How Evil Are Humans?

[amigo de christo]

You posted your commentary....what you believe of Adam and Eve....I don’t agree with it...they never knew what die meant....” My Opinion “....

There is no scripture that says Adam and Eve knew what “ DIE” meant....None!!


10
In Genesis 2, God warns Adam not to eat of a certain tree and threatens punishment or consequences if he disobeys:

However there is no hint of death in the creation accounts: it seems to enter the picture only after the act of disobedience. In which case how could Adam have understood the threat, having never seen an example of death..

Whether or not they knew what die meant , i trow not .
I dont know that answer . But this i DO KNOW .
THEY DID KNOW NOT to eat of it . GOD had told them that . DO NOT eat of it .
That they knew .

 

[Ritajanice]

Whether or not they knew what die meant , i trow not .
I dont know that answer . But this i DO KNOW .
THEY DID KNOW NOT to eat of it . GOD had told them that . DO NOT eat of it .
That they knew .

Indeed, but tell me, how many times were you told not to do something growing up by your parents?

Did we listen...I did sometimes..sometimes I disobeyed them...I never knew what the consequences would be...only after the disobedience.....that’s how I learnt.

Right and wrong..needs to be instilled into us at an early age and also explained what the consequences would be .....there were some things that it seemed I would naturally not do.....

Must be something to do with our nature..do you think?

Do you also think that , the way we are treated growing up affects our nature?

Like bad experiences can turn us bitter?

Do we mould our own nature?

 

[amigo de christo]

Indeed, but tell me, how many times were you told not to do something growing up by your parents?

Did we listen...I did sometimes..sometimes I disobeyed them...I never knew what the consequences would be...only after the disobedience.....that’s how I learnt.

Right and wrong..needs to be instilled into us at an early age and also explained what the consequences would be .....there were some things that it seemed I would naturally not do.....

Must be something to do with our nature..do you think?

Do you also think that , the way we are treated growing up affects our nature?

Like bad experiences can turn us bitter?

Do we mould our own nature?

RAISE those chiltlins up in the WAY of the LORD .
We , christains , should be raising our housholds up in the glorious ways of the LORD .
We have what is known as a contrary nature , aka the flesh .
But here is some food for thought my dear friend . Many folks ponder
that somehow GOD created lucifer with inquity .
That be not the case . Lucifer , as well as man was made upright .
For example the act of desiring to be above all it is not sin . NOT FOR GOD TO DO SO
but it is SIN for lucifer to have done so . See .
While its not SIN for the CREATOR to desire to be above all , to desire HIS OWN GLORY .
I TELL us all it is for the created to do so . That is how inquity was born . in the heart of the dragon .
WHEN GOD says TO DO , lambs gonna do . Be encouraged dear sister .
I dont know why folks are striving over things that they dont even fully understand .
THIS I DO KNOW . The FIRST ADAM FAILED , the SECOND , which is the LORD prevailed . GUESS which one
i am gonna cling too . a hint NOT MY SELF , BUT TO CHRIST JESUS THE GLORIOUS KING . now LIFT those hands
for it is LORD praising time yet again in the building . Do be encouraged . MAN failed , GOD PREVAILED .
And unto all who do BELIEVE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND they shall not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Indeed, but tell me, how many times were you told not to do something growing up by your parents?

Did we listen...I did sometimes..sometimes I disobeyed them...I never knew what the consequences would be...only after the disobedience.....that’s how I learnt.

Right and wrong..needs to be instilled into us at an early age and also explained what the consequences would be .....there were some things that it seemed I would naturally not do.....

Must be something to do with our nature..do you think?

Do you also think that , the way we are treated growing up affects our nature?

Like bad experiences can turn us bitter?

Do we mould our own nature?

I have a quick question . Its one i want us all to ponder on for a while .
How come we can see problems in the natural that would not work
and yet when it comes to church sayings its like BAM IT GOES RIGHT OUT THE DOOR , aka our heads.
Example time .
How many times have we heard JUDGE NOT , JUDGE NOT
when one even tries to correct a member in error .
And yet if that be the case then the next time your child or anyone does something wrong
and you dare to correct that child , DONT JUDGE , DONT JUDGE .
HOW do you think that would have worked out with our own children . THEY would have been raised hellions
who simply did as they felt was right to do .
AND YET in lots of churches if a man dares to warn against sin and error , its judge not , judge not .
EVER wonder WHY the churches have fallen away so fast . SO TOO would our own children
wax worse and worse IF we did not correct them for their own errors . WELL SO GOES THE CHURCHES who do not correct .

 

[CadyandZoe]

humans were in the image of God in their moral, spiritual, and intellectual nature.


Yet, the fall interfered with that.....we inherited that sin....therefore in the flesh/ fallen nature ....we paid the price for Adam and Eve sin?

Best I can explain it....of course I don’t fully comprehend why we inherited their sin...do you?

Why did we have to suffer because of their mistake?

According to my beliefs, I don't think that there was a "fall". Instead, I believe that God set a test for Adam and Eve by commanding them not to eat from a specific fruit tree. This test was meant for them to learn something about themselves. The test proved to them that they were sinners by nature, they were not made sinners after the fall. The test only revealed their true sinful nature.

The Bible doesn't teach the doctrine of Original sin as some religions propose. We don't suffer because of their choice, we suffer because of our own choices.

In Romans 5, Paul argues that Adam was the prototypical human being. When we look at Adam, we are looking at ourselves.

 

[amigo de christo]

According to my beliefs, I don't think that there was a "fall". Instead, I believe that God set a test for Adam and Eve by commanding them not to eat from a specific fruit tree. This test was meant for them to learn something about themselves. The test proved to them that they were sinners by nature, they were not made sinners after the fall. The test only revealed their true sinful nature.

The Bible doesn't teach the doctrine of Original sin as some religions propose. We don't suffer because of their choice, we suffer because of our own choices.

In Romans 5, Paul argues that Adam was the prototypical human being. When we look at Adam, we are looking at ourselves.

The first adam failed, the second , who is the LORD from heaven prevailed. THIS LAMB gonna cling to the KING
and be learning His pure and holy words. Now lift those hands and praise the KING .
and do remember FOR ALL have sinned. As i am SURE you alreadyknow that one .
When we look to adam we do look to self , but when we look to KING JESUS we have all that we need to overcome .
Faith , in the GLORIOUS LORD . being hearers and doers of the Word .

 

[Ritajanice]

According to my beliefs, I don't think that there was a "fall". Instead, I believe that God set a test for Adam and Eve by commanding them not to eat from a specific fruit tree. This test was meant for them to learn something about themselves. The test proved to them that they were sinners by nature, they were not made sinners after the fall. The test only revealed their true sinful nature.

The Bible doesn't teach the doctrine of Original sin as some religions propose. We don't suffer because of their choice, we suffer because of our own choices.

In Romans 5, Paul argues that Adam was the prototypical human being. When we look at Adam, we are looking at ourselves.

Interesting..I will ponder on this for a while..any questions I will get back to you...

 

[Ritajanice]

I have a quick question . Its one i want us all to ponder on for a while .
How come we can see problems in the natural that would not work
and yet when it comes to church sayings its like BAM IT GOES RIGHT OUT THE DOOR , aka our heads.
Example time .
How many times have we heard JUDGE NOT , JUDGE NOT
when one even tries to correct a member in error .
And yet if that be the case then the next time your child or anyone does something wrong
and you dare to correct that child , DONT JUDGE , DONT JUDGE .
HOW do you think that would have worked out with our own children . THEY would have been raised hellions
who simply did as they felt was right to do .
AND YET in lots of churches if a man dares to warn against sin and error , its judge not , judge not .
EVER wonder WHY the churches have fallen away so fast . SO TOO would our own children
wax worse and worse IF we did not correct them for their own errors . WELL SO GOES THE CHURCHES who do not correct .

I’m not in control of the congregation,Brother....only those who are in authority are..as to what goes on in God’s church.

I can remember someone saying to me...that a gay couple were welcome into the church...but, the Pastor told them he didn’t agree with their sin.

Should we excommunicate gays and lesbians from the church if they profess to being believers?

 

[Ritajanice]

When we look to adam we do look to self , but when we look to KING JESUS we have all that we need to overcome .

Praise God!!....Amen!!

 

[Timtofly]

Oh gosh...Adam lacked faith..now, please prove that Adam lacked faith, using scripture please?

Adam was meant to fall...imo...nothing biblical, just an opinion , like yours.

He disobeyed God. If he had faith, he would have continued to obey God.

You deny Adam knew about death, and now you deny Adam lacked faith. The only choice Adam had was to continue in faith, and obey God. Adam chose not to exercise faith.

If God has given you something to do, and you continue to obey, is that you exercising faith, or your own proud will? Having faith is giving God all the credit. Adam disobeyed and got all the credit for not having faith, and allowing sin to enter the world.

 

[Timtofly]

So? Who said anything about gathering a bunch of fruit ?

You did. You claim Adam had opportunity to eat from the tree.

Adam had physical eyes in his God given incorruptible physical body. Adam still had eyes in his dead corruptible flesh. The physical death was the soul changing bodies. Don't you understand that this dead physical body you currently exist in does not change? You get a different incorruptible physical body from God, and the body from Adam is destroyed. That is how Adam physically died. The reverse process that will make you eternally alive.

Read 2 Corinthians 5:1 to open your eyes like Adam's eyes were opened in his dead body. Knowledge does not come from eating fruit. It comes from the Word of God.

God spoke that Adam would die, and God's Word happened as God said it would.

 

[Behold]

It can be a shock to "polite society" for them to find out that Satan is their spiritual Father, until they are born again, by another Spiritual Father.

And, its also a fact, that most Christians, didn't realize that is what happened to them, when they trusted in Christ and were BORN... again, by a NEW DADDY,, a different ABBA, = their Heavenly Father... The Father of JESUS The Lord.

See, Reader... this is why Christ tells us that "you MUST be BORN AGAIN"... as if you are not, then the Devil remains your spiritual father, and you will never go to heaven, with that one as your spiritual Parent.

Being born again, is to change spiritual Fathers.., and that is why it redirects where you end up, after you die.

 

[Timtofly]

Where did you read this?

What point was made in Genesis 3?


You seem to be arguing from the absence of evidence.

I gave the evidence from God's Word. Seems you all think it is my opinion. You all are stuck in human opinion and evidently cannot see what God's Word does declare.

I can only point out the verses. If you all cannot see what they say, then you are blinded by human theology.

 

[amigo de christo]

I’m not in control of the congregation,Brother....only those who are in authority are..as to what goes on in God’s church.

I can remember someone saying to me...that a gay couple were welcome into the church...but, the Pastor told them he didn’t agree with their sin.

Should we excommunicate gays and lesbians from the church if they profess to being believers?

Correct you are not IN CONTROL of the leaders of said congregation . But when or if you notice error
you can report it to the leaders . THEN pay special attention to what next gets said.
IF THEY make any excuse to not correct the error or sin . YOU GOT A BIG PROBLEM on your hands at that point .
IT means your leadership has been infected . NOW if the leaders hear the report and do make correction
you can remain . BUT IF IT wont hear , IF they make excuse , YA BETTER RUN OUT THEM DOORS
and on your way out TAKE ANY AND ALL You can with you .
YOU SEE i already knew and know something . Not one church is perfect , meaning
members in it are going to need some correction . BUT IF THE LEADERSHIP be in error and wont, key word WONT , repent
but rather make excuse , WE GOT US A PROBLEM in the house .
Now if the leadership is strong in the LORD and does correct as it should , OF COURSE we remain to help .
BUT if leadership wont correct and wont repent of error , RUN , and dont be as the wife of LOTT either
GET OUT and dont look back .

 

[Ritajanice]

He disobeyed God. If he had faith, he would have continued to obey God.

You deny Adam knew about death, and now you deny Adam lacked faith. The only choice Adam had was to continue in faith, and obey God. Adam chose not to exercise faith.

If God has given you something to do, and you continue to obey, is that you exercising faith, or your own proud will? Having faith is giving God all the credit. Adam disobeyed and got all the credit for not having faith, and allowing sin to enter the world.

Then produce scripture to back up your “ man made” commentary....

Instead of expressing your own “ opinion “...

 

[CadyandZoe]

I gave the evidence from God's Word. Seems you all think it is my opinion. You all are stuck in human opinion and evidently cannot see what God's Word does declare.

I can only point out the verses. If you all cannot see what they say, then you are blinded by human theology.

I read your post #375. Your essential argument seems to be that since Genesis didn't record a death in the earlier chapters, then a death didn't occur. Is that it? If not, then what is your point?

What is the logical conclusion from the idea that Adam didn't understand what death is? God specified death as a consequence, but it did not deter Adam from future behavior since he didn't fully understand the concept of death. Was that true? I don't think so.


My First argument is this.

Unknown consequences are not a deterrent to future behavior. God specified death as a consequence. Therefore, Adam understood what death is.

Second argument.
Suppose Adam had not understood the meaning of the word "die. His curiosity would have led him to eat from the Tree to explore the unknown as uncertainty fuels the desire to discover new things. This would infer that God wanted Adam to eat from the Tree.

God did not want Adam to eat from the tree. He is not a tempter toward evil. Therefore God did not leave the true nature of death as an uncertainty.

 

[Timtofly]

Then produce scripture to back up your “ man made” commentary....

Instead of expressing your own “ opinion “...

I did. Obviously you were focused on me and not the Word of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

I did. Obviously you were focused on me and not the Word of God.

You have done no such thing....

 

[Timtofly]

You have done no such thing....

Still focused on me.....

 

[Taken]

You did. You claim Adam had opportunity to eat from the tree.

I said nothing about gather any fruit.
Scripture reveals Adam had opportunity AFTER having been discovered he ate from the tree of good and evil and BEFORE he was Sent out of the Garden to ALSO eat from the tree of life. And I gave you the Scriptural references of verification.
I trust to believe Scripture, rather than you.