The Last and Final Evil Kingdom of Daniel

[Trekson]

Your above hypothesis is against Christ's own claim and rule beginning 2,000 years ago, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

The actual fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy is below, not after a "gap", but as Jesus said, "has been given" (past tense). After which the nations have not experienced a "gap", but have been held in "derision." Here is the fulfillment of the kingdom of "iron and clay", and the prophecy fulfilled in Christ since that time--read the whole psalm:

Psalm 2​

Why do the nations rage,​

And the people plot a vain thing?​

2 The kings of the earth set themselves,​

And the rulers take counsel together,​

Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,​

3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces​

And cast away Their cords from us.”​

4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;​

The Lord shall hold them in derision.​

5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,​

And distress them in His deep displeasure:​

6 “Yet I have set My King​

On My holy hill of Zion.”​

7 “I will declare the decree:​

The Lord has said to Me,​

‘You are My Son,​

Today I have begotten You.​

8 Ask of Me, and I will give You​

The nations for Your inheritance,​

And the ends of the earth for Your possession.​

9 You shall break them with a rod of iron;​

You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”​

10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;​

Be instructed, you judges of the earth.​

11 Serve the Lord with fear,​

And rejoice with trembling.​

12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,​

And you perish in the way,​

When His wrath is kindled but a little.​

Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.​

This is still an unfulfilled prophecy as the earth has yet to see his wrath as described in Rev. The day of the Lord has not yet come. If it had we would not be here. Yes, the authority has been given to him but he hasn't exercised it yet.

 

[Trekson]

No cult would have said it differently.

What to believe?
Two centuries of modernist cultic dispensational delusion and deception
or
Seventeen centuries of unanimous declaration of Christ as the theme and fulfillment of Daniel 9:24 by recognized defenders of the True Faith

Who needs a hint?

Prophetically, 1948 changed the whole landscape. Refusing to accept that is just a matter of denial.

 

[Cassandra]

Right after Stephen's death, the Gospel was given to the Gentiles through Paul.

 

[Trekson]

To "suspend" a "Week" and to "subtract" a "Week" is, for me, the same thing--that's what I meant. To delay the Week's fulfillment is to separate it from the period of time Daniel indicated Israel was to wait. They were to wait not 483 years plus centuries and centuries, but only 490 years, or 486.5 years (half of the final "Week").

We disagree on the 6 things which I believe Christ was to fulfill at his earthly coming (Dan 9.24).

Yes, we disagree on how to interpret these 6 things. I believe Christ fulfilled them all at his earthly coming. Israel's sin reached its apex, and was finally dealt with, both at the Cross and in 70 AD following.

Israel was brought to the place of either submitting to Christ or suffering comprehensive national judgment. Atonement was made for an eventual national restoration however.

Messianic prophecy concerning this *legal salvation* was completely fulfilled at the cross. Christ became the source of Israel's eternal righteousness.

The Antichrist is not, in my opinion, in this passage (Dan 9.27) at all. The Roman leadership is in reference throughout, from the 4th Kingdom of Dan 2 to the 4th Kingdom of Dan 7. Here, in Dan 9, it is viewed as having a "people," or Army, that will destroy the "city and the sanctuary."

Dan 2, in my view, had 4 empires. Medo-Persia is viewed as a single empire.

We already disagreed on this. My view begins at the same place Nebuchadnezzar's Dream did, ie with the Babylonian Empire. Though by the time of Daniel's Dream the Babylonian Empire was reaching its latter stages, the idea was, I think, to reproduce the blueprint of imperial development from the Babylonian Empire in Daniel's time to the Roman Empire in the last days, which is the NT era.

The fact Dan 8 deals with only three empires only indicates that Daniel is moving on to describe empires beyond his present time. It is not a re-ordering of the 4 empires mentioned in Dan 2 and Dan 7.

I view Dan 9. 27 as addressing the Roman Empire as the "Abomination of Desolation," which Jesus referred to in his Olivest Discourse. It is very, very clear in Luke 21 that Jesus was describing the Roman desolation of Jerusalem, and the destruction of the temple, in 70 AD.

Dan 8 and Dan 11 both cover the activities of Antiochus 4. The last part of Dan 12 does, as well--the 1290 days. Dan 7 is the primary vision for the endtimes, including the 3.5 years of Antichrist's reign.

Dan. 2 had five empires, Babylon, Meda-Persia, Greece, Rome and the final ten toed kingdom which will be the a/c's. As already explained why, Babylon is the missing kingdom of Dan. 7. The AoD is one specific thing alone and it's future fulfillment is found in Rev. 13:14-15 which AE's statue of Zeus is a "type" for what we are to look for. I agree w/ Luke 21 but vss. 20-24 are a stand alone prophecy regarding that time and of course Dan. 9:26 is a prophecy about the same thing, vs. 27 is not! Matt. 24 and Mark 13 do not share this same worded prophecy and to assume they are speaking of the same thing is faulty reasoning, imo. It's the bible that divides the week into 3 different time periods, the 7 weeks, the 62 weeks and the 70th week.There is a reason the 70th week is apart from the rest. It's not brought up in the linear context until "after" the crucifixion and "after" 70ad, to put it back to 70ad isn't proper exegesis, imo. It's part of "rightly dividing the word of truth"!

 

[Trekson]

If you are going to connect Dan 11:23 with Dan 9:27 (which you should), and you connect Dan 11:22 with Dan 11:23 (which again, you should), then you should connect Dan 11:22's 'flood' with Dan 9:26's 'flood'.

You immediately jump to the conclusion that Dan 9:26 is talking about 70ad (because that is what people are told to believe) when in fact, it is part of the Revelation narrative. The 'locusts' are the 'flood of forces'. The 6th Trumpet killing of a third of mankind is the 'great tribulation' that Jesus is talking about in the Olivet discourse. THEN the false christ arrives to make the covenant (after this 'great tribulation').

The latter part of Dan. 9:26 isn't speaking of 70ad, that speaks of the end and I connect it to the "flood" of Rev. 12:15.

 

[Trekson]

View attachment 38516
Right after Stephen's death, the Gospel was given to the Gentiles through Paul.

There were several years between Stephen and Paul. The gospel was first given to the gentiles by Peter (Acts 10), Paul spoke only to Israel after his conversion but secluded himself for three years (Gal. 1:18) before he began his ministry to the gentiles.

 

[covenantee]

Prophetically, 1948 changed the whole landscape. Refusing to accept that is just a matter of denial.

1948 changed nothing in Daniel 9:24-27. Refusing to accept that is just a matter of spiritual blindness.

 

[Trekson]

Well, I don't think he will be surprised, because it is very accurate that symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27, i.e., the 70th week, is still... in the future today.

Daniel 9:27 "one week" = 7 years
7 years is divided into 2 parts, 1260 days each (also written as 3.5 years, or 42 months)

Jesus quoted from Daniel about the placing of the "abomination of desolation" event linked with the time of the "great tribulation" at the end of this world (Matthew 24:15).

The "abomination of desolation" event is also mentioned in the Daniel 8 Scripture involving the "little horn" for the END.

Dan 8:9-13
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
KJV

That in red is about the "abomination of desolation" of Daniel 11:31 which Jesus quoted about 200 years after... Antiochus had already been dead. The "league" of Daniel 11:21-23 the "vile person" will make is that "covenant" of Daniel 9:27, and it involves the re-establishing of the old covenant sacrifices and temple for the end of this world.

The "little horn" prophecy in Daniel 7 & 8 is about the final Antichrist at the END of this world. So that's 2 Bible Scripture proofs, Daniel 8 and Matthew 24:15, that reveals the "abomination of desolation" prophecy is about the END of this world, and thus makes the Daniel 9:27 Scripture about the END also.

Thanks for your support but one thing you should study on is that I believe it's wrong, is dividing the week into two equal 1260 day periods. While the word "midst" can mean "half" it can also mean any time in the context of. Yes, Rev. gives those time periods but doesn't say if they are first or last half events and I believe there is a reason they are described differently. This is what I'd like your opinion on, according to scripture, the 2300 days of Dan. 8, the "midst" of Dan. 9:27 and the 1290 days day of Dan. 12 "all" start on the same day. I also do not believe the 1290 days or the 1335 days are "outside" of the 70th week. The 70th week can't end until Israel fulfills it's goals of Dan. 9:24, especially the last three and that can't happen until "after" Armageddon, 75 days after, imo.

 

[Trekson]

1948 changed nothing in Daniel 9:24. Refusing to accept that is just a matter of spiritual blindness.

You're right, it didn't change anything about Dan. 9:24-26 at all, however it does clarify that vs. 27 is still future. The whole purpose of the 70th week is to bring Israel to point of fulfilling Zech. 12:10, 13:8-9 and Matt. 23:39. All things which "national" Israel has not yet fulfilled.

 

[covenantee]

You're right, it didn't change anything about Dan. 9:24-26 at all, however it does clarify that vs. 27 is still future. The whole purpose of the 70th week is to bring Israel to point of fulfilling Zech. 12:10, 13:8-9 and Matt. 23:39. All things which "national" Israel has not yet fulfilled.

Daniel 9:27 was fulfilled in its entirety at Calvary and in the events of 70 AD.

 

[ScottA]

This is still an unfulfilled prophecy as the earth has yet to see his wrath as described in Rev. The day of the Lord has not yet come. If it had we would not be here. Yes, the authority has been given to him but he hasn't exercised it yet.

That may be your personal testimony. But that is not my testimony or that of the great host of witnesses who are the living, to whom Jesus has come already for thousands of years, nor that of many others also who have come into His presence "today" passing from death to life.

Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Dan. 2 had five empires, Babylon, Meda-Persia, Greece, Rome and the final ten toed kingdom which will be the a/c's.

I see. Some count Media and Persia separately. But you're counting the Antichristian Empire as the 5th? OK--I understand--don't agree, but I understand.

I feel Dan 7 describes the Roman Empire as the 4th and the last Empire in this set, with the Antichristian Empire emerging out of this 4th and last imperial tradition. So I suppose one could say that the Antichristian Empire and the Roman Empire are separate empires.

But in Dan 7, the set of 4 appears to have the 4th empire as the last empire in the age. And I do believe the 4th empire is the Roman Empire, followed by the Antichristian Empire emerging out of it.

I say all this not to perpetuate our disagreement, but simply to explain our differences in light of your explanation with respect to your own position. I respect your own view. We just have different views.

I won't treat your other comments, since they've already been discussed. I was just dealing with the fact I had your position on 5 empires wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[ewq1938]

But in Dan 7, the set of 4 appears to have the 4th empire as the last empire in the age. And I do believe the 4th empire is the Roman Empire, followed by the Antichristian Empire emerging out of it.

But no kingdom emerges out of that 4th kingdom. It is defeated by God, and it's symbolic body is killed, and then given to flame and the other beasts lives are prolonged for a season and a time. No new kingdom comes from the 4th in Daniel's writing.

 

[quietthinker]

The Last and Final Evil Kingdom of Daniel​

It is the Kingdom of selfishness that Jesus came to overthrow. It is the kingdom of selfishness in its full blown 'glory' on a global political and personal scale that is the final challenge to the Kingdom of Jesus ie, The Kingdom of God, that of selflessness ie, the Glory of God revealed as broadcast by the angels in Revelation 14:6-13......as manifest in the reality of Jesus.

......and for those interested here is a PDF of stimulating reading re this.

 

[Trekson]

Daniel 9:27 was fulfilled in its entirety at Calvary and in the events of 70 AD.

Dream on brother, dream on.

 

[Trekson]

But no kingdom emerges out of that 4th kingdom. It is defeated by God, and it's symbolic body is killed, and then given to flame and the other beasts lives are prolonged for a season and a time. No new kingdom comes from the 4th in Daniel's writing.

The kingdom of the ten toes is the same kingdom of the ten horns and the same kingdom as the little horn and the same kingdom the final king of Dan. 11:21 to the end, rules over, which is the same kingdom as Rev. 13, which has absolutely nothing to do w/ the Rome of the past.

 

[Trekson]

That may be your personal testimony. But that is not my testimony or that of the great host of witnesses who are the living, to whom Jesus has come already for thousands of years, nor that of many others also who have come into His presence "today" passing from death to life.

Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.

The physical isn't the same as the spiritual. We are in the spiritual kingdom now, the physical kingdom won't be realized until the millennium.

 

[covenantee]

Dream on brother, dream on.

Messiah the Prince was and is a Doer.

Not a dreamer.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Daniel 9:27 was fulfilled in its entirety at Calvary and in the events of 70 AD.

At that time some Jews and those versed in the Scriptures would be thinking so.

 

[covenantee]

At that time some Jews and those versed in the Scriptures would be thinking so.

The Christians of that time knew so.

Which is why they remembered Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:16; and fled and survived.