The Last and Final Evil Kingdom of Daniel

[ewq1938]

Christ was the first fruits of the "first" resurrection and the church is the "latter" fruits of that same "first" resurrection, that is the order. The second resurrection will be after the millennium.

The only use of "first resurrection" comes from Rev 20 where it is a reference to the first of two groups of the dead that are brought back to physical life.

 

[ewq1938]

When you really look at it I believe there are 3 1260 day events and the 70th week, when understood just doesn't add up to two equal 1260 day halves as I said in the post I just replied to. I hope you recognize, which many folks don't, is that the woe of Rev. 12 is the 'third" woe that was prophesied.

The 3rd woe is the 7th trump second coming but Rev 12 is before the GT. Only the 5th trump could possibly take place in that part of Rev 12. I don't believe the use of the word "woe" in Rev 12 is intended to be one of the 3 woe trumpets. Woe is a warning, not only something associated with those 3 last trumpets.

 

[Zao is life]

What this means for the Dan.11 AOD prophecy, is that to fulfill it for the end like Jesus said in Matthew 24:15, a standing Jewish temple must exist in Jerusalem for the end, and with the daily sacrifice re-established. And that means re-established old covenant worship by the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem for the end of this world.

I understand the reasoning behind what you say above.

But I have a problem with the fact that Paul used the word naos for 'temple' in 2 Thess 2:4, and this is why:

It also just so happens that the gospels use the word hieron in reference to the phyiscal temple complex, and noas in reference to the holy place/most holy place, and this is confirmed by the fact that every time it's written that Jesus entered or was standing in the temple, the word hieron is used - Jesus was not a priest in terms of Mosaic law and was not allowed into the naos of the Jerusalem temple.

In the gospels, the last time the New Testament uses the word naos in reference to the holy place in the Jerusalem temple, is in the verses which talk about the tearing of the veil in that temple. After this (and without fail) every time the holy sanctuary/temple of God is being spoken of as the New Testament Temple, the word used in the New Testament is naos (including by Paul), whereas every time the Jerusalem temple complex is spoken of (including by Paul), the word used, is hieron (multiple time in Acts).

Even the times that the Jewish religious leaders accused Paul of defiling the Jerusalem temple and called it the holy place or "this holy place", the Greek uses neither the word naos, nor the word hieron in reference to the temple in Jerusalem. instead, the Greek uses the words "hagios" (holy) "topos" (place).

Paul speaks about the individual bodies of the saints being the temple (naos) of God as well as the church as the temple (naos) of God a number of times, each time using the word naos. The one time Paul refers to the physical temple in Jerusalem, he used the word hieron.

The Revelation uses the word naos in reference to the heavenly temple/temple in heaven multiple times. Not once does it use the word hieron - not even in Revelation 11:1-2.

And the Revelation calls New Jerusalem the holy city three times directly, but not once does it call Babylon the Great or the cities of the nations that fell when the 7th bowl was poured out, or the city spiritually called sodom an Egypt, by the title "the holy city".

Revelation 11
1 And a reed like a rod was given to me. And the angel stood, saying, Rise up and measure the temple (naos) of God, and the altar, and those who worship in it.
2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple (naos), and do not measure it, for it was given to the nations. And they will trample the holy city forty-two months.

Revelation calls New Jerusalem the holy city three times directly, aside from the above.

So besides Revelation 11:1-2, 2 Thess 2:4 might be the only other verse in the entire New Testament that's an exception to the 100% consistent rule of the New Testament never referring to the temple in Jerusalem as the naos again after the verses talking about the tearing of the veil in the Jerusalem temple, and this includes the way Paul used the words naos in his own references to the sanctuary/temple of God and hieron in his reference to the temple in Jerusalem.

2 Thess 2
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple (naos) of God, setting himself forth, that he is God.

Naos refers to the sanctuary of God in the New Testament. Jesus entered only into the hieron. Not one verse that speaks about Jesus in the temple in Jerusalem uses the word naos. But every verse that uses the word naos in the gospels (until the tearing of the veil), is talking about the sanctuary - except when Jesus referred to His own body as the temple (naos) of God - the word used in those verses is also naos.

SO if it weren't for the above fact, I would accept that the temple that is going to be defiled as per Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thess 2:4, is highly likely a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

But I think we should ask ourselves what God regards as HIS Temple.

 

[Davy]

I am not KJ only but I've found that the KJ gives the best overall consistent narrative of God's schedule of events. With that said, there is no specific AoD in Dan. 8 or 9, it is only found in Dan. 11: 31 and 12:11.

Yes the abomination idol event is also being described in Dan.8 and Dan.9. I showed the Dan.8 Scripture that points to, because that "little horn" that ends the daily sacrifice is the same event as in Dan.9:27 and Dan.11:31.

So since you disregard simple Scripture like that in favor of something else, then we're done. Don't ask about this again.

 

[Davy]

I understand the reasoning behind what you say above.

But I have a problem with the fact that Paul used the word naos for 'temple' in 2 Thess 2:4, and this is why:

It also just so happens that the gospels use the word hieron in reference to the phyiscal temple complex, and noas in reference to the holy place/most holy place, and this is confirmed by the fact that every time it's written that Jesus entered or was standing in the temple, the word hieron is used - Jesus was not a priest in terms of Mosaic law and was not allowed into the naos of the Jerusalem temple.

I think we've been over all that before, some men that try to use 'root fallacy' to try and change Apostle Paul's pointing to a Jewish stone temple with his "temple of God" phrase in 2 Thess.2. Greek naos is also a word used for the Jerusalem physical temple in many places in the New Testament, even when quoting Jesus Himself. A Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, or The Englishman's Concordance simply reveals this. So I don't have time to argue your point, for it is an idea some men created. Paul's meaning is a literal physical stone Jewish temple existing for the end, and has nothing to do with the spiritual temple in Jesus Christ.

 

[ScottA]

Christ was the first fruits of the "first" resurrection and the church is the "latter" fruits of that same "first" resurrection, that is the order. The second resurrection will be after the millennium.

Those things are not incorrect. But you have not accurately addressed Paul's comment ("but each one in his own order") referring or clarifying that even though he had just grouped the dead and the living in Christ together to generalize and simplify his explanation--his clarification comment is that in spite of what he just said...the coming of Christ's return (as it were) is an "individual" event over all of time--which is the literal translation of "each one" used in the original language.

As for the "millennium", that is also greatly misunderstood.

 

[Davy]

When you really look at it I believe there are 3 1260 day events and the 70th week, when understood just doesn't add up to two equal 1260 day halves as I said in the post I just replied to. I hope you recognize, which many folks don't, is that the woe of Rev. 12 is the 'third" woe that was prophesied.

Are you making up that idea of THREE 1260 day events? That is not written involving the final "one week" of Daniel 9:27. Nor is it an idea in Revelation.

The Daniel 9:27 verse is the strongest evidence that "one week" represents a period of 7 years, and in the middle of that "one week" the daily sacrifices in Jerusalem are ended and the abomination idol being placed instead. Those events are repeated in Dan.8, Dan.11, and Dan.12, so really one has no excuse to insert or add another 1260 day period.


Regarding the "Woe" of Rev.12:12, if that is linked to any of the 3 Woes in Rev.8, Rev.9, and Rev.11, then it would have to be the 2nd Woe period...

Rev 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV

That "short time" is about the time at the end of this world that Jesus called "great tribulation", and in Daniel 12 is called "a time of trouble." Rev.13:4-8 reveals Satan will have power over the nations and the saints for 42 months (1260 days, pointing to the latter half of the Dan.9:27 symbolic "one week" of 7 years).

That 42 months short time that Satan is to have at the end of this world is also that 42 months the Gentiles are given to tread the holy city per Rev.11:2, and is also the time at the end when God's "two witnesses" appear in Jerusalem to prophesy against the beast for 1260 days (same as 42 months). Those events happen within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period.

Beginning of The 2nd Woe:

Rev 9:12-16
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
KJV

That 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period begins there at Rev.9:12 and flows all the way to Rev.11:14. That is "great tribulation" timing. It is when Satan and his angels are booted out of Heaven down to this earth which is what begins the latter 1260 days of the "great tribulation".

That means then, there is NO THREE 1260 day periods, but ONLY TWO as written. The "Woe" of Rev.12:12 is only connected with the latter 1260 day period (or 42 months) when Satan and his angelic host come to reign on earth at the very end of this present world prior to Christ's coming to gather His Church.

 

[Davy]

And the Revelation calls New Jerusalem the holy city three times directly, but not once does it call Babylon the Great or the cities of the nations that fell when the 7th bowl was poured out, or the city spiritually called sodom an Egypt, by the title "the holy city".

Revelation 11
1 And a reed like a rod was given to me. And the angel stood, saying, Rise up and measure the temple (naos) of God, and the altar, and those who worship in it.
2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple (naos), and do not measure it, for it was given to the nations. And they will trample the holy city forty-two months.

Revelation calls New Jerusalem the holy city three times directly, aside from the above.

Like I said, word fallacy with the false argument over the Greek words used for "temple" is what is causing you to err with interpreting those Scriptures.

The 1260 days God's "two witnesses" appear in Jerusalem to prophesy against the beast, AND work plagues similar to what God did through Moses and Aaron in Old Testament times, is that same 42 months period there in Rev.11:2 when the Gentiles will tread the "holy city".

Why is "holy city" used to point to Jerusalem in a fallen state at that time? Because it is simply to reveal... what Satan's host are going to do to Jerusalem at that time, the very place on earth where GOD Himself chose to dwell forever.

So what if it were written instead like you are wrongly thinking, like just as "the city", instead of "the holy city"? Would it be understood that JERUSALEM is the city where that prophecy is about with just saying "the city"? No, of course not, because just as "the city" one could in error apply that event to Rome, New York, Brussels, or any other city on earth.

Your error is the same kind of problem with Apostle Paul's "temple of God" in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 which shows the coming Antichrist will sit in to play God for the coming tribulation. You really need to study and heed what God said about Jerusalem in a fallen worship state per the Ezekiel 16 Chapter. That would put things in proper perspective in your mind if you would heed what God said there.

Rev 11:7-8
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

Even the above Scripture emphatically points directly to JERUSALEM as that "holy city" of Rev.11, and even calls Jerusalem in the symbolic false worship sense as "Sodom and Egypt" at that future time! Why? Because at that time is when Satan and his host will reign for 42 months there at the end of this world.

So yeah, the "temple of God" and "the HOLY city" does... mean JERUSALEM for the end, but in a fallen condition of IDOL WORSHIP, just like it has fallen to many, many times in past history.

But this last time, at the very end of this world, it will be Satan and his host attempting to set themselves up there in JERUSALEM on earth for the last days just prior to Christ's return to end it.

 

[Trekson]

The only use of "first resurrection" comes from Rev 20 where it is a reference to the first of two groups of the dead that are brought back to physical life.

Rev. 20 isn't a timing it's just explaining where they came from. What do you think Christ was the "firstfruits" of? The passage is speaking of resurrections.

 

[Trekson]

Are you making up that idea of THREE 1260 day events? That is not written involving the final "one week" of Daniel 9:27. Nor is it an idea in Revelation.

The Daniel 9:27 verse is the strongest evidence that "one week" represents a period of 7 years, and in the middle of that "one week" the daily sacrifices in Jerusalem are ended and the abomination idol being placed instead. Those events are repeated in Dan.8, Dan.11, and Dan.12, so really one has no excuse to insert or add another 1260 day period.


Regarding the "Woe" of Rev.12:12, if that is linked to any of the 3 Woes in Rev.8, Rev.9, and Rev.11, then it would have to be the 2nd Woe period...

Rev 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV

That "short time" is about the time at the end of this world that Jesus called "great tribulation", and in Daniel 12 is called "a time of trouble." Rev.13:4-8 reveals Satan will have power over the nations and the saints for 42 months (1260 days, pointing to the latter half of the Dan.9:27 symbolic "one week" of 7 years).

That 42 months short time that Satan is to have at the end of this world is also that 42 months the Gentiles are given to tread the holy city per Rev.11:2, and is also the time at the end when God's "two witnesses" appear in Jerusalem to prophesy against the beast for 1260 days (same as 42 months). Those events happen within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period.

Beginning of The 2nd Woe:

Rev 9:12-16
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
KJV

That 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period begins there at Rev.9:12 and flows all the way to Rev.11:14. That is "great tribulation" timing. It is when Satan and his angels are booted out of Heaven down to this earth which is what begins the latter 1260 days of the "great tribulation".

That means then, there is NO THREE 1260 day periods, but ONLY TWO as written. The "Woe" of Rev.12:12 is only connected with the latter 1260 day period (or 42 months) when Satan and his angelic host come to reign on earth at the very end of this present world prior to Christ's coming to gather His Church.

The woes are in the context of the 5th, 6th and 7th trump. Rev. 12:12 is indeed the third. I believe there is a reason God worded things differently, time, times and 1/2 a time, 42 months and 1260 days. There is no prophecy that says the GT is the latter half of the week as I've explained the word "midst" can mean any time in the context of. That is man's presumption. Yes, two equal 1260 day periods make a pretty mathematical picture but not an accurate prophetic one, imo. Having three 1260 day periods doesn't extend the 70th week it just includes them. The bible doesn't divide them up, in the way that is commonly accepted, man does.

 

[Trekson]

Those things are not incorrect. But you have not accurately addressed Paul's comment ("but each one in his own order") referring or clarifying that even though he had just grouped the dead and the living in Christ together to generalize and simplify his explanation--his clarification comment is that in spite of what he just said...the coming of Christ's return (as it were) is an "individual" event over all of time--which is the literal translation of "each one" used in the original language.

As for the "millennium", that is also greatly misunderstood.

Sorry Scott, but most folks would assume that yours is the inaccurate take on scripture. Christ was the first one resurrected and those who came out of the graves with him, the next 'order" is the resurrection of the church, in a split second, the dead in Christ are resurrected first then we who are alive "immediately" follow them to meet the Lord in the air which is called the rapture. The "one" doesn't mean an individual but a "group".

 

[Trekson]

Yes the abomination idol event is also being described in Dan.8 and Dan.9. I showed the Dan.8 Scripture that points to, because that "little horn" that ends the daily sacrifice is the same event as in Dan.9:27 and Dan.11:31.

So since you disregard simple Scripture like that in favor of something else, then we're done. Don't ask about this again.

Sorry but ending the daily sacrifice is most certainly "not" the AoD. That is a specific event depicted in Rev. 13:14-15 in which the image of the a/c is set up. AE's erection of the image of Zeus in the temple is the "type" for what we are to look for. The AoD is something that is against God and while Israel may resume sacrifices, God most certainly won't honor them. Israel is presently an antichrist nation and the resuming of sacrifices wouldn't change that so taking them away wouldn't offend God in the slightest.

 

[Trekson]

The 3rd woe is the 7th trump second coming but Rev 12 is before the GT. Only the 5th trump could possibly take place in that part of Rev 12. I don't believe the use of the word "woe" in Rev 12 is intended to be one of the 3 woe trumpets. Woe is a warning, not only something associated with those 3 last trumpets.

There is no coming at the 7th trump, what is being said in Rev. 11:15 is a speaking "forward in faith". The rapture/harvest is in Rev. 14. His return is basically imminent at Rev. 11 but first the harvest, then the vials, then Armageddon. There is no physical return before Armageddon.

 

[Zao is life]

Greek naos is also a word used for the Jerusalem physical temple in many places in the New Testament

Only until the verses talking about the tearing of the veil. Not after that. It's not a fallacy. Ignoring the facts about it in order to hold onto the notion that it's a physical temple in Jerusalem being spoken of in 2 Thess 2:4 is a fallacy. In this case you are the one holding onto a fallacy.

[Strongs Greek Dictionary] 02411 (English: Temple)
ἱερόν hierón, hee-er-on' neuter of 2413; a sacred place, i.e. the entire precincts, whereas 3485 [naós] denotes the central sanctuary itself (of the Temple in Jerusalem, or elsewhere).

EVERY reference to Jesus entering the temple in the gospels uses the word hieron (without exception). Jesus was not a priest according to Mosaic law and was not allowed into the holy place (naos). This is a clear indication that naos refers only to the holy place|actual sanctuary of God in the temple.

The New Testament makes a distinction between a made-with-human hands building (G2411 hieron) on one hand, and the (G3485 naos) sanctuary of God on the other hand, where God's Spirit dwells:

The last time that the New Testament uses the word naós in reference to the temple in Jerusalem, is in the verses in the Gospels which tell about the tearing of the veil between that holy place / holy of holies, which occurred when Jesus died on the cross:-

Temple complex (word used: hierón)

Matthew 4:5; Matthew 12:5-6; Matthew 21:12; Matthew 21:14-15; Matthew 21:23; Matthew 24:1; Matthew 26:55; Mark 11:11 & 15-16; Mark 11:27; Mark 12:35; Mark 13:1 & 3; Mark 14:49; Luke 2:27, 37 & 46; Luke 4:9; Luke 18:10; Luke 19:45 & 47; Luke 20:1 & 5; Luke 21:37-38; Luke 22:52-53; John 2:14-15; John 5:14; John 7:14 & 28; John 8:2, 20 & 59; John 10:23; John 11:56; John 18:20.

-- The veil torn --

-- the temple complex in Jerusalem--
(hierón)

Luke 24:53; Acts 2:46; Acts 3:1-3, 8 & 10; Acts 4:1; Acts 5:20-21 & 24-25; Acts 5:42; Acts 21:26-30; Acts 22:17; Acts 24:6, 12 & 18; Acts 25:8; Acts 26:21; 1 Corinthians 9:13.

The actual sanctuary of God (word used: naós)

-- in the temple complex --

Luke 1:9 & 21-22; Matthew 23:16-17 & 21; Matthew 23:35; Matthew 27:5.

-- Body of Christ --

John 2:19 & 21; Matthew 26:61; Matthew 27:40; Mark 14:58; Mark 15:29

-- The veil torn -- (word used: naós)

Matthew 27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45

After the verses talking about the tearing of the veil in the temple, the first time the word naos is used again, is in Acts:

Acts 7:48a
But, the Most High does not dwell in temples (Greek: naos) made with hands.

Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of Heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples (Greek naos) made with hands.

-- the church & the temple in heaven -- (word used: naós)

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 7:15; Revelation 11:1-2; Revelation 11:19; Revelation 14:15 & Revelation 14:17; Revelation 15:5-6 & Revelation 15:8; Revelation 16:1 & Revelation 16:17; Revelation 21:22

* Only once in the New Testament is naós NOT referring to the sanctuary of God: Acts 19:24.

Jesus said,

"For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst." (Matthew 18:20).

What the Greek calls naós in the verses referring to the New Testament Temple, consists of the living stones (1 Peter 2:5) that make up the temple:

In the New Testament Temple, any church building, including its seats or pews, its platform and its pulpit, is the equivalent of the Greek word hierón (the physical temple complex). If those who congregate there are moved to a new church building, the "hierón" will still be standing, but the naós will have left the premises, never to return.

Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:4

When Paul wrote his letters to the churches at Corinth, Ephesus and Thessaloniki, he used the word hierón in reference to the temple in Jerusalem (which was still standing) (in 1 Corinthians 9:13).

However Paul consistently used the word naós when speaking about the bodies of individual Christians, and the congregations of Christians as the tabernacle (temple) of God (1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; and Ephesians 2:21-22).

So IF he was referring to a physical, man-made structure in Jerusalem in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 when talking about the man of sin seating himself up in the sanctuary of God, there is no reason why Paul would not use the word hierón - but he did not - Paul used the word naós in 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Regarding the temple in Revelation 11:1-2

The following are the only places in the New Testament where a reference is made to "the holy city":-

Matthew 4:5; Matthew 27:53;

then in the Revelation:

The "cities" mentioned in the Revelation are:-

1. "Babylon the Great".
2. The city "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt".
3. The cities of the nations which fell when the 7th bowl of wrath was poured out.
4. "New Jerusalem".

There are no verses in the Revelation where "Babylon the Great", or the city "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt", or the cities of the nations which fell when the 7th bowl of wrath was poured out,

are called "the holy city",

but the Revelation calls New Jerusalem "the holy city" three times:

Revelation 21:2; Revelation 21:10; and Revelation 22:19.

Revelation 11:2 is talking about the holy city. The temple that Revelation 11:1 is referring to is the naós - it uses the word naós for "temple".

The other city referred to in Revelation chapter 11, is referred to as a city that is "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Revelation 11:8).

There's no fallacy. The above are the facts.​

 

[ewq1938]

There is no coming at the 7th trump, what is being said in Rev. 11:15 is a speaking "forward in faith". The rapture/harvest is in Rev. 14. His return is basically imminent at Rev. 11 but first the harvest, then the vials, then Armageddon. There is no physical return before Armageddon.

Christ, the angels and the former dead and the raptured are ll coming at the 7th and last trump. This is the day of the battle of Armageddon. Rev 14 shows the rapture in symbolic form but Rev is not chronologically written and it repeats many timeframes. The second coming/rapture timeframe is found in the 6th seal, 7th trump, Rev 14, Rev 19 etc.

 

[Earburner]

How people can read this and believe it is speaking of Christ is beyond me and not the future leader of the “final kingdom” of Daniel is beyond me.

First, you must read Dan. 9:24-27 from the KJV only.
2nd. You must understand what was "determined" in verse 24 for "thy people", who was then Israel, aka the "Age of Indignation".
3rd. Don't entwine yourself with the math of calculating the 70 weeks. It is not necessary, in order to comprehend the 70th week.
4th. understand that there are two entities of the word "he": one is Jesus, and the other is the prince of Rome, being Titus in 70AD. Titus is not the focus, but rather Jesus, while in His mortal flesh, and then after His Ascension, working with the early church, confirming and establishing the NC, of which is revealed by having written down everything Jesus brought to the disciples' remembrance by His Holy Spirit.
5th. The prophecy is about the 70th week, which is said to be split in half, whereby Jesus is the performer in both. It has all been fulfilled by Jesus.
6th. Verse 27 is about the works done in verse 24 by Jesus, which is what was poured [out] upon the repentant desolate, aka the gift of God's Holy Spirit in the days of Pentecost, and now ever since, being the "Age of God's Grace", through faith in Jesus. Rev. 3:20.

 

[Trekson]

Only until the verses talking about the tearing of the veil. Not after that. It's not a fallacy. Ignoring the facts about it in order to hold onto the notion that it's a physical temple in Jerusalem being spoken of in 2 Thess 2:4 is a fallacy. In this case you are the only one holding onto a fallacy.

[Strongs Greek Dictionary] 02411 (English: Temple)
ἱερόν hierón, hee-er-on' neuter of 2413; a sacred place, i.e. the entire precincts, whereas 3485 [naós] denotes the central sanctuary itself (of the Temple in Jerusalem, or elsewhere).

EVERY reference to Jesus entering the temple in the gospels uses the word hieron (without exception). Jesus was not a priest according to Mosaic law and was not allowed into the holy place (naos). This is a clear indication that naos refers only to the holy place|actual sanctuary of God in the temple.

The New Testament makes a distinction between a made-with-human hands building (G2411 hieron) on one hand, and the (G3485 naos) sanctuary of God on the other hand, where God's Spirit dwells:

The last time that the New Testament uses the word naós in reference to the temple in Jerusalem, is in the verses in the Gospels which tell about the tearing of the veil between that holy place / holy of holies, which occurred when Jesus died on the cross:-

Temple complex (word used: hierón)

Matthew 4:5; Matthew 12:5-6; Matthew 21:12; Matthew 21:14-15; Matthew 21:23; Matthew 24:1; Matthew 26:55; Mark 11:11 & 15-16; Mark 11:27; Mark 12:35; Mark 13:1 & 3; Mark 14:49; Luke 2:27, 37 & 46; Luke 4:9; Luke 18:10; Luke 19:45 & 47; Luke 20:1 & 5; Luke 21:37-38; Luke 22:52-53; John 2:14-15; John 5:14; John 7:14 & 28; John 8:2, 20 & 59; John 10:23; John 11:56; John 18:20.

-- The veil torn --

-- the temple complex in Jerusalem--
(hierón)

Luke 24:53; Acts 2:46; Acts 3:1-3, 8 & 10; Acts 4:1; Acts 5:20-21 & 24-25; Acts 5:42; Acts 21:26-30; Acts 22:17; Acts 24:6, 12 & 18; Acts 25:8; Acts 26:21; 1 Corinthians 9:13.

The actual sanctuary of God (word used: naós)

-- in the temple complex --

Luke 1:9 & 21-22; Matthew 23:16-17 & 21; Matthew 23:35; Matthew 27:5.

-- Body of Christ --
(John 2:19 & 21; Matthew 26:61; Matthew 27:40; Mark 14:58; Mark 15:29)

-- The veil torn --
(word used: naós)
(Matthew 27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45.)

After the verses talking about the tearing of the veil in the temple, the first time the word naos is used again, is in Acts:

Acts 7:48a
But, the Most High does not dwell in temples (Greek: naos) made with hands.

Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of Heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples (Greek naos) made with hands.

-- the church & the temple in heaven --
(word used: naós)

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 7:15; Revelation 11:1-2; Revelation 11:19; Revelation 14:15 & Revelation 14:17; Revelation 15:5-6 & Revelation 15:8; Revelation 16:1 & Revelation 16:17; Revelation 21:22

* Only once in the New Testament is naós NOT referring to the sanctuary of God: Acts 19:24.

Jesus said,

"For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst." (Matthew 18:20).

What the Greek calls naós in the verses referring to the New Testament Temple, consists of the living stones (1 Peter 2:5) that make up the temple:

In the New Testament Temple, any church building, including its seats or pews, its platform and its pulpit, is the equivalent of the Greek word hierón (the physical temple complex). If those who congregate there are moved to a new church building, the "hierón" will still be standing, but the naós will have left the premises, never to return.

Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:4

When Paul wrote his letters to the churches at Corinth, Ephesus and Thessaloniki, he used the word hierón in reference to the temple in Jerusalem (which was still standing) (in 1 Corinthians 9:13).

However Paul consistently used the word naós when speaking about the bodies of individual Christians, and the congregations of Christians as the tabernacle (temple) of God (1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; and Ephesians 2:21-22).

So IF he was referring to a physical, man-made structure in Jerusalem in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 when talking about the man of sin seating himself up in the sanctuary of God, there is no reason why Paul would not use the word hierón - but he did not - Paul used the word naós in 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Regarding the temple in Revelation 11:1-2

The following are the only places in the New Testament where a reference is made to "the holy city":-

Matthew 4:5; Matthew 27:53;

then in the Revelation:

The "cities" mentioned in the Revelation are:-

1. "Babylon the Great".
2. The city "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt".
3. The cities of the nations which fell when the 7th bowl of wrath was poured out.
4. "New Jerusalem".

There are no verses in the Revelation where "Babylon the Great", or the city "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt", or the cities of the nations which fell when the 7th bowl of wrath was poured out, are called "the holy city",

but the Revelation calls New Jerusalem "the holy city" three times:

Revelation 21:2; Revelation 21:10; and Revelation 22:19.

Revelation 11:2 is talking about the holy city. The temple that Revelation 11:1 is referring to is the naós - it uses the word naós for "temple".
The other city referred to in Revelation chapter 11, is referred to as a city that is "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Revelation 11:8).

There's no fallacy. The above are the facts.

My Strong's has G2411 as the temple as a whole and G3485 as the inner sanctuary only, so Paul is speaking of the inner sanctuary of a physical temple in 2 Thess. 2:4.

 

[Trekson]

First, you must read Dan. 9:24-27 from the KJV only.
2nd. You must understand what was "determined" in verse 24 for "thy people", who was then Israel, aka the "Age of Indignation".
3rd. Don't entwine yourself with the math of calculating the 70 weeks. It is not necessary, in order to comprehend the 70th week.
4th. understand that there are two entities of the word "he": one is Jesus, and the other is the prince of Rome, being Titus in 70AD. Titus is not the focus, but rather Jesus, while in His mortal flesh, and then after His Ascension, working with the early church, confirming and establishing the NC, of which is revealed by having written down everything Jesus brought to the disciples' remembrance by His Holy Spirit.
5th. The prophecy is about the 70th week, which is said to be split in half, whereby Jesus is the performer in both. It has all been fulfilled by Jesus.
6th. Verse 27 is about the works done in verse 24 by Jesus, which is what was poured [out] upon the repentant desolate, aka the gift of God's Holy Spirit in the days of Pentecost, and now ever since, being the "Age of God's Grace", through faith in Jesus. Rev. 3:20.

With all due respect, this couldn't be more wrong. Christ is not spoken of again, "after" he is "cut off".

 

[covenantee]

First, you must read Dan. 9:24-27 from the KJV only.
2nd. You must understand what was "determined" in verse 24 for "thy people", who was then Israel, aka the "Age of Indignation".
3rd. Don't entwine yourself with the math of calculating the 70 weeks. It is not necessary, in order to comprehend the 70th week.
4th. understand that there are two entities of the word "he": one is Jesus, and the other is the prince of Rome, being Titus in 70AD. Titus is not the focus, but rather Jesus, while in His mortal flesh, and then after His Ascension, working with the early church, confirming and establishing the NC, of which is revealed by having written down everything Jesus brought to the disciples' remembrance by His Holy Spirit.
5th. The prophecy is about the 70th week, which is said to be split in half, whereby Jesus is the performer in both. It has all been fulfilled by Jesus.
6th. Verse 27 is about the works done in verse 24 by Jesus, which is what was poured [out] upon the repentant desolate, aka the gift of God's Holy Spirit in the days of Pentecost, and now ever since, being the "Age of God's Grace", through faith in Jesus. Rev. 3:20.

There is only one Individual identified as a prince in Daniel 9:24-27.

He is Messiah the Prince. Daniel 9:25

Via grammatical antecedents/referents, the prince in Daniel 9:26 is Messiah the Prince.

Via grammatical antecedents/referents, "he" in Daniel 9:27 is Messiah the Prince.

Savior confirming the New Covenant at Calvary, and Judge at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

 

[Zao is life]

My Strong's has G2411 as the temple as a whole and G3485 as the inner sanctuary only, so Paul is speaking of the inner sanctuary of a physical temple in 2 Thess. 2:4.

G3485 Naos completely stopped being used in reference to the inner sanctuary of the physical temple in Jerusalem when the veil was torn.

After that it is ONLY USED in reference to the tabernacle of God/Christ (whenever the word is used in reference to God's Temple).

Those who argue this FACT merely betray the fact that while they claim to believe Jesus and His apostles, they do not fully believe either Jesus or His apostles:

John 4
21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you shall neither worship the Father in this mountain nor yet at Jerusalem.
22 You worship what you do not know, we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to worship Him.
24 God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.
25 The woman said to Him, I know that Messiah is coming, who is called Christ. When He has come, He will tell us all things.
26 Jesus said to her, I AM, He speaking to you.

Acts 7
46 David found favor with God and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob;
47 but Solomon built Him a house.
48 But, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says,
49 "Heaven is My throne and earth is My footstool. What house will you build Me, says the Lord, or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has not My hand made all these things?"

1 Peter
5 you also as living stones are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 Therefore also it is contained in the Scripture: "Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner Stone, elect, precious, and he who believes on Him shall never be ashamed."
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Man erecting a building on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and calling it "the Temple of God" is no more the Temple of God than a Hindu Temple in India if God does not call it "My Temple", no matter how big and magnificent such a building may be.

Hence whatever idol appears in such a building in Jerusalem is no more or less of an abomination to God than an idol in a Hindu temple in India.

The naos (sanctuary of God) is where the Holy Spirit dwells. On earth it's Christ's church. Only an idol placed in God's Temple is both biblically and in reality, an abomination in the sight of God.​

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I'm not seeking for anyone to believe me when I repeat what Jesus and His apostles taught us so very clearly. I'm seeking for all to believe Jesus, as well as His apostles.​