Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

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St. SteVen

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Dunno....I haven't run into a church based heavily upon Phillip....
Seems that he was more of an evangelist than a church-planting apostle.

It's an interesting study to follow Phillip's route in Acts chapter eight.
Make note of the cities he visited and the mileage he ran. Amazing.

Acts 8:26, 38-40 NIV
Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip,
“Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” ...
38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot.
Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away,
and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about,
preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

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Augustin56

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Where is this "entirety of Divine Revelation" that was NOT recorded in the New Testament to be found?

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Excellent question. It is in a combination of Oral Tradition (aka, Holy Tradition) and Written Tradition (Scriptures) as St. Paul referred to in 2 Thes 2:15. "Tradition" in this sense is not what we normally think of as tradition, i.e., common practices. Tradition in this sense means "teaching." The New Testament was taken from the Oral Tradition. SOME of what was taught orally was written down, but not all. (See John 21:25) Yet, Jesus commanded that all be taught. (Matt. 28:20)
 
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St. SteVen

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Excellent question. It is in a combination of Oral Tradition (aka, Holy Tradition) and Written Tradition (Scriptures) as St. Paul referred to in 2 Thes 2:15. "Tradition" in this sense is not what we normally think of as tradition, i.e., common practices. Tradition in this sense means "teaching." The New Testament was taken from the Oral Tradition. SOME of what was taught orally was written down, but not all. (See John 21:25) Yet, Jesus commanded that all be taught. (Matt. 28:20)
Thank you, excellent response.
What could a Protestant, that wishes to remain Protestant, do to inform and align themselves with the WHOLE that you refer to? (1 Corinthians 7:20)

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Augustin56

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Thank you, excellent response.
What could a Protestant, that wishes to remain Protestant, do to inform and align themselves with the WHOLE that you refer to? (1 Corinthians 7:20)

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Well, I would separate the two issues: Wanting to remain Protestant and aligning themselves with the whole truth of Christ. One can, indeed, find out the whole truth of Christ and not become Catholic. It's a choice. Many have done that, including some well-known personalities. Some have found the whole truth and remained Protesant for a while, later converting. Dr. Scott Hahn comes to mind. He was a Presbyterian theologian who was studying the Catholic faith to refute it, because he was so anti-Catholic. He kept running into doctrines and Scriptures he had never encountered before and couldn't explain except from a Catholic viewpoint. He enlisted the aid of other theologians and some of his previous teachers to help refute them, all to no avail. He kept fighting it, but eventually ended up becoming Catholic, along with his wife. He now teaches theology at Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH.

We are all in a state of process. Everyone has their own backstory that got them to where they currently are in their lives and the status of their soul. God can do more in one minute than any of us can do in 100 years. For example, the actor, John Wayne, had a deathbed conversion. The interplay between our will and God's grace is where the rubber meets the road. And we cannot judge the culpability of anyone's soul. We aren't capable. Only God is. And He doesn't wait and watch to see what we do so He can decide how to react. He sees our entire lives, from conception to death in one glance, and has been able to do so for all eternity. He chose us to live in this place and time. He knows it all.

But He wants us to know all the truth He gave us, and to experience all the gifts He left us. All out of love, not force. True faith is never imposed...it is proposed.
 
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Lambano

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When an individual joins a group, what are his obligations to the group?

What are the group's obligations to the individual?
 
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St. SteVen

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When an individual joins a group, what are his obligations to the group?

What is the group's obligations to the individual?
This is something I obviously struggle against.
Previous member O'Darby used to push me to either get in, or get out. - LOL

I like the benefits of the group. But I also like my autonomy.

Can a person be a Christ-follower without falling in lock-step with the institutional church?
1733497368271.jpeg
 
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Lambano

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Previous member O'Darby used to push me to either get in, or get out. - LOL

9781338641394.jpg
 

St. SteVen

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This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below.

Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity is
holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs.

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal unity?

Unity of the faith - at what cost?

Just to be clear, I do not seek Christian doctrinal unity.
Defined as EVERYONE surrendering to a predetermined set of beliefs.
I believe that unity comes when we accept each other no matter our differences.
That we seek to understand each other instead of rejecting those whose Christian doctrine may differ.
Which presents its own set of challenges, of course. But that's another topic. (I hope)

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Behold

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Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal unity?

Your "belief" is a Theology, a false Gospel, that sends people to hell.
Your "own belief" is that everyone is Saved.......now or later... and there is no Hell, and everyone goes to Heaven.
So, that is a Cross Rejecting lie, and now you want to "not surrender" that False Belief, that demonic Gospel, because you want to have it your way, Mr Pride filled.
So, go ahead, as God respects your free will, now and AFTER you DIE., and you've chosen a false theology, that does not believe that you have to be born again, on this earth, before you die, and you'll find out how wrong that was the hard way, if you die believeing that... @St. SteVen
 

St. SteVen

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This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below.

Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity
is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs.

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal unity?


Unity of the faith - at what cost?

Just to be clear, I do not seek Christian doctrinal unity.
Defined as EVERYONE surrendering to a predetermined set of beliefs.


I believe that unity comes when we accept each other no matter our differences.
That we seek to understand each other instead of rejecting those whose Christian doctrine may differ.
Which presents its own set of challenges, of course. But that's another topic. (I hope) - LOL

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quietthinker

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Just to be clear, I do not seek Christian doctrinal unity.
Defined as EVERYONE surrendering to a predetermined set of beliefs.


I believe that unity comes when we accept each other no matter our differences.
That we seek to understand each other instead of rejecting those whose Christian doctrine may differ.
Which presents its own set of challenges, of course. But that's another topic. (I hope) - LOL

[
I go along with this. The desire for truth has its own distilling process which grows into the unity Jesus prayed for.
 
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amigo de christo

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This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below.

Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity
is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs.

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal unity?


Unity of the faith - at what cost?

Just to be clear, I do not seek Christian doctrinal unity.
Defined as EVERYONE surrendering to a predetermined set of beliefs.


I believe that unity comes when we accept each other no matter our differences.
That we seek to understand each other instead of rejecting those whose Christian doctrine may differ.
Which presents its own set of challenges, of course. But that's another topic. (I hope) - LOL

[
And your unity is of the world . NOT GOD , NOT CHRIST .
JESUS never went around trying to find common ground and unity
NOR did the apostels . THEY PREACHED JESUS . THIS DID cause divsions , this did cause
seperation , NOT UNITY WITH THE WORLD . as it darn sure appears you are all about .
You do realize there is the PEACE OF GOD , but also the peace of anti christ and of the world .
THE PEACE OF GOD focuses ON PREACHING JESUS and all HE did teach and later the apostles did
and the sheep WILL UNIFY UNDER THIS
but alas many preach the wrong peace . many preach this peace
AND BY PEACE SHALL HE DESTROY MANY . anti christ peace . HE is the one who cometh TO UNFIY THE WORLD
to make all religoins and all tribes as one people . You need to flee this and fast .
 
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Behold

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Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity
is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs.

Yes, its a fact that when you esteem your theological and religious opinions above the NT Truths as provided by Paul, you are going to block yourself from any spiritual or literal unity that God offers.

God will never play 2nd fiddle to anyone's opinions.
So that puts you in a hard situation, which you will continue to discover. @St. SteVen


Just to be clear, I do not seek Christian doctrinal unity.


That's obvious.

Defined as EVERYONE surrendering to a predetermined set of beliefs.

Well,..... God has His perspective and the NT reveals it, and that is not for you, as you keep defining yourself, as a 'non-unity" operative.

So.....Have you ever heard of the Devil's Tattoo?
He puts it in the minds of His own.

Its this....."noone is going to tell me what to do, including that stupid bible".... "my opinion rules".

And what is that exactly?
That is the "whole of the law" as defined by the Satanic bible.......which is, "do always exactly what you want, shall be the whole of the Law".

I believe that unity comes when we accept each other no matter our differences.

The NT offers rules for acceptance regarding the body of Christ.
And they are not what you will accept.
 
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lforrest

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I'm not interested in false unity. That is unity through any cause, belief, or spirit that is not of God. And I am one who believes that there is a spirit behind every cause and belief. Be that spirit from demons and thus evil, or from God and Good.

So what we need is unity with the Spirit of God. How do we do this? You are a servant to the one you obey. And if you love Jesus you will follow his commandments. There is much depth to his commandments. Do you see self-sacrificial love that is in the first commandment? Cloquially known as a living sacrifice. This is a form of worship. We are to worship the Lord our God in Spirit and in Truth. And so also the first commandment is shown to require being truthful. There can be no unity between light and darkness.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 

St. SteVen

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I'm not interested in false unity. That is unity through any cause, belief, or spirit that is not of God. And I am one who believes that there is a spirit behind every cause and belief. Be that spirit from demons and thus evil, or from God and Good.

So what we need is unity with the Spirit of God. How do we do this? You are a servant to the one you obey. And if you love Jesus you will follow his commandments. There is much depth to his commandments. Do you see self-sacrificial love that is in the first commandment? Cloquially known as a living sacrifice. This is a form of worship. We are to worship the Lord our God in Spirit and in Truth. And so also the first commandment is shown to require being truthful. There can be no unity between light and darkness.
Good post.
That's a fine opinion, but for unity you need universal buy-in.
Ask ten more believers and get ten more opinions, but no unity.

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St. SteVen

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... what we need is unity with the Spirit of God.
Who determines what that means? (if doctrinal unity is the goal) ???
For unity, the church members need to fall in line under the authority of one set of doctrines.

I have no interest in doing that; I'm guessing you don't either.
Again, who determines what doctrinal unity means?

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?​


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Aunty Jane

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This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below.

Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity
is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs.
It’s not a roadblock, but more a line of demarcation......the line between a “sheep and a goat”....between the “wheat and the weeds”.
Jesus said he came to cause “division”, but not among his own disciples. (Matt 10:34-39)
That division was to be seen between those who chose to obey Jesus’ commands....and those who chose disobey by abusing that freedom.

Why did God give us that freedom?
It is not a freedom to believe whatever appeals to you....just as the Jews had their Scripture to guide them under the old covenant, didn’t mean that when they misinterpreted that Scripture to serve their own purpose, that it was OK with God to do that. He actually stopped sending his prophets to them some 300 years before Christ came to them.....which shows how incorrigible they really were, and how much time they had to become what Jesus confronted. (Matt 23:33)

Understanding what the situation was like at the time Jesus uttered those words about “division” is important for us, because it was a division between those who purportedly worshipped the same God. What was the basis for that division?

Acceptance of Jesus’ teachings over those of the establishment, which were corrupted over those hundreds of years. Judaism became divided by sectarianism, which is exactly what we see today....only in greater magnitude. History is repeating. The majority stick with the ‘establishment’, whilst the minority draw away from it.
Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal unity?

Unity of the faith - at what cost?

Just to be clear, I do not seek Christian doctrinal unity.
Defined as EVERYONE surrendering to a predetermined set of beliefs.
The natural question from that statement is....what are the predetermined beliefs that Jesus taught?
Was there division among the first Christians?.....and if so, what was done about it? Was it allowed to cause the kind of division we see in first century Judaism and in modern day Christendom?
The answer is NO! (Gal 1:8-9)
I believe that unity comes when we accept each other no matter our differences.
Which is nothing like what Jesus taught. He laid down the beliefs that all of his disciples had to embrace....no one was free to believe something different or to say “I think” about any of it. It was simple obedience to ALL that he taught....no if’s or buts...like it or not. No one chafed over any of it. It was accepted without question.
That we seek to understand each other instead of rejecting those whose Christian doctrine may differ.
Which presents its own set of challenges, of course. But that's another topic. (I hope) - LOL
Indeed a whole other topic....but this one is easy to answer when we see the big picture.

Who or what was the corrupting influence in both apostate Judaism and modern day Christendom?
Jesus told the Pharisees that they were “from their father the devil”....and he also indicated by his parable of “the wheat and the weeds” that satan was again going to corrupt Christianity.....how? By planting a counterfeit in the world....slowly introducing doctrines that were not from Christ or his apostles...and gradually poisoning the whole basis of the Christian faith. Christendom is built on those false doctrines, accepted so long ago that no one questions them.

If we cannot identify the counterfeits by their actions and acceptance of false doctrine, then the devil has us right where he wants us. There is one truth and only the “wheat” are teaching it and practicing the true faith. They all accept what Jesus taught without division, because they have hearts that are attracted to it, they don’t need to modify that truth to suit themselves. It is something accepted willingly.

Jesus said that in this time of the end, (when he would return) that he would appoint a “faithful and wise servant” to feed his household their “food at the proper time”. (Matt 24:45) All are fed the same spiritual food, and nothing is rejected or wasted.....their plates are clean because they all enjoy the same ‘meals’.

Jesus’ true disciples in these ‘last days’, are just the same as they were in the first century....they are a hated and persecuted minority, (John 15:18-21) separated from the mainstream ‘establishment’......united in a disunited world, separated for the task that Jesus assigned to all of his disciples. (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14) Christendom is MIA in this all important work, justifying their disobedience to Christ’s command. (Matt 10:11-14; Acts 20:20)

They are celebrating adopted pagan festivals under the thin veneer of a “Christian” label, (2 Cor 6:14-18) and making a mockery of marriage by divorcing on unscriptural grounds. (Matt 19:9)

The search and rescue mission of his disciples is that of a shepherd searching for lost lambs. It is the “lost” who accept his truth because the majority do not see themselves as “lost” in a disunited mess.
They want to find acceptance for rejecting Jesus teachings because a comfortable lie is easier to live with than an uncomfortable truth.

Jesus asked his disciples to step outside their comfort zone and do what what he did, spreading a message of hope among the hopeless. They won’t be arguing politics or taking up weapons to kill their fellow man, who may well be their “brother in the faith” of another nation. (1 John 4: 20-21) They will live moral lives among the immoral and take their marriage vows seriously.
They will work to make a living, not to furnish a lavish lifestyle or emulating worldly celebrities in their speech or dress. (1 John 2:15-17; John 15:19)

The “wheat” stand apart from the “weeds” and it’s obvious that they are different. Viva la difference.
No one can come to the son without an invitation from his Father. (John 6:65) It is God who draws people to his truth. (John 6:44) They accept it and live by it.
 

LoveYeshua

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Never! That's why I have been away from the church body, I hit a roadblock at most all the churches by me. Either, uber liberal, Calvinist and a Catholic church on every corner. I no longer sense that God is directing me to even search for one. For now, even though just an online site, this IS my family...warts and all...NOT that I would agree with anything I thought was a bit off biblically.
Feel the same way, this forum is my church but still looking... not found a proper church yet. Prayed to find one but nothing so far.
 
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St. SteVen

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Which is nothing like what Jesus taught. He laid down the beliefs that all of his disciples had to embrace....no one was free to believe something different or to say “I think” about any of it. It was simple obedience to ALL that he taught....no if’s or buts...like it or not. No one chafed over any of it. It was accepted without question.
But now we have a church to contend with.

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