Romans 11 and the real Replacement Theology

[covenantee]

There is no teaching in Acts, Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians and Thessalonians about the blood of Jesus being in us. It's all about the spirit. So you can keep saying Jesus said it all day, but he did not. The Epistles teach about the spirit which is our new birth and that ministry started with our new covenant in Acts.

Here's a few verses on our spirit. Notice it does not say ye shall be baptized with the blood. Or that Peter was filled with the blood.

Acts
ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost
ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you
they were all filled with the Holy Ghost
I will pour out in those days of my Spirit
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
Then Peter filled with the Holy Ghost
and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost
full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom
Stephen a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost
the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake
being full of the Holy Ghost
that they might receive the Holy Ghost
they received the Holy Ghost
be filled with the Holy Ghost
comfort of the Holy Ghost
the Spirit said unto him
the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word
the Spirit bade me go with them
the Holy Ghost fell on them
full of the Holy Ghost and of faith
Agabus signified by the Spirit
filled with the Holy Ghost
the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Ghost
giving them the Holy Ghost
Paul was pressed in the spirit
instructed in the way of the Lord and being fervent in the spirit
Have ye received the Holy Ghost
the Holy Ghost came on them
Paul purposed in the spirit
bound in the spirit
who said to Paul through the Spirit
were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake
Stephen calling upon God and saying Lord Jesus receive my spirit
while Paul waited for them at Athens his spirit was stirred in him
was instructed in the way of the Lord and being fervent in the spirit
Romans
serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son
love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost
serve in newness of spirit
in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit
they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit
in the Spirit if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you
the Spirit is life because of righteousness
if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you
shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you
if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God they are the sons of God
ye have received the Spirit of adoption
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children
ourselves also which have the firstfruits of the Spirit
the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities
the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us
he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit
fervent in spirit serving the Lord
1 Corinthians
in demonstration of the Spirit and of power
God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit
the Spirit searcheth all things yea the deep things of God
have received not the spirit of the world but the spirit which is of God
the Spirit of God dwelleth in you
no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed
no man can say that Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost
the manifestation of the Spirit
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit
2 Corinthians
given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts
God who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit
Galatians
Received ye the Spirit
having begun in the Spirit
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit
God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son
For we through the Spirit
Walk in the Spirit
the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh
But if ye be led of the Spirit
But the fruit of the Spirit
If we live in the Spirit let us also walk in the Spirit
Ephesians
sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
have access by one Spirit unto the Father
ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit
it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit
strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man
be renewed in the spirit of your mind
grieve not the holy Spirit of God
the fruit of the Spirit
be filled with the Spirit
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit
Philippians
worship God in the spirit
1 Thessalonians
in power and in the Holy Ghost
God who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit
your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless

To learn more... www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html

What's all this?

We were discussing whether Jesus offered His New Covenant to His disciples in Matthew 26:28.

You claim that He didn't.

Scripture declares that He did.

I believe Scripture.

 

[Timtofly]

Only modernist racist dispensatanism attempts to claim unregenerates

You left out Paul as one of those racist:

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:"

First off, Paul calls you ignorant for your racist analysis of the situation. Then Paul pointed out you are wise in your own conceit, ie your human explanation of DNA.

The blindness of Israel was only in part until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

You say the Gentiles are blinded in part until the fulness of the lost tribes of Israel comes in. Because you are too afraid to point out any differences between who is a Gentile and who is of Israel. If the entire earth means the Gentiles and the lost tribes of Israel are all one big happy family who else is left outside of your universalism?

The lost tribes of Israel are your enemy concerning the Gospel.

"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:"

Who are? The Gentiles or the lost tribes of Israel?

Israel will be saved when Jesus as King turns away the ungodliness from Jacob, the lost tribes of Israel, at the Second Coming. Does that mean they cannot be part of the church as well as Gentiles? Of course not, all humanity can come to the saving knowledge of Jesus, no one is excluded by God, but by their own selfish pride, and evidently foolish doctrines that cause division and enmity. Paul said the Gospel made them enemies. Paul did not say the Gospel means you can be their racist enemy, declaring them a nonexistent ethnicity. Gentiles are not the lost tribes of Jacob. And God is not confused nor interested in your DNA analysis.

The timing is not based on years of human theology and eschatology you call your orthodox view.

Paul gave us the timing in the chapter itself. Israel will be restored, those lost ten tribes, after the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. You have replaced the Second Coming with an ongoing restoration over the last two millennia. Paul states one thing. You state your own thing, based on years of human orthodoxy.

 

[covenantee]

You left out Paul as one of those racist:

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:"

First off, Paul calls you ignorant for your racist analysis of the situation. Then Paul pointed out you are wise in your own conceit, ie your human explanation of DNA.

The blindness of Israel was only in part until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

You say the Gentiles are blinded in part until the fulness of the lost tribes of Israel comes in. Because you are too afraid to point out any differences between who is a Gentile and who is of Israel. If the entire earth means the Gentiles and the lost tribes of Israel are all one big happy family who else is left outside of your universalism?

The lost tribes of Israel are your enemy concerning the Gospel.

"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:"

Who are? The Gentiles or the lost tribes of Israel?

Israel will be saved when Jesus as King turns away the ungodliness from Jacob, the lost tribes of Israel, at the Second Coming. Does that mean they cannot be part of the church as well as Gentiles? Of course not, all humanity can come to the saving knowledge of Jesus, no one is excluded by God, but by their own selfish pride, and evidently foolish doctrines that cause division and enmity. Paul said the Gospel made them enemies. Paul did not say the Gospel means you can be their racist enemy, declaring them a nonexistent ethnicity. Gentiles are not the lost tribes of Jacob. And God is not confused nor interested in your DNA analysis.

The timing is not based on years of human theology and eschatology you call your orthodox view.

Paul gave us the timing in the chapter itself. Israel will be restored, those lost ten tribes, after the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. You have replaced the Second Coming with an ongoing restoration over the last two millennia. Paul states one thing. You state your own thing, based on years of human orthodoxy.

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel", comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't see the word "form" the way you do. You see the word “form” which is the Greek word morphē, referring to Christ’s inner nature as God. This is so strongly asserted that in Philippians 2:6 the NIV has “being in very nature God.” I do not believe that morphē refers to an “inner essential nature" but rather an outer. The scholarly lexicon by Walter Bauer, translated and revised by Arndt and Gingrich, has under morphē, “form, outward appearance, shape.

Jesus walked in the Garden with Adam and had the scars of the Cross. Adam still disobeyed God, that led to those scars. So, no, I don't think you can know what I think until I let you know what I think.

You can argue whether or not Adam knew what those scars meant or even saw them. I don't see the OT Word as the pre-incarnate Jesus. I see the Word as the post Cross Messiah. I see God Himself on the Cross as one Lord. You argue against the trinity, and evidently as one Lord as well.

Jesus on earth at conception, and forever more (eternity), represented 6 aspects, and all being equal. You seem to deny the trinity as seen by church theology, but I see both views wrapped up in one physical body. Jesus was in all aspects 100% human and 100% the Lord.

 

[Timtofly]

What Scripture are you referring to?

Well since you have two totally, at opposing ends of your theology, groups of lost sheep, no wonder you need different passages to define these two groups.

There is only one Israel, and that term was given to Jacob. Now you have two groups of lost sheep that you have named Israel.

 

[Zao is life]

You left out Paul as one of those racist:

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:"

First off, Paul calls you ignorant for your racist analysis of the situation. Then Paul pointed out you are wise in your own conceit, ie your human explanation of DNA.

The blindness of Israel was only in part until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

You say the Gentiles are blinded in part until the fulness of the lost tribes of Israel comes in. Because you are too afraid to point out any differences between who is a Gentile and who is of Israel. If the entire earth means the Gentiles and the lost tribes of Israel are all one big happy family who else is left outside of your universalism?

The lost tribes of Israel are your enemy concerning the Gospel.

"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:"

Who are? The Gentiles or the lost tribes of Israel?

Israel will be saved when Jesus as King turns away the ungodliness from Jacob, the lost tribes of Israel, at the Second Coming. Does that mean they cannot be part of the church as well as Gentiles? Of course not, all humanity can come to the saving knowledge of Jesus, no one is excluded by God, but by their own selfish pride, and evidently foolish doctrines that cause division and enmity. Paul said the Gospel made them enemies. Paul did not say the Gospel means you can be their racist enemy, declaring them a nonexistent ethnicity. Gentiles are not the lost tribes of Jacob. And God is not confused nor interested in your DNA analysis.

The timing is not based on years of human theology and eschatology you call your orthodox view.

Paul gave us the timing in the chapter itself. Israel will be restored, those lost ten tribes, after the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. You have replaced the Second Coming with an ongoing restoration over the last two millennia. Paul states one thing. You state your own thing, based on years of human orthodoxy.

What nonsense. According to you no Jew who was broken off through unbelief can be grafted back in until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

 

[Timtofly]

That thinking of course is wrong, and is actually conceit.


You just don't know what you're saying, because Jesus said He laid down His life for the "sheep". Trying to EXCLUDE believing Gentiles in those "sheep" is against Him and The Word of God. Your idea is an idea that the blind Pharisees would come up with.

John 10:15-16
15 As the Father knoweth Me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
KJV

That "one fold" idea Jesus said is about His Church of both believing Israelite and believing Gentiles together, as one body in Christ, as He is that "one shepherd" there.



Apostle Paul said the following to the Gentile Romans...

Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, 'For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.'
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him That loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV

In none of that Rom.8 Scripture does Paul point to Israel as meaning those "sheep". Instead he is speaking of all... believers on Jesus Christ, Israelite and Gentile alike.

Paul was quoting Isaiah. Who was Isaiah referring to?

You are free to apply and believe Scripture any way you like. Still does not change any facts of Scripture.

I have never claimed a Gentile cannot claim the promises in Christ that Israel can. I am not the one creating two different Israels. I am not even claiming there is an elite group of Israelites out there claiming to represent Israel. Paul in Romans 11 states that Israel will be restored after the fulness of the Gentiles, which is the point of Jesus coming to earth as King.

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob."

 

[Timtofly]

What nonsense. According to you no Jew who was broken off through unbelief can be grafted back in until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Not what I posted, nor can you even prove that is what I implied.

You just changed the subject instead of even addressing my post.

But on that note, all humans can be grafted in, even males and females.

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus walked in the Garden with Adam and had the scars of the Cross. Adam still disobeyed God, that led to those scars. So, no, I don't think you can know what I think until I let you know what I think.

You can argue whether or not Adam knew what those scars meant or even saw them. I don't see the OT Word as the pre-incarnate Jesus. I see the Word as the post Cross Messiah. I see God Himself on the Cross as one Lord. You argue against the trinity, and evidently as one Lord as well.

Jesus on earth at conception, and forever more (eternity), represented 6 aspects, and all being equal. You seem to deny the trinity as seen by church theology, but I see both views wrapped up in one physical body. Jesus was in all aspects 100% human and 100% the Lord.

A couple of things are here...

1.) There is no single verse that says Jesus was both God and man.
2.) Something cannot be 100% of one thing and 100% of something else because that would make it 200%.
3.) The Bible never says anything or even hints that Jesus had two wills in conflict with each other inside him allowing one to be human and the other to be divine.

 

[Peterlag]

What's all this?

We were discussing whether Jesus offered His New Covenant to His disciples in Matthew 26:28.

You claim that He didn't.

Scripture declares that He did.

I believe Scripture.

No you believe he did.

Scripture does not say the new covenant started in Matthew.

And I believe the Scriptures. I just gave you a bunch of verses that talk about the spirit of Christ and that's the new covenant. There are no verses about the blood in us.

 

[covenantee]

No you believe he did.

Scripture does not say the new covenant started in Matthew.

And I believe the Scriptures. I just gave you a bunch of verses that talk about the spirit of Christ and that's the new covenant. There are no verses about the blood in us.

Here's your rendition of Matthew 26:28:

"For this is not My blood of the new covenant, which is not shed for any for the remission of sins."

 

[Freedm]

So another being leaves you when you return to dust because all you are is a physical body of dust? Who is this other being if you cease to exist?

You are soul, body, and spirit. Certainly your soul and spirit does not return to dust?? They were never dust to begin with. God is not made of dust, but Jesus had a dust body, if that is where you think the physical comes from, dust.

What other being? God never said "you are dust plus another being". He said "you are dust". That's it.

You're assuming you have a "spirit" and whatever you think a "soul" is, but that's not what God told us. He said "you are dust".

 

[Peterlag]

Here's your rendition of Matthew 26:28:

"For this is not My blood of the new covenant, which is not shed for any for the remission of sins."

His blood was not available to us until Acts. And when it kicked in it was spirit that the blood made available. And it did not happen in Matthew because nobody had the spirit until Acts.

 

[covenantee]

His blood was not available to us until Acts. And when it kicked in it was spirit that the blood made available. And it did not happen in Matthew because nobody had the spirit until Acts.

So you agree with your rendition of Matthew 26:28.

Have you contacted any translator to agitate for your rendition?

 

[Peterlag]

So you agree with your rendition of Matthew 26:28.

Have you contacted any translator to agitate for your rendition?

You're not the only one confused. There's a whole bunch of people that think God is bringing the Jews back to their land now. Those statements made by God will not happen until Christ comes back. Same with you and this Matthew. All because we have so many people that cannot understand to whom it is addressed.

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus made a very plain and simple statement in Matthew 5:5: “The meek will inherit the earth.” Jesus did not invent that statement; he quoted Psalm 37:11. Many of the Jews of Jesus’ time had lost sight of the hope that Israel would be restored on earth, and the situation is the same today. The simple meaning of Matthew 5:5 has been lost due to the traditional teaching that saved people live in heaven forever after they die. Actually, what the Bible teaches is that Jesus Christ will come down from heaven to the earth, fight and win the Battle of Armageddon, and set up his kingdom on earth, which will fill the whole earth (Ps. 2:8; 72:8-11; Dan. 2:35; 7:14; Mic. 5:4; Zech. 9:10; Rev. 2:8; 19:11-21). He will set up his palace in the newly rebuilt Jerusalem, and for 1,000 years reign over all the earth. All the people who have been saved will be there because they will have been raised from the dead. Many scholars refer to this 1,000-year kingdom as the “Millennial Kingdom.” It is the first 1,000 years of the “Kingdom” that Jesus spoke about so often when he taught about “the Kingdom of God.” After the 1,000 years are over there will be a great war (Rev. 20:7-10). Then there will be the second resurrection, and after that the Everlasting City will come down from heaven to earth, and all the saved people of all time will live in it forever (Rev. 21:1-4). Thus, the future reign of Christ on earth is divided into two parts, the Millennial Kingdom, which will last 1,000 years (Rev. 20:1-7), and the Everlasting Kingdom, which will last forever (Rev. 21-22).

 

[covenantee]

You're not the only one confused. There's a whole bunch of people that think God is bringing the Jews back to their land now. Those statements made by God will not happen until Christ comes back. Same with you and this Matthew. All because we have so many people that cannot understand to whom it is addressed.

You're the only source of truth in the whole wide world, right?

Here's Matthew 26:28 from your Bullinger Companion Bible:

28 For this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Even he doesn't agree with you.

 

[Peterlag]

You're the only source of truth in the whole wide world, right?

Here's Matthew 26:28 from your Bullinger Companion Bible:

28 For this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Even he doesn't agree with you.

Time is your only problem here. You have (it seems) never been taught to watch your time. The time that Jesus made that statement is not the same time that anyone received the spirit because Christianity was not yet born. If we believe what God said in one administration and carry it into another administration that was on a different principle, we will be taking what is true for one time, and using it to contradict what is also true for another time. When we mix them all together, by jumbling the whole Bible together: Law, Gospel, Grace, Judgment, Glory, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, we will be very confused in our understanding of the truth of God’s Word.

 

[Timtofly]

A couple of things are here...

1.) There is no single verse that says Jesus was both God and man.
2.) Something cannot be 100% of one thing and 100% of something else because that would make it 200%.
3.) The Bible never says anything or even hints that Jesus had two wills in conflict with each other inside him allowing one to be human and the other to be divine.

No one mentioned two wills except you as an excuse why it was impossible for God to carry out His plan and will. Only one will and 6 aspects centered on the will of God.

You claim Jesus is a seperate creation. No, Jesus is God as the firstborn human. Not the first created human seperate from God.

John 1 points out Jesus was both God and human.

I think 1 times 1 is still 1. You are still adding 1 plus something different as another 1 to get 2. God was multiplied in human flesh, not added to human flesh.

 

[Timtofly]

What other being? God never said "you are dust plus another being". He said "you are dust". That's it.

You're assuming you have a "spirit" and whatever you think a "soul" is, but that's not what God told us. He said "you are dust".

No, you said humans are only dust. Paul said: 1 Thessalonians 5:23

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

You are going by what God told Adam after physically dying and living in the corruption of dead flesh. It is dead flesh that:

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

You are fixated on Adam's dead corruptible flesh that cannot even enter heaven. You claim all you are is dead corruptible dust. You should accept that you are more than Adam's disobedience. If you remain in Adam's dead state, you will only stand as the dead and be cast into the LOF per Revelation 20:12-15.

This is the difference between a body of dust, and God's permanent incorruptible physical body: 2 Corinthians 5:1

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (dust) were dissolved (returned to dust), we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Adam's dead flesh is temporary like a tent. God's physical body that Adam had before he disobeyed God, is that building, permanent from God. Dust just refers to the basic atoms of creation. God can sustain His creation as permanent or as in a state of death and decay.