there's another world outside of the pond in which they all live where the science of the fishes have established long ago that the universe is made of water and there is nothing but water cause... they can see nuthin but water!

This is exactly how science is.... they draw all their conclusions based on limited sight. They are limited to the physical realm in which we live and have no choice but to go by the five physical senses known as taste, smell, touch, hearing, and sight.

To science, if it cannot be accessed by these 5 senses, then they don't exist.... so just like the fish they think this natural physical world in which we live is reality and there is nothing beyond what we can taste, smell, touch, hear, or see.

This is why God's Word says.... true Christians live by faith, not by sight or any of the senses. (2 Corinthians 5:7)

So much for science being accurate and knowing all things as they present themselves!
 

BlessedPeace

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Genesis 3:19
By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
Ecclesiastes 12:7 ...then the dust [out of which God made man's body] will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
 

Ghada

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Go and read the account of the creation of Man; it is clear Adam became a living soul, he did not receive a soul.
Go and read my post, and show where I say so.

In any case. The answer to the question of 'No immortal soul' is no.
 

Ghada

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'No Immortal Soul'?​


No immortal soul means no soul. Talking about a 'mortal soul' is only the theological lip-service side of honest natural men, that simply say there is no soul nor spirit.

We can call the body a soul all we wish, and it's still just a body. It's only a meaningless play of words.

It's also the hypocritical theological version of natural man that denies eternal judgement with damnation or life.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

No one talking about a mortal soul, is talking about the doctrine of Christ in the Bible.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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No immortal soul means no soul.

Actually it is the false claim that the soul does not live on forever.

Animals all have a soul, but when they die, their soul ceases to exist and they are no more conscience or aware as their soul has been extinguished.

This is not the case with the soul of mankind who was created in God's image and has an ever living spirit within his soul... which causes the soul to live on forever and ever just like God will live on forever.

If the man had not been created in God's image, then man's soud would not live on forever.... and as such there would be no need for Jesus to go to the Cross to bring forth God's plan of salvation.

Man's soul will in fact live on forever... all of us will be conscience and awake and aware for all eternity... in either Heaven or hell.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Just for the record, what is your science background?

The Word of the Lord is far more advanced than science could ever attain to... who needs a partial picture when they can go to God's Word and see the entire picture?

I know enough about science to know that it's mostly experimentation and speculation... which is WHY science fails so often... that and they reject God's Word... Jesus Christ, the Creator! (that's really slow ya know)

The whole covid debacle is a great example of the failures of science... I went above and beyond what science knows and has access to and went to God's Word and used the authority only found IN Christ and I forbid covid to come upon me when everyone around me had it!

Science has no ability to do this... and they can't even figure out how to give mankind peace in his heart to stop wars and crime and all that.

Oh science, where art thou? laughing6.gif
 

Aunty Jane

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Actually it is the false claim that the soul does not live on forever.

Animals all have a soul, but when they die, their soul ceases to exist and they are no more conscience or aware as their soul has been extinguished.
Again, I see confusion with the words “soul” and “spirit”.....they are not one and the same thing.
When a soul dies, it is because the body has ceased to function. The soul cannot live without a body. The spirit is what animates a soul, just as God “breathed the breath (spirit) of life” into Adam who then “became a living soul”.

What is the opposite of a living soul? What was Adam before God started him breathing? He was not a soul until he breathed. When breathing stops, oxygen can no longer keep the cells alive, so the organism dies...both man and animal have the same fate, but that was not the way it started. (Eccl 3:18-20)
This is not the case with the soul of mankind who was created in God's image and has an ever living spirit within his soul... which causes the soul to live on forever and ever just like God will live on forever.
The spiritual nature of man has a natural propensity to worship and to appreciate the beauty and function of creation. Animals by and large, just take their life and environment for granted because they are not made in God’s image. You never see animals gazing at a sunset or a beautiful vista with appreciation....all they see before them is the food God created for them.

The “spirit” in man can mean a few different things in the scriptures but sadly, few bother to check and see what those different things mean....

The Hebrew word “ruʹach” and the Greek word “pneuʹma”, often translated “spirit,” have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and gives evidence of force in motion.

The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired expressions originating from an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s active force, or holy spirit. (Exodus 35:21; Psalm 104:29; Matthew 12:43; Luke 11:13)
If the man had not been created in God's image, then man's soud would not live on forever.... and as such there would be no need for Jesus to go to the Cross to bring forth God's plan of salvation.
It wasn’t just that man was created in God’s image, he was created 100% mortal, but with a guarantee of “everlasting life” not “immortality”....there is a big difference. It was Adam’s sin that robbed his children of access to the only thing God created in the garden to extend their mortal lives....”the tree of life”. Without the tree of life, and sin entering into their mortal flesh, death was inevitable. (Genesis 3:22-24) Only God could rescue them by sending someone to cancel that awful debt and redeem them with his own life.
Man's soul will in fact live on forever... all of us will be conscience and awake and aware for all eternity... in either Heaven or hell.
Actually, the Bible never held out a “heaven or hell” scenario. Adam was never told of such places.
He was told that if he sinned he would “die and return to the dust”...nothing more. (Gen 3:19)

There is actually no “heaven or hell” destination for mankind in the Bible...that idea was created by the “weeds” whom Jesus said would be planted by the devil....creating a counterfeit “Christianity” that would lead the majority off on the wrong path. (Matthew 7:13-14)
The devil is the one who said “you surely will not die” when God said that they surely would....so who lied?

Death is the end of this life....the one that mankind have endured with so much grief from God’s permission of the devil’s rulership over the human race.....but with good reason. God’s children both spirit sons and earthly ones had to learn of the consequence of abusing their free will.....they could not be told, so they had to be shown where that leads in real life. We have lived that reality in all of our history, creating precedents that will last for all eternity to come. No rebel will ever be able to challenge God’s rightful Sovereignty again.

Acts 14:16-17...in Paul’s witness to those of the nations who wanted to sacrifice to the apostles because of a miracle they saw....he said....
In past generations he permitted all the nations to go on in their ways, 17 although he did not leave himself without witness in that he did good, giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying you with food and filling your hearts with gladness.”

In giving world rulership over to satan to prove his claims, (Luke 4:5-7) God was always there for anyone to seek him out. Right hearted ones always did. They endured faithfully to the end of their lives and will be remembered by God in the resurrection, when he returns them to life in a “new earth” cleansed of all wickedness, ruled over by a “new heavens”....God’s Kingdom. (John 5:28-29, 2 Peter 3:13)

There is no immortal soul because “sheol” is a place where the dead “sleep”......unconscious...inactive. (Eccl 9:5, 10; John 11:11-14) Life does not continue beyond the grave for the vast majority of us. (Psalm 115:17)
If there is no immortal soul, then, there is no reason to invent places for them to go. Sleeping peacefully is not a hardship so no one has to fear death.

The teaching of the resurrection has been lost by believing that death is not the end of life. People have lived and died in fear because of belief in “a burning hell of eternal torment”......but there was never anything like that to fear from a loving God unless you were incorrigibly wicked....then there was “Gehenna”.......which is not “hellfire” but a termination of life altogether. No one is resurrected from “Gehenna”....”the lake of fire”....“the second death”. Whatever goes into this symbolic lake, never comes out. Even “death” and “hades” (the grave) are hurled into that place to be destroyed. (Revelation 20:14; Matthew 10: 28)

Sincere Bible study answers all questions.....but trying to hang on to false beliefs from centuries ago makes the journey way more difficult that it has to be.
 

Wrangler

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Again, I see confusion with the words “soul” and “spirit”.....they are not one and the same thing.
When a soul dies, it is because the body has ceased to function. The soul cannot live without a body. The spirit is what animates a soul, just as God “breathed the breath (spirit) of life” into Adam who then “became a living soul”.
Do you agree with the equation

SOUL = BODY + LIVING SPIRIT
 

Big Boy Johnson

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I see confusion with the words “soul” and “spirit”.....they are not one and the same thing.

I did not say they were the same thing.

Man is a 3 part being: Spirit, Soul, and Body (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
Animals are a 2 part being: Soul, and Body

God IS a Spirit (John 4:24), and so is man since God created man in His Image.

Man has a spirit within his soul that is an eternal life force (so to speak) for the soul that causes the soul to never die or cease to exist.

Animals don't have this because they were not created in God's image so when they die they cease to exist unlike man who will live for ever being awake and consciously aware.


Do you agree with the equation

SOUL = BODY + LIVING SPIRIT

That would be incorrect according to scripture.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


As we see here, the WHOLE person is... Spirit, Soul, and Body in that order.


Gotcha. No science background to speak of.

I've got access to the the superior knowledge and technology of THE Creator... why would I want to step way down and go with science since it is so limited and the Creator is not???

Those not relying on the Creator are.... backing up!
All you got with your science is experimentation and assumptions from the blind mind of mankind! laughing5.gif
 

Wrangler

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That would be incorrect according to scripture.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


As we see here, the WHOLE person is... Spirit, Soul, and Body in that order.
You don’t think you have a spirit?
 

Big Boy Johnson

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What is the opposite of a living soul? What was Adam before God started him breathing? He was not a soul until he breathed.

What you are missing is the life God put in to man was a soul that was alive unto the Lord meaning God's eternal spirit was in the soul God put in to man.

He did not do that with any other creature including angels as not other creature thr4ough out all eternity have ever been created in God's Image except for... man.

When God created man, He replicated Himself.... but not all powerful as Himself. (the created can never been greater than the creator or as powerful as the creator)

It wasn’t just that man was created in God’s image, he was created 100% mortal

If that were truth, then God lied and did not actually create man in His own Image.

Man was in fact created immortal and will never cease to exist.

There is actually no “heaven or hell” destination for mankind in the Bible

That's a thought that cam from the mind of satan.... it's a lie

There is no immortal soul because “sheol” is a place where the dead “sleep”......unconscious...inactive.

This is also false.

You obviously have not read the teaching Jesus gave about the rich man and Lazarus... both had died physically and has passed away from this earth... and both were fully awake and conscience and weren't napping at all. Cults believe in soul sleep, not Christians.

The Lord said thru Paul that to be absent from the body is the be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8) for believers... unbelievers will be present in hell when they croak.


Sincere Bible study answers all questions.....

You obviously have been listening to some first rate scripture twisters that have you very, very confused.
 

Aunty Jane

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Do you agree with the equation

SOUL = BODY + LIVING SPIRIT
That depends on what you believe the “living spirit” is.
According to scripture, Adam was animated only when Jehovah breathed air into his lungs and he “became a living soul”.....a “living spirit” suggests that the “spirit” in man can exist apart from the body.....it cannot.

The spirit that animates all living humans, that “returns to God” is the ability to resume life as a breathing soul in the resurrection. Only God can restore life through his spirit, which is the power given to his son to bring the dead back to life. (John 5:28-29)

He has only chosen his elect to make up the governing body (government) in heaven (God’s kingdom) to rule mankind and bring them back to spiritual and physical perfection, in order to restore to redeemed mankind, what Adam took away from us.
In prophesy Isaiah wrote....
“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

The “government” or rulership that is on the shoulders of the “Prince of Peace”, will take redeemed mankind back to God’s first purpose...to have this earth filled with righteous people who ALL love and worship Jehovah, and who love his earthly creation and want to take care of it as they were supposed to.

There is nothing that lives on after death.....there is no “living spirit” in man except the breath that God put in him animates him whilst he breathes. If you have ever sat with someone dying, you know that when breathing stops, the heart ceases to pump the lifeblood into the cells, and the organs shut down.

The dead are actually dead....and there is nothing in the Bible that argues with that basic fact.
All “life after death” scenarios were invented by those who fell for satan’s original lie....”you surely will not die.”
 

L.A.M.B.

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The soul of mankind is the spiritual, rational and immortal substance in man, which distinguishes him from all in the animal kingdom. The other animals do not have souls but do have spirits which gives them the animation of life!

Genesis 2:
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God alone created man.The Lord God formed man out of the substance he had already created when he spoke the world into existence.Secondly, God breathed His own breath of life into the man's nostrils; this breath of life is seen again in John 20:22, as Jesus imparts new life into believers.
God is the Master Potter who had the image of man within His mind creating us in his image of three essences, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. We are his ONLY creation in his image through body, soul, & spirit !

Others in the animal kingdom have spirits but do not have souls as the one man possesses which is "God breathed" : it returns to him.
Ecclesiastes 3:20-21
20 All go unto one place; all are of dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Animals do not have souls!

To live life ETERNAL WITH GOD we must have HIS SPIRIT within us.
Romans 8:11
11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

All souls are God's, ( Ezekiel 18:4) and will stand before God in judgement; some to eternal life, some to eternal damnnation!

CHOOSE THIS DAY, WHILE IT IS STILL TODAY, WHOM YOU WILL SERVE!
 

Aunty Jane

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What you are missing is the life God put in to man was a soul that was alive unto the Lord meaning God's eternal spirit was in the soul God put in to man.
Where does it say that specifically? The dead are not conscious or alive (Eccl 9:5, 10).....the “spirit” leaving the body is its last breath. (Psalm 146:4) The spirit “goes out” much like a candle goes out....it is extinguished.
The man “became” a soul when God started him breathing. That is what God said. You are assuming something that the Bible does not say.
He did not do that with any other creature including angels as not other creature thr4ough out all eternity have ever been created in God's Image except for... man.
We don’t know that....we don’t know much about angels at all, so what we do know is that they too have free will....and they are endowed with God’s qualities. They love God and are loyal to him because the obedient ones serve God faithfully, like God’s ancient earthly servants did.
When God created man, He replicated Himself.... but not all powerful as Himself. (the created can never been greater than the creator or as powerful as the creator)
If that were truth, then God lied and did not actually create man in His own Image.

Man was in fact created immortal and will never cease to exist.
Nowhere does the Bible say that man was created “immortal”. In fact if that were true, then the command concerning the penalty for eating the forbidden fruit was meaningless. Death cannot overtake an immortal.

That's a thought that cam from the mind of satan.... it's a lie
Actually the fact that people believe that a God of love could roast people in an eternal fire is a satanic lie.
Nowhere does the Bible speak of “hell” the way it is interpreted by Christendom’s many denominations.
Do you know the difference between “hades”, “Gehenna”, “the lake of fire” and Tartarus”?...all are translated as “hell” in many Bibles....but all mean very different things in the original languages of the Bible writers.
This is also false.

You obviously have not read the teaching Jesus gave about the rich man and Lazarus... both had died physically and has passed away from this earth... and both were fully awake and conscience and weren't napping at all. Cults believe in soul sleep, not Christians.
You do understand that the rich man and Lazarus is a parable among many others. Trying to make that story literal is a bit ridiculous, since heaven and hell are supposedly within speaking distance to one another and a drop of water on someone’s finger would cool someone in a blazing fire.....like all other parables, it is completely pictorial.

When Israel fell to burning their children in the fire in imitation of the Baal worshippers, what was God’s response?
“They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’”

If God condemned the Israelites for burning their children, then why would he do that himself?!

There is no such place as Christendom’s “hellfire”....do some research on Gehenna and see for yourself.
“The fire that does not go out” and “the worms that never die” have a perfectly logical explanation.
The Lord said thru Paul that to be absent from the body is the be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8) for believers... unbelievers will be present in hell when they croak.
Paul was speaking as one of the elect.....they are the only ones who were promised a spiritual resurrection. Jesus too had to be resurrected as a spirit in order to return to his Father in heaven. (1 Pet 3:18)
This is what it means to be “born again”....to experience a new birth as a new creation. The elect are chosen by God for a role in his kingdom as “kings and priests”....these are resurrected “first”. (Revelation 20:6)

Putting on immortality is a reward for a faithful course unto death. Only spirit beings can be immortals, because mortals need external means to keep living....food, oxygen and water.....being without any of them would cause death. We are created mortal.

This “first resurrection” is a completely different resurrection to the one Jesus performs later. (John 5:28-29) Those raised later are “both righteous and unrighteous ones”. (Acts 24:15) Those of the “first resurrection” are naturally raised first.
You obviously have been listening to some first rate scripture twisters that have you very, very confused.
No, I used to be confused about a lot of things until I studied the Bible for myself......gathering all my former beliefs (attained in Christendom) and putting them all in the trash.....and, starting at the beginning, I allowed the Bible itself to teach me the truth.....I know that there is no “immortal soul” because the Bible does not ever refer to it. Adam was never told that he had an immortal soul, or that roasting him in hell was even a possibility.....and he knew only one God......Yahweh. (Deut 6:4)
 

Jack

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The dead are not conscious or alive
That's a Satanic JW lie!

The rich man died but was very much alive and TORMENTED in the fire!

Luke 16
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
 
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