The Battle of Armageddon

[ewq1938]

The hope of Christians since Christ was taken up in a cloud has been to be raised up alive or resurrected and taken up to be with Him in heaven, in the mansions He has prepared for us in the heavenly kingdom, and that has not change except for a few misguided who wait for the false messiah to wander around on earth and say he is God, and deceive them.

The misguided do not watch for the AC. All false doctrines teach a variation of that. Scripture also does not state that anyone will be raptured to or taken to heaven at the rapture. They go only as high as the clouds.

 

[ewq1938]

Now the Antichrist will not appear until the Bottomless pit is unlocked around 1,025 years from now, 1,000 years after the Armageddon judgement.

How can the AC appear 1000 years after Armageddon when Rev 19 places the AC (called a beast) at Armageddon and being defeated there?

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Jay Ross]

You both are wrong about this future resurrection or release from the pit.

The appearing of the dead before the GWT is after current creation. They don't come back to this earth nor the future new earth. They certainly don't attack anything. They are either cast into the LOF or given eternal life. Eternal life is the only resurrection available. Not a resurrection to attack things. A resurrection to damnation is mentioned by Daniel but that is not the first resurrection, which is physical. And damnation is certainly not eternal life. They are raised out of death, sheol, and the sea to be cast into the LOF only.

The pit is opened twice. Once at the 5th Trumpet. It is then sealed when Satan is placed in the pit. Only Satan is loosed, no one else. Satan decieves humans alive on earth at that time. Humans just born in the last hundred years or so of that 1,000 year reign. No one is released from sheol to have an opportunity to live out a life on earth again, a "second chance". Only those alive at the time, not physically dead can be deceived. And those decieved are consumed by fire before they can act out or harm any one. Then Satan is cast into the LOF. Then current creation is handed back to God, and no longer exist as it did not exist seconds before current creation existed in Genesis 1:1. John claims they were found no more, anywhere. Paul said

"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Only God is left. Then God creates a NHNE that contains all of the former living humans and Jesus. Jesus and God now dwelling in the New Jerusalem when it comes to earth.

Timtofly, congratulation on attempting to provide a reasoned rebuttal in response to what I had posted rather than to attack the person. Well done.

Sadly however, I disagree with your timeline understanding which, IMHO, is flawed.

The release of the kings of the earth and the heavenly hosts from the bottomless pit is not a resurrection as you have suggested. The Kings of the earth when they rise up out of the Bottomless Pit will at that time have hair that is long like a woman and teeth that have grown in length such that they are similar in appearance to that of a lion's teeth.

I also disagree with your claim that the pit is opened twice. Satan is judged with the heavenly hosts and together with the other judged heavenly hosts, i.e., the beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 and the Little Horn who will be given an army for 2,300 years to trample God's sanctuary and God's earthly hosts, they will be imprisoned for many days to await the time of their punishment, (Isa 24:21-22), however in Revelation 20:1-3 we are told that the many days will be 1,000 years.

The assumption made by many is that Christ will rule the peoples of the earth from the face of the earth, whereas I perceive that Christ will rule the peoples of the earth from Heaven with the Saints of the first resurrection.

It seems to me that you have a linear understanding of the Book of Revelation whereas I have an understanding that the Book of Revelation is a series of revelations of events that will take place during the end times, but not is any chronological order.

Now if my understanding is incorrect, then the unfolding of the End Time will confirm that I am a false teacher about the End Times. I am happy for God to prove me wrong, if I am, in what I post.

So far, the historical record has proved that my understanding is in line with God's revealed prophetic revelations. I have mentioned that the Prophetic witness within the Seventh Bowl Judgement have already occurred. I am not prepared to argue against what God has already done with respect to His prophetic words.

Have a good day.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

How can the AC appear 1000 years after Armageddon when Rev 19 places the AC (called a beast) at Armageddon and being defeated there?

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Book of revelation is not chronological in what it reveals. As such your post is not in keeping with God's prophetic words.

Have a Good Day.

Good Bye

 

[PinSeeker]

The Book of revelation is not chronological in what it reveals.

Well, not strictly chronological. I agree. What I would say, Jay ~ and you may or may not agree ~ is that it is chronological to a certain degree... seven times over. Generally speaking.

Thank you for your thoughtful posts and gentle, graceful rebuttals to... well, another poster.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ewq1938]

The Book of revelation is not chronological in what it reveals.

Everyone already knows that. That doesn't explain how the AC supposedly comes a 1000 years after Armageddon when he is actually at Armageddon and is def4ated there. Your timeline of Rev and it's events is a disaster.

 

[Jay Ross]

Everyone already knows that. That doesn't explain how the AC supposedly comes a 1000 years after Armageddon when he is actually at Armageddon and is def4ated there. Your timeline of Rev and it's events is a disaster.

That is just you opinion. As for my timeline of Rev events being a disaster, you, sadly, provided no proof to support your claim.

Many "Christians" believe that in our near future that Christ will come down to the face of the earth and rule the people from there. In my study of the scriptures, I have found no evidence that this is true.

If you can find this scriptural evidence to support your POV then I would be interested in reviewing it.

 

[Timtofly]

Timtofly, congratulation on attempting to provide a reasoned rebuttal in response to what I had posted rather than to attack the person. Well done.

Sadly however, I disagree with your timeline understanding which, IMHO, is flawed.

The release of the kings of the earth and the heavenly hosts from the bottomless pit is not a resurrection as you have suggested. The Kings of the earth when they rise up out of the Bottomless Pit will at that time have hair that is long like a woman and teeth that have grown in length such that they are similar in appearance to that of a lion's teeth.

I also disagree with your claim that the pit is opened twice. Satan is judged with the heavenly hosts and together with the other judged heavenly hosts, i.e., the beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 and the Little Horn who will be given an army for 2,300 years to trample God's sanctuary and God's earthly hosts, they will be imprisoned for many days to await the time of their punishment, (Isa 24:21-22), however in Revelation 20:1-3 we are told that the many days will be 1,000 years.

The assumption made by many is that Christ will rule the peoples of the earth from the face of the earth, whereas I perceive that Christ will rule the peoples of the earth from Heaven with the Saints of the first resurrection.

It seems to me that you have a linear understanding of the Book of Revelation whereas I have an understanding that the Book of Revelation is a series of revelations of events that will take place during the end times, but not is any chronological order.

Now if my understanding is incorrect, then the unfolding of the End Time will confirm that I am a false teacher about the End Times. I am happy for God to prove me wrong, if I am, in what I post.

So far, the historical record has proved that my understanding is in line with God's revealed prophetic revelations. I have mentioned that the Prophetic witness within the Seventh Bowl Judgement have already occurred. I am not prepared to argue against what God has already done with respect to His prophetic words.

Have a good day.

Goodbye

How does your chronological order line up with the fact there was a new heaven and earth at the time of the Flood? Many keep repeating this parallel repetition in Revelation, but fail to see that there was a new heaven and earth after the Flood.

Repeating the same events is akin to saying this in 2 Peter 3:

"And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."

The same thing over and over again is not change, but there has been change, and there will be again, very soon. The first change was through water, the last will be through fire, and then there will still be the Day of the Lord on earth.

Yes, everyone will know at the Second Coming. Then many will still be deceived.

 

[ewq1938]

That is just you opinion. As for my timeline of Rev events being a disaster, you, sadly, provided no proof to support your claim.

Of course I did. You claim the AC does not show up until 1000 years after Armageddon but Rev 19 places the AC at Armageddon, and he existed before it in Rev 16 and the 6th bowl.

This proves your claim to be wrong, badly wrong.

 

[Jay Ross]

Of course I did. You claim the AC does not show up until 1000 years after Armageddon but Rev 19 places the AC at Armageddon, and he existed before it in Rev 16 and the 6th bowl.

This proves your claim to be wrong, badly wrong.

But of course, you are the one making the claim. The Sixth Bowl judgement IMHO is presently playing out at now before our very eyes. The judgement at Armageddon is describing the Isaiah 24:21-22 judgement of the Heavenly hosts and the Kings of the earth. The Kings of the earth will be judged in our near future and the heavenly hosts will be judged at the same time, and together they will be gathered and imprisoned in a pit for many days.

It is my view that the 9/11 events in New York City and at the pentagon were the signs and wonders that the whole earth saw as they unfolded on our TV's as they happened over a period of a few hours. When you look at a commercial passenger plane, they can be considered to look like a frog jumping through the air and John's description of three frog like spirits for me gels wit what John would have understood.

It is also my understanding that the AC will be one of the Judged heavenly hosts that will be judged at the same time in heaven as the kings of the earth will be judge on the face of the earth at Armageddon. Now we know that the Bottomless pit will be locked for 1,000 years and that Satan after he is thrown out of heaven onto the face of the earth is immediately imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years.

The order that the imprisoned entities emerge from the Bottomless pit seems to be, firstly the kings of the earth, then the Beast followed by the False Prophet, who is called the Little Horn in the Old Testament, with Satan apparently being the last entity that arise from the Bottomless pit.

In Rev 12 we are told that Satan and the other rebelling Angels were all kicked out of heaven at the same time and in rev 19 we are told that Satan is immediately locked up in the Bottomless pit when his feet touch the surface of the earth. It is not until Satan is released from the Bottomless pit that he realises that his time is short and that he only has the little while period to work on becoming God in the holy place on the earth.

In Rev 16, the seven bowl judgements have been revealed to us in the verses in reverse order to when the described bowl events will occur.

It is my view that the seventh Bowl judgement has already happen during the last 125 years or so and that the judgement of the kings of the earth will occur in around 25 years from now.

It is also my view that the Sixth Bowl judgement has been occurring around us and that it will begin to draw the kings of the earth to Armageddon to be judged in around 25 years from now. How close am I with the around 25 years from now? Probably within plus or minus five years.

What will be the trigger to cause the kings of the earth to assemble at Armageddon? It is my view that Israel will attempt to build a new temple in Jerusalem but that they will not have the means to complete its construction and that they will look foolish to the nations that live in the countries around them.

Israel's attempt to rebuild the temple is their attempt to reconnect with the God of their fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob but the Lord God will require that Israel humble themselves and circumcise their hearts first before He will turn to Gather them to Himself.

Romans 11:25-26 tells us that they will all be saved after the Gentile Kings of the earth at judged at Armageddon.

But I fear that this understanding will not be accepted by many and the belief that the Temple will save them once more will not materialise as they and many Christians exspect.

Shalom

 

[ewq1938]

Now the Antichrist will not appear until the Bottomless pit is unlocked around 1,025 years from now, 1,000 years after the Armageddon judgement.

You claim the AC won't appear until 1000 years after Armageddon yet the bible shows the AC is at Armageddon and is defeated and killed at that same timeframe.

Have you even bothered to read Rev 19?


Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Jay Ross]

You claim the AC won't appear until 1000 years after Armageddon yet the bible shows the AC is at Armageddon and is defeated and killed at that same timeframe.

Have you even bothered to read Rev 19?


Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Have you read Rev 20: -

Rev 20:7-9: - Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

I believe that this is the same army described in Ezekiel 38-39 that will be eaten by the birds of the air, which is also confirmed in Rev 19: -

Have you ever read Rev 19:17-19?

Rev 19:17-19: - The Beast and His Armies Defeated
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

Have you ever read Ezekiel 39:1-5?

Ezekiel 39:1-5: - Gog's Armies Destroyed
39:1 "And you, son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal; 2 and I will turn you around and lead you on, bringing you up from the far north, and bring you against the religion of Israel. 3 Then I will knock the bow out of your left hand and cause the arrows to fall out of your right hand. 4 You shall fall upon the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops and the peoples who are with you; I will give you to birds of prey of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. 5 You shall fall on the open field; for I have spoken," says the Lord God.

Yes I agree with you that reference is made to the Battle of Armageddon in Rev 19, perhaps in verses 11-16.

Rev 19:11-16: - Christ on a White Horse
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

It is my view that the above passages confirm my POV.

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

You are avoiding confronting the contradiction you have made:

You claim the AC won't appear until 1000 years after Armageddon yet the bible shows the AC is at Armageddon and is defeated and killed at that same timeframe. Please address that directly.

Your disagreement is over our differences in interpretation of the Biblical End Time Prophecies and our understanding of how they will play out.

My understanding is that there will be no pre-tribulation rapture of the Saints in the near future. That in our near future, Christ will fleetingly visit the face of the earth to judge the kings of the earth at Armageddon and then return to heaven where He will become our High Priest interceding on our behalf. That Satan, the Beast, the False Prophet and the judged Kings of the earth at Armageddon will be gathered together and imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years, that Satan's good and faithful servants will run interference on the earth through the money given to them to impede the establishment of the Everlasting Kingdom over the whole face of the earth. During this 1,000-year period while Satan and his cohorts are locked up in the Bottomless pit, the Great Harvest of Souls who will worship God is brought into the Kingdom of God.

After the 1,000 years that the judged entities have been imprisoned in the Bottomless pit, the Bottomless pit will be unlocked for a little while period where the judged Kings of the Earth will rise up out of the pit: -

Rev 9:3-6: - 3 And out of the smoke, locusts descended on the earth, and they were given power like that of the scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 The locusts were not given power to kill them, but only to torment them for five months, and their torment was like the stinging of a scorpion. 6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, but death will escape them.

After that the beast will rise up out of the bottomless Pit as recorded in Rev 17: -

Rev 17:6-18: - 6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

The Meaning of the Woman and the Beast

7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the [c]mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you [g]saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

And Satan and the Beast will march all over the face of the earth and encircle the Saints and at this time the people will marvel and worship the dragon who had given his authority to the beast and they will also worship the beast. Then the False Prophet will also rise up out of the Bottomless pit and do signs and wonders and cause the people of the earth to worship the image of the beast. (Rev 13)

It is at this point during the Little while period that Christ will capture the Beast and the False Prophet and dispatch them into the lake of Fire. (Rev 19:17-21) This will occur during the Gog Magog battle at the end of the Little While Period. Shortly after this Satan is also captured and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Then the final judgement of mankind will take place, those who are deemed righteous they will inherit the whole earth while those who are unrighteous will go into the Lake of fire.

Then Hades and the Second Death will be also cast into the Lake of fire.

Then the heaven and the earth will be refurbished like new again and Jerusalem will descend from the heavens and God will then dwell among the Saints

I am content with my interpretation and understanding of how the end Times will play out over the next 1,000 plus years and where I would place the event of the Judgement at Armageddon will take place. I am also resolved to accept that the beast and the False Prophet are wicked rebelling fallen Angels and are not human in any way shape or form.

Now if you can present a Biblically justified chronological order of how the End Times will unfold then be my guest. I will read it with interest and see if it does conform to what the Scriptures has already revealed to us.

Good Bye

 

[ewq1938]

Your disagreement is over our differences in interpretation of the Biblical End Time Prophecies and our understanding of how they will play out.

You are avoiding confronting the contradiction you have made:

You claim the AC won't appear until 1000 years after Armageddon yet the bible shows the AC is at Armageddon and is defeated and killed at that same timeframe. Please address that directly.

 

[Jay Ross]

You are avoiding confronting the contradiction you have made:

You claim the AC won't appear until 1000 years after Armageddon yet the bible shows the AC is at Armageddon and is defeated and killed at that same timeframe. Please address that directly.

I can tell you once what I understand the scriptures are saying, I can tell you a second time what the scriptures are saying but after the third time of telling you the basis of my understanding backed up with scripture, what the scriptures are saying, all I can do is withdraw from our conversation because it seems that you are not seeing or listening to what I have posted.

Have a good day now.

Goodbye

PS: - I have addressed the issue that you are having with God's timeline of how the end times will unfold. The issue is with how you are interpreting the scriptures. If that is the case, then your disagreement is with God and not with me.

 

[Hobie]

No... the "man of sin" is NOT... here on earth yet. Nor is he some flesh-born man either.

Rev 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
KJV

Verse 11 is about the saints beheaded on the 5th Seal of Revelation 6. That is about the future "great tribulation" time, which is WHEN that "man of sin" (Satan) will arrive on earth, in JERUSALEM, and be setup as "king of the world", working great signs, wonders, and miracles, raining fire down from heaven to the earth in the sight of men (Rev.13).

You only have to look at the idols and pagan beliefs brought into the church and still held today and the blasphemy it proclaims from the Pope himself holding he is the 'vicar of Christ' or God on earth. There is no question it fulfills the antichrist prophecy given in Gods Word.

 

[ewq1938]

You only have to look at the idols and pagan beliefs brought into the church and still held today and the blasphemy it proclaims from the Pope himself holding he is the 'vicar of Christ' or God on earth. There is no question it fulfills the antichrist prophecy given in Gods Word.

He is just one of the many ACs but there is coming a final one who will not be like the previous.

 

[TribulationSigns]

He is just one of the many ACs but there is coming a final one who will not be like the previous.

"final one?" Where do you find that in Scripture? Are you suggesting that there won't be any more antichrists after your so-called "final antichrist?" Show me the chapter and verse, please.

 

[ewq1938]

"final one?" Where do you find that in Scripture? Are you suggesting that there won't be any more antichrists after your so-called "final antichrist?"

Yes. There won't be any more once the last one is destroyed.

Show me the chapter and verse, please.

One verse would never be enough for any issue like this. Study all that deal with the concept of shadows/types and fulfillments.

 

[Davy]

You only have to look at the idols and pagan beliefs brought into the church and still held today and the blasphemy it proclaims from the Pope himself holding he is the 'vicar of Christ' or God on earth. There is no question it fulfills the antichrist prophecy given in Gods Word.

You are only pushing 'old Reformation' ideas by those who actually hate... the Christian Church.

The final Antichrist that Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us about for the 'end', will not be a pope. The final Antichrist for the end is coming to play GOD in Jerusalem, not Rome. How far apart is Rome from Jerusalem? That's how far off the popish doctrine you are deceived by is.

When The Gospel was preached to the western Christian nations, the peoples in those nations began to put away their pagan idol worship. And they were definitely doing that, each region in Europe had their own version of Baal idol worship, the very thing which God scattered the ten lost tribes of Israel for. (see Book of Hosea, and 2 Kings 17).

Once the majority converted to Christ and The Gospel, the nations of Europe made the edict to the unbelieving Jews to either convert to Christ, or leave. Thus the orthodox unbelieving Jews went from nation to nation in Europe, like vagabonds, until many of them wound up going back to the holy land, in stages over centuries. This was especially so after the Protestant Reformation too.

The unbelieving Jews thus hate the Christian Church, both the Church of Rome, and the Protestant Church. And since the old Protestant reformer's belief that the pope was the Antichrist prophesied for the end in God's Word, because of persecutions by the Catholic Church against Protestants in those days, and that belief that the pope is The Antichrist did NOT... come true, then who would likely be the ones wanting to continue... that false belief against the Catholic Church today?? Easy, the UNBELIEVING JEWS. That is who you are being deceived by with thinking the pope is The Antichrist for the end of this world.