WHAT ALMOST ALL PREMILLENNIALISTS DO NOT NOTICE OR REFUSE TO SEE

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CadyandZoe

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Only one part of the Premillennial view: That the NHNE commences after the thousand years.

Amillennialists and Premillennialists are on the same page when they all say that the NHNE follows the millennium.

Too many statements in the Bible that negate the idea. The only possibility is that the NHNE and the millennium commence together after the return of Christ. There is the Garden of Eden all over again. One last time the sabbath closes with Satan being permitted to deceive mankind.

Take it or leave it. Most leave it. Only one other person I've seen in these forums believes the same way, so you can't be blamed if you also reject it.
I need to find where the scriptures you presented show how the NHNE is related to the Millennial Period. The Millennium is mentioned in Revelation chapter 20, whereas the NHNE is mentioned in Revelation chapter 21. Isn't that our first clue that the NHNE comes after the thousand years?
 

Zao is life

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I need to find where the scriptures you presented show how the NHNE is related to the Millennial Period. The Millennium is mentioned in Revelation chapter 20, whereas the NHNE is mentioned in Revelation chapter 21. Isn't that our first clue that the NHNE comes after the thousand years?
No. Those chapter divisions were only inserted in 1227 A.D. Take out the chapter divisions and read from Revelation 19:11 through to Revelation 22:9, and also compare Revelation 7:13-17 with Revelation 21:3-4.

Also take note of the words "and I saw" (or "then I saw" in some Bibles) which begin in Revelation 19:11 and are used repeatedly and include Revelation 21:1.
 

David in NJ

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The garden has no relation to this subject.





It was not fine at all. It contained access to a forbidden fruit, and satan also had access to it and to those who lived there.
The Garden absolutely is related to the 1,000 Years Literal Reign of Christ.

It is the Final Evidentiary Reality of Christ's Authority to the angels and all of Creation.

Genesis is the Foundation for all Prophecy pertaining to Christ, Salvation/Gospel, Resurrection, Judgment, Satan, fallen angels and God's Claim on all of Creation.

Peace my Brother
 
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Davidpt

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I need to find where the scriptures you presented show how the NHNE is related to the Millennial Period. The Millennium is mentioned in Revelation chapter 20, whereas the NHNE is mentioned in Revelation chapter 21. Isn't that our first clue that the NHNE comes after the thousand years?

Have you looked at Isaiah 60, for example, and then compared some of that with Revelation 21 and 22? The point being, in that same context it then says the following.

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.



How can this threat possibly be meaning after the time of the great white throne judgment rather than prior to it?

Isaiah 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.


How can verse 12 not be involving the time period meant in verse 11?

Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.


How can verse 11 possibly not be involving the time period pertaining to verses 24-26 here?

What then does this all add up to once we connect the dots? Of course though, some simply aren't very good at connecting dots, which may or may not include you---I simply don't know one way or the other at this point until I see what you do with this first.

This is what it adds up to after we connect the dots.

If Isaiah 60:12 is meaning during Isaiah 60:11, and that Isaiah 60:11 is meaning during Revelation 21:24-26, Isaiah 60:12 then shows that the beginning of the NHNE can't be post the time of the great white throne judgment, but has to be prior to it since it is not reasonable to apply Isaiah 60:12 to a time period post that of the great white throne judgment. As if anyone still has that to worry about after the time of the great white throne judgment, what is recorded in Isaiah 60:12.

If this can be debunked, one first has to prove that Isaiah 60:12 is not involving the time period Isaiah 60:11 is involving, and that Isaiah 60:11 is not involving the same time period Revelation 21:24-26 is involving. Or that what is recorded in Isaiah 60:12, that this is something that can still happen to someone post the time of the great white throne judgment. For example. 10 billion years after the time of the great white throne judgment, what is recorded in Isaiah 60:12 can still happen to someone. Totally preposterous, of course.
 
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Davidpt

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Which is absolutely unbiblical! Nowhere can it be shown that there will be one thousand literal years of peace on the NHNE before evil, corruption and death once again come into the NHNE. Why make all things new if all things shall once again be as things in this earth now are?

Unless one believes in an unbiblical gap in Genesis 1, everything God created in the beginning was new, and even so, it didn't stop satan from doing what he did at the time. Except the 2nd time around he will not be able to accomplish what he did the first time around. What then is the issue? It's not like after the thousand years satan manages to make man fall for another 6000 years, thus more of the same. Except it is not more of the same unless he succeeds first. Revelation 20 records that he doesn't succeed.
 

David in NJ

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Have you looked at Isaiah 60, for example, and then compared some of that with Revelation 21 and 22? The point being, in that same context it then says the following.

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.



How can this threat possibly be meaning after the time of the great white throne judgment rather than prior to it?

Isaiah 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.


How can verse 12 not be involving the time period meant in verse 11?

Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.


How can verse 11 possibly not be involving the time period pertaining to verses 24-26 here?

What then does this all add up to once we connect the dots? Of course though, some simply aren't very good at connecting dots, which may or may not include you---I simply don't know one way or the other at this point until I see what you do with this first.
Maybe this is the KEY from Rev ch21

"And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light,"
 
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Timtofly

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Take it or leave it. Most leave it. Only one other person I've seen in these forums believes the same way, so you can't be blamed if you also reject it.
You cannot have both though. Either the Day of the Lord is the last millennium of current creation or it is the first of an entirely different creation. But explain how a Day of the Lord set aside as a Sabbath day of rest is the start of a week or creation?

Do you think we all go back to work or sin or something after the Day of the Lord?

The first Sabbath was not the 7th day just to be the last day of a cycle. The first Sabbath was a day of rest, but more than that a Day of the Lord after 6 24 hour periods.

People seem to want sin to be in the first millennium of current creation for some strange reason. Now some want Satan let loose after a thousand years in the next creation. It does not add up. Satan is not even allowed in the next creation because he is in the LOF prior to the start of the next creation. No verse proves Satan is released from the LOF a thousand years into the NHNE. It would be strange to see some poster even start posting that Satan is set free from the LOF. Yet that is the implication of being placed into the LOF just verses prior to the NHNE appearing out of nowhere, and then saying Satan was not placed into the LOF. Satan was placed into the LOF before current creation no longer existed. The last part of Revelation 20 only has the GWT, sheol, and death left over from the old creation, to be tossed into the LOF. Now the LOF started at the Second Coming. It will be around for the last millennium. But the NHNE do not exist at the same time as the OHOE. The LOF will exist as separate relating to both.

Take it or leave it. There is no verse to back up your point.

Many think that Daniel 9:24 was totally fulfilled in the first century, even those who think it all ended by 70AD.

Some only see it spiritually in motion.

But the Day of the Lord applies Daniel 9:24 to this creation. Honestly how can we even relate to the NHNE, other than compromising what we know, and just think it is the same as this creation?
 

Zao is life

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You cannot have both though. Either the Day of the Lord is the last millennium of current creation or it is the first of an entirely different creation. But explain how a Day of the Lord set aside as a Sabbath day of rest is the start of a week or creation?

Do you think we all go back to work or sin or something after the Day of the Lord?

The first Sabbath was not the 7th day just to be the last day of a cycle. The first Sabbath was a day of rest, but more than that a Day of the Lord after 6 24 hour periods.

People seem to want sin to be in the first millennium of current creation for some strange reason. Now some want Satan let loose after a thousand years in the next creation. It does not add up. Satan is not even allowed in the next creation because he is in the LOF prior to the start of the next creation. No verse proves Satan is released from the LOF a thousand years into the NHNE. It would be strange to see some poster even start posting that Satan is set free from the LOF. Yet that is the implication of being placed into the LOF just verses prior to the NHNE appearing out of nowhere, and then saying Satan was not placed into the LOF. Satan was placed into the LOF before current creation no longer existed. The last part of Revelation 20 only has the GWT, sheol, and death left over from the old creation, to be tossed into the LOF. Now the LOF started at the Second Coming. It will be around for the last millennium. But the NHNE do not exist at the same time as the OHOE. The LOF will exist as separate relating to both.

Take it or leave it. There is no verse to back up your point.

Many think that Daniel 9:24 was totally fulfilled in the first century, even those who think it all ended by 70AD.

Some only see it spiritually in motion.

But the Day of the Lord applies Daniel 9:24 to this creation. Honestly how can we even relate to the NHNE, other than compromising what we know, and just think it is the same as this creation?
Your talk of "old creation" and "new creation" betrays the fact that you do not understand what "I make all things new" means. The same creation, made new again. Jesus did not say, "Behold, I create all things new".

There is nothing in the Revelation of the new heavens and new earth that suggests that either the abyss or the lake of fire will have ceased to exist. In fact, the description of the new heavens and new earth repeatedly mentions the lake of fire, comparing New Jerusalem with the lake of fire. Where did Satan exist in the Garden of Eden?

Your talk of the Day of the LORD as though it's a thousand-year long sabbath betrays the fact that you conflate the Day of judgment when Christ returns, a.k.a the Day of Christ, with the entire millennium. The beast and false prophet are not going to slowly descend into the lake of fire over a period of a thousand years.​
 

CadyandZoe

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No. Those chapter divisions were only inserted in 1227 A.D. Take out the chapter divisions and read from Revelation 19:11 through to Revelation 22:9, and also compare Revelation 7:13-17 with Revelation 21:3-4.

Also take note of the words "and I saw" (or "then I saw" in some Bibles) which begin in Revelation 19:11 and are used repeatedly and include Revelation 21:1.
I don't follow you. Even if we remove the chapter divisions, according to the book of Revelation, the NHNE takes place after the millennium, which takes place after the Lord's return.
 

CadyandZoe

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Have you looked at Isaiah 60, for example, and then compared some of that with Revelation 21 and 22? The point being, in that same context it then says the following.

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
Sounds like the hegemony of Israel and Jesus as predicted elsewhere in the prophets, which according to the book of Revelation lasts for a thousand years.
How can this threat possibly be meaning after the time of the great white throne judgment rather than prior to it?
Agreeed
Isaiah 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.


How can verse 12 not be involving the time period meant in verse 11?
Agreed. The idea of "open" gates indicates a lack of threat from outside the gates. If Israel had enemies at that time, her gates would remain closed, but since she no longer has enemies, her gates remain open.
Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.


How can verse 11 possibly not be involving the time period pertaining to verses 24-26 here?
The passage in Revelation is a different set of circumstances than Isaiah 60, in this. Isaiah 60 locates the gentiles outside the gate; Revelation 21 locates the nations inside the gate.
 

Zao is life

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I don't follow you. Even if we remove the chapter divisions, according to the book of Revelation, the NHNE takes place after the millennium, which takes place after the Lord's return.
Not according to the book of Revelation. There are a number of statements made in the Revelation which prove your above statement to be inaccurate. Here's one example:

Revelation 2:7:
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give him to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.".

THE PROMISES TO THOSE WHO OVERCOME:-

(1) They will eat of the Tree of Life (Revelation 2:7)
(2) They will not be hurt by the Second Death (Revelation 2:11)
(3) They will eat Hidden Manna and receive a New Name (Revelation 2:17)
(4) They will be given power over the nations (Revelation 2:26)
(5) Their names will not be blotted out of the Book of Life (Revelation 3:5)
(6) They will be made a Pillar in the Temple of God (Revelation 3:12)
(7) They will have written on them the name of God, Christ's new name, and the name of the city of God (Revelation 3:12)
(8) They will sit with Christ in His Throne (Revelation 3:21)
(9) They will reign on the earth (Revelation 5:10)
(10) They will inherit All Things (Revelation 21:7)
(11) They will reign with Christ a thousand years (Revelation 20:6)
(12) They will reign forever and ever (Revelation 22:5)

βασιλεύσει (He will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 11:15 (Christ).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) on the earth: Revelation 5:10 (those who overcome).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) with Christ a thousand years: Revelation 20:6 (those who overcame).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 22:5:

“And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God gives them light: and they will reign (βασιλεύσουσιν) for ever and ever.”

These are the ones who came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are:-

*1 before the throne of God, and
*2 they serve Him day and night in His temple.
*3 And He sitting on the throne will dwell among them.
*4 They will not hunger any more, nor thirst any more, nor will the sun light on them, nor any heat. For
*4 the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them and will lead them to the fountains of living waters. And
*5 God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.

And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold,

*1 the tabernacle of God is with men, and
*3 He will dwell with them, and
*2 they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.
*5 And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.
*4 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 ¶ And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
(Revelation 7:1-17 & 21:3-4, 23 & Revelation 22:1-4).

Question for you: How long after the return of Christ will those who are made the above promises begin to inherit those promises? Only after a thousand years?​
 
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CadyandZoe

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Not according to the book of Revelation. There are a number of statements made in the Revelation which prove your above statement to be inaccurate. Here's one example:

Revelation 2:7:
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give him to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.".

THE PROMISES TO THOSE WHO OVERCOME:-

(1) They will eat of the Tree of Life (Revelation 2:7)
(2) They will not be hurt by the Second Death (Revelation 2:11)
(3) They will eat Hidden Manna and receive a New Name (Revelation 2:17)
(4) They will be given power over the nations (Revelation 2:26)
(5) Their names will not be blotted out of the Book of Life (Revelation 3:5)
(6) They will be made a Pillar in the Temple of God (Revelation 3:12)
(7) They will have written on them the name of God, Christ's new name, and the name of the city of God (Revelation 3:12)
(8) They will sit with Christ in His Throne (Revelation 3:21)
(9) They will reign on the earth (Revelation 5:10)
(10) They will inherit All Things (Revelation 21:7)
(11) They will reign with Christ a thousand years (Revelation 20:6)
(12) They will reign forever and ever (Revelation 22:5)

βασιλεύσει (He will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 11:15 (Christ).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) on the earth: Revelation 5:10 (those who overcome).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) with Christ a thousand years: Revelation 20:6 (those who overcame).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 22:5:

“And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God gives them light: and they will reign (βασιλεύσουσιν) for ever and ever.”

These are the ones who came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are:-

*1 before the throne of God, and
*2 they serve Him day and night in His temple.
*3 And He sitting on the throne will dwell among them.
*4 They will not hunger any more, nor thirst any more, nor will the sun light on them, nor any heat. For
*4 the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them and will lead them to the fountains of living waters. And
*5 God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.

And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold,

*1 the tabernacle of God is with men, and
*3 He will dwell with them, and
*2 they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.
*5 And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.
*4 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 ¶ And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
(Revelation 7:1-17 & 21:3-4, 23 & Revelation 22:1-4).

Question for you: How long after the return of Christ will those who are made the above promises begin to inherit those promises? Only after a thousand years?​
I don't see how any of that disproves what I said.

I need help understanding your question. How is it relevant to the NHNE?

Everything you quoted is compatible with Premillennialism.
 

CadyandZoe

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Only one part of the Premillennial view: That the NHNE commences after the thousand years.

Amillennialists and Premillennialists are on the same page when they all say that the NHNE follows the millennium.

Too many statements in the Bible that negate the idea. The only possibility is that the NHNE and the millennium commence together after the return of Christ. There is the Garden of Eden all over again. One last time the sabbath closes with Satan being permitted to deceive mankind.

Take it or leave it. Most leave it. Only one other person I've seen in these forums believes the same way, so you can't be blamed if you also reject it.
I am still trying to understand what you are claiming.
 

Zao is life

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The passage in Revelation is a different set of circumstances than Isaiah 60, in this. Isaiah 60 locates the gentiles outside the gate; Revelation 21 locates the nations inside the gate.
Not true. Revelation 21 locates the Gentiles outside the gate. It calls them

"the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars" who "shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." saying,

"And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.", and saying

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

It's talking about the New Jerusalem and it's not only talking about those who are allowed through its gates. It's also talking about those who will perish in the lake of fire at the close of the thousand years. It's also talking about what @Davidpt mentioned that Isaiah 60 is speaking about.
 
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Davidpt

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Question for you: How long after the return of Christ will those who are made the above promises begin to inherit those promises? Only after a thousand years?​

Speaking of inheriting something.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


Don't most Premils already agree that this is something that takes place when Christ intially returns, this sheep and goats judgment? One is then to believe that they inherit the kingdom at the time but have to wait another thousand years before they are allowed access to the tree of life? How can there be this kingdom once Christ returns but that it is not the same kingdom recorded in Revelation 20-22, though? Do the sheep inherit 2 kingdoms? A temporary one then a permanant one? I would like to see someone prove that with Scripture that the kingdom they inherit per the sheep and goats judgment, that it is not meaning the one and only everlasting kingdom, that only Revelation 21-22 is involving the one and only everlasting kingdom, Matthew 25 isn't, nor is Revelation 20.

As to right to the tree of life. Revelation 22 makes it crystal clear that it will be in the NJ in the NHNE, thus the NJ is the kingdom they inherit per the sheep and goats judgment since what they inherit has to be everlasting in order to agree with what Matthew 25 records per the following pertaining to the sheep---but the righteous into life eternal(Matthew 25:46). Which then means the following is everlasting as well---inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world(Matthew 25:34)

So the sheep are going to inherit the everlasting kingdom when Christ initially returns except the tree of life won't be in it yet, they have to wait another thousand years for that. Yea, right. That makes good sense---not.
 
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Timtofly

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Your talk of "old creation" and "new creation" betrays the fact that you do not understand what "I make all things new" means. The same creation, made new again. Jesus did not say, "Behold, I create all things new".

There is nothing in the Revelation of the new heavens and new earth that suggests that either the abyss or the lake of fire will have ceased to exist. In fact, the description of the new heavens and new earth repeatedly mentions the lake of fire, comparing New Jerusalem with the lake of fire. Where did Satan exist in the Garden of Eden?

Your talk of the Day of the LORD as though it's a thousand-year long sabbath betrays the fact that you conflate the Day of judgment when Christ returns, a.k.a the Day of Christ, with the entire millennium. The beast and false prophet are not going to slowly descend into the lake of fire over a period of a thousand years.​
Actually John did say that the old would flee away. Jesus said heaven and earth would pass away. Paul said all would be made subject to God, and God alone would exist.

Revelation 21 is an entirely new and different creation. That is why we distinguish it as the NHNE. Isaiah 65 is not the NHNE. Isaiah 65 is current creation made new.

"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying."

Even in Zechariah 14 we see that action take place in part with Jerusalem.

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited."

This does not happen in Revelation 19, 20, nor 21. Isaiah 65 and Zechariah 14 start at the 6th Seal even before the 1st Trumpet in Revelation starts to sound. The destruction of the day of judgment is part of this creation process.

"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

God moves the entire earth around and no one will remember what the earth looks like today at that point. That is when Isaiah 65's creation happens. Not in Revelation 21. Amil also like to skip past all the pertinent detail and make Isaiah 65 the NHNE.

Revelation 21 does not even have to mention a creation, but we understand that John is not seeing this creation, nor the creation of the 6th Seal. John is seeing a totally different heaven and earth. Then John tries to describe that creation with stuff and terms from our current creation we still remember, but that does not mean he is talking about our current creation, simply changed around.

You keep conflating the Second Coming with the Day of the Lord and betray the fact you do not know the difference between them.

Then you deflect and question that it takes Jesus a thousand years to "get things done". Well if that is your interpretation of the Millennium why does it take Jesus a thousand years to get the NHNE correct? You have the New Jerusalem coming down a thousand years later. Does Satan's rebel army destroy the old Jerusalem after the first thousand years?

I pointed out the LOF is a separate creation from both this current creation and the NHNE. Evidently people cannot see 2 "universes" side by side. Not two worlds. Not two galaxies. Not even two solar systems. The Lord God exists outside of this creation. The LOF will also exist outside of this creation. The LOF is not part of this creation nor the next but an entire separate creation by itself.

That old serpent is referring to Satan in the Garden of Eden. Is there another old serpent other than the one who deceived Eve?

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

Satan is the only being who goes around deceiving God's creation that leads to rebellion against God.