Romans 11 and the real Replacement Theology

[Jack]

Besides this, a parable is a metaphorical story with a meaning.

Are you JW?

 

[Zao is life]

Are you JW?

I'm tired of your P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C accusations and insinuations.

I have not reported your many personal attacks calling me a liar yet. I should have, but I've realized how lame your false accusations and insinuations are. However, call me a liar one more time or make any more personal attacks, and I will report it.

Asking me if I'm a JW is not a personal attack but it is another one of your red herrings.

Your MO is just like the MO of a Christ-hating Orthodox Rabbinical student in Jerusalem I debated with once in another forum. I only continued because in his stupidity and without realizing it he was giving me the opportunity to share the gospel from scripture with anyone else who might read the conversation. I was hoping any Jewish person who might read would check up on the scriptures I was quoting.

Your MO is EXACTLY the same as that Christ-hating Orthodox Rabbi I'm talking about. To be honest you haven't given me any evidence that you are a "Bible-believing Gentile" as you claim, and that you include the New Testament and not just the Tanach in your word "Bible". You sound to me like another one of those Orthodox Rabbi students, except that this time you are masquerading as a Christian, because the things you say, your denial of the one and only true gospel, and your childish comments are almost the same, and produced by the same spirit, because the disposition behind your words is the opposite of the fruit of the Spirit.

So I'm placing you on ignore (again, for the second time). I don't want to read your posts anymore, because your disposition and false accusations, repeatedly calling Christ's flock liars etc etc, is disrespectful to God the Father, to the Lord Jesus Christ, and to the entire body of Christ.

Goodbye.​

 

[Jack]

I'm tired of your P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C accusations and insinuations.

I have not reported your many personal attacks calling me a liar yet.​

Quote them!

I should have, but I've realized how lame your false accusations and insinuations are. However, call me a liar one more time or make any more personal attacks, and I will report it.​

Have at it!

Asking me if I'm a JW is not a personal attack but it is another one of your red herrings.​

You think asking a question is a personal attack? But you didn't answer my question.

Your MO is just like the MO of a Christ-hating Orthodox Rabbinical student in Jerusalem I debated with once in another forum. I only continued because in his stupidity and without realizing it he was giving me the opportunity to share the gospel from scripture with anyone else who might read the conversation. I was hoping any Jewish person who might read would check up on the scriptures I was quoting.​

I've checked with the Scriptures many times. That's why I recognize Israel wannabees.

Your MO is EXACTLY the same as that Christ-hating Orthodox Rabbi I'm talking about. To be honest you haven't given me any evidence that you are a "Bible-believing Gentile" as you claim, and that you include the New Testament and not just the Tanach in your word "Bible". You sound to me like another one of those Orthodox Rabbi students, except that this time you are masquerading as a Christian, because the things you say, your denial of the one and only true gospel, and your childish comments are almost the same, and produced by the same spirit, because the disposition behind your words is the opposite of the fruit of the Spirit.​

Israel is back to stay no matter how many identity thieves attack Israel.

So I'm placing you on ignore (again, for the second time). I don't want to read your posts anymore, because your disposition and false accusations, repeatedly calling Christ's flock liars etc etc, is disrespectful to God the Father, to the Lord Jesus Christ, and to the entire body of Christ.

Goodbye.​

That's common with identity thieves! They have ZERO Scripture, only HATRED for Israel! Good bye, again.

 

[Zao is life]

Your username is getting more ironic by the day.

Tim I'm placing you on ignore for a while. You've taken to only being in attack mode a lot of the time, and you seem to be more interested in winning arguments than in what the authors of the Bible actually meant,

as a result your statements and accusations are becoming more and more confused and bizarre in the process, so that not much of what you say makes any sense, because there is no logical and clearly thought out argument accompanying your posts. Like here:

They were natural branches, until they were not. Those who were never circumcised of the heart did not remain, but were accursed.

How can they be natural branches until they are not? Jews who do not believe in Jesus remain natural branches.

 

[Jack]

Tim I'm placing you on ignore for a while. You've taken to only being on the attack, and you seem to be more interested in winning arguments than in what the authors of the Bible actually meant, and your statements and accusations against me are becoming more and more confused and bizarre in the process, so that not much of what you say makes any sense, because there is no logical and clearly thought out argument accompanying all your insults.

You sound like a Dem accusing Christians of what YOU Israel HATERS do. Did you find a map? It's called Israel, the Land of the Bible. You ain't Israel! I think Tlaib and Omar would LOVE your posts!

 

[Zao is life]

Prove what you allege! Prove from the Word of God that a parable is not always given to show the spiritual Kingdom of God has come using things that are familiar.

Your claim was that the parable of the fig tree putting out leaves is referring to the entire gospel Age. Your claim was not that it's referring to the fact that the Kingdom of God has come, so please don't change your claims. Be consistent.

Let's first look at what the word "parable" means, then we will come back to your false assertion yet again:

parable

1. a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.
2. a statement or comment that conveys a meaning indirectly by the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.

Source: Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.

[StrongsGreek] 03850 παραβολή parabolḗ, par-ab-ol-ay'
from 3846 parabállō;
a similitude ("parable"), i.e. (symbolic) fictitious narrative (of common life conveying a moral), apothegm or adage:--comparison, figure, parable, proverb.

[StrongsGreek] 03846 παραβάλλω parabállō, par-ab-al'-lo
from 3844 and 906;
to throw alongside, i.e. (reflexively) to reach a place, or (figuratively) to liken:--arrive, compare.

It can be a comparison between two different things (as it is in Matthew 24:32), or a metaphorical story. Only in your imagination does a parable always mean a story "referring to the gospel Age".

For example, the following parable of the ground that the seed fell on is true for any PERSON and any generation and any period in any Age:

Matthew 13
18 Therefore hear the parable of the sower.
19 When anyone hears the Word of the kingdom and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and catches away that which was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown by the wayside.
20 But that which was sown on the stony places is this: he who hears the Word and immediately receives it with joy.
21 But he has no root in himself, and is temporary. For when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, he immediately stumbles.
22 And that sown into the thorns is this: he who hears the word; and the anxiety of this world, and the deceit of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.
23 But that sown on the good ground is this: "he who hears the Word and understands; who also bears fruit and produces" one truly a hundredfold; and one sixty; and one thirty.

The parable consists in the type of ground the seed is sown in - not in the gospel of the kingdom that the seed consists of - it can be true for ANY Age.

The following parable consists only in what it is saying about Jesus (the Shepherd) and His sheep - it's not talking about the gospel Age, because the gospel Age/Kingdom of God is not the point of the parable:

John 10
1 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter into the sheepfold by the door, but going up by another way, that one is a thief and a robber.
2 But he who enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 The doorkeeper opens to him, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 And when he puts forth his own sheep, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him. For they know his voice.
5 And they will not follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.
6 Jesus spoke this parable to them, but they did not understand what it was which He spoke to them.

You ignore the meaning of the word parable and the different things that a parable is used for so that you can push your false assertion that the parable of the fig tree putting out leaves causing us to know that summer is near (that Jesus used as a comparison with the signs of the end of the Age that He had just given in the Olivet Discourse), is referring to the "entire Kingdom/gospel Age".

But it doesn't work. In your imagination you may believe that you have "proved it", even though the dictionary definition of the word parable ALREADY proves you wrong. But your argument simply does not hold. Your argument is like a seed sown on stony ground. Get it? I just used a parable - just like Jesus did when He compared the fig tree putting out leaves (not fruit) telling us that summer is near, with the signs He had just given that His return is near.

Now I have provided enough - more than sufficient biblical proof, and from the Dictionary, that your claim is false.

Opinions are typically welcomed, but only those that can be biblically supported are helpful.

Which is why yours are not always helpful.

Bur okay, in my thread about Romans 11 you decided to get back onto a different discussion you were having with another poster about something else and give your own very long personal commentary about a good few unrelated New Testament subjects, and I should not have even read it, let alone had anything to say about it.

My bad.

 

[Jack]

Israel wannabees?

Zechariah 14
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

 

[JBO]

Your bias has caused you to falsely assert the above. God does not see someone in Christ as a Jew. Nor does He see someone in Christ as a Gentile. He sees only Christ.

God does see a Jew who is in Christ. One does not lose their earthly identity when they believe in God.

 

[JBO]

At last. Thank you for backing up what you say with scripture. Finally. I thought you may know what you are talking about regarding the word "fullness", and finally you start actually backing it up with scripture.

Now can you explain to us what you understand by the word "fullness" so that the cup you're handing us does not remain half empty please?

In all it's fullness, I mean.

The word fullness is translated/interpreted from the Greek word πλήρωμα [plērōma].

Fom Strong's we have:

G4138

πλήρωμα

plērōma

play'-ro-mah

From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.

I think the key to the meaning there for "fullness" is in the very next verse where Paul says "And therefore all Israel will be saved." Who then is meant by all Israel. That comes from his discussion of the previous verses (vv. 11-24) where he discusses the grafting in of the Gentiles. Specifically notice that in verse 12, Paul also speaks of a fullness. In that case it is the fullness of the Jews. He says in verse 11 that "through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles...". Then in verse 12 Paul says, "Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?" Clearly the meaning there is not the complete number of Jews at the end of the age. That would be way too late to be of much help to the Gentiles. Here the idea of their fullness is in contrast to their stumbling, falling, and trespassing. That brought salvation to the Gentiles (v.11). This in turn brought envy to the Jew and thus salvation to them (v.14). Hence the contrast with stumbling, falling, and trespassing is salvation. Thus the Jews' fullness is the rich blessedness they receive when they abandon their unbelief and accept the salvation brought by Jesus Christ.

Now the whole point of verse 12 is not really about the Jews but about the Gentiles; that is, what will happen to the Gentiles as a result of the Jews' unbelief as well as the belief. If some Gentiles are saved as the result of the Jews' rejection of the gospel, then we haven even more reason to expect Gentiles to be saved as the result of the Jews' acceptance of the gospel due to envy.

Keep in mind that It is Paul's mission to bring the gospel to the Gentiles. I think he did that. Paul. together with the rest of the NT authors, have indeed brought salvation to the Gentiles. Thus, the fullness of the Gentiles as come in. Just as the Jews' fullness is the rich blessedness they receive when they abandon their unbelief and accept the salvation brought by Jesus Christ, so also the Gentiles' fullness is the rich blessedness they receive when they accept the salvation now available to them through Jesus Christ.

That was accomplished with the completion of the gospel message of the Word of God. There is now neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ Jesus.

 

[Zao is life]

The word fullness is translated/interpreted from the Greek word πλήρωμα [plērōma].

Fom Strong's we have:

G4138

πλήρωμα

plērōma

play'-ro-mah

From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.

I think the key to the meaning there for "fullness" is in the very next verse where Paul says "And therefore all Israel will be saved." Who then is meant by all Israel. That comes from his discussion of the previous verses (vv. 11-24) where he discusses the grafting in of the Gentiles. Specifically notice that in verse 12, Paul also speaks of a fullness. In that case it is the fullness of the Jews. He says in verse 11 that "through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles...". Then in verse 12 Paul says, "Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?" Clearly the meaning there is not the complete number of Jews at the end of the age. That would be way too late to be of much help to the Gentiles. Here the idea of their fullness is in contrast to their stumbling, falling, and trespassing. That brought salvation to the Gentiles (v.11). This in turn brought envy to the Jew and thus salvation to them (v.14). Hence the contrast with stumbling, falling, and trespassing is salvation. Thus the Jews' fullness is the rich blessedness they receive when they abandon their unbelief and accept the salvation brought by Jesus Christ.

Now the whole point of verse 12 is not really about the Jews but about the Gentiles; that is, what will happen to the Gentiles as a result of the Jews' unbelief as well as the belief. If some Gentiles are saved as the result of the Jews' rejection of the gospel, then we haven even more reason to expect Gentiles to be saved as the result of the Jews' acceptance of the gospel due to envy.

Keep in mind that It is Paul's mission to bring the gospel to the Gentiles. I think he did that. Paul. together with the rest of the NT authors, have indeed brought salvation to the Gentiles. Thus, the fullness of the Gentiles as come in. Just as the Jews' fullness is the rich blessedness they receive when they abandon their unbelief and accept the salvation brought by Jesus Christ, so also the Gentiles' fullness is the rich blessedness they receive when they accept the salvation now available to them through Jesus Christ.

That was accomplished with the completion of the gospel message of the Word of God.

I believe you are correct in your interpretation of the meaning of the word "fullness", and thank you also for pointing out its use in Romans 11:12 in reference to the naturally-born descendants of Abraham, rather than to the Gentiles as in Romans 11:25. I also have always overlooked the use of the same word in Romans 11:12, till now.

It doesn't change the fact that Jews repenting (not continuing in unbelief) and being grafted into their own Olive tree again + Gentiles being brought to faith in Christ being grafted into the olive tree among the remnant of the naturally-born descendants of Abraham, is a process which has been ongoing since the Deliverer came out of Zion, turning away ungodliness from Jacob and making a (new) covenant with them in His blood when He took away sins by becoming sin for us. Not sure where you stand on that.

 

[rwb]

Your claim was that the parable of the fig tree putting out leaves is referring to the entire gospel Age. Your claim was not that it's referring to the fact that the Kingdom of God has come, so please don't change your claims. Be consistent.

Let's first look at what the word "parable" means, then we will come back to your false assertion yet again:

parable

1. a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.
2. a statement or comment that conveys a meaning indirectly by the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.

Source: Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.

[StrongsGreek] 03850 παραβολή parabolḗ, par-ab-ol-ay'
from 3846 parabállō;
a similitude ("parable"), i.e. (symbolic) fictitious narrative (of common life conveying a moral), apothegm or adage:--comparison, figure, parable, proverb.

[StrongsGreek] 03846 παραβάλλω parabállō, par-ab-al'-lo
from 3844 and 906;
to throw alongside, i.e. (reflexively) to reach a place, or (figuratively) to liken:--arrive, compare.

It can be a comparison between two different things (as it is in Matthew 24:32), or a metaphorical story. Only in your imagination does a parable always mean a story "referring to the gospel Age".

For example, the following parable of the ground that the seed fell on is true for any PERSON and any generation and any period in any Age:

Matthew 13
18 Therefore hear the parable of the sower.
19 When anyone hears the Word of the kingdom and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and catches away that which was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown by the wayside.
20 But that which was sown on the stony places is this: he who hears the Word and immediately receives it with joy.
21 But he has no root in himself, and is temporary. For when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, he immediately stumbles.
22 And that sown into the thorns is this: he who hears the word; and the anxiety of this world, and the deceit of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.
23 But that sown on the good ground is this: "he who hears the Word and understands; who also bears fruit and produces" one truly a hundredfold; and one sixty; and one thirty.

The parable consists in the type of ground the seed is sown in - not in the gospel of the kingdom that the seed consists of - it can be true for ANY Age.

The following parable consists only in what it is saying about Jesus (the Shepherd) and His sheep - it's not talking about the gospel Age, because the gospel Age/Kingdom of God is not the point of the parable:

John 10
1 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter into the sheepfold by the door, but going up by another way, that one is a thief and a robber.
2 But he who enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 The doorkeeper opens to him, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 And when he puts forth his own sheep, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him. For they know his voice.
5 And they will not follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.
6 Jesus spoke this parable to them, but they did not understand what it was which He spoke to them.

You ignore the meaning of the word parable and the different things that a parable is used for so that you can push your false assertion that the parable of the fig tree putting out leaves causing us to know that summer is near (that Jesus used as a comparison with the signs of the end of the Age that He had just given in the Olivet Discourse), is referring to the "entire Kingdom/gospel Age".

But it doesn't work. In your imagination you may believe that you have "proved it", even though the dictionary definition of the word parable ALREADY proves you wrong. But your argument simply does not hold. Your argument is like a seed sown on stony ground. Get it? I just used a parable - just like Jesus did when He compared the fig tree putting out leaves (not fruit) telling us that summer is near, with the signs He had just given that His return is near.

Now I have provided enough - more than sufficient biblical proof, and from the Dictionary, that your claim is false.

Which is why yours are not always helpful.

Bur okay, in my thread about Romans 11 you decided to get back onto a different discussion you were having with another poster about something else and give your own very long personal commentary about a good few unrelated New Testament subjects, and I should not have even read it, let alone had anything to say about it.

My bad.

You apparently cannot biblically prove that ALL the parables of Christ are given to point us to the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God using earthly, familiar examples of things that we might know His Kingdom has come. Which is what I have consistently stated, and believe. You NEED this particular parable of the fig tree to be about the return of Christ because you are now desperately trying to change the purpose for EVERY parable spoken by Christ.

Yes, this parable, like each of the parables are showing us the spiritual Kingdom of God has come, and so we might KNOW that it has come (because we cannot see it through physical sight) Christ uses parables to explain His Kingdom for us. Luke proves this when he writes the parable is that we might KNOW "the Kingdom of God" NOT the second coming "is nigh at hand." We can't see His Kingdom physically, because His Kingdom is not physical, but SPIRITUAL, and is NOT OF THIS WORLD, because it is within you.

Luke 21:31 (KJV) So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

THE PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE, LIKE ALL CHRIST'S PARABLES SHOWS US HOW WE MIGHT KNOW HIS SPIRITUAL KINGDOM HAS COME, AND IS NOT REFERRING TO THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST, NO MATTER HOW BADLY YOUR DOCTRINE MIGHT NEED IT TO BE.

 

[Davy]

Romans 9-11 should be read as a single unit. But for the thread at hand, I want to focus on these verses which summarize Paul's analysis of the problem:

28 In relation to the gospel they are enemies on your account, but in relation to God’s choice they are beloved on account of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. (Romans 11:28-29)​

​

so...

​

18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. (Romans 11:18)​

However... the "natural branches" of Romans 11:24 means ALL Israelites, not only... the Jews.

The Jews only make up 1/3 of all Israelites of the 'seed' of Jacob.

The majority of Israelites were the ten northern tribes of the "kingdom of Israel", and God scattered them first, and they lost their heritage as being part of Israel. Yet God shows in final He will gather them back to the holy land and join them again with Judah.

Thus those of Judah need to learn to stick to what GOD says in His Word about this matter, and stop trying to play 'me, me, me' ideas about themselves that are false.

 

[David in NJ]

There is no "Israel of the flesh". That would be those of Jacob born over the last 3500 years. The remnant of Jacob is the Israel of God. The church did exist in the OT in Christ as those who were circumcised of the heart, who remained faithful. The church was always in Christ, not solely in Israel. Israel are those of God who make up the living remnant. Until the Cross, they waited as souls in Abraham's bosom. After the Cross they have enjoyed Paradise physically and that heavenly temple, serving God day and night for 1993 years.

Romans 9:6
But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God;
but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

@Timtofly says: "There is no Israel of the flesh"

Does your statement agree or disagree with the Holy Scriptures?

 

[Zao is life]

God does see a Jew who is in Christ. One does not lose their earthly identity when they believe in God.

Only because we are still in our bodies of flesh and blood. Therefore there is neither Chinese person, nor German in Christ. There is neither Frenchman, nor Maori in Christ. There is neither Jew, nor Arab in Christ. There is neither Israeli, nor Palestinian in Christ, for we are all one in Christ Jesus, for "There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in you all." Ephesians 4:4-6.

God the Father sees only Christ, the last Adam, when He looks at all those who are in the last Adam through their faith in Him, but In the world there is still a distinction between Chinese person and German, Frenchman and Maori, Jew and Arab, Israeli and Palestinian, because we are still in our bodies of flesh and blood.​

Hope this helps.

 

[Zao is life]

You apparently cannot biblically prove that ALL the parables of Christ are given to point us to the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God using earthly, familiar examples of things that we might know His Kingdom has come.

As you correctly state above, it's not biblically provable that every comparison/parable Jesus ever made was "given to point us to the spiritual Kingdom of God using earthly, familiar examples of things that we might know His Kingdom has come."

So you correctly state that I cannot prove it biblically. I never even tried to, so I don't know why you are even saying so. It's you who's been trying unsuccessfully to prove it biblically.​

THE PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE, LIKE ALL CHRIST'S PARABLES SHOWS US HOW WE MIGHT KNOW HIS SPIRITUAL KINGDOM HAS COME, AND IS NOT REFERRING TO THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST, NO MATTER HOW BADLY YOUR DOCTRINE MIGHT NEED IT TO BE.

As I've shown numerous times - and as is obvious in the passage to almost anyone who reads the passage - the parable of the fig tree putting out leaves causing us to know that summer is near is given by Jesus and said in the context of us knowing that His kingdom IS NEAR (not has come) when we see the signs He had just given of His Kingdom being NEAR.

Read the text again. In all three synoptic gospels. The context is not His Kingdom HAS COME in any one of them - in each one it's He IS NEAR, even at the doors.

So as the text shows (not me, but the text), It's not "my doctrine", and you're the one who desperately needs the parable of a fig tree in the Olivet Discourse to be pointing us to the fact that the Kingdom of Christ has come.
​

29 And He spoke a parable to them: Behold the fig-tree and all the trees.
30 Now when they sprout leaves, seeing it you will know that summer is now near.
31 So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
Luke 21

Your argument is that the text above should say, "the Kingdom of God HAS COME".

Well, that's not what the text says, no matter how badly you need it to say so.

We're going around in circles with this and you brought it up in this thread, so hopefully you will be the first one to get out of your roundabout.​

 

[David in NJ]

As you correctly state above, it's not biblically provable that every comparison/parable Jesus ever made was "given to point us to the spiritual Kingdom of God using earthly, familiar examples of things that we might know His Kingdom has come."

So you correctly state that I cannot prove it biblically. I never even tried to, so I don't know why you are even saying so. It's you who's been trying unsuccessfully to prove it biblically.

As I've shown numerous times - and as is obvious in the passage to almost anyone who reads the passage - the parable of the fig tree putting out leaves causing us to know that summer is near is given by Jesus and said in the context of us knowing that His kingdom IS NEAR (not has come) when we see the signs He had just given of His Kingdom being NEAR.

Read the text again. In all three synoptic gospels. The context is not His Kingdom HAS COME in any one of them - in each one it's He IS NEAR, even at the doors.

So as the text shows (not me, but the text), It's not "my doctrine", and you're the one who desperately needs the parable of a fig tree in the Olivet Discourse to be pointing us to the fact that the Kingdom of Christ has come.
​

29 And He spoke a parable to them: Behold the fig-tree and all the trees.
30 Now when they sprout leaves, seeing it you will know that summer is now near.
31 So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
Luke 21

Your argument is that the text above should say, "the Kingdom of God HAS COME".

Well, that's not what the text says, no matter how badly you need it to say so.

We're going around in circles with this and you brought it up in this thread, so hopefully you will be the first one to get out of your roundabout.​

i am looking forward to the Resurrection (should the Lord tarry)

 

[covenantee]

I'm tired of your P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C accusations and insinuations.

I have not reported your many personal attacks calling me a liar yet. I should have, but I've realized how lame your false accusations and insinuations are. However, call me a liar one more time or make any more personal attacks, and I will report it.

Asking me if I'm a JW is not a personal attack but it is another one of your red herrings.

Your MO is just like the MO of a Christ-hating Orthodox Rabbinical student in Jerusalem I debated with once in another forum. I only continued because in his stupidity and without realizing it he was giving me the opportunity to share the gospel from scripture with anyone else who might read the conversation. I was hoping any Jewish person who might read would check up on the scriptures I was quoting.

Your MO is EXACTLY the same as that Christ-hating Orthodox Rabbi I'm talking about. To be honest you haven't given me any evidence that you are a "Bible-believing Gentile" as you claim, and that you include the New Testament and not just the Tanach in your word "Bible". You sound to me like another one of those Orthodox Rabbi students, except that this time you are masquerading as a Christian, because the things you say, your denial of the one and only true gospel, and your childish comments are almost the same, and produced by the same spirit, because the disposition behind your words is the opposite of the fruit of the Spirit.

So I'm placing you on ignore (again, for the second time). I don't want to read your posts anymore, because your disposition and false accusations, repeatedly calling Christ's flock liars etc etc, is disrespectful to God the Father, to the Lord Jesus Christ, and to the entire body of Christ.

Goodbye.​

I'm rather certain that his "bible" is not even the "Tanach", but rather the "Talmud".

 

[Jack]

I'm rather certain that his "bible" is not even the "Tanach", but rather the "Talmud".

Wrong as usual. You're not Israel!

 

[covenantee]

Wrong as usual. You're not Israel!

The talmud is the bible of antichrists.

 

[Jack]

The talmud is the bible of antichrists.

So, Israel wannabees use the Talmud?